1st Peter...How do you interpret this?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There's some good reading here, guys........ :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

I agree reFORMer

The spirit of judgement and the spirit of burning is like the sword and the light, discerning and revealing-and pruning and purging- to the end that an acceptable offering might arise as a pleasing aroma unto the Lord; one upon which He might be willing to visit the manifest presence(outpouring of the Spirit). In keeping with the original post, Judgement beginning in the center, coming out from the throne, the dwelling place of the soles of His feet, where the Father has enthroned His anointed one(psalm 2), the Head over all things to the church(Ephesians 1, Colossians 2). All for the purpose of creating a transparent vessel(2 cor 3:15-4:7) bearing the divine nature so that , "the world might know you are my disciples"(John 17). All for the purpose of increasing the reconciliation."If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me".

Rom 12:1-3  Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.  (2)  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good(according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him) and acceptable(offered in pure motive with humility) and perfect(complete and mature according to the sonship of Christ).  (3)  For through the grace given to me(the only basis for anyone to speak) I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith(so let us respect one another for Christ's sake).

These verses precede an entire chapter on the function of the body and the manifestation of the Spirit among the members.

Eph 4:1-7  Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,  (2)  with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,  (3) being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.  (4)  There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;  (5)  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,  (6)  one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.  (7)  But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

These verses precede the verses about the apostles, prophets, etc. To bad more don't read them before they run off declaring themselves the anointed of the Lord.

Mal 3:1-4  "Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.  (2)  "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.  (3)  "He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness.  (4)  "Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.

God seeks an acceptable offering. Something that will stand in the fire. "Buy of me gold tried in the fire"..... Lord, give us all a good scrubbing :). He will not work with fools or careless arrogant elitists. Humble servants with a passion for the Fathers house, thats the ticket.

Eze 44:10-11  "But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity.  (11)  "Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister to them.
Eze 44:12-13  "Because they ministered to them before their idols and became a stumbling block of iniquity to the house of Israel, therefore I have sworn against them," declares the Lord GOD, "that they shall bear the punishment for their iniquity.  (13)  "And they shall not come near to Me to serve as a priest to Me, nor come near to any of My holy things, to the things that are most holy; but they will bear their shame and their abominations which they have committed.
Eze 44:15-16  "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord GOD.  (16)  "They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to My table to minister to Me and keep My charge.

I love the way this portion in Ezekiel shows the measured and proportionate discipline of the Lord.

1Co 3:13-15  each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.  (14)  If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.  (15)  If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The axe gets laid to the roots of the trees. God is not slow concerning His promise as some count slowness. He waits on His purposes, and they come at the appointed time. The privilege of ministering in the holiest place is lost to the carnal, immature, undiscerning.
Heb 5:14  But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Rev 2:4-5  'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.  (5)  'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place--unless you repent.

I don't think their are many set on the lampstand these days.

The privilege of being the "habitation of God in the Spirit" as living stones is a precious one. I believe this not easily entered into, because God will not share His glory with any flesh, and He will not approve strange fire(mixture of flesh and spirit)- He seeks an acceptable offering, i.e, a broken and a contrite heart, to visit with His presence and manifest His beauty before the sons of men. Hence, the rewards are promised to overcomers, and I believe many of them are about being equipped to walk and work as sons. Many of the "or elses" are about falling in the wilderness, never having "obtained the promises".

Eph 1:18-19  I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe.


                                         All Glory to the Most High and to His Son Jesus, our Lord and Head



Heb 4:11-13  Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.  For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[CHB]

(Eph 3:3,4)  that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

Paul certainly proclaimed the mystery to all who could "hear", Jew and Gentile.
There has only ever been one gospel. Abel was martyred for it. Abraham preached it(Gal 3:8). Isaiah prophesied it. Jesus emanicipated it. It was purposed in the Logos, an incorruptible seed of all creation (Col 1:16-20, Heb 1:1,2), within God, before the foundation of the kosmos and the aions. It was written into the law of Moses and the feasts of Israel, and the prophets clarified it. Peter, Paul, James and John all knew it, taught it and confirmed one another in it(Gal. 2:2). It is the gospel of the glory of God in the face of Christ- a mystery unfathomable to those who would be rulers, but easy to read by little children(mature disciples of the Lamb). This one gospel is an unfolding revelation that reveals the mystery of the summing up of all things in Christ. In the gospel of the reconciliation of all, all the mysteries of the manifold wisdom of God find seamless union, harmony and fulfillment.

Our mucking it up is a product of our lack of clarity, not a matter of dispensational understanding or figuring out which gospel fits which group of people. It is a matter of seeing how the one gospel applies to all, the Jew first and then the Gentile(only because that was the order of the unfolding, not because their is a hierarchy- in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile). Even as the revelation of the mystery is enfolding all.

The Jewel has many facets. They are all glorious. There is one light within. The wisdom of that light speaks with One voice to all, drawing all into the One.

I believe this is the meaning of the parable of the pearl of great price, and the parable of the workers in the field. But that is just the way I see it. :smile:

                                                                                                Peace, John

Some very wise words here. I agree with most of what you say. I also believe there is only one gospel that started from the beginning but was revealed little by little down through the ages until God revealed it all to Paul. Paul said, this Mystery "was hid in God". That is no one knew what the end result of God's plan of salvation was. The Israelites thought that they, and those who were associated with them were the only one's who would receive salvation. When the New Covenant came into focus, Paul still thought a Gentile had to be grafted into Israel to partake of the promises and this is true for those of the New Covenant.  Paul later came to see that one didn't have to be grafted into Israel and that we Gentiles or Israel were not under any Covenant now.  Paul came to see that ALL people would be saved through Christ not Israel. Paul came to see that works was no longer needed either. The thing is, Israel is still blinded and so are the Gentiles who think they are still under a Covenant. We are free in Christ and are no longer under any laws, rules, or regulations. Most people do not see this, they think they still have to keep laws, do this, do that. Even Moses laws are still here today because there are those who still keep them. This is where the distinction comes from as eaglesway pointed out. When everyone gets to where Paul was in his final understanding then we will all be in all, until then we are divided by misunderstandings.

CHB

[Doug]

Some very wise words here. I agree with most of what you say. I also believe there is only one gospel that started from the beginning but was revealed little by little down through the ages until God revealed it all to Paul. Paul said, this Mystery "was hid in God". That is no one knew what the end result of God's plan of salvation was. The Israelites thought that they, and those who were associated with them were the only one's who would receive salvation. When the New Covenant came into focus, Paul still thought a Gentile had to be grafted into Israel to partake of the promises and this is true for those of the New Covenant.  Paul later came to see that one didn't have to be grafted into Israel and that we Gentiles or Israel were not under any Covenant now.  Paul came to see that ALL people would be saved through Christ not Israel. Paul came to see that works was no longer needed either. The thing is, Israel is still blinded and so are the Gentiles who think they are still under a Covenant.

The new covenant is the promise that God will remember our sins no more, and write his laws on our hearts. I believe in it. It is like agreeing to be included in the marriage of Christ and his saints. Those who overcome, and are found worthy to be in the New Jerusalem, the bride, will inherit all things.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

OTOH, those who work abominations are refused entry to the holy city.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

We are free in Christ and are no longer under any laws, rules, or regulations. Most people do not see this, they think they still have to keep laws, do this, do that. Even Moses laws are still here today because there are those who still keep them. This is where the distinction comes from as eaglesway pointed out. When everyone gets to where Paul was in his final understanding then we will all be in all, until then we are divided by misunderstandings.

CHB

Paul's "final understanding" was that the saints are the circumcision made without hands.

Colossians 2:10-12
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Circumcision of the flesh was the mark of the Old Covenant; circumcision of the heart is the mark of the New Covenant, and the promise that God will remember our sins no more.

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Doug

[HartleyDamboiseII]

You really should define what Gospel means to you before you tell people what Gospel means out of the Bible.

[sheila]

 what it means is just this...

  the old Adam in each of us can not be found righteous

  through 'LAW"  but was bound to sin and disobediance

and can not be perfected as such..but receives the sentence of

  death[ sin in flesh condemened]circumcision flesh


   the NEW CREATION in Christ is the true circumcision child of

  promise through the token of the SPIRIT..the PROMISED SEED

OF THE RIGHTEOUS INHERITANCE LAID UP/CIRCUMCISION OF

  the older shall serve the younger...our old man of sin..leads us

to Christ, for through the law we became aware/conscious of

our sin..which led to repentance and the gift of mercy

  HEART

[eaglesway]

There is so much to be said about covenants, I really just want to point out a few highlights, that bear upon the thread. Paul taught that the covenant ratified by the law of Moses could not supercede the covenant He had made hundreds of years earlier with Abraham. His covenant with Abraham was the covenant of friendship. Jesus said to His disciples, "I call you friends". Paul also taught, as He received from Jesus, that the law was perfect. It was the imperfection of the Israelites that nullified the covenant made through the law written in stone- because they did not receive it as written in their hearts(Isaiah 58, Ps 51).  They pursued it in an attempt to establish their own righteousness. Then Paul says, that if we are "in Christ" we are children of Abraham and heirs according to the promise. This is the promise of life to all nations in father Abraham thru faith.
    Essentially, all the covenants of God are bound up in these words, "I dwell in the high and holy place and with the one who is of a broken and a contrite heart." The "Thou shalts" of works must be swallowed up by the "I wills"of love in order to enter of the perfect law of liberty. This law of love for God and the free will offering of our lives (Romans 12:1-3) is at the core of all the promises and blessings of grace. Whatever I do becomes a free will offering(the only 'acceptable offering') when I "yield" my body(nevertheless not my will but yours be done). This is the covenant of friendship- seen in Abrahams "yielding" of Isaac, and also the covenant of sonship seen in Jesus' free will offering of His life. The overcomers promises are because of this love and sonship and friendship.

Behold, it is written of me in the volume of the book, "I come to do Thy will O God."
"Zeal for thine house consumes me."
"Nevertheless, not my will but Thine"

A son of God, and a friend of God, needs no rules or regulations enforced upon them, because they live within the koinonea of the perfect law of liberty. Those who use this as a license to pursue sin are neither friends or sons. At best they are babes laying in the mess of their immaturity, at worst they are unenlightened or as Peter described it-

2Pe 2:18-22  For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.  For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.  For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

The law of Moses was a reflection of this, or a "shadow" as Paul said. The substance is found "in Christ" where the law is fulfilled in all those who have died to sin and been "made alive" because their love for God has swallowed up the will of the flesh and the will of man and set them free into "the glorious liberty of the sons of God." As I see it, this is a covenant, ratified by the blood of Christ, and entered through the repentance and faith towards God that is the free gift of God. Continuing in friendship and sonship in the "patience of the saints" grows the manifestation and allows greater and greater participation in the ministry of reconciliation. Grace and peace, John

[HartleyDamboiseII]

 :goodpost: :goodone: :ty: :thanks: :Urock: :angelharp:

Thank YOU, It was explained well, and most that are still slaves to Sin, will not hear you...

or hear this word.

Lee Damboise II

[martincisneros]

1 PETER 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And,

"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,

what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"a

19So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

This contextually goes with some of my recent posts where I've been quoting increasingly from the book of Zechariah about His intended transference of wealth in Zechariah 2:9.  Reading the whole chapter really carefully, he's essentially saying that the secular society reaps the consequences for how Christians are treated that are doing all of this good against all odds.  And it is a narrow way for Christians to be saved, that you keep on coming again and again and again with being good, no matter what these other rascals do, including repaying evil with goodness, but he's saying there is a harvest time when the tables are turned and those that have patiently continued in doing good are given glory, honor, and an immortal legacy in this life, while there's indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon world events 'til they've bowed the knee to the glorious Gospel.  The first verse of 1Peter 4 says to arm yourself with the same mind as Christ, that if I suffer for doing good, I'm GOING TO LIKE how this turns out.  But it's not talking about afterlife, but about how things playout here and for your descendants.

Being a Jewish author, Peter is obviously being very conscious of legacy and how his descendants are treated both by God and in their worldly lot based upon what he, himself, does today.  He's saying that He's a faithful Creator, and reading on into the 5th chapter, God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud, still talking about the same thing.  So, keep every care cast upon Him, keep doing the right thing and after you've persevered in doing good, the City of Truth will be perfected, established, strengthened, and settled in their worldly lot.  He's dealing with judgments in world history and the transformation promised in 2Peter 3 where God triumphs in and over world history in world history with the transformation of this world rather than just running off with all of us to another world.

[eaglesway]

  Martin, I agree with what you are saying, with the exception being if you mean it somehow excludes rewards or benefits in the resurrection( if that is what you mean by afterlife). All of the consequences you mentioned are true in this life and to generations to come. Also, there are consequences that have ramifications in the resurrection.

Mar 12:25-27  "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.  (26)  "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'?  (27)  "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

I haven t seen any angels up close in about 35 years and even then I saw as through a glass darkly, so I can't make a lot of confident statements about the state of the resurrected, but in many places the scriptures refer to a relationship between the stewardship we exercise in time and the glory of the resurrection.

Heb 11:35  Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;

1Co 15:19-20  If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.  (20)  But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

Php 2:8-9  Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.  (9)  For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,


Php 3:10-12  that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection(exanastasis-out-resurrection) from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

I believe, we are building a heavenly body, corporately and individually, through obedience to Christ. That obedience is not the law, it is suffering the loss of all that we have been so that we might become more like Him. It is friendship with Christ, the koinonea of suffering. Renewing of the mind, conformity to the image of Christ, partakers of the divine nature, transformed into His character. "If I be lifted up...." Participating in the reconciliation.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.


Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1Co 15:36-49  You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;  (37)  and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else(what we will be does not yet appear) .  (38)  But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own .  (39)  All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.  (40)  There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.  (41)  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.  (42)  So also is the resurrection of the dead(there will be diversities of fulfillment in the resurrection) It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;(the resurrected body will be a body, imperishable, spiritual, similar to the bodies Jesus and the angels have).  (43)  it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  (44)  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  (45)  So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  (46)  However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.  (47)  The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.  (48)  As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.  (49)  Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly(when we see Him we will be like Him, meaning when we see Him face to face, in the resurrection, which has not yet appeared, the adoption as sons fulfilled in the redemption of our bodies(Ro 8:19-23).

That our earthly stewardship impacts our resurrection glory is nowhere more clearly stated than in 2 Tim

2Ti 4:6-8  For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;  in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

                                               

[martincisneros]

Yes, we are resurrected in a future age to this eternal earth, but absolutely none of the passages you cited are talking about that at all. :Sparkletooth:

I know it's unfair to leave you hanging on that without dealing with each one, but perhaps by PM, I'll get into more of what I mean to avoid a repeat of a previous argument on the boards about these bodies we now have being our eternal bodies.  The subject of our glorified bodies isn't one that I have the anointing for dealing with right now, unless He ties it to something else I'm walking out with my faith right now and am totally distracted from really being able to teach anything else 'til something else has fully materialized in my life.

But quickly with some comments in passing on the Scriptures you've mentioned 'til I'm able to get back with you with fuller comments on this:

Resurrection is a season rather than a perpetual state. Similar to the not forgiven in this age or the age after that and how many will counter about the ages after that.  Only in the resurrection is there no marriage, but there's marriage and giving in marriage in the all in all world.

"in this life only" is talking about our current situation. We're able to draw upon eonian life and recraft our lives with the promises.

Seeing Him just as He is happens in this life, or can happen in this life via the Spirit through the Written Word, although it is a from glory to glory transfiguration.

Romans 8:11 is easily a healing verse 'cause it's echoing a Proverbs 4 sentiment that the spiritually minded administer the life of the spirit to their bodies through the Written Word.

I received my crown of righteousness this past summer, or technically September 8, 2007 at 8pm, but that's a whole subject that I won't get into on the boards at length although I'm always dropping teases about it throughout the boards. Young's will translate that 2Timothy 4 passage "Presence" rather than appearing.

I know I must tread softly until I've given proper exegesis on all 4 chapters of Philippians, but Philippians 3's resurrection is Paul coming out of the prison that that was written from, and all 4 chapters bare it out that contextually he's not making an eschatalogical statement, but is metaphorizing his own sufferings as the sufferings of Christ and that as Christ came out of that grave, he'll likewise be seen by the Philippians with their own physical eyes though in a Roman prison, he's obviously likened to being in his grave and nothing he learned from Gamaliel has anything to do with getting him out; can't fall back on his Jewish credentials to come out of that one.  It'll have to be by faith in the Gospel and giving thanks and singing it out in other tongues.