Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
I hear a lot of Christian people talk about how when things go bad or wrong in their lives that the devil is attacking them and 'challenging' their faith. Peter talks about having to resist the devil...
1Peter 5:8Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
And James...
James 4:7Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
I realize that we're all human and crappy things happen to everyone, whether they're Christian or not. But with so much evil going on, how do we know that the devil no longer has power in this world? Is there any scripture that backs it up?
Hi Synd ,
to me ,it all depends on who the devil/satan is :msealed: adversary ..
the liar and murderer from the begining ...
who /what do you think satan / devil is ?
thanks rose :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AMI realize that we're all human and crappy things happen to everyone, whether they're Christian or not. But with so much evil going on, how do we know that the devil no longer has power in this world? Is there any scripture that backs it up?
The devil still rules this world.
Revelation 12:9-10 and the great dragon was cast forth -- the old serpent, who is called 'Devil,' and 'the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world -- he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him. 10 And I heard a great voice saying in the heaven, 'Now did come the salvation, and the power, and the reign, of our God, and the authorit
In Revelation satan is still doing his things.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Matthew 4:8-9 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
=> Satan want to 'give away'' the kingdoms he owns.
Just my :2c:
Quote from: rosered on November 03, 2009, 02:18:27 AM
who /what do you think satan / devil is ?
I have always thought that the devil is a being that is 100% against everything Jesus stands for; Peace, love, joy, fruitfulness, etc. (The character portrayed in scripture who is opposed to the will of God as the serpent/Satan/the Devil/ the Dragon)
I was always told that Jesus' death defeated the devil but we still had to watch out for evil people and evil temptations from him, and that the devil could still 'get me'. But something just never felt right to me about Jesus defeating him then... it's contradictory for me. How can the devil be defeated but still have the power to do things? It makes me think that Jesus didn't fully complete His work when He died.
QuoteHow can the devil be defeated but still have the power to do things?
:thumbsup:
The devil never needed to be defeated because God always had him on a leech.
Job 2:6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
At the time of Job Jesus wasn't born yet (on earth). And even at that time satan asks permission to test Job.
Doesn't sound like God needed Jesus to defeat satan because He couldn't deal with him Himself.
who /what do you think satan / devil is ?
a] Red guy with a pitchfork?
b] Evil spirit?
c] An angel kicked out of heaven?
d] Me?
e] You?
f] All/most of humanity?
g] Something else?
(http://blogs.zdnet.com/images/bsd%20linux%20devil.JPG)
Hi Synd ,
I agree with your statment satan is against every good thing that Jesus/ Truth stands for ...
the only power satan has is over death and the fear of it according to scriptures too
I find it amazing that Jesus / Truth went around healing the sick /blind unclean spirits in folks with a good healthy dose of truth Himself :thumbsup: the Word made flesh ...
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus is the victory over the power of death /devil as its wisdom
Hsa 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
big UR Verse here to me !! and Jesus Christ is the name above all names :HeartThrob: :icon_flower: :thumbsup: and is my joy
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
I just wanted you to know I have reseached this stuff and all the many religions about satan/ devil and am surprised at what is really out there :mshock:
I hope to share more later
for now i have to go
thanks and many blesssings in Jesus name :HeartThrob:
rose
ok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
Ha ha ! Hey Ya Bro T ! good one made my day ha ha ! i would say
g] Something else? would be my answer bro .......
that confusing verse Jesus uses , well , the word
TILL Was the big clue for me
two other places /accounts written
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
what is tasting death mean?
here is two places that speaks the same things
in the old and in the new testaments , here is the answer to me of that verse what Jesus meant , to swallow up death/ the lie in Life / Truth
Isa 11:4But
with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and
reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall
smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
2Th 2:8 And then shall
that Wicked be revealed, whom
the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with
all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. If you have a love for the truth....... the Truth /Jesus will set you free
they are synonymous with one another Truth / Jesus Christ this name is Above '' all things ''
ever look up ''all things '' what a study that is ! pretty awesome how many times its mentioned ...... here is one example . two three good ones here
1Cr 15:28 And when
all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put
all things under him,
that God may be all in all.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that
all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Jhn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given
all things into his hand.
all things .........Lexicon Results Strong's G3956 - pas πᾶς
Transliteration
pas
Pronunciation
pä's (Key)
Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
including all the forms of declension
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types
:HeartThrob: lots to consider when ''all things '' means everything eh ? :HeartThrob:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
I don't understand what this verse has to do with the devil having power or lack thereof. This verse to me says that there were people that Jesus was talking to that were still going to be alive when the Kingdom of God came to earth.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
I don't understand what this verse has to do with the devil having power or lack thereof. This verse to me says that there were people that Jesus was talking to that were still going to be alive when the Kingdom of God came to earth.
I have the same question and thought as you Syndicated. RoseY posted the verse. I just quoted it from her post. She explained it but....well I still don't understand. Another reread...
Little note/"warning" threads quite often go totally off-topic. All with the best intentions buts still off-topic. It can be a bit frustrating when someone really wants a answer to his/her question.
Hi Rosey :icon_flower:
enjoyed ya post :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 08:35:33 PM
who /what do you think satan / devil is ?
a] Red guy with a pitchfork?
b] Evil spirit?
c] An angel kicked out of heaven?
d] Me?
e] You?
f] All/most of humanity?
g] Something else?
I would be most inclined to say that he is an evil spirit, however the bible talks about him being a serpent or a dragon, so that would make him a beast that was created on the fourth day. If God is the creator of ALL things, then that means that He created the devil too, right? THEN He looked at everything He made and said that it was good!
Gen 1:31God saw
all that He had made, and behold,
it was very good.
So whatever he is, God intended for him to be created, and He created him to be an evil being.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
I don't understand what this verse has to do with the devil having power or lack thereof. This verse to me says that there were people that Jesus was talking to that were still going to be alive when the Kingdom of God came to earth.
Hi Synd ,
your right that is true , they would still be living and breathing human beings that would witness his comming
and I will say again , satans power over death was defeated by the Cross of Jesus Christ ..
I dont think when you really believe /obey Jesus /as the Truth than the lies are destroyed
QuoteI realize that we're all human and crappy things happen to everyone, whether they're Christian or not. But with so much evil going on, how do we know that the devil no longer has power in this world? Is there any scripture that backs it up?
Jesus kingdom is not of this world so why would you think satan has no power in this world ?
Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered,
My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence./here .............
satan still is roaming the earth /flesh
there is a couple of things I have thought about , I am not convinced of anything yet , but
God gave Adam /edom dominion over the earth has that changed ?
Adam /from edom means Adam means man mankind from the meaning edom 119 1) to be red, red
a) (Qal) ruddy (of Nazarites)
b) (Pual)
1) to be rubbed red
2) dyed red
3) reddened
c) (Hiphil)
1) to cause to show red
2) to glare
3) to emit (show) redness
d) (Hithpael)
1) to redden
2) to grow red
3) to look red
who is the red dragon ?
the serpent of old ?
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
how could satan tempt Jesus with the kingdoms of this world if he could not offer it , was this dominion given of God to Adam in the begining of old ?
is the serpent/ dragon the carnal mind ?
I have thought of every angle on this
and no solid answer ..
many things I cannot explain but share in your wonder
I hope we can continue to discuss this further though
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Taffy on November 03, 2009, 11:22:44 PM
Hi Rosey :icon_flower:
enjoyed ya post :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:
bless you bro G!!! :icon_flower: Good to see you up and about .. missing you alot these days bro . hope all is well
:HeartThrob: rose
QuoteJesus kingdom is not of this world so why would you think satan has no power in this world ?
Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence./here
I agree that Jesus said that the kingdom of God is not of this world, but as far as I understand it, Jesus conquered the devil when he died and took over his dominion.
John 16: 33"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage;
I have overcome the world."
Quotesatan still is roaming the earth /flesh
John 12:31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world
will be cast out."
Quotewho is the red dragon ?
Where did this come from?? And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
QuoteI agree that Jesus said that the kingdom of God is not of this world, but as far as I understand it, Jesus conquered the devil when he died and took over his dominion.
If you compare the percentage of evil with the percentage of good in this world. Did Jesus win?
If you follow maninstream ET teachings 95% will goto hell. Did Jesus win?
QuoteAnd the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 11:53:26 PM
QuoteJesus kingdom is not of this world so why would you think satan has no power in this world ?
Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence./here
I agree that Jesus said that the kingdom of God is not of this world, but as far as I understand it, Jesus conquered the devil when he died and took over his dominion.
John 16: 33"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
Quotesatan still is roaming the earth /flesh
John 12:31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out."
Quotewho is the red dragon ?
Where did this come from?? And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Hi Synd ,
I do believe the prince of this world
is being judged ..
when Jesus said this I do believe the part in Rev was fulfilled being cast down into the earth
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them,
I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over
all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Sorry you feel that way Synd , when do you think Jesus saw satan fall like lighting from heaven ?
for I was just trying to show that Red it is part of adams make up edom / adam
I tend to think it does have something to do with the old red dragon /serpent
and cannot prove anything :dontknow:
blessings sis :HeartThrob:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 04, 2009, 12:07:04 AM
QuoteI agree that Jesus said that the kingdom of God is not of this world, but as far as I understand it, Jesus conquered the devil when he died and took over his dominion.
If you compare the percentage of evil with the percentage of good in this world. Did Jesus win?
If you follow maninstream ET teachings 95% will goto hell. Did Jesus win?
QuoteAnd the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
wow!! you were posting as I posted bro ! ya beat me to it though ... :icon_flower:
Adam means red earth, Yes, thats true and God did give Adam dominion over all the earth , Till Jesus recieved it all dominion heaven , eath and below :thumbsup: good point bro T !
Jhn 3:31
He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.
:HeartThrob:
QuoteThe devil never needed to be defeated because God always had him on a leech.
If he was on a leash, then he would do only what God wanted, right. So all things evil in the world is God choice. Death being the greatest of all God's works. :Chinscratch:
1 John 3:8 "the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."
Truth is, Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, especially death.
Question, did Jesus suceed or not? Of course He suceeded. The works of the Devil have been destroyed.
How? Well Revelation says staright forward, and you see in Job that the Devil was the ACCUSER of the Bretheren. He came before God to accuse them.... of what? The same thing the devil did with Jesus, the devil accused according to the Law of Moses. Now that the Law has been fulfilled and no longer has power or authority the Devil can no longer bring forth a charge before God. The devil was left with no ability to perform his works.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
The devil does indeed have power. The way I view the death of Christ will factor into my response to this very fair and great question. I USED to think of Christ's death and resurrection as a past event. It was, don't get me wrong. It literally happened 2000 years ago.
However, in Romans 6 it speaks about being buried by baptism into that death. The baptism is the Spirit.
So indeed, the silencing of the devil is accomplished through Christ's death, yet I believe that we are to be conjoined to that death and in that way we are continually walking in that death and resurrection of our old self which used to listen to that devil's voice.
Does that make sense?
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
WW, Paul said in the book of Romans that: the kingdom is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."
Romans 14:17
So if Jesus says that there are some standing there that there are some that will see the Kingdom come with power, what is he talking about in regards to Romans 14:17? Were there some folks standing there that received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost?
I don't think what Jesus means by "see" is to see with physical eyes. Anyone who has these three things: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit has seen Christ come in power in his
Kingdom.
Now it doesn't mean that we have recieved the promise entirely, only that we have it as a deposit until the "redemption of the purchased possession." But Paul's definition pretty much resolved that one-time problematic scripture for me.
Quote from: Seth on November 04, 2009, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
The devil does indeed have power. The way I view the death of Christ will factor into my response to this very fair and great question. I USED to think of Christ's death and resurrection as a past event. It was, don't get me wrong. It literally happened 2000 years ago.
However, in Romans 6 it speaks about being buried by baptism into that death. The baptism is the Spirit.
So indeed, the silencing of the devil is accomplished through Christ's death, yet I believe that we are to be conjoined to that death and in that way we are continually walking in that death and resurrection of our old self which used to listen to that devil's voice.
Does that make sense?
does to me :thumbsup: in adam all die ! in Christ all shall be made alive :icon_flower:
1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward
they that are Christ's at his coming. :HeartThrob:
QuoteSorry you feel that way Synd , when do you think Jesus saw satan fall like lighting from heaven ?
Luke 10:17 "The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
18And He said to them, "I
was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
19"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
20"Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
In context you can clearly see that Jesus was commenting on the disciples work, that the spirits were subject to them. He was illistrating that by the demons being expelled that as a whole the power of the Devil was being cast out of Jerusalem.
Quotefor I was just trying to show that Red it is part of adams make up edom / adam
I tend to think it does have something to do with the old red dragon /serpent
The red dragon of Revelation 12 is interestingly the only mention of a RED dragon in the bible however there are multiple mentions of dragons, to try to link a red dragon with red earth is completely mystical and without biblical responsibility.
The truth is, Revelation 12 is talking about the birth of Jesus and how the jews were under control of the Pharisees who kill Jesus, but don't fear church, just as God gave wings to the children of Isreal in egypt God will give the first century church wings to escape the pharisees/ rome (false prophet/beast) also.
Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 01:39:23 AM
QuoteSorry you feel that way Synd , when do you think Jesus saw satan fall like lighting from heaven ?
Luke 10:17 "The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
18And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
19"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
20"Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
In context you can clearly see that Jesus was commenting on the disciples work, that the spirits were subject to them. He was illistrating that by the demons being expelled that as a whole the power of the Devil was being cast out of Jerusalem.
Quotefor I was just trying to show that Red it is part of adams make up edom / adam
I tend to think it does have something to do with the old red dragon /serpent
The red dragon of Revelation 12 is interestingly the only mention of a RED dragon in the bible however there are multiple mentions of dragons, to try to link a red dragon with red earth is completely mystical and without biblical responsibility.
The truth is, Revelation 12 is talking about the birth of Jesus and how the jews were under control of the Pharisees who kill Jesus, but don't fear church, just as God gave wings to the children of Isreal in egypt God will give the first century church wings to escape the pharisees/ rome (false prophet/beast) also.
Thank you Dallas for your answer :thumbsup:
I agree the Truth /Life does have power over death / the lie murderers
they have reason to rejoice that their names are written in heaven more so than that power over satan / adversaries /death
this work was actually the Holy Spirit working in them to Gods glory :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on November 04, 2009, 01:30:12 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
WW, Paul said in the book of Romans that: the kingdom is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."
Romans 14:17
So if Jesus says that there are some standing there that there are some that will see the Kingdom come with power, what is he talking about in regards to Romans 14:17? Were there some folks standing there that received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost?
I don't think what Jesus means by "see" is to see with physical eyes. Anyone who has these three things: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit has seen Christ come in power in his Kingdom.
Now it doesn't mean that we have recieved the promise entirely, only that we have it as a deposit until the "redemption of the purchased possession." But Paul's definition pretty much resolved that one-time problematic scripture for me.
it has been resolved for me too,
I have posted the same message bro Seth
about the peace , joy and holy Spirit being
in the Spirit and seeing the power of God though Christ
love your clarity :thumbsup:
I also agree with the eyes of understanding being spiritual eyes to SEE JESUS :icon_flower:Eph 1:18 The
eyes of your understanding being enlightened
; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, :HeartThrob:
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on November 04, 2009, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
The devil does indeed have power. The way I view the death of Christ will factor into my response to this very fair and great question. I USED to think of Christ's death and resurrection as a past event. It was, don't get me wrong. It literally happened 2000 years ago.
However, in Romans 6 it speaks about being buried by baptism into that death. The baptism is the Spirit.
So indeed, the silencing of the devil is accomplished through Christ's death, yet I believe that we are to be conjoined to that death and in that way we are continually walking in that death and resurrection of our old self which used to listen to that devil's voice.
Does that make sense?
The "devil" has no power cept we give.
We were, are and are continually saved by the Alpha and Omega.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 04, 2009, 01:53:55 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 04, 2009, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
The devil does indeed have power. The way I view the death of Christ will factor into my response to this very fair and great question. I USED to think of Christ's death and resurrection as a past event. It was, don't get me wrong. It literally happened 2000 years ago.
However, in Romans 6 it speaks about being buried by baptism into that death. The baptism is the Spirit.
So indeed, the silencing of the devil is accomplished through Christ's death, yet I believe that we are to be conjoined to that death and in that way we are continually walking in that death and resurrection of our old self which used to listen to that devil's voice.
Does that make sense?
The "devil" has no power cept we give.
We were, are and are continually saved by the Alpha and Omega.
I agree Beloved ! discerning in what voice we hear !
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
:HeartThrob:
QuoteQuote
And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Adam does not mean red earth.... the word adam comes from the hebrew for mankind
Quotethere is a couple of things I have thought about , I am not convinced of anything yet , but
God gave Adam /edom dominion over the earth has that changed ?
Adam /from edom means Adam means man mankind from the meaning edom
This is exactally why christianity has the problems it has.
People taking liberty to create non-biblical ideas from biblical words.
Sitting on my couch /from crouch wich means comfort from the meaning crouching in comfort I write these words.
It's poison to translate, and regurgitate it to others. Especially when it's being presented as though it has some merit of truth when all you did was sit back with an idea. Sorry but that's not study. If it is an idea you should present it as such, because lets face it, you and i both know that Adam and Edom are two diferent things and it's you trying to somehow connect them in order to establish some display of wisdom.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 04, 2009, 01:53:55 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 04, 2009, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
The devil does indeed have power. The way I view the death of Christ will factor into my response to this very fair and great question. I USED to think of Christ's death and resurrection as a past event. It was, don't get me wrong. It literally happened 2000 years ago.
However, in Romans 6 it speaks about being buried by baptism into that death. The baptism is the Spirit.
So indeed, the silencing of the devil is accomplished through Christ's death, yet I believe that we are to be conjoined to that death and in that way we are continually walking in that death and resurrection of our old self which used to listen to that devil's voice.
Does that make sense?
The "devil" has no power cept we give.
We were, are and are continually saved by the Alpha and Omega.
My point exactly. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
QuoteQuote
And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Adam does not mean red earth.... the word adam comes from the hebrew for mankind
Sounds like you already made up your mind.
For those looking for a little more truth a few links to back up my claim. It's for the reader to decide the Jewis scholars are wrong about the many meaning of the word Adam was translated from.
Quote5) The red earth
The earth in Santa Fe is red, and Malka relates to this from a Jewish perspective. "You know that Adam means earth and it also means the color red. The earth here is the earth of Genesis. The pottery we make in Santa Fe is from animated earth. The adobe houses and the pots are made from the earth and so are we."
http://www.sdjewishjournal.com/stories/july03_1.html
Quote'The Eternal God formed the human being out of the dust of the ground' (2:7). The English is clear – but the Hebrew is clearer: 'The Eternal God formed ha-adam – the human being – out of the dust of ha-adamah – the ground'. We could say that the human-being is an earthling – if that word did not carry with it confusing sci-fi connotations (2). What does it tell us about what it is to be human: that we are one with the ground? Interestingly, the words adam and adamah are both related to the Hebrew word for 'blood', dam: the red earth;
http://www.liberaljudaism.org/RH_am_ETS_2009.htm
QuoteExamples were: Adam, meaning "formed of red earth,"
http://www.jewishscouting.org/awards/counselorsguidetothemaccabeeawardjewishnames.asp
QuoteAdam means "(red) earth."
'Adama' is earth, 'adom' is red and Adam literally means man. They're all spelled the same way in Hebrew but have different pronunciations.
(Ad´am) [Earthling Man; Mankind; Humankind; from a root meaning "red"].
QuoteA very popular male first name Adam is pronounced AD-um. It is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "earth." In Hebrew, it is a generic term for "man." In the Bible, in the Genesis account, he was the first man created from the red earth of Eden. He was the husband of Eve.
QuoteADAM (Greek: Ἀδάμ, Hebrew: אָדָם): In use by the English.
Greek form of Hebrew Adam, meaning "the red earth."
Hebrew name meaning "earth" or "red." In the bible, this is the name of the first man created by God, the husband of Eve.
God decides to make man [adam 120] in his image and likeness.
n 1:26 And God430 said,559 Let us make6213 man120 in our image,6754 after our likeness:1823 and let them have dominion7287
"man"
H120
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
In Genesis 1, God makes [the man] eth adam in his image. No mention of likeness here.
Gen 1:27 So God430 created1254 (853) man120 in his own image,6754 in the image6754 of God430 created1254 he him; male2145 and female5347 created1254 he them.
"the" [man]
H853
את
'êth
ayth
Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely): - (As such unrepresented in English.)
In Genesis 2, God puts eth adam [the man] into the garden he has made for him. Still H120.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD3068 God430 planted5193 a garden1588 eastward4480, 6924 in Eden;5731 and there8033 he put7760 (853) the man120 whom834 he had formed.3335
H120
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
It is when God gives the man the commandment about the tree that Adam is given his name, al adam 120 [man of the Most High God?]
Gen 2:16 And the LORD3068 God430 commanded6680, 5921 the man,120 saying,559 Of every4480, 3605 tree6086 of the garden1588 thou mayest freely eat:398, 398
Gen 2:17 But of the tree4480, 6086 of the knowledge1847 of good2896 and evil,7451 thou shalt not3808 eat398 of4480 it: for3588 in the day3117 that thou eatest398 thereof4480 thou shalt surely die.4191, 4191
"al" [adam]
H5921
על
‛al
al
Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.
H5920
על
‛al
al
From H5927; properly the top; specifically the Highest (that is, God); also (adverbially) aloft, to Jehovah: - above, high, most High.
Now God allows Adam to name all the animals, and here al adam is given the proper name, Adam 121
Gen 2:19 And out of4480 the ground127 the LORD3068 God430 formed3335 every3605 beast2416 of the field,7704 and every3605 fowl5775 of the air;8064 and brought935 them unto413 Adam121 to see7200 what4100 he would call7121 them: and whatsoever3605, 834 Adam121 called7121 every living2416 creature,5315 that1931 was the name8034 thereof.
H121
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
The same as H120; Adam, the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine: - Adam.
When God drives adam out of the garden, he is once again eth adam [the man]
Gen 3:24 So he drove out1644 (853) the man;120 and he placed7931 at the east4480, 6924 of the garden1588 of Eden5731 (853) Cherubims,3742 and a flaming3858 sword2719 which turned every way,2015 to keep8104 (853) the way1870 of the tree6086 of life.2416
Has the devil really been silenced?
No, she talks all day long, unfortunately! :laughing7:
Quote from: Dallas on November 04, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
QuoteQuote
And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Adam does not mean red earth.... the word adam comes from the hebrew for mankind
Quotethere is a couple of things I have thought about , I am not convinced of anything yet , but
God gave Adam /edom dominion over the earth has that changed ?
Adam /from edom means Adam means man mankind from the meaning edom
This is exactally why christianity has the problems it has.
People taking liberty to create non-biblical ideas from biblical words.
Sitting on my couch /from crouch wich means comfort from the meaning crouching in comfort I write these words.
It's poison to translate, and regurgitate it to others. Especially when it's being presented as though it has some merit of truth when all you did was sit back with an idea. Sorry but that's not study. If it is an idea you should present it as such, because lets face it, you and i both know that Adam and Edom are two diferent things and it's you trying to somehow connect them in order to establish some display of wisdom.
LOL , Dallas , you need not get so huffy over searching these things out ??
I would rather have charity in my heart than to know it all brother , the motive of the heart is everything Dallas
may you find some peace ......
1Cr 13:2 And
though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and
have not charity, I am nothing.
The Way of Love
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of
these is love.
love you just the same and can ''honestly say that with a clean conscience :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 04, 2009, 11:34:59 PM
Has the devil really been silenced?
No, she talks all day long, unfortunately! :laughing7:
HAHA!!! My ex-mother-in-law comes to mind with this comment! :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:
QuoteQuote from: Dallas on Today at 03:28:29 PM
Quote
Quote
And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Adam does not mean red earth.... the word adam comes from the hebrew for mankind
Sounds like you already made up your mind.
Every online resource I have looked at tells me that 'Adam' means 'First man'.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/adam
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/adam
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Adam
http://dictionary.die.net/adam
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Adam
I have found nothing that says Adam means Red Earth.
Regardless the definition of Adam has nothing to do with the question I have asked. The color Red has nothing to do with silencing the devil, unless it's with a red bandana to gag him with.
I understand that threads go off topic, this isn't the first forum I have been a part of. But to go on about a color and a definition that has nothing to do with the topic is redundant.
QuoteIt's poison to translate, and regurgitate it to others. Especially when it's being presented as though it has some merit of truth when all you did was sit back with an idea.
:thumbsup:
I completely agree with this statement.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 05, 2009, 02:12:19 AM
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 04, 2009, 11:34:59 PM
Has the devil really been silenced?
No, she talks all day long, unfortunately! :laughing7:
HAHA!!! My ex-mother-in-law comes to mind with this comment! :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:
QuoteQuote from: Dallas on Today at 03:28:29 PM
Quote
Quote
And the list of 'Redness' really had nothing to do with anything.
Adam means red earth...
Adam does not mean red earth.... the word adam comes from the hebrew for mankind
Sounds like you already made up your mind.
Every online resource I have looked at tells me that 'Adam' means 'First man'.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/adam
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/adam
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Adam
http://dictionary.die.net/adam
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Adam
I have found nothing that says Adam means Red Earth.
Regardless the definition of Adam has nothing to do with the question I have asked. The color Red has nothing to do with silencing the devil, unless it's with a red bandana to gag him with.
I understand that threads go off topic, this isn't the first forum I have been a part of. But to go on about a color and a definition that has nothing to do with the topic is redundant.
QuoteIt's poison to translate, and regurgitate it to others. Especially when it's being presented as though it has some merit of truth when all you did was sit back with an idea.
:thumbsup:
I completely agree with this statement.
I am so sorry syndicated , for posting at all in your thread and confusing the issues or you .
I will show you though where I got the
red in Adam from and we know that Adam was formed from the ground/ earth
that is easy enough to grasp .
it is a root word attached to the meaning of Adam ''first man'' aka man kind in the Hebrew
and you are right what does the devil being silenced have to do with Adam ha ha ha !
some believe Adams carnal mind is the devil /adversary.
to be cardinally minded is death . in Adam all die in Christ shall be made alive .
that was the whole point in posting to you in the first place ..
in strongs in the Blueletter bible it is the root word edom that Adam is derrived from http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H120&t=KJV (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H120&t=KJV) in the root word (Etymology) box we have Strong's H119 - 'adam אדם
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H119&t=KJV (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H119&t=KJV)
please forgive me for NOT being clear with your questions
as for the devil being silenced , i believe he still roams the earth seeking to devour us all
but praise God he has an end .
:HeartThrob: rose
Quote from: Syndicated on November 05, 2009, 02:12:19 AM
Every online resource I have looked at tells me that 'Adam' means 'First man'.
That's not true. I gave you a list in reply #29
Syndycated I think it's wise to read the links that are supposed to prove me wrong.
Below some quoutes from the links you posted:
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/adam => He was formed out of the dust of the earth (
and hence his name)
http://dictionary.die.net/adam => Source: Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)
Adam, earthy; red
Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
Adam
red, a Babylonian word, the generic name for man, having the
same meaning in the Hebrew and the Assyrian languages.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Adam
Adam
Biblical name of the first man, from Heb. adam "man," lit. "(the one formed from the) ground" (Heb. adamah "ground"); cf. L. homo "man," humanus "human," humus "earth, ground, soil."
That are just 'western' dictionaries. If you read articles from Jewish scholars (I quoted a few of many) you will see they have the same opion. And take it even further.)
Adam, man, red soil; ground earth or clay.
And the property of light by which the color (red) of an object is classified in reference to the spectrum are in accordance with the magnitudes of a common physical property; a clear, smooth, rosy complexion, full of beauty and splendor. Now, compare that luminance (of man) with the brightness of pure light?
"Man never really thinks from beginning to end."
Many live within the confines of their own mind, or that of others.
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.
peacemaker
Quote
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.
peacemaker
Beautiful! I think I'm going to change this to my TM signature if you don't mind.
Quote from: SyndicatedBut with so much evil going on, how do we know that the devil no longer has power in this world? Is there any scripture that backs it up?
How can the devil be defeated but still have the power to do things? It makes me think that Jesus didn't fully complete His work when He died.
The way I see it, the devil is still the god of this world --
...the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: [Rev 12:9
But we have been given power over the devil--
17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. --Luke 10
Therefore, Jesus has defeated/is defeating satan through each one of us, his body--
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.4Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
--1 John 4
Quote from: rosered on November 03, 2009, 10:51:15 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
Ha ha ! Hey Ya Bro T ! good one made my day ha ha ! i would say
g] Something else? would be my answer bro .......
that confusing verse Jesus uses , well , the word TILL
Was the big clue for me
two other places /accounts written
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
what is tasting death mean?
here is two places that speaks the same things
in the old and in the new testaments , here is the answer to me of that verse what Jesus meant , to swallow up death/ the lie in Life / Truth
Isa 11:4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
If you have a love for the truth....... the Truth /Jesus will set you free
they are synonymous with one another Truth / Jesus Christ this name is Above " all things "
ever look up "all things " what a study that is ! pretty awesome how many times its mentioned ...... here is one example . two three good ones here
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
all things .........Lexicon Results Strong's G3956 - pas πᾶς
Transliteration
pas
Pronunciation
pä's (Key)
Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
including all the forms of declension
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types
:HeartThrob: lots to consider when "all things " means everything eh ? :HeartThrob:
I believe that these two scriptures are indicating the same principle:
Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name [was] Simeon; and the same man [was] just and devout,
waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost,
that he should not see death,
before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here,
which shall not taste of death,
till they see the kingdom of God.
Blessings
Barry
A few thoughts:
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Christ bound Satan at the cross. This began the spoiling of his goods. [He was loosed a little while in that there was persecution on the Church from the synagogue of Satan, the brood of vipers.]
Once fulfillment comes then the law is fulfilled. Without the law there is no accusation. No verifiable accusation that is. Meaning no covenantal stance or position to accuse from.
The works of Satan are thus destroyed.
It's like comparing a temple that might be built today with that within the old covenant precedence. Sure things can mean things between our ears and that is important but that is still not the same as that which had historical precedence.
God has revealed and fully manifested his love without condition. What is going on between our ears has meaning, but does not nullify our present reality. Such things then are not is or interchangeable. One is an historical reality and the other is a figment of our imagination.
Of course the imagination is powerful and should not be underestimated, but it is still cannot void history.
Blessings Barry
:cloud9: Barry, Satan is not the one who is bound, nor is he the strong man. Christ is the one who is bound, and He is the strong man. This teaching originated with the churches who were trying to teach what a "big powerful" devil he is, instead of what an ALL POWERFUL God we have. I am reposting this here.....
Now this is going to shake up some, but the strong man of the house is not Satan.
He has a baptism to be baptized with, and how HE IS BOUND until it be accomplished. Christ, the strong man of the house of God, whose house we are, is bound in all of us
until the kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace and joy IN the Holy Ghost, comes to us.
So getting baptized INTO the Holy Ghost, frees Him to begin to do the WORKS of (God) the Holy Ghost. He is the light of ALL men that come into the world. But in the OT, Satan was already given the "world" = us, the dust he has to crawl on his belly to consume. Satan wanted us to fall, so God made him part of the solution, as what the enemy meant for evil, God (already) meant for good.
Satan continues to eat our dust, making it so uncomfortable in the dust realm for us, that he pushes us right into the solution, which is Christ in us, the hope of glory. As we cooperate with the mind of Christ in line with the Father's plan, Satan literally "pushes" us up to be seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus. Does not any good "footstool" elevate the feet?
Now Christ's "goods" are being spoiled by the devils/devilish carnal mind imaginations, that are binding Him in us (with the AUTHORIZATION of the Father) because He must be reserved in heaven (the realm of the Spirit/understanding) until the time of the restitution or restoring of all things, that the enemy has taken. These things, which be of and in Christ, are IN US, but have been bound, and thereby spoiled, or made a "spoil", as in a spoil of "war."
And the flesh, which Satan has a foothold in, WARS against the Spirit continually. Satan has the AUTHORITY to take us captive by HIS WILL, which was given to Him by the Father. Whatsoever is bound in heaven, is bound in earth.
Ps 19:5 - "Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a STRONG MAN to run a race."
Pr 24:5 - "A WISE MAN IS STRONG; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength."
And what's interesting is if you look up the word for RAM, as in.......
Ge 22:13 - "And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a RAM caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son."
.........you find that it runs into a meaning of a word that means STRONG MAN. You see, we were taught in the churches what a big devil he was, and they had us focusing on that, worrying about everything Satan could do to foil the plans of God, instead of what a big strong man of Christ we had INSIDE US.
Well, the RAM was BOUND, and offered up for a burnt offering. Christ IS the firstfruits offering, and God will supply the offering. So just like the 3 Hebrew children, ie. spirit, soul, and body, when we receive the baptism in the HG that begins to consume the cords that have bound Him in us by the "wicked king", pretty soon we begin to see a FOURTH MAN, the STRONG MAN, in the fire of the living God, that was heated 7 times hotter, purified like the gold of the mercy seat. That fire was the FIFTH element, it was God the Father, who never leaves us or forsakes us, FIVE is the number of His unmerited grace.
Now let's see what happens if you put all these things together.....
Acts 3: 1 "Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
When the "little" word (petras) that we are, joins itself to love (John = beloved/love), we can go UP INTO THE TEMPLE, at the hour of prayer, the 9th hour........9 fruits/9 gifts = the candlestick IN US. The 9th hour was 3pm, the time of the DEATH ON THE CROSS/RAM ON THE ALTAR. And we can go to those then that were lame from their mother's womb = unable to walk in the spirit because they are under the law/their mother is Hagar. We enter in by the STRAIGHT GATE, for OUR ASHES, He gives us beauty, the beauty of the Christ/Ram. Make yourselves a LIVING SACRIFICE.
Acts 3:3 "Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Silver (outer court) and gold (inner court) have I none = I have not held onto the fruit of yesterdays (days 1-6), but have entered into that which is beyond the veil (day 7); Christ in us and our Father are ONE IN US, He is no longer bound, but can finish His work and return to the Father, IN US.
Acts 3:7 And he took him by the right (raised up by the Spirit) hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. 8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God: 10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him. 11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
Solomon's porch had 5 flows of water = flow of the Spirit thru the 5 fold. Those of you that are waiting for the restoration of the 5 fold ministry, it will not happen as many might think, but rather the fullness, which is in the first 2 courts as He told me, means that what was, will be increased.
All must go thru the 2 first, ie. the foundation of the church is built upon the apostles/word and prophets/spirit. Petras/word and love/Spirit, must come into union first. Then the 5 fold as FULLNESS contained in the 2 that are now ONE, the robe of Melchisedek. Father is enthroned in the midst of them. Whenever 2 or more of you are GATHERED in my NAME/NATURE, there I AM in the midst of you. Those that will not gather with Him, scattereth abroad = divide the body. Notice ALL the people ran to THEM. Cast your net on the RIGHT SIDE.
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus (=THE SON HAS RETURNED TO THE FATHER IN US) whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Every time we deny Christ's wisdom, we desire a murderer (Satan was a murderer from the beginning) to be granted unto us. We "kill" the Prince of life, whom God is trying to raise Him from the dead = out of the bondage of corruption.
The corruption is not just this fleshly body He's speaking of, but rather the fleshly wisdom of the carnal mind, which is empowered by Satan that seeks to keep it's place in the temple declaring that he is God.
Satan is the root of the tree that the axe must be laid at. Just as a tree has a main "tap root" that goes down farther into the earth, so is Satan the root that keeps the flesh alive thru sin, thus making it necessitate our being under the law/letter again to kill the flesh.
Acts 3:16 And HIS NAME/NATURE THROUGH FAITH IN HIS NAME/NATURE, hath made this MAN STRONG, whom ye see and know: yea, THE FAITH WHICH IS BY HIM hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
It is not of works (law alone) lest any man should boast. Faith (Spirit/NT covenant fulfilled in us) without works (law/OT covenant fulfilled in us) is dead, and works without faith is dead.
The Word cannot return (to the Father) void = devoid of the Spirit. Without faith (Spirit/NT covenant fulfilled in us) it is impossible to please Him.
For He hath smitten, and He will bind up, come let us return (as the Spirit breathed Word that we were before the foundation of the world/we became the letter Word/waters below the firmament) unto the Lord. HE IS, the Alpha AND the Omega. You can't return unto a place you've never been before..... :bigGrin: Blessings to all......
Hey Cardinal.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Jesus is thief IMO. Satan is the one that was bound.
Blessings Barry
:cloud9: It's a reversal of conditions, if you got my meaning I intended from the first post. Christ starts out as the one that is bound, so that He can raise up IN US to bind Satan.
Understanding the motive of the Pharisees is important to the understanding of the text, because without it you can't know what Jesus was actually responding to, and because as a type of our flesh if we can see it then we can eliminate that aspect of opposition to the Christ in us. So laying the foundation that was laid, once again, lets read what was actually said. Let's look at what He said here again.....
"Matthew 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub 26 the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
So here He was saying to them, since God in this OT dispensation made you, Pharisees, to be one with the Head, and as such you know that GOD has allowed Satan to place them there for judgment, then if your "children", ie. those under you in the outer court of "your body" (such as the disciples, and to them Jesus who was born under their covenant) are casting them out, then whose spirit is casting out that which God put in place thru the hand of Satan?
In other words, if your "children", ie. those born under the OT law covenant are able to cast them out, and YOU, Pharisees/head are not, then they shall be your "judges" ie. that the kingdom has changed "hands", and you didn't even know. So He was telling them that YOUR house will not stand as the Head and the body are no longer in agreement/same covenant, therefore IT is DIVIDED. And so we of this covenant are told, "Know ye not that ye shall judge angels?"
And then He goes on to say......
Matt. 12:28 But if I (TOO) cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
So you, Pharisees, are not with Me (in covenant with God) anymore, as a testimony or proof of that, we (the children) are now the ones casting out devils/devilish imaginations. So since you are not gathering with Me (into the new covenant/Head), you are now scattering abroad (away from the promised land which we know is Christ in His Kingdom), and since the body can only do what it sees it's "head" do, the body (Israelites) was also scattered abroad, ie. Israel ceased to be a nation for a season, until the time of the restitution of all things. My :2c:...........Blessings.....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 05, 2009, 10:31:02 PM
:cloud9: It's a reversal of conditions, if you got my meaning. Christ starts out as the one that is bound, so that He can raise up IN US to bind Satan.
HI Card,
Just curious about this. Do you believe that when we receive the Holy Spirit, that the Spirit begins in us as a force bound by Satan and through our growth the Spirit becomes more and more unbound?
Quote from: Barry DuPont on November 05, 2009, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: rosered on November 03, 2009, 10:51:15 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 03, 2009, 09:43:36 PM
Quoteok WW what is that poll ??lol ... a good answer
Upset I didn't put you on spot a] in that poll RoseY? :winkgrin:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
That verse confuses me big time...
Ha ha ! Hey Ya Bro T ! good one made my day ha ha ! i would say
g] Something else? would be my answer bro .......
that confusing verse Jesus uses , well , the word TILL
Was the big clue for me
two other places /accounts written
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
what is tasting death mean?
here is two places that speaks the same things
in the old and in the new testaments , here is the answer to me of that verse what Jesus meant , to swallow up death/ the lie in Life / Truth
Isa 11:4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
If you have a love for the truth....... the Truth /Jesus will set you free
they are synonymous with one another Truth / Jesus Christ this name is Above " all things "
ever look up "all things " what a study that is ! pretty awesome how many times its mentioned ...... here is one example . two three good ones here
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
all things .........Lexicon Results Strong's G3956 - pas πᾶς
Transliteration
pas
Pronunciation
pä's (Key)
Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
including all the forms of declension
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types
:HeartThrob: lots to consider when "all things " means everything eh ? :HeartThrob:
I believe that these two scriptures are indicating the same principle:
Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name [was] Simeon; and the same man [was] just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Blessings
Barry
Thanks Bro Barry !
Good points there ,
and as Jesus comes as a thief in the night
our darkness in ignorance , He is the Light / knowledge and love of God to expose our empty and dead state of being
our wake up call so to speak :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Hi Seth........the scripture says the Holy Ghost does the works. The fruits of the Spirit are as His "emotions", ie. His nature expressed; the gifts of the Spirit are His actions that He does thru us, His body, ie. the works.
When we are born again, we have the fruit of the "womb" as a pregnant woman, but that child can do no spiritual works. Maturity comes thru the baptism in the Spirit that begins to rend the veil of covering flesh over the child, that He might come to maturity and be seen.
The ark of covenant had two coverings of gold; one inward and one outward. Gold speaks of the higher nature of a thing, and anointing. The inward anointing is receiving Him inwardly, the outward anointing is being baptized into His Spirit.
The crown the overcomers receive is as the crown like fretwork of the mercy seat that covers or crowns the ark, and is as the gold mitre on the High Priests head. This gold it was made from, was beaten and refined 7 times.
His ability to do SPIRITUAL works thru us is bound, until the fire comes (just like the oven heated 7 times hotter that consumed the bindings). Christ as SPIRIT, is bound in us until this baptism of fire, just like a spring fed well that has been capped off and sealed.
The seal that caps it off is the carnal mind, the stone that must be rolled away, that is in agreement with the usurper of the authority of the fire of the Holy Ghost, that is to come upon our heads. The authority rests upon the shoulders.
When Christ sat upon the well of the Samaritan woman, it symbolized this "capping off" of the ability to draw out of the carnal nature of soulical man, to instead draw out of the endless life of the Spirit. This is why He told her essentially, that she had 6 husbands = the 5 senses and the carnal mind. This well is what He "caps off" in His role as priest/intercessor, ie. the Holy Ghost. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 05, 2009, 11:01:38 PM
:cloud9: Hi Seth........the scripture says the Holy Ghost does the works. The fruits of the Spirit are as His "emotions", ie. His nature expressed; the gifts of the Spirit are His actions that He does thru us, His body, ie. the works.
When we are born again, we have the fruit of the "womb" as a pregnant woman, but that child can do no spiritual works. Maturity comes thru the baptism in the Spirit that begins to rend the veil of covering flesh over the child, that He might come to maturity and be seen.
The ark of covenant had two coverings of gold; one inward and one outward. Gold speaks of the higher nature of a thing, and anointing. The inward anointing is receiving Him inwardly, the outward anointing is being baptized into His Spirit.
The crown the overcomers receive is as the crown like fretwork of the mercy seat that covers or crowns the ark, and is as the gold mitre on the High Priests head. This gold it was made from, was beaten and refined 7 times.
His ability to do SPIRITUAL works thru us is bound, until the fire comes (just like the oven heated 7 times hotter that consumed the bindings). Christ as SPIRIT, is bound in us until this baptism of fire, just like a spring fed well that has been capped off and sealed.
The seal that caps it off is the carnal mind, the stone that must be rolled away, that is in agreement with the usurper of the authority of the fire of the Holy Ghost, that is to come upon our heads. The authority rests upon the shoulders.
When Christ sat upon the well of the Samaritan woman, it symbolized this "capping off" of the ability to draw out of the carnal nature of soulical man, to instead draw out of the endless life of the Spirit. This is why He told her essentially, that she had 6 husbands = the 5 senses and the carnal mind. This well is what He "caps off" in His role as priest/intercessor, ie. the Holy Ghost. Blessings....
I think we see things very similarly as to the actual workings. Only that I would not say that the Spirit is bound, or that Christ is bound in us.
What I would say is this: The house is our mind. Satan binds the strong man of our house, which is us, so that while we want to do good, we cannot, thereby spoiling/robbing our house (Romans 7), that we become members of Satan's house (ie "those who sin are of their father the devil"). Then, Christ is the thief that comes to bind that strong man, spoiling Satan's house and setting us free which is setting us free from sin.
I see this as manifesting as a change in our ability to do what we wanted to do, when before we could not, and that by God's grace He keeps Satan from binding us again.
I don't believe that if we return to sin, that the Holy Spirit becomes bound, only that we become bound again and as the Lord has said, He turns some over to a base mind, and I see that as part of a humbling judgment to bring us down like prodigal sons.
Personally, I don't see Christ ever being bound by Satan in any way.
:cloud9: Who went to the cross bound? Christ or Satan? Who was the ram that was bound, in type?
The part about binding the strong man and then plundering his goods, is exactly what happens to Him in us by Him not being allowed to manifest thru us in spiritual works. We are not just His temple, His house, but we are OF the house of Him in lineage and that means, we are one with the Son of the King.
Now if the King cannot administer the power of the Kingdom, to DECREE what is to be (calling those things are not INTO MANIFESTATION) thru His Son and have it be so (established), then it is even because His son, is bound, IN US, because the Son when mature, does the Father's "business".
Which is because His Son, IS, as the ring of authority that "sits" at His right hand, which is why the HG was said to have been SHED FORTH from Him on the day of Pentecost. Which is why He said He had a baptism to be baptized with, and how He was constrained (means bound) until it was accomplished........HIS WORDS, not mine.
In antiquity, there were cylindrical clay tablets that edicts were written on, and to make it LAW (His law written in our hearts), it had to bear the SEAL of the King's RING, for Him to PURCHASE goods and LANDS.
But because of erroneous teachings, the ring has been withheld from the RETURNING SONS, and so too, the robe (glorified body). Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 05, 2009, 11:42:14 PM
:cloud9: Who went to the cross bound? Christ or Satan? Who was the ram that was bound, in type?
I don't think Christ being bound to the cross was Satan's work.
John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
So yes, Christ went to the Cross bound, but not by Satan.
QuoteThe part about binding the strong man and then plundering his goods, is exactly what happens to Him in us by Him not being allowed to manifest thru us in spiritual works. We are not just His temple, His house, but we are OF the house of Him in lineage and that means, we are one with the Son of the King.
Now if the King cannot administer the power of the Kingdom, to DECREE what is to be (calling those things are not INTO MANIFESTATION) thru His Son and have it be so (established), then it is even because His son, is bound, IN US, because the Son when mature, does the Father's "business".
Again Christ in us is baptism into His death. The death is not Satan's work but Christ's work. We do not allow or dissallow the Spirit to work miracles in us. It is the Spirit's choice.
1 Cor 12
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one,
just as he determines.
In context with Mark here is what I see:
- The Pharisees accused Christ of casting out devils by the power of Beezlebub
- Christ said, that doesn't make sense, the devil does not cast the devil out
- which is to say that he was not using the power of the devil to cast out demons, but actually BINDING the devil and robbing the devil of his possession.
What the Pharisees were saying was that Christ was spoiling the devil's house IN COOPERATION with the devil. But Christ was saying: NO, I am spoiling the devil's house, therefore, I am not cooperating with him, but BINDING him. That's how I see it.
So in that vein, looking at this scripture:
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Basically saying, if I am using satan to cast out satan, then satan is robbing his own house! That doesn't make sense. On to the next verse:
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Basically saying: you see? I am not cooperating with Satan to rob his house, but BINDING and OPPOSING satan instead, that THAT is how I am able to cast out demons, thereby robbing the devil's house.
:cloud9: I know Satan didn't bind Him, except with the Father's authority to do so. That was in my first post. Blessings...
Quote from: Cardinal on November 06, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
:cloud9: I know Satan didn't bind Him, except with the Father's authority to do so. That was in my first post. Blessings...
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I missed that part. :HeartThrob:
So if Christ was bound on the cross by Satan, with the Father's and the Son's authority, I am still not sure how that would translate to Christ being bound by Satan within us.
Are you saying that the Father gives Satan the authority to bind Christ to the cross within us? Because as I see Romans 6 play out, I am seeing that being bound to the cross through baptism of the Spirit is that which sets us FREE from being bound by Satan. From what the Lord says in the Mark verses, Satan cannot bind Christ within us to the cross, because he would be robbing his own house. That binding to the cross within us is what delivers us from the work of the devil right?
The goods of Satan are the things of men.
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.
The things of men is the "independent human potential". The goods of Satan is human self sufficiency.
It is this that Christ came and took as a thief in the night. He took away the old covenant system which was the precedence of the independent human potential. This was the consumation of universal reconciliation.
"with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible".
Blessings Barry
Quote from: Seth on November 06, 2009, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on November 06, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
:cloud9: I know Satan didn't bind Him, except with the Father's authority to do so. That was in my first post. Blessings...
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I missed that part. :HeartThrob:
So if Christ was bound on the cross by Satan, with the Father's and the Son's authority, I am still not sure how that would translate to Christ being bound by Satan within us.
Are you saying that the Father gives Satan the authority to bind Christ to the cross within us? Because as I see Romans 6 play out, I am seeing that being bound to the cross through baptism of the Spirit is that which sets us FREE from being bound by Satan. From what the Lord says in the Mark verses, Satan cannot bind Christ within us to the cross, because he would be robbing his own house. That binding to the cross within us is what delivers us from the work of the devil right?
Welcome to 'original sin.' I was really amazed at what Cardinal was saying, in fact, it brought me to tears.
The first man Adam was bound by satan, wasn't he? God's man, God's husbandman, reduced to wrestling with thorns and thistles, producing food by the sweat of his brow. Kicked out of the garden wherein the tree of life existed, reduced to a sorrowful, fleeting existence. Score one for satan. Didn't Adam have the Christ within? We are told he is the image of the one to come.
Jesus retraces Adam's steps, starting outside the gate, with one exception, he lives a life without sin, overcoming [frees himself] the binding of satan, and then dies for us so that we will be free, also. He hands himself over to satan, who has no part in him, to be bound and murdered, for us, so that we who are also bound unto death might rise with him in a resurrected life.
Without Jesus, where would we be?
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.--Gen 3
Quote from: Molly on November 06, 2009, 01:11:34 AM
Jesus retraces Adam's steps, starting outside the gate, with one exception, he lives a life without sin, overcoming [frees himself] the binding of satan, and then dies for us so that we will be free, also. He hands himself over to satan, who has no part in him, to be bound and murdered, for us, so that we who are also bound unto death might rise with him in a resurrected life.
That wasn't my question though that I raised in the post you quoted. I said that Satan does NOT bind Christ to the cross within us. If he did, Satan would be robbing his own house.
So even if we say that Satan bound Christ to the cross, as given authority by the Father and the Son to do so, Satan CANNOT bind Christ to the cross within us, because that in itself is what sets us free FROM satan. That is what I am clarifying.
QuoteWithout Jesus, where would we be?
Without Jesus we would need someone to bind Satan and steal his goods so we could be free. That's the issue here. Who is the "strong man" in the Mark verse. It looks to me, as I had broken it down, that the strong man is Satan who Christ bound and robbed the house at the moment he cast the demon out of the man. :HeartThrob:
QuoteKicked out of the garden wherein the tree of life existed, reduced to a sorrowful, fleeting existence. Score one for satan. Didn't Adam have the Christ within?
Well, I do not believe Adam had Christ within, but I will leave that alone since even if Adam did, the fact that he sinned, does not mean Christ was bound. If someone sins, Christ is not bound, the PERSON is bound by whatever he submitted himself to, and he then needs the Thief (Christ) to rob the house again.
Christ is the thief.
When Christ casts a demon out, he has bound the Satan and looted his property. If the demon comes back, it is because the house has been swept and prepared for it. Then the thief must come again and bind the strong man and loot the house again.
QuoteIf he did, Satan would be robbing his own house.
It's not satan's house, it never was. Satan is an interloper, a usurper, a thief, a murderer, and a liar.
It was always the house--the temple--of the Most High God.
If I and my thuggy buddies moved into your house and tied you up, would that make it my house?
:cloud9: Molly you literally took the words right out of my mouth, LOL...... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Molly on November 06, 2009, 01:28:53 AM
It's not satan's house, it never was.
It was always the house--the temple--of the Most High God.
We know that God is the father of all, yet those who sin are of their father the devil.
QuoteIf I and my thuggy buddies moved into your house and tied you up, would that make it my house?
Yes, for the time being.
QuoteSatan is an interloper, a usurper, a thief, a murderer, and a liar.
Userper is an interesting word. It means someone who TAKES by force. Now, if Satan is a thief, SO IS CHRIST.
That takes me back to what I had said:
"Satan (the bad thief) binds the strong man of our house, which is us, so that while we want to do good, we cannot, thereby spoiling/robbing our house (Romans 7), that we become members of Satan's house (ie "those who sin are of their father the devil"). Then, Christ is the thief that comes to bind that strong man, spoiling Satan's house and setting us free which is setting us free from sin."
If Satan is a thief, so is Christ. Yet Christ is not bound by Satan. The person who NEEDS Christ is bound by Satan. Satan is looted when the good thief robs the house.
And so much of the world is tied and bound, living in the dark basements of their own house, for so long, they don't even know if it's day or night.
"Yes, for the time being."
That! Is the deception!
Christ has the deed.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 01:50:15 AM
"Yes, for the time being."
That! Is the deception!
Beloved, is it a deception to say that those who sin are of their father the devil?
Not any more than it is a deception to say that if Satan bound Christ to the cross, he did so with the authority given by the Father.
If Satan takes ownership of the house, he does so through deception.
If we give Satan hold in our lives, he has usurped the house, because we swept it clear and made preparation for 7 more demons to occupy it.
In the same way that satan is the father of those who sin, the Father owns the house, but if we give our house to the deceiver, he takes ownership. Not ultimately, but for the time being.
the sin is the offspring of it's father
the authority was given by the Father and the Son
he never takes ownership, he just drives the bus
we rarely give it freely, it's a lie
he never owns the house, just a deadbeat tenant — we pay the bills.
Heard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
Hey folks,
Still think that the point is being very much missed. But JMO :)
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Satan is now silent.
Barry
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AM
Heard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
Yes, he bought back what was his and was stolen from him. He paid a ransom for his kinsmen.
Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:"redeemer"H1350
גּאל
gâ'algaw-al'
A primitive root,
to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), that is, to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.): - X in any wise, X at all, avenger, deliver, (do, perform the part of near, next) kinsfolk (-man), purchase,
ransom, redeem (-er), revenger.
Amen, Molly.
And Barry, your reply is unto the brethren.
Really Barry, keeping with the script that there is nothing new under the sun, satan is louder now then ever before.
Satan is a master of mass communication.
Matthew reminds us in 26:
41 Watch and pray, lest you may be entering into trial. The spirit, indeed, is eager; yet the flesh is infirm."
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 03:02:14 AM
Really Barry, keeping with the script that there is nothing new under the sun, Satan is louder now then ever before.
Satan is a master of mass communication.
Hey Beloved.
This definition is not in the scriptures anywhere that I have found.
The Satan of the bible cannot be divorced from the old covenant system.
Hbr 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Satan is finished in the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the outward visible manifestation of the old covenant end.
The accuser has no law to bring an accusation. There is then no adversary.
Now what people want to invent in their imagination is a different matter.
That is how I understand this matter.
Blessings Barry
Alas, we wait for the harvest of the firstfruits.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwzItqYmII
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 05, 2009, 10:53:22 AM
Quote
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.
Beautiful! I think I'm going to change this to my TM signature if you don't mind.
(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1467/1467324zkv7bjq2zs.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
Absolutely, from the innermost of the heart.
Quote from: peacemaker on November 06, 2009, 04:41:49 AM
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 05, 2009, 10:53:22 AM
Quote
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.
Beautiful! I think I'm going to change this to my TM signature if you don't mind.
(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1467/1467324zkv7bjq2zs.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
Absolutely, from the innermost of the heart.
Awww... thank you, Peacemaker. I love Andy :winkgrin:
Anne
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 03:02:14 AM
Really Barry, keeping with the script that there is nothing new under the sun, satan is louder now then ever before.
Satan is a master of mass communication.
Hey beloved.
What if that script was the old script? Solomon never was given the wisdom of Christ or the wisdom that Christ brought.
Clearly in the time of the writting of the new testament everything was being made new.
Now if that has already happened and everything is now new, how can we see that if we are using an old script?
This leads us back to imagination which is our most powerful tool. Whether that be to move forward and to move backward or stand still. Our personal expectations is part of how our imagination works.
The question then is: to what extent is our expectations getting in the way of our understanding? Not if it is or not but to what extent. For no one is exempt of presumptions through personal expectations. [In fact that is how the Jews missed the first appearance.]
Just some thoughts
Blessings Barry
Quote from: Barry DuPont on November 06, 2009, 05:42:43 PM
Hey beloved.
What if that script was the old script? Solomon never was given the wisdom of Christ or the wisdom that Christ brought.
:cloud9: Sorry Barry, but I don't agree with this. You might be surprised at what wisdom was Solomon was given.
And I'm not understanding your previous post about Satan being silenced? Are you equating him with the Jews somehow? I don't get it. Thanks....Blessings.....
Hey Cardinal.
It is ok with me if you or anyone else disagrees with my any of my views. In any case this is what I believe.
If I may touch on this one point for the moment from my point of view.
Ecc 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
Ecc 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all [is] vanity.
Ecc 1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
Ecc 1:4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
{The old covenant system had no efficacy to it. Wherever potential was manifested God stopped it. (Gen. 8)
Ecc 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Ecc 1:6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
Ecc 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea [is] not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
Ecc 1:8 All things [are] full of labour; man cannot utter [it]: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.
{Labor was unfulfilling under the old system. History could not build upon itself as it has for the last 2000 years. Working democracies, Magda carta, bill of rights, women's rights, abolition of slavery, human rights, movement from kings to judicial as opposed to the movement from Judaical to kings http://infinite-grace.com/judges.htm
ECT. The old covenant man saw nothing new.}
Ecc 1:10 Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
Ecc 1:11 [There is] no remembrance of former [things]; neither shall there be [any] remembrance of [things] that are to come with [those] that shall come after.
Ecc 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.
This gives us both a comparison of the greatness of the wisdom and Solomon and that of Christ and a clear time frame.
1Cr 1:19 for it hath been written, `I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will bring to nought;'
1Cr 1:20 where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cr 1:21 for, seeing in the wisdom of God the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing.
1Cr 1:28 and the base things of the world, and the things despised did God choose, and the things that are not, that the things that are He may make useless --
1Cr 1:29 that no flesh may glory before Him;
1Cr 1:30 and of Him ye -- ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption,
1Cr 1:31 that, according as it hath been written, `He who is glorying -- in the Lord let him glory.'
The old covenant man could not know God in His wisdom until Christ.
Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
{covenantally speaking of course} for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea {IE no more Gentiles}.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
The correct tense in the Greek is "I am making everything new".
If we cannot see the new world around us it is either because it has not come yet or because we are interpreting the bible through our own personal expectations which are blinding us.
I believe in the latter.
JMO
Barry
Hi Barry and Card ,
I looked into this years ago
and saw somethings that may help out
or not lol I realized that the way the Bible is worded has a great mystery in it How it is worded in such a way , that connects to other scriptures
But it started with this verse here Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies
now here Solomon was given 1Ki 4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that [is] on the sea shore.
in comparing these two verses them seeds / children
as stars of heaven [ lights shining with the knowldge of God in a high and dark place .
And the other children as the sands of the sea shore
more moved by the water of the Word and still more so earth bound
I will shorten this by using the few verses needed to explain
what I saw when Jesus spoke about Solomon and those lillies of the field , when I went into a deeper look on lillies I saw they were basically '' trumpets '' and '' upright white ones ''
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
all flesh is grass Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field:
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
So I just saw Solomon in His glory as for a time and season it faded and fell , his was of the earthly realm and Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God and the power of Life
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
we all know this though
I just was trying to show how the Words seem to connect in different places
... :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AM
Heard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
The connection between Satan and apostate Israel:[as things had developed in this time of course]
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
2Cr 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ {too come under the law, the knowledge of good and evil as it were}.
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
2Cr 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
These are the Judaizers of the first century.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. That is what the "Satan" of the bible cherished. An independent human potential. The things of men. The goods of the strong man which was strong in the precedence of types and figures. Adam was a type of Christ. Christ was the last Adam.
Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
The Jews were involved in a 3 prong civil war by the time the Romans came in AD 70. John (one of the three) had entered into the temple where not allowed by law and this became the abomination that causes desolation. These were the armies that signaled a departure for the believers. The Roman armies would have been too late. For if the Roman armies are the ones who created the abomination which is specific to the temple then that would be about 4 months after they surrounded old Jerusalem. Clearly too late to be the armies of Luke 21:20.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, {spiritually} but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. There is a very clear difference between understanding the bible in its time and so extrapolating the spiritual meaning from the historical manifestation and trying to adapt the bible to our personal expectations to make it relevant to us in our present time.
There is a very clear difference between understanding the bible in its time and so extrapolating the spiritual meaning from the historical manifestation and trying to adapt the bible to our personal expectations to make it relevant to us in our present time.
The two different approaches have very distinct differences. That is what I'm saying.
JMO
Barry
Quote from: rosered on November 06, 2009, 11:10:45 PM
Hi Barry and Card ,
I looked into this years ago
and saw somethings that may help out
or not lol I realized that the way the Bible is worded has a great mystery in it How it is worded in such a way , that connects to other scriptures
But it started with this verse here Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies
now here Solomon was given 1Ki 4:29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that [is] on the sea shore.
in comparing these two verses them seeds / children
as stars of heaven [ lights shining with the knowldge of God in a high and dark place .
And the other children as the sands of the sea shore
more moved by the water of the Word and still more so earth bound
I will shorten this by using the few verses needed to explain
what I saw when Jesus spoke about Solomon and those lillies of the field , when I went into a deeper look on lillies I saw they were basically " trumpets " and " upright white ones "
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
all flesh is grass Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field:
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
So I just saw Solomon in His glory as for a time and season it faded and fell , his was of the earthly realm and Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God and the power of Life
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
we all know this though
I just was trying to show how the Words seem to connect in different places
... :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Loved this, Rose........never noticed those connections before. :thumbsup:
QuoteLoved this, Rose........never noticed those connections before.
Thanks sis I have been ejoying your posts alot , they sure are blessing me
I cannot possible comment on every one but wanted you to know how much I hear you Sis!!! :icon_flower: PTL !! :HeartThrob: Love ya girl
Quote from: rosered on November 06, 2009, 11:10:45 PM
I will shorten this by using the few verses needed to explain
what I saw when Jesus spoke about Solomon and those lillies of the field , when I went into a deeper look on lillies I saw they were basically " trumpets " and " upright white ones "
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
all flesh is grass Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field:
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
So I just saw Solomon in His glory as for a time and season it faded and fell , his was of the earthly realm and Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God and the power of Life
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
we all know this though
I just was trying to show how the Words seem to connect in different places
... :HeartThrob:
Good stuff IMO
A few thoughts:
The wisdom of Solomon is compared over-against that of Christ. Solomon serves as a type and anti-type.
In kingship over Jerusalem (of old). His number is 666.He stands for the princes of that age.
In Wisdom (old to new)
In wealth and riches (Ownership as opposed to NC stewardship. We do not even own our own bodies. We are no longer spirits in prison.)
Barry
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AM
Heard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
QuoteGood stuff IMO
A few thoughts:
The wisdom of Solomon is compared over-against that of Christ. Solomon serves as a type and anti-type.
In kingship over Jerusalem (of old). His number is 666.He stands for the princes of that age.
In Wisdom (old to new)
In wealth and riches (Ownership as opposed to NC stewardship. We do not even own our own bodies. We are no longer spirits in prison.)
Barry
Hey Bro Barry ,
I agree with your exampls !
good job :thumbsup: , looked into this with a small group of friends in bible studies a couple years back , and you just refreshed them in your above reply [ brought back toremembrance ] for me
Thanks !!! :HeartThrob: 1Cr
6:20 For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Quote from: jenna on November 07, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AM
Heard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
I disagree with that.
Mark: 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce,
if it were possible, even the elect.
2 Thessalonians 3:3:
But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
John 10:27-30
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,
that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Quote from: Seth on November 08, 2009, 07:26:26 AM
Quote from: jenna on November 07, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AMHeard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
I disagree with that.
Yep the elect can't be deceived but the saints can.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 08, 2009, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 08, 2009, 07:26:26 AM
Quote from: jenna on November 07, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AMHeard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
I disagree with that.
Yep the elect can't be deceived but the saints can.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 08, 2009, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 08, 2009, 07:26:26 AM
Quote from: jenna on November 07, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AMHeard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
I disagree with that.
Yep the elect can't be deceived but the saints can.
So according to you, there's a difference between the two?
Jenna,
Below what Ray Smith wrote. I hope it makes some sense because it's part of a much larger article so you may miss some info on what he build his conclusions.
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall
show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE
POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).
Ah, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the very elect! Will someone tell me what's going on here with this wild beast?
WHO ARE THE SAINTS?
If the very elect can't be deceived, is it possible for saints to be deceived? Yes, there is a difference. One can be a saint long before he becomes the VERY elect.
Were the believers in Ephesus called, saints?
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE
SAINTS which are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"
(Eph. 1:1).
So, Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were
they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren't.
"Unto the angel of the church of EPHESUS write... I have
somewhat ['somewhat' is not in the Greek texts] ...I have against you,
because you have LEFT YOUR FIRST LOVE" (Rev. 2:1 & 4).
Is Jesus accusing the whole church at Ephesus of leaving their first love, if in
reality, there were only a few? But there were NOT just a few—the WHOLE
CHURCH of Ephesus "left their first love." And furthermore, since the Seven
Churches are ONE CHURCH, THE WHOLE CHURCH left their first love! Believe
it or not, leaving one's first love, is part of the process of "going on to perfection"
(Heb. 6:1).
Quote from: jenna on November 09, 2009, 01:07:50 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 08, 2009, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Seth on November 08, 2009, 07:26:26 AM
Quote from: jenna on November 07, 2009, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Seth on November 07, 2009, 12:57:15 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 06, 2009, 02:14:11 AMHeard of the real estate boom?
Well, our house has been bought for a high price!
The highest price that could ever be paid.
I agree, that is why the elect cannot be deceived. :thumbsup:
Ah, but they can be, if they are not diligent and watchful.
I disagree with that.
Yep the elect can't be deceived but the saints can.
So according to you, there's a difference between the two?
My take:
There is no difference between the elect and the saints in that they are of the same goal and mission.
The word "elect" has a final result in view. That final result is dependent upon a completion or perfection process that involved temptations, sufferings, persecutions and trials.
The word saints, involves more the process and so a "proving ground" or "testing ground".
It does not mean that someone could not be believing and then unbelieving.
It means that some of those functioning as saints would have to be proven to be the elect. [And would then not be hurt by the second death.]
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; {Converted Judaizers}
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; {Teaching that the Temple and Jerusalem would not be destroyed} and overthrow the faith of some {by bringing them under law}.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work. Blessings Barry
Matt 5;19 anyone who breaks one of the least of these
commandments,shall be called "least" in the kingdom of heaven.
But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be
called great in the Kingdom of Heaven
Matt 25;40 The King will reply,' I tell you, whatever you did
for one of the least of these my brothers of mine ,you did for me
Hebrews 8;11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,or a
man his brother,saying'know the Lord' for they will all know
me,from the least to the greatest. For I will forgive their
wickedness and remember their sins no more
2 Cor 11;13 For such men are false apostle's,deceitful
workmen,masquerading as apostle's of Christ
Matt 18;6 And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my
name,welcomes me.But if anyone cause one of these little ones
who beleive in me to sin.It would be better for him to have a
large millstone hung around his neck,and to be drowned in the
depths of the sea[Rev 18;21] then a mighty angel picked up a
boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the
sea,and said; with such great violence the great city of Babylon
will be thrown down,never to be found again'
Rejoice over herOHeavens Rejoice saints and apostle's and
prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.
So yes, many little ones have been led into error, but our
Father promises to teach them. All will know Him.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 10:30:58 AM
Jenna,
Below what Ray Smith wrote. I hope it makes some sense because it's part of a much larger article so you my missing some info on what he build his conclusions.
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall
show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE
POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).
Ah, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the very elect! Will someone tell me what's going on here with this wild beast?
WHO ARE THE SAINTS?
If the very elect can't be deceived, is it possible for saints to be deceived? Yes, there is a difference. One can be a saint long before he becomes the VERY elect.
Were the believers in Ephesus called, saints?
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE
SAINTS which are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"
(Eph. 1:1).
So, Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were
they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren't.
"Unto the angel of the church of EPHESUS write... I have
somewhat ['somewhat' is not in the Greek texts] ...I have against you,
because you have LEFT YOUR FIRST LOVE" (Rev. 2:1 & 4).
Is Jesus accusing the whole church at Ephesus of leaving their first love, if in
reality, there were only a few? But there were NOT just a few—the WHOLE
CHURCH of Ephesus "left their first love." And furthermore, since the Seven
Churches are ONE CHURCH, THE WHOLE CHURCH left their first love! Believe
it or not, leaving one's first love, is part of the process of "going on to perfection"
(Heb. 6:1).
Great stuff. :thumbsup:
I really appreciate all the views people have given on this thread. It has given me a lot to think about and sort out for myself.
Much thanks to all.
:icon_flower:
... please don't stop discussing this.... it is very interresting for me to see.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 11, 2009, 07:11:50 AM
I really appreciate all the views people have given on this thread. It has given me a lot to think about and sort out for myself.
Much thanks to all.
:icon_flower:
... please don't stop discussing this.... it is very interresting for me to see.
Why thank you sis for making it !
Do you have any views on the subject ?
For many years I had nothing solid .or even could explain what satan is .
But there is many things to look into and seach out before a conclusion .
But I found most people hold their own ''thoughts'' about it .
lots of different verses and Word meanings in the greek and Hebrew dictonary with Lexicon and articles on this site and also on the internet
His Love :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
Heb 10:12-1412 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
13 From henceforth expecting
till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (KJV
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward
UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (NASB)
Quote from: LittleSaint on November 15, 2009, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
Who all believes that the devil has been completely silenced? Isn't that one of the things Jesus accomplished when He died?
Heb 10:12-14
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (KJV
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (NASB)
:thumbsup: Great verses Little Saint !! :HeartThrob:
Heb 10:12-14
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
What does this mean?
Does God have a hand?
Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
:cloud9: Yes, He has 2 of them, a right (Spirit/male) and a left (natural/fenale). He is "clapping" His hands right now, ie. joining His Spirit to flesh or natural, apostle to prophet to create one new man. Some people do not know their left hand from their right hand; this is why we are given discernment.
Christ ascended sits on the right hand as the ring of authority does, ie. the seal. This is why the 5 fold ministry of CHRIST as SPIRIT in men, is the hand of God in the earth. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 19, 2009, 08:29:58 PM
:cloud9: Yes, He has 2 of them, a right (Spirit/male) and a left (natural/fenale). He is "clapping" His hands right now, ie. joining His Spirit to flesh or natural, apostle to prophet to create one new man. Some people do not know their left hand from their right hand; this is why we are given discernment.
Christ ascended sits on the right hand as the ring of authority does, ie. the seal. Blessings....
If the right hand of God is the Spirit/male, then, what are the sons of God?
Are they the right hand of God? That Christ is sitting on?
Quote
Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
all flesh is grass Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field:
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
So I just saw Solomon in His glory as for a time and season it faded and fell , his was of the earthly realm and Jesus Christ is the wisdom of God and the power of Life
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
we all know this though I just was trying to show how the Words seem to connect in different places
Rose, I just now read this of yours. Thank you for showing me the difference in Solomon's glory and Christ's glory. I never made all those connections from the scriptures that you have shown here. I get so excited when people show me things in God's Word that I never 'SAW' before. I'm a glutton lately for the Word of God.
:HeartThrob:
Anne
You changed your post, Cardinal, at the same time I was responding to it. lol
Satan is standing at the right hand of Joshua, but Christ is sitting on the right hand of God.
This is his throne.
Genesis 41:40
Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
"throne"
H3678
כּסּה כּסּא
kissê' kissêh
kis-say', kis-say'
From H3680; properly covered, that is, a throne (as canopied): - seat, stool, throne.
Quote from: Molly on November 19, 2009, 08:45:39 PM
You changed your post, Cardinal, at the same time I was responding to it. lol
Satan is standing at the right hand of Joshua, but Christ is sitting on the right hand of God.
This is his throne.
Genesis 41:40
Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
"throne"
H3678
כּסּה כּסּא
kissê' kissêh
kis-say', kis-say'
From H3680; properly covered, that is, a throne (as canopied): - seat, stool, throne.
:cloud9: Yeah, I love it when He does that........it's that apothecary when He mixes what is in each other that has been deposited, to bring out a sweet ointment, the unity of His Spirit. Blessings... :girlheart:
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
--Psalm 110
:cloud9: Amen......the old priesthood is passing away and a new order after the order of Melchisedek is being raised up, who will have full authority in the earth. Come, Lord, come. Blessings....
Quote
QuoteCardinal on November 19, 2009, 01:29:58 PM
Yes, He has 2 of them, a right (Spirit/male) and a left (natural/fenale). He is "clapping" His hands right now, ie. joining His Spirit to flesh or natural, apostle to prophet to create one new man. Some people do not know their left hand from their right hand; this is why we are given discernment.
Christ ascended sits on the right hand as the ring of authority does, ie. the seal. Blessings....
If the right hand of God is the Spirit/male, then, what are the sons of God?
Are they the right hand of God? That Christ is sitting on?
The right hand is a symbol of power, authority and judgement.
Think of a king holding a scepter in his hand... he brings it down when he has made a decision on something to symbolize that it is his final say / judgement. Just as judges in the court system today bang their little mallots when they have made a decision... it is by the right hand.
Jesus sits on the right hand of God as our judgement. He has died and taken our place in judgement so we do not have to.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 20, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
Quote
QuoteCardinal on November 19, 2009, 01:29:58 PM
Yes, He has 2 of them, a right (Spirit/male) and a left (natural/fenale). He is "clapping" His hands right now, ie. joining His Spirit to flesh or natural, apostle to prophet to create one new man. Some people do not know their left hand from their right hand; this is why we are given discernment.
Christ ascended sits on the right hand as the ring of authority does, ie. the seal. Blessings....
If the right hand of God is the Spirit/male, then, what are the sons of God?
Are they the right hand of God? That Christ is sitting on?
The right hand is a symbol of power, authority and judgement.
Think of a king holding a scepter in his hand... he brings it down when he has made a decision on something to symbolize that it is his final say / judgement. Just as judges in the court system today bang their little mallots when they have made a decision... it is by the right hand.
Jesus sits on the right hand of God as our judgement. He has died and taken our place in judgement so we do not have to.
Hey S,
The last part of what you wrote doesn't seem correct to me. I think we have our place in judgment IN CHRIST.
cp
Quote from: Syndicated on November 20, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
He has died and taken our place in judgment so we do not have to.
Nowhere did Jesus ever say, "It is finished, I am a substitution?"
Sounds more like the word of faith movement, not the Word of Faith of Christ who is the Resurrection, for in him we live, move, and have our being; life.
The Syncretism of Orthodox Christianity (based on fables) and mysticism, as in touching God's anointed is questionable? If, I recall correctly, one of these who literally spreads cooking oil on others (vegetable or olive oil in his sacred ceremonies), claimed that there were nine in a trinity? And, there is another that states faith is a force?
"Faith is not, believing God can, it's knowing that He will." It is trusting in him alone, not in buying or selling their merchandise.
I realize this is a sore subject for many, so will leave it at that!
:cloud9: I don't know about all the rest of the junk, but I have used olive oil to pray for the sick as well as "wash your face and anoint your head with oil (when ye fast)". It's not a mystery thing, it's a point of contact for your/their faith, no different than Paul's handkerchief.
In the hot arid lands of the bible, it was a common courtesy to offer cleansing of face, hands, and feet, and to anoint them with soothing oil, sort of a "house blessing". Since we are now of Father's house, His Spirit washes our face/nature, hands/works, and feet/walk and anoints them for service. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on November 23, 2009, 03:03:44 AM
It's not a mystery thing ...
Of course not, Cardinal.
And I have also used natural ingredients; purified water, oils, aloe vera extract, and other
soothing moisturizers, especially, when my daughters were infants but never as a pretense. :mblush:
:cloud9: I take it I misunderstood your post PM, LOL? :mblush: Not the first time, for sure won't be the last....... :winkgrin: Blessings.....
Quote from: peacemaker on November 23, 2009, 02:09:41 AM
Quote from: Syndicated on November 20, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
He has died and taken our place in judgment so we do not have to.
Nowhere did Jesus ever say, "It is finished, I am a substitution?"
Sounds more like the word of faith movement, not the Word of Faith of Christ who is the Resurrection, for in him we live, move, and have our being; life.
The Syncretism of Orthodox Christianity (based on fables) and mysticism, as in touching God's anointed is questionable? If, I recall correctly, one of these who literally spreads cooking oil on others (vegetable or olive oil in his sacred ceremonies), claimed that there were nine in a trinity? And, there is another that states faith is a force?
"Faith is not, believing God can, it's knowing that He will." It is trusting in him alone, not in buying or selling their merchandise.
I realize this is a sore subject for many, so will leave it at that!
Yes, I agree with you. I think that many people outside the faith are turned off by all the Christian paraphernalia flashing in their faces. Crosses, oil, candles, steeples, bibles. I think that is possibly what is meant in the OT about not wearing mixed fabric garments. It is enough to clothe oneself with love and grace and truth -- to become all things to all men. People don't like religious stuff thrown around, nor do they like people who speak religiously out of habit. It is a turn off to outsiders. Aren't we supposed to be bringing those who are outside into God's throne?
Anne
p.s. I also do not believe Jesus was our substitute. Otherwise, we would not still be subject to death. He was our brother who showed us the way to God is through death, even the death of the cross. In other words, we have a cross too. Jesus was the firstborn from among the dead.
I agree, He is our example, and we share in His suffering as we become more like Him - growing, maturing.
But as I understand and believe, if He wasn't our substitute, in terms of the Lamb that was slain to take away the sins of the world, then we are still under the curse of sin. "...the Anointed One also loved you, and delivered Himself over for us as an offering and sacrifice to God, that was a fragrant aroma to Him." Eph 5:2
God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21)
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13).
Quote from: jabcat on November 23, 2009, 07:46:01 PM
I agree, He is our example, and we share in His suffering as we become more like Him - growing, maturing.
But as I understand and believe, if He wasn't our substitute, in terms of the Lamb that was slain to take away the sins of the world, then we are still under the curse of sin. "...the Anointed One also loved you, and delivered Himself over for us as an offering and sacrifice to God, that was a fragrant aroma to Him." Eph 5:2
God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21)
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13).
:thumbsup: amen bro James a double witness the old and new
Isaiah says it too Isa 53:1 ¶ Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isa 53:4 ¶
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5
But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 ¶
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. Isa 53:10 ¶
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isa 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12
Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
:HeartThrob:
I think the atonement is misunderstood. The church makes it sound like God the Father could not love us unless his son Jesus was killed. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I think it was evil men who demanded a sacrifice to appease their anger. But I realize that is not what most of the church teaches or believes. I'm a heretic.
Anne
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifies.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemns? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also making intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. :HeartThrob:
Thanks for the witness rose, to what I believe is part of the heart of the Gospel. Much of it doesn't appeal to my flesh or carnal mind, much to learn and be transformed here :bigGrin:.
I know of the teaching that says Jesus isn't the Supreme Sacrifice. I've been exposed to it and looked it over. Though there may be some bits of truth in it, in its absolute sense, I believe it's a distortion of the Gospel.
I don't necessarily believe everything the churches believe or teach either. I also consider myself a heretic, but I believe any of my "heresies" need to line up with the Spirit-revealed scriptures. As for my understanding, whether that's what orthodoxy teaches or not, that's what the scriptures say.
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," 1st Peter 1:18-20
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
All at the very root of "saved by grace".
Well, that's my understanding, learning as I go.
James.
Indeed, ....
Quote
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Though I'm not sure what your point of argument is. I'm pretty sure you don't understand me.
Anne
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
--Psalm 89
Thou art...
"the rock of my salvation
Tsûr Y'shû‛âh
Quote from: Syndicated on November 20, 2009, 10:06:34 PM
He has died and taken our place in judgment so we do not have to.
Quote from: peacemaker on November 23, 2009, 02:09:41 AM
Nowhere did Jesus ever say, "It is finished, I am a substitution?"
Sounds more like the word of faith movement, not the Word of Faith of Christ who is the Resurrection, for in him we live, move, and have our being; life.
The Syncretism of Orthodox Christianity (based on fables) and mysticism, as in touching God's anointed is questionable? If, I recall correctly, one of these who literally spreads cooking oil on others (vegetable or olive oil in his sacred ceremonies), claimed that there were nine in a trinity? And, there is another that states faith is a force?
"Faith is not, believing God can, it's knowing that He will." It is trusting in him alone, not in buying or selling their merchandise.
I realize this is a sore subject for many, so will leave it at that!
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 04:20:49 AM
Yes, I agree with you. I think that many people outside the faith are turned off by all the Christian paraphernalia flashing in their faces. Crosses, oil, candles, steeples, bibles. I think that is possibly what is meant in the OT about not wearing mixed fabric garments. It is enough to clothe oneself with love and grace and truth -- to become all things to all men. People don't like religious stuff thrown around, nor do they like people who speak religiously out of habit. It is a turn off to outsiders. Aren't we supposed to be bringing those who are outside into God's throne?
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 06:28:19 PM
I also do not believe Jesus was our substitute. Otherwise, we would not still be subject to death. He was our brother who showed us the way to God is through death, even the death of the cross. In other words, we have a cross too. Jesus was the firstborn from among the dead.
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 08:58:54 PM
I think the atonement is misunderstood. The church makes it sound like God the Father could not love us unless his son Jesus was killed. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I think it was evil men who demanded a sacrifice to appease their anger. But I realize that is not what most of the church teaches or believes. I'm a heretic.
A freethinker? :mshock: :Book: No longer in bondage :whistleshake: :friendstu:
Truth is truth, regardless of:
Who perceives it, or fails to recognize it, understands it or misunderstands it, agrees or disagrees with it, believes or disbelieves it, accepts objects or rejects it, is convinced or unconvinced of it, accuses or excuses it, proves it, or seeks to disprove it, opposes, challenges, questions or doubts it, misinterprets, misconstrues, perverts or distorts it.
Whether it is spoken, written or acted out, withheld, omitted, falsified, expressed, suppressed, or unexpressed, disputed, contested or tried, covered up or uncovered, revealed or concealed.
"Truth is Truth, independently of man; we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth."
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 08:58:54 PM
I think the atonement is misunderstood. The church makes it sound like God the Father could not love us unless his son Jesus was killed. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I think it was evil men who demanded a sacrifice to appease their anger. But I realize that is not what most of the church teaches or believes. I'm a heretic.
Anne
This is a sore point for some non-christians, that God would be cruel enough to sacrifice his son for sins when he could do it another way, being all powerful. One way to look at the atonement is not an angry God sacrificing his son Jesus for for the need of stern justice, but that God came to be one of us and to suffer as one of us in the worst way.
See, how I love you! I know that you suffer so I will suffer also and heal all of you.
Quote from: Werner on November 24, 2009, 05:36:42 AM
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 08:58:54 PM
I think the atonement is misunderstood. The church makes it sound like God the Father could not love us unless his son Jesus was killed. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I think it was evil men who demanded a sacrifice to appease their anger. But I realize that is not what most of the church teaches or believes. I'm a heretic.
Anne
This is a sore point for some non-christians, that God would be cruel enough to sacrifice his son for sins when he could do it another way, being all powerful. One way to look at the atonement is not an angry God sacrificing his son Jesus for for the need of stern justice, but that God came to be one of us and to suffer as one of us in the worst way.
See, how I love you! I know that you suffer so I will suffer also and heal all of you.
This may sound odd, but I actually agree with both of you.
Quote from: Syndicated on November 03, 2009, 02:09:59 AM
I realize that we're all human and crappy things happen to everyone, whether they're Christian or not. But with so much evil going on, how do we know that the devil no longer has power in this world? Is there any scripture that backs it up?
Here it does state that Christ came to destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:8
8 "He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."Is it fully accomplished
now? I don't think so.
In Revelation 12:12 we read:
12 "Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath,
because he knows that he has a short time."His time, I believe, is short. :2c:
Quote from: Werner on November 24, 2009, 05:36:42 AM
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 08:58:54 PM
I think the atonement is misunderstood. The church makes it sound like God the Father could not love us unless his son Jesus was killed. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. I think it was evil men who demanded a sacrifice to appease their anger. But I realize that is not what most of the church teaches or believes. I'm a heretic.
Anne
This is a sore point for some non-christians, that God would be cruel enough to sacrifice his son for sins when he could do it another way, being all powerful. One way to look at the atonement is not an angry God sacrificing his son Jesus for for the need of stern justice, but that God came to be one of us and to suffer as one of us in the worst way.
See, how I love you! I know that you suffer so I will suffer also and heal all of you.
Thank you Werner. You have said well what I was unable to properly express.
I agree Werner, that's part of it.
As for the other part(s), God's not surprised by anything, so I believe He knew it would be a "sore point" for some non-Christians (and Christians) when He did what I believe the scriptures so clearly teach - place our sins upon His Son, and offer Him as the perfect Sacrifice.
There are many things about the Gospel that don't appeal to our flesh , but God, in His sovereignty and mercy,
knows how to get past all that. It's His plan, and He'll work it all for our good and His glory.
Hi all ,
God through Death showed His Glory though His Son Jesus Christ , that many would also believe
the thing is Christ did not Die in Vain it was very important and purposeful ... openly showing Gods power to raise the dead to life again and Christ given all things as the Father
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work whichyou gave me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
thanks eveyone sometimes we have to think and rethink our positions
and learn some new things and remember other things along the way :HeartThrob: