Weymouth New Testament
For a time is coming when they will not tolerate wholesome instruction, but, wanting to have their ears tickled, they will find a multitude of teachers to satisfy their own fancies;
What do you guys make of this passage?
I'd love to hear comments, because I honestly have no idea, although a few ET'ers seem to use it against Universalists.
Thinking about this a little more, this is what i personally think on this matter, but id love your thoughts too.
Elsewhere Paul tells Timothy to pay no heed to 'old wives tales' etc...Yet 400 years later, people did exactly that...they started believing what the historians call...'Fairytales for the simple' (hell) and forsook Universalism, the most prevailing doctrine which Clement taught (and whom i believe was directly taught by a disciple of Christs).
But why does this 'hell' satisfy people's itching ears? Do you think it is because men are born into sin and are naturally....sinful? And because of that an idea like hell satisfys their itchy ears?
Is it all about money, control, power and fear?
Anyone?
Pride is probably at work here more than anything else.
A holier-than-thou spirit can't bear forgiveness so it perverted God's correction with damnation in an attempt to control the masses with man-made religion.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 18, 2010, 02:44:53 AM
Pride is probably at work here more than anything else.
A holier-than-thou spirit can't bear forgiveness so it perverted God's correction with damnation in an attempt to control the masses with man-made religion.
Great point.
:cloud9: Here's what I see on it.....
2 Timothy 4:3 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
When you look up itch in the Hebrew (Hebrew is the origin of what was translated into Greek), it means to scratch, leprosy and SUN, presumably from the idea of something that makes one red.
Sin is also said to be scarlet (red). Lust when it has conceived, bringeth forth death. The soul that sins shall die (receive death and not the life of the Spirit which comes as wisdom and revelation, His breath that quickens or makes alive).
There is a scripture that talks about "silly women/souls" being led away of their own lusts. So what I see is that the souls (silly women) of those who are not seeking Him with their WHOLE heart, are led into the corruption of the body.
Leprosy is as a type of death, it starts in red spots and inflames or makes the flesh red initially, and the flesh decays and falls off the body.
Sin is also something that brings forth death, it makes red our garments, ie. the garment (soul) even spotted from the flesh (ie. hate, lust, malice, ect.). He says He'll make our garments white as snow, removing spots and wrinkles. Blessings...
I agree with Cardinal.
If you think about it when people itch their ears it's kind of like saying
"whatever"
so I suppose with the doctrines of seek holyness and forsake sin, people are like "whatever"
Tell me about what's in it for me preacher, the money, the blessings, the pridemembership card but don't tell me to pray for others, forgive and walk away from my favourite sins.
amen.
Wiki says this, and I think it's a great explanation:
Itching ears is a term used in the Bible to describe a person who seeks out messages that please them and fit their lifestyle, as opposed to seeking a truth that might make them uncomfortable.
:cloud9: Yes, that's the end result :thumbsup:......if you think about it, what loves their ears scratched? A dog. Gentiles were called dogs, and now a gentile is one who does not have the circumcision of the heart. If we refuse to hear, then the flesh that should be circumcised by the washing of the Word and the fire, stays, producing a "gentile heart". Blessings...
...the Anti-Christ ...a secret rapture ...a sacrificial system.
"The restless desires of the sea; those waiting for a sign."
peacemaker
:cloud9: :thumbsup: :bigGrin:
Could that be why there are so many theology theorys, denominations, sects, doctrines, tv ministers, satallite ministers, theology authors, and religious debate sites?
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.
I only ask because maybe Im that dog, so to speak when I hear something on a show, or read something in a book, or visiting a church building.
(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1536/1536783fjmr684eut.jpg) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
The Spirit is not the author of confusion.
For the time will come when they will not endure
sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap
to themselves teachers after their own lusts; and
will turn away their ears from the truth for that
of fables. Perhaps, they're just sleeping?
peacemaker
:cloud9: :hijacked: Aww.....aren't they cute? The kids had French Angora rabbit when they were little, about that color but LONG hair and ears. Beautiful, but had a habit of kicking the cat across the room with those powerful hind feet.....the cat was not amused. :laughing7:
I've always thought "itching ears" and trying to find someone to "tickle them" had to do with people (sometimes me) not wanting to hear the truth. For instance, not wanting our current beliefs (traditions?) challenged or other truths presented for consideration.
Also, that we may sometimes want to hear things that make us feel OK about sin in our lives, reinforcing excuses we tell ourselves that "allows" us to continue with whatever sin - whether of commission or omission - that we want to continue in. Attempting to excuse our behavior and wanting someone to tell us "it's OK - God surely didn't mean....". :2c:
Jeremiah 5
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
Ezekiel 33
31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Jude
16 These men are murmurers, ever bemoaning their lot. Their lives are guided by their evil passions, and their mouths are full of big, boastful words, while they treat individual men with admiring reverence for the sake of the advantage they can gain.
17 But as for you, my dearly-loved friends, remember the words that before now were spoken by the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ--
18 how they declared to you, "In the last times there shall be scoffers, obeying only their own ungodly passions."
19 These are those who cause divisions. They are men of the world, wholly unspiritual.
James
6 But let him ask in faith and have no doubts; for he who has doubts is like the surge of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed into spray.
7 A person of that sort must not expect to receive anything from the Lord--
8 such a one is a man of two minds, undecided in every step he takes.
Luke 9
59 "Follow me," He said to another. "Master," the man replied, "allow me first to go and bury my father."
60 "Leave the dead," Jesus rejoined, "to bury their own dead; but you must go and announce far and wide the coming of the Kingdom of God."
61 "Master," said yet another, "I will follow you; but allow me first to go and say good-bye to my friends at home."
62 Jesus answered him, "No one who has put his hand to the plough, and then looks behind him, is fit for the Kingdom of God.
Quote from: jabcat on July 20, 2010, 06:21:46 AM
I've always thought "itching ears" and trying to find someone to "tickle them" had to do with people (sometimes me) not wanting to hear the truth. For instance, not wanting our current beliefs (traditions?) challenged or other truths presented for consideration.
Also, that we may sometimes want to hear things that make us feel OK about sin in our lives, reinforcing excuses we tell ourselves that "allows" us to continue with whatever sin - whether of commission or omission - that we want to continue in. Attempting to excuse our behavior and wanting someone to tell us "it's OK - God surely didn't mean....". :2c:
My :2c: agrees :thumbsup:
Quote from: LS on July 18, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
Wiki says this, and I think it's a great explanation:
Itching ears is a term used in the Bible to describe a person who seeks out messages that please them and fit their lifestyle, as opposed to seeking a truth that might make them uncomfortable.
Super post!
Quote from: Cardinal on July 18, 2010, 09:17:30 PM
:cloud9: Yes, that's the end result :thumbsup:......if you think about it, what loves their ears scratched? A dog. Gentiles were called dogs, and now a gentile is one who does not have the circumcision of the heart. If we refuse to hear, then the flesh that should be circumcised by the washing of the Word and the fire, stays, producing a "gentile heart". Blessings...
Thank you Card, great posts
Thanks everyone, really enjoyed reading these.
Quote from: marcstalkspot on July 18, 2010, 02:06:57 AM
What do you guys make of this passage?
Prosperity theology comes to mind.
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 20, 2010, 12:59:37 AM
Could that be why there are so many theology theorys, denominations, sects, doctrines, tv ministers, satallite ministers, theology authors, and religious debate sites?
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.
I only ask because maybe Im that dog, so to speak when I hear something on a show, or read something in a book, or visiting a church building.
I think if most of us are honest that there is a little of that in each of us. While I want to believe I only seek truth, I'm not so sure my spirit is ready for it in it's entirety. Are those who believe UR more drawn to teachers of UR? Are those who believe in ET more drawn to ET? Are we not drawn to ideas and teachers that support how we believe God works or how we want him to work?
I think the human nature itself loves to have it's ego stroked as often as it can get it. God's truth isn't about the egos of men. In God's eyes, the things that matter the least in our reasoning is the greatest in his. We raise men up who will hold our attention, keep us amused, and make us think our way is right. God resurrects those who those same men have cast aside.
I've found that when people are looking for a church . . .they are looking like one would look for a car. They're not looking for where God would send them, they are looking for something that allows them to remain in their comfort zone. Kinda hard to grow if you don't get stretched and challenged to expand your horizons of belief.
Quote from: marcstalkspot on July 18, 2010, 02:35:15 AM
Thinking about this a little more, this is what i personally think on this matter, but id love your thoughts too.
Elsewhere Paul tells Timothy to pay no heed to 'old wives tales' etc...Yet 400 years later, people did exactly that...they started believing what the historians call...'Fairytales for the simple' (hell) and forsook Universalism, the most prevailing doctrine which Clement taught (and whom i believe was directly taught by a disciple of Christs).
But why does this 'hell' satisfy people's itching ears? Do you think it is because men are born into sin and are naturally....sinful? And because of that an idea like hell satisfys their itchy ears?
Is it all about money, control, power and fear?
Anyone?
pretty much. How else would the churches have gotten so powerful. How else would they be able to sell garbage like "23 minutes in hell", if people knew better.
Most fear the unknown; death.
"Give me the coffin special, it's cheaper than the fire insurance plan."
Unfortunatlly I read the book "23 Minutes" and I found in humorus and very theatrical, stuff like that sells. Im told the Bible is the bestseller of books, but I must wonder how many buyers and owners actually read it. Just my :2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 11, 2010, 10:46:37 PM
Unfortunatlly I read the book "23 Minutes" and I found in humorus and very theatrical, stuff like that sells. Im told the Bible is the bestseller of books, but I must wonder how many buyers and owners actually read it. Just my :2c:
Im guessing very few.
Religious and Political bread & circus comes
to thought on this subject of itching ears.
Peace,
Fire Walker
"All politics are local."
And all religion is personal.
Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
The middle ages, also known as the dark ages, was the triumph of politics over man and religion over God.
Itching ears is simply deciding that something is true because you like how it sounds to you rather than engaging in daily serious thought and study about it.
Many can be devoted to God and help their neighbor and sacrifice themselves in obedience to God even if they theologically believe different things.
Itching ears has nothing to do with the doctrine you believe.
So basicly it's the opposite of:
2 Timothy 2:15 (YLT)
(2 Timothy 2:15) be diligent to present thyself approved to God--a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;
I would believe so.
A good way I think of "Itching of ears" is giving into fleshly lusts over sound Loving doctrines. And Hell is an exact sign of our most filthiests lusts. Pride, hate, revenge, selfishness, and cruelty. Im pretty sure everyone has had those thoughts at some point. And most of us can say that things dont work out from these most fowl of all lusts. This is pretty much how many Fire and Brimstone preachers really are. Most of the Hellfire preachers who appear satisfied about their spirituality seem to be in fact the most miserable. I can tell the difference from UR vs. ET preachers. Ex. Ray Smith can be a bit rough when he preaches, but I can tell he has a Good Spirituality, and is only being a little rough is because he wants others to be free from the prisons of this filthy Hell Doctrine. Other rough Hellfire preachers I can sense a spirit of pure anger. Other times I sense a spirit of smugness, arrogance, self righteousness and just plain misery in them. However I sense a true sense of hapiness, peace, and Love amongst those who do preach UR. And even when the more harsh aspects of the gospel are preached, which is what most UR preachers do, it reminds me of how a humanitarian activist gets his message out. He doesnt twinkletoe the nature of the problem, he gets right to the core. Yet he is not just a ranter spewing threats against those who need to reform.