The "dead" in Christ have ever-lasting life.
But do you think people have everlasting life before their redemption?
Quote from: marie glen on May 16, 2019, 04:59:07 PM
The "dead" in Christ have ever-lasting life.
But do you think people have everlasting life before their redemption?
I do!! it is the free gift , from the sacrifice of the lamb , some now , some later and some in the end , but all are given the gift of Life , just as they were given death and subjected to the vanity of this life not willingly .
the sleep of death has many meanings to me .... the day we eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the sleep of Adam
to me the awakening is the resurrection LIFE , a great Light no one can deny seeing our Lord Jesus Christ as HE IS .
1.
FORMAL
an act of waking from sleep.
2.
an act or moment of becoming suddenly aware of something.
"the war came as a rude awakening to the hardships of life"
adjective
1.
coming into existence or awareness.
anástasis, an-as'-tas-is; from G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):—raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
Ephesians 5:14 (AMPC)
14 Therefore He says, Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine (make day dawn) upon you and give you light.
its all about forgiveness , JESUS FORGAVE everyone on that cross in saying ," Forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing ". , I see this as " all mankind ONCE , for all time "
while we were yet sinners [ everyone in adam ] Christ died for us ........
I see so many on facebook as confessed Christians still with that hatred against one another ,speaking sweet things and bitter things still against one another , example ,'' wanting the muslims to suffer without mercy'' .. they only show mercy to their own kind of thinking and it is hard to be in any agreement with this kind of thinking ............ so sad
JAMES 3 ...10Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be!!!!!!!!!!!
:thumbsup:
Is mankind born with immortality?
I'm not asking if all will be saved. I know all will have everlasting life.. some now, some after this life.
Is a person born with everlasting life?
Or is it that you think Jesus died and all have eternal life now? ..But isn't that universalism, but not Christian Universalism?
...this is getting too frustrating..
:2c: The Lamb was slain before the founding of this world.Anyone thinking it comes any other way but through the Father and Jesus
are deceived. But the promise/free gift is neither by knowledge or works.the TOL was in the garden in the beginning and Jesus Christ
was a piece of ripe fruit of that 'seed bearing' tree. The truth may be twisted,men confused and in ignorance,followers of Buddha/confusicus
Mohammad,DaliLama,Pope,Judaism/catholic/Baptist,lutheran etc....but it is a free gift/not of works; from God and Jesus...and that will be
testified to...and all will know God in spirit and truth. Sure satan twists it to suit his own agenda..and men for their own,but no truth is
ever a lie. ALL THINGS ARE YOURS,BOTH DEATH AND LIFE...and you are God's.
Does a person who does not yet believe, have everlasting life?
:2c:I believe so.because it is not based on mens works in this temporal realm..and is free.Romans 5;15-18
through the obedience of the ONE man...many will be made righteous.[all men raised up in Christ's image]
v 21 so that just as sin reigned in death...so also GRACE must reign in righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Quote from: marie glen on May 17, 2019, 02:39:16 AM
Does a person who does not yet believe, have everlasting life?
I think that requires some thought and consideration of terms and "times"?
Because even though God
WILL be All in All, there are some scriptures to consider about current unbelievers; those who have not as yet been called, chosen and given faith to believe. Have not yet gone through whatever processing is required to bring to "every knee bow[ing], every tongue confess[ing] Jesus.."
That their time will come, but is not yet. And although God has provided and made the Way, it has not been applied/brought to fruition (?) yet for everyone...
unbelievers can't as yet be called children of God John 1:12
The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God's wrath remains on him. John 3
..that he who believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life..but him who does not believe is condemned already...John 3:16,18, John 3:36
So is it already possessed (I don't think so - I think that comes through being given faith to believe/accept Jesus the Sacrifice); or
provided for, yet to be accomplished in order?
*Maybe gets into that thing of God is "outside/beyond time", yet He deals with us
within time...
:Chinscratch: :)
Hey Jab, we can't tell a servant from an heir[son] til they come of age..one inherits,one doesn''t remain in the household .I see it as
as it's theirs..but it's just a matter of 'coming into it" Granted,some are so severely exhibiting the likeness /nature of the wicked one..
'marred' so severely by sin,possessed and controlled by demons horribly..but Jesus can cast them out with a word. It's horrible....and
makes me shudder. I confess,I do better loving such ones from a distance,but I do have pity for them. Those held too tightly by
satan/sin, Jesus shatters their clay vessel[body] with his iron rod and removes their spirit..it's a mercy really to deliver them from
such a state. :sigh:
I look at it as; Christ is the seed of eternal life freely given to all, and just as Christ is formed in us, so must the seed be formed into the Tree of Life in us, bearing the fruit of the Spirit
Yes , that is of a truth . '
Shelia , James and Jugg .
Because I have found it impossible to judge by appearances what is right in Gods sight . so much of this seems to be evil , but God is using this all for the good in the end .
God has placed many to experience evil in order to fulfill His plan to be vessels fitted for destruction .
I really had to consider this in my own heart thoroughly , there are the examples of Israel being cast off but not forever in order for all the rest of the nations to come to Christ .
Pharaoh had his heart hardened by God in order for the power of God to be made known though Moses .
Judas was chosen to betray Jesus Christ out of the 12 picked for Gods purpose .
the beast was set to hate the whore and burn her flesh with fire because God put it in their hearts to do so .
Cain was set to fail the test and slay his brother in order for Gods will to prove evil exist in the hearts of mankind and as an example of what not to do .
There are so many more examples also , these are just off the top of my head to consider , are they fulfilling Gods purpose in exposing evil , just as those being ruled over by the evil one as examples of our day also ?
its says also that Gods judgements are in the earth Isaiah 26 ;8-10 Psalm 105:7He is the LORD our God; His judgments carry throughout the earth.
It was when I read Peters witness / testimony as via the Holy Spirit that really got me to thinking differently
when He said , Pray it be that God wills it you be suffering for doing good rather than evil doing .
But it made me consider God shows us both sides of the law / coin , when we suffer under the law of good and evil ...
and that is what leads us to Christ by many teachers , lessons and experiences
I can now see many people set in our lives as signposts where judgements and testing and even temptations comes from . some are for our good and some are not and it is teaching us to discern what spirit is operating in ourselves as well as others .
a sign giving information such as the direction and distance to a nearby town, typically found at a crossroads.
We are to all meet Jesus in Galilee [ "g'lil hagoyim" wheel revolution"a turn around"] a town spiritul to me in meaning as well as Jerusalem[ "The City of Peace" or "Abode of Peace" ] from above our heavenly home
I believe when we obey the Lord in His direction He puts us all on a new path and gives a new heart to obey the laws of God . and it is the seed of Christ with the anointing of the Holy Spirit that becomes our teacher of truth , leading and guiding us to all truth that sets us free from the bondage of sin[evil] and its slavery .like Paul even shared in romans 7 when he wanted to good in the Spirit by His mind of Christ obedience to Gods desire to do good from the heart , that evil was still present in his corruptible body and weakened and fleshly state . he goes on than to praise GOD though Jesus Christ that he puts all his trust in HIM to deliver him from the body of death .
many will not come to the cross [roads ] that lead to life until death of the physical body of dust is seperated and but by faith we are to consider it already as dead by following Jesus Christ with the Father and Holy Spirit convicting us and chastening us and comforting us till we are formed and made complete . I do believe that even us that believe in the salvation of all will still be learning and experiencing the same educational teaching of the Holy Spirit after mortal death of the body .
Because the soul and spirit are still being completed /perfected in the glorified state in the body of Christ in the heavenly realm , why would I think this way ? , because Jesus says in the Spirit of revelation our glorified bodies are not our own .
and that we are still under the authoritative rulership of the HOLY SPIRIT by JESUS CHRIST /WORD OF GOD , until GOD be all in all .
I can say this over and over again , but there are difficulties in explaining what you believe in your heart already , but to convey this to others is hard to express .
I believe Jesus Christ is the 7th day and the rest we enter into , His glorified body and wait on the HOLY SPIRIT to complete us all, we are to sit on his throne , rev 3;21 where HE sits and the FATHER sits also ''same place '' it is noted
21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
it is about overcoming the world to the end . in a nutshell to me anyways .. it can only be done by the Holy Spirit working in us and becoming more spiritual in His own nature as JESUS IS Spiritual and the Father is Spiritual , not flesh and blood nor any other spirit but the HOLY ONE /LOVE doing the works in all of us .
Proving GOD IS TRUE by every Word / Jesus Christ is the Word of truth and the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH both witnesses and testimonies are true to GOD HIMSELF .GOD IS LOVE
I hope this is not confusing or frustrating , but it is my own faith in God and has been the greatest comfort to me to understand , I do not know everything , but know His plan is perfect and complete and without error , because the Truth in LOVE is what we are seeking to know and be and desire also for everyone . :HeartThrob:
Amen all! Thank you! :thumbsup: And I agree with it all.. heirs but they don't know it yet and aren't of age yet.. and can't be said to 'own' it yet, but it's held in trust..
It seems like a thin line between what ET views as Universalism - every one saved no matter what belief and who is believed in - Jesus or Buddha for instance.. And "Christian" Universalism which says all saved through union/reconciliation with God, through Jesus, "The (only) Way."
And the prodigal son - all of us! COULD, POTENTIALLY, never return and stay out there in the outer darkness subsisting on swine's food, until he "perished" as Jesus said it.. BUT of course none will, God being stronger, all capable, nothing impossible to Him.
ET believers of course think we're all the worldly sort of universalists.. For now anyway! :Peace2: :cloud9: (oops posting at the same time as Rose)
:thumbsup: Amen Rose! to all. It's hard to share, put into words, easy to misunderstand others, and hard to be understood, lol. Sometimes, for me anyway, conversing with others, or trying to, makes me put something into words.. This wondering has made me summarize the crux of what I think of as the overall message of God and "Christian" Universalism I think I perceive in the scriptures.. I blogged it, lol, and plan to link to it in discussion elsewhere, when it fits.. https://innermonastery.wordpress.com/2019/05/17/poof-hell-is-gone/ (for current ET/ETC believers & nonbelievers)
You'll never know anyone more generous and kind, than the Heavenly Father. In fact 1 Jn.4:8 says He is love! And then there's this, if He wasn't perfect, He too would fade away. Perfect makes no mistake(s). And can lose nothing. Why did He put innocent Adam and Eve in the little garden well after the first bound to occur rebel thought occurred? He knew (of course) what was in the adversary's heart! But see how all are taking this unavoidable journey (and lesson) all together, at once. Unavoidable if there's to be thinking and reasoning ability! You see, if God is life itself - and what else could be? And He "is perfect" (Mt.5:48) then anything in thought, word or deed that differs with Him, is imperfect, the opposite of life!
- So the remedy was built in from the beginning, "Christ crucified at the foundation of the world" (Rev.13:8). But as a loving father, He is letting choices, other than His, exist and run their course. Even though now there is suffering, there is death, there are wars.. All of which He, as life itself, lives through! Why put Himself through all that? So all will fully understand what is, and tends to life, and what is, and tends to death. Good from evil! How are you going to have an enduring paradise (for all) if there is any rational creature that does not fully understand that? Understand what? That He is Life. And no one can have life apart from Him - and, His perfection. Perfection is life. Missing the mark (translated sin) is death. All need to know it can never work! ..Go not that way!
- Jesus tells us, via the parables, that humanity is the Father's garden. It's a crazy garden! The weeds far outnumber the wheat! But in the 'end' even the weeds will become wheat! Because Jesus said He will draw all to Him, Jn.12:32.
- But that doesn't mean this circus (travesty?) won't play out to the conclusion. After all, that's the proof! The conclusion of this lesson of good and evil. We're told all about that conclusion. The weeds will gear up - the nations will "make war" (Rev.12:17 w/ Mt.23:39; Rev.16:14,15,16) against Jerusalem (Israel). The weeds will gather to Armageddon. Which will mushroom into a lake (flood) of fire, Jesus returns, gathering all believers of all time to Himself, to meet Him as He is arriving, and on that day His feet will stand upon Mount of Olives which will split in two via a great earthquake (Zechariah 14:4). And thus the prophesied Millennium of Jesus begins. The "rest of the dead come not back to life until after the thousand years" (Rev.20:6).
- His first advent, as we know, fulfilled the ancient Spring Holy Days. He was the Passover Lamb dying the death/annihilation/lack of life all were under (1 Jn.2:2) a strong enough image to pierce every self tormenting conscience! He is the Unleavened Bread of Life, and the Firstfruits of God. The three Spring Holy Days as prophecy. Along with Pentecost seven weeks later, when He baptized the first believers with flames of fire. God is that fire!
- Doesn't that mean His long second advent - the three main peaks of - will fulfill the three Fall Holy Days of - Trumpets (of Rev. and His return), and 10 days later (1000 years later) Day of Atonement, and 5 days later (500 years later) Tabernacles! Notice how Rev.21, verses 1 and 3, say "..a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.. the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell (tabernacle) with them.."
- "The bear will graze with the cow and the lion will eat straw like the ox." (Isaiah 11:7)
The pattern plays out like this, the Lord's return and the millennium of a thousand years; then "the judgment" of 500 years. Which is the only time Ps.22:27 can be fulfilled. Which says "all the ends of Earth will remember/take thought, and turn to the Lord, and all families of the nations will worship/rejoice before Him!" All names found "in the book of life" ..Like ancient collective Day of Atonement, anyone "not afflicting their soul on that day will be cast out from among the people! But seriously, after rising from the grave and living through the judgment (great day of review) who's not going to "believe"?
- Isaiah 45:21-24 says - "..Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I the Lord? There is no other God but me. A just God. And a Saviour.. Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth.. I have sworn, by my own name! I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to me. The people will declare, `The Lord is the source of all my righteousness and strength.` And all who were angry with him will come to him.." The 'end'.
- "With God nothing is impossible!" (Lk.1:27) He is love, and "love never fails!" 1 Cor.13:8 & 15:22-28.
I love what you shared and read it sister Marie :HeartThrob:
I see what you shared as the inward workings of good and evil as an outward manifestation of what rules the heart of mankind
We do go in and out of the spirit and the lifting up of the LORD in praise and prayers and in our private moments[on earth as it is in heaven ] as well as our fellowship with one another and where any are gathered together in His name he is faithful to be among us and BE in our presence .
For me , this is why it is important not to call upon the name of the LORD in vain ,, he returns to us by our sincere seeking His face and not the petty things and worldly gains of this life .
I believe wholeheartedly that the reason why we are experiencing the good and evil is because GODS WORD IS TRUE
We are still in adam/mankind and the day we eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil / produced the fruit and law we all eat of first , we surly die to GOD experiencing the god of this world/satan adversary Corinthians 4:4
1 Cor 8 4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords),
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist....
and it is turning back to the true and living God , by and though Jesus Christ , the way made by God Himself to be reconciled back to Himself once again
I have really been blessed as of late by all the wonderful things God is doing in our lives .
the fear has ceased and the LOVE has grown and thank God for His mercy on us all
I do think it is very , very important for the UR believers to keep praying for the mercy of GOD on all flesh and souls and pray they also get into the right spirit , HIS HOLY ONE Spirit where all will be under and into one day again [all in all ] ...
and save them all from such needless suffering , salvation to me means not to suffer any longer for the evil that fruit and tree /knowledge produces , good also but evil is still present ] , but the tree of Life where the Holy fruits heal us and make us right with our HOLY FATHER again . Whole and new and complete in Him . to me Jesus is the Word / and the Father is the SPIRIT and One cannot be without the other , GODS WORD will not return to Him void but will accomplish everything done /works by HIS own Holy Spirit and our labouring in vain will cease by more and more of Himself [faith in Him works ] as our exceedingly great reward .....
:HeartThrob:
This thread was timely. It never ceases to amaze me how He works through others to benefit another, for ALL that He does is for our benefit.
Thank you MG for starting this thread and to the others who have made comments because they lead to things said that have had an impact in me.
In other words, MG planted, others watered and God caused the growth in me. Thank you all.
One more plant growing in His garden in me of which each had their part.
Blessings
Quote from: jugghead on May 19, 2019, 01:53:37 PM
This thread was timely. It never ceases to amaze me how He works through others to benefit another, for ALL that He does is for our benefit.
Thank you MG for starting this thread and to the others who have made comments because they lead to things said that have had an impact in me.
In other words, MG planted, others watered and God caused the growth in me. Thank you all.
One more plant growing in His garden in me of which each had their part.
Blessings
Amen Jugg ,
He is an excellent FATHER and loves His born again of the Spirit children unconditionally , love keeps no record of wrong !
it is the awaking up out of the sleep in Adam /death and to rise up and FACE THE DAY JESUS and SEE HIM as He IS :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
I love being in the Spirit and want it all the time now ... cannot hardly wait !!!!!!!!!!!!