Are you a Teacher yet?

[Gary Amirault]

I watched this video today and several others of the same persuasion. It made me wonder, how many people who have embraced the message of universal salvation are able to refute this kind of video?
http://www.jesusclips.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2936a96d3c8bd1f8f2ff

Here is their home page:
http://www.jesusclips.com/

How many here feel they can watch these types of videos with someone trapped in the Hell belief and be able to teach them the truth? If not, let's get busy. "Study to show yourselves approved.

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

We are presently working on building a new mega apologetics site. We need help. Anyone interested, email gary at tentmaker.org

Thanks, Gary

[Raggedy Anne]

What a sick, sick video.  And in the comments following there were people who praised it. 
This sort of teaching is NOT uncommon in the church world.  I know because I spent a lot of time in churches from the age of 20-30 disparately wishing I could understand God's purpose and his terrible. 'unbridled' anger (as I'd been taught).  I consider these kinds of videos to be religious pornography.   I'm not sure what percentage of the populace is vulnerable to being harmed by them, but even a small number is too many.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

I dont think these people would stop preaching hell even if Jesus came down to them tonight, they are clearly evil and preaching rubbish...none of it is even scriptural, i didnt even believe that rubbish when i didnt believe in universal salvation.  What kind of a God are they worshipping?

Someone even said on utube that he downloaded the dvds of this for his children and his children loved them.  Very very worrying stuff.  Hed have been better letting his kids watch some horror movies.

[WhiteWings]

I dont think these people would stop preaching hell even if Jesus came down to them tonight, they are clearly evil and preaching rubbish...none of it is even scriptural, i didnt even believe that rubbish when i didnt believe in universal salvation.  What kind of a God are they worshipping?

Someone even said on utube that he downloaded the dvds of this for his children and his children loved them.  Very very worrying stuff.  Hed have been better letting his kids watch some horror movies.

Are those people evil? Or brainwashed to act evil?
I've read quite a few ET replies to UR video's on Youtube and elsewhere.
I always get teh impression those people don't even dare to say they rather have all saved. Just because they feel that would be attacking God. And that means hell...

[Gab]

Are those people evil? Or brainwashed to act evil?

Personally, I don't believe there exist evil people.  If the person himself or herself were evil, then what would there be to save?  Rather, I believe that we are all simply subject to cause and effect: just as a loving home is likely to raise a loving child, a fearful home is likely to raise a fearful child, and that fear will turn into exactly what we see so often.  Everyone first needs to receive love before they may understand love - some need it more than others, but I do not believe there is anyone whom love cannot touch.

I've read quite a few ET replies to UR video's on Youtube and elsewhere.
I always get teh impression those people don't even dare to say they rather have all saved. Just because they feel that would be attacking God. And that means hell...

I would say you're correct on that.  One person even basically told me that he would never believe in UR, because there was no point - as he saw it, if ET was false, then there's no problem if you believe in it, but if ET is true, then not believing in it means hell.  Therefore, he concluded, not believing in ET was too dangerous.

I just wanted to hug him and somehow show him the way things really were, but no such luck. :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Just playing the safe bet...

1 John 4:18   There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Those people usually think they are elected; but they fear loosing that election by saying the wrong thing on a forum. So they have fear.
Ok, only Father, Son and HS have perfect love; but still I wonder if that verse also is supposed to apply to people.
If so their own fear is proof they are not elected....

[RoMan838]

One person even basically told me that he would never believe in UR, because there was no point - as he saw it, if ET was false, then there's no problem if you believe in it, but if ET is true, then not believing in it means hell.  Therefore, he concluded, not believing in ET was too dangerous.

I just wanted to hug him and somehow show him the way things really were, but no such luck. :sigh:

Sometimes I think that logic is bad for religion and has little to do with truth.  The argument you are describing sounds like Pascal's wager.

How about this 'logical' conclusion:  Satan is powerful on Earth.  Therefore he can give me what I want.  God is more powerful than Satan with respect to spiritual matters.  Therefore I will follow Satan on Earth to get what I want here and now and then be saved by God through UR. A win-win situation?

A real ET type would probably go back to scripture to verify his conclusions and discredit 'mere' logic.  A real teacher would then have an opportunity to teach the truth of salvation through scripture to an interested (if misguided) student.  Perhaps you could get your hug in after that?

[HappyBoy!]

Thanks for the post Gary.  It was actually a similar video (Bill Wiess' 23 minutes in Hell) that started me on a search that led me to Tentmaker and UR.  I remember Wiess describing beings in hell that took satisfaction in inflicting pain on him.  I was still in my ET belief at the time, but could see that if this were true, then these beings were created by God with this purpose in mind.  With my eyebrow thus raised I set off on a quest.  So, ironically, videos like this can actually turn one away from the ET belief.

I was about 40 before I started this search and had lot of baggage to overcome as I'd been in fundamentalist churches since birth.  The keys to changing my beliefs were found at this site:

Age vs Evernity
Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus vs Hell
Rich Man and Lazarus paraple explanation
Many UR verses and whole passages

These are things that I now teach my children and discuss with my wife and family.

One other thing I found very helpful in tearing down my old views, and that I think is a good teaching tool, is asking questions.  Questions like, "When was hell created?".  "Was it part of what God pronounced as 'very good'?"   Questions like these will work to help someone who is open and willing to discuss it.  They help a person realize (did for me anyway) that there are problems with their views that they cannot explain.

After quite some time of studying I finally was able to visit openly with my Baptist minister about my beliefs.  He's certainly not convinced, but he did not have the answers to these tough questions and he knew it.

The love of Christ and the terrible falsehood of ET are what I think about when I get up in the morning, during quiet times and at the end of the day. 

Thanks so much Gary for all of your efforts on this site.  The study tools here have helped so much.  Thanks especially for that Lous Abbott video that helped right when I needed it.  I will continue to study and share with others.

[Nicolás]

Is this the trailer of the movie SAW V? I didn't know they were making another sequel, I didn't even watch the fourth one.

Seriously, the narrator says God has planned all kinds of torture to eternally punish the unbelievers. That is utterly sick. Gary is right guys, let's prepare ourselves to refute this kind of things.

A person who's scared of hell is more open to UR. I asked an 80-year-old Baptist pastor why would God create someone knowing that this person would suffer such a terrible fate. He said that God WASN'T TOTALLY OMNISCIENT. It is unbelievable how these people defy all laws of logic in order to defend their doctrines. If the person is not willing to reason I honestly don't know what to do.

[Raggedy Anne]

Hi Nicolas,

Agreed, so much theology is utterly crazy.  I think being subjected to death itself and having to live in a world with angry people who can take one's life at any time is punishment enough for anything any of us has done wrong.  To me, that is hell enough to pay.  And to know that those you love might be taken at any given moment to another realm - that is punishment enough as well.

Peace -
Anne

[Nancy]

hi there,

You cannot teach these people with words or persuasion because they would not listen.  They are right in their own minds and that is that.  As Christ said, 'Don't throw your pearls before swine, they will only trample on them'.

They have to become so sick of being afraid, that they will embrace the truth or they will die with that belief.  I had to have a breakdown before God could work on me. I was sick of being afraid and guilty of everything i did or thought or said, etc.

I used to feel guilt whilst watching the Alien films but at least they are not being produced in the name of Christ/truth but for entertainment.

Godbless
Nancy

[HappyBoy!]

I just posted there as "CarpetFuzz" something short and simple, but hopefully will help someone think.

I'm not much of a teacher, but I'm working on it.  I've been doing a lot of research for a letter to the Elders at much church.  I'll probably make it into a tract.

In the mean time, it's some of the scriptures from this letter I used in the post.

Please let me know your thoughts.  I want to teach as effectively as possible with few words and much scriptural support.

I agree with Nancy about some people not wanting to be taught.  The way it worked for me was that the church poisened the well of my image of God by using the eternal torment teaching.  Then they turned right around and used Paul's statements about holding fast to the faith to reinforce it.  They did this in all sincerity, but this made me afraid to question anything because I equated questioning with rebelling against God.  So, on I went covering my eyes and stopping my ears. 

Yet, here I am, believing all will be reconciled to God.  Praise our wonderful Savior!