Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
"We" are not a denomination, and I thought by being here I was free from all that. I will still enjoy your posts. :friendstu:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
Are you more for ET or Annihilation?
Is there a UR denomination? Really?
Please! Your belief has a name "UR." When it's named it is. :laugh:
""We" are not a denomination, and I thought by being here I was free from all that. I will still enjoy your posts. :friendstu:"
I do not believe you are, I really do enjoy your posts as well :friendstu:
"Are you more for ET or Annihilation?" How can I answer a question like that? No, why should I answer a question like that?
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 06:19:02 AM
Laz: "We" are not a denomination, and I thought by being here I was free from all that. I will still enjoy your posts.
Micah: I do not believe you are...
Do you mean you don't think I'm free of denominationalism? Do you think we are all in lockstep here? I note that many things are discussed here besides Universal Reconciliation. I dunno, maybe I have missed some things in your many posts.
I am bumfuzzled :Chinscratch:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 23, 2014, 06:08:47 AM
"We" are not a denomination, and I thought by being here I was free from all that. I will still enjoy your posts. :friendstu:
My aim is is to become part of a denomination/sect that teaches the complete and total truth....
What Jesus believes/does was/is also a sect.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 23, 2014, 06:10:43 AM
Is there a UR denomination? Really?
Of course. Any denomination you belong to is ur denomination, especially if you come from the south. :laughing7:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
The Universalist Church of America was a Christian Universalist religious denomination in the United States that consolidated with the American Unitarian Association to form the Unitarian Universalist Association, but they are no longer exclusively Christian. There are Christian fellowships within that denomination though. When I've looked online for local like minded folks to fellowship with, the closest thing I've found to what I believe is a Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship in another town, but folks who believe in universal reconciliation can be in any denomination. I used to be a Catholic when I was a kid, and I know there are folks in that church who don't follow all the rules from Rome especially when it comes to birth control. I tried some Protestant churches, but these days I don't go to church because I think scripture is sufficient. I think some folks belong to churches because they were either raised in them or their churches provide a source of socializing and moral stability for them, but that doesn't mean they're committed to everything that denomination stands for. I belong to no church or denomination. I believe universal reconciliation because it is the truth in scripture.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_of_America
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/univart.html
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth….1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
Great post.
I know sectarianism when I see it. Sectarianism is based on a doctrine or a group of doctrines. UR is a doctrine.
I do not mind being labeled a sectarian for a doctrinal stance on UR.
A good word study is "sect"........comes from the word Hairesis............used 9 times in the NT.
1 Corinthians 11
19 For there must be also heresies(sects) among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Paul said there MUST be heresies........they have to exist..........they help us differentiate between right and wrong.
ET= God only saves a few and tortures the rest.
ED=God only saves a few and annihilates the rest.
UR=God saves all through Jesus Christ, the savior of the world.
You must choose.
Or not, lots of people never know that they can pick and choose what doctrines they want to believe. It is the privilege of gaining knowledge.
I don't perceive believing in universal reconciliation as a denomination or a sect because I think it is just a fuller understanding of what Christ accomplished on the cross that is not taught to church folks because it doesn't conform to church doctrine of torture in fire forever, but it is clearly stated in scripture. So it is the doctrine of scripture not of a sect. That's why I believe it. I don't believe any of the creeds of the church. Scripture is the only creed I need.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
Quote from: eaglesway on October 23, 2014, 08:37:17 AM
I am bumfuzzled :Chinscratch:
But the question is, are you a pre-bamfuzzled or a post-bamfuzzled? I don't associate with the pre-bamfuzzled. That's heresy.
..what did i hear the other day that related to this..? :Chinscratch: if we become unyielding in a belief we stop the flow of the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth.. something like that..
Of course, as far as UR itself, I think most here are pretty unyielding in that belief, because we are convinced God has revealed it to us and we believe it's what his word says.. perhaps it's a fine line..
Oh, I remember! It was about the Book of Revelation, John Crowder (Chowder?) on one of his youtube videos mentioned many folks are too rigid in their interpretation of it, which i'd have to agree, and it becomes therefor eschatological doctrine, and there really is no interpretation, but I thought, that also can become a too rigid eschatological doctrine! :laughing7:
GOD BLESSINGS
I believe in the same manner Gods plan for all to be saved is real
But I certainly understand Bro Micah here and am also believing there is only one way to worship GOD and that is in Spirit and truth , the Father is seeking theses types now and has since the SHEPHERD WAS STRUCK scattering the lost sheep to their own places
IF we Believe this Word of God as truth we know there is ONE GOD and Jesus Christ whom will be gathered into HIM ONLY , HE who does not gather with me scatters abroad , those are the robber and thieves that have their own agenda and teachings
and there is ONE JESUS CHRIST and no divisions in ChristHoly City set on a Hill /ruler Him the Head authority , but a thousand divisions outside of Christ and in the world
The SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and it is the testimony of Jesus Christ says its so we find in the old testimony of God in ZECH 13
AND IN THE NEW MATTHEW 26:31
The Shepherd Is Killed
7 "·Sword, hit the [ Awake, Sword, against my] shepherd.
·Attack [ ...against] the man who is my ·friend [associate],"
says the Lord ·All-Powerful [Almighty; of Heaven's Armies; T of hosts].
"·Kill [Strike] the shepherd,
and the sheep will scatter [Matt. 26:31; Mark 14:27],
and I will ·punish [L turn my hand against] the little ones."
8 The Lord says, "Two-thirds of the people
through all the land will die. They will be ·gone [struck down; L cut off],
and one-third will be left.
9 The third that is left I will ·test with [L bring into the] fire,
·purifying [refining] them like silver,
testing them like gold.
Then they will call on ·me [my name],
and I will answer them.
I will say, 'These are my people,'
and they will say, 'The Lord is our God.'"
31 Jesus told ·his followers [ them], "Tonight you will all ·stumble in your faith [fall away; desert] on account of me, because it is written in the Scriptures:
MATT 26
'I will ·kill [strike] the shepherd,
and the sheep [L of the flock] will ·scatter [be scattered]' [Zech. 13:7].
32 But after ·I rise from the dead [ I am raised], I will go ahead of you into Galilee."
IF you ever done a study of Galilee
. Galilee."circuit " I recommend it highly , we will meet the Lord Jesus Christ in that place , every lost sheep will be found by the Lord our Shepherd there if we obey and wait upon the Lord there for Him
its a beautiful meaning spiritually speaking all power of God is through our Lord Jesus Christ His name has power there is no name under heaven by which you must be saved and the Holy Spirit will teach you all things concerning Him
this is where we give up on the earthly Messiah and kingdom of our own making and Gods good pleasure concerning His plan is what is best for all , its means to roll , everything you believed in is rolled up like a scroll etc .. so much to consider , we go from the earthy into the heavenly KINGDOM of GOD
Galilee
The name Galilee comes from a Greek variation of the Hebrew name Galil, and that name is identical to one adjective and one noun גליל (galil) that were derived of the verb גלל (galal), meaning to roll:
Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
גלל גיל
None of the consulted sources mentions anything about a relation between the roots גלל (galal) and גיל (gil), but their forms are quite obviously related and their meanings are similar as well:
גלל I
The verb גלל (galal I) is all about rolling; it means to roll some object on, upon or away. In a figurative sense it is used in ideas like to whirl or dazzle and even to roll oneself onto the Lord, meaning to put one's trust in Him (Psalm 22:8) or to commit oneself to Him (Psalm 37:5, Proverbs 16:3). When this verb is used for physically rolling something away or somewhere else, the object is usually stones (Genesis 29:3, Joshua 10:18).
This root-verb's enormous array of derivations:
The masculine noun גל (gal), meaning heap or pile (Joshua 7:26), a heap of ruins (Isaiah 25:2), or, in case of water: wave or billow (Jeremiah 5:22).
The masculine noun גיל (gel), meaning dung (Job 20:7, Ezekiel 4:12).
The feminine noun גלה (gulla), meaning bowl, basin or spring (Joshua 15:19, Zechariah 4:2). Note that this noun is spelled the same as the verb גלה (gala).
The masculine noun גלל (galal), meaning dung (1 Kings 14:10).
The adjective גליל (galil), meaning a turning or folding (1 Kings 6:34).
That same word used as masculine noun: גליל (galil), meaning cylinder or rod (Esther 1:6), or circuit or district (Isaiah 8:23).
The previous noun made feminine: גלילה (gelila), meaning circuit, boundary or territory (Joshua 4:4, Ezekiel 47:8).
The noun גלול (gillul), meaning idols (Ezekiel 22:3, 1 Kings 15:12). This word occurs only in plural. Scholars can't decide whether this noun came from the idols shapes (round/curvy?) or whether they were considered "dung-things" or crap, so to speak.
The masculine noun גלגל (galgal), meaning wheel (Isaiah 5:28) or whirlwind (Psalm 77:18).
The masculine noun גלגל (gilgal), meaning wheel (Isaiah 28:28 only).
The feminine noun גלגלת (gulgoleth), meaning skull or head. Note that the noun פנימ (panim), meaning face, comes from the verb פנה (pana), meaning to turn. Also note that in Biblical times the head did not hold the same regard as it does to us today. To us the image of a skull represents death or danger, but that symbolism is not Biblical. In Biblical times, the head was also not regarded as the seat of the mind or the intellect, but rather as the most public part of the body, comparable with the door of a house or city. The head was seen as the seat of individual personality, or rather a person's public profile. It was the part of a person with which that person engaged others and the world around him. One consumed food via the head, listened to others, spoke to others and viewed others, but the head was not seen as a repository or reservoir of anything. Our word occurs a mere 13 times in the Bible, half of which in the context of literally a head- (skull-) count (Exodus 38:26, Numbers 1:2, 1 Chronicles 23:13). In Exodus 16:16, the Israelites are commanded to gather one omer of manna per "skull" (something similar occurs in Exodus 38:26 and Numbers 3:47). In Judges 9:53, a certain woman drops a mill stone on Abimelech's head, thus crushing his skull and with it his personhood, in 2 Kings 9:35 we find what's left of Jezebel after the dogs are done with her: her hands and feet and her skull, and in 1 Chronicles 10:10 Saul's skull ends up in the temple of Dagon. Note that all gospels emphasize that Jesus died on Golgotha (or Calgary in Luke, which means the same), which is obviously highly significant when one realizes that the name Golgotha comes from our word גלגלת (gulgoleth), and what that word meant to the gospel's audience.
The feminine noun מגלה (megilla), meaning scroll (Jeremiah 36:28, Ezekiel 3:1).
גלל II
There's a second root-verb גלל (galal), which doesn't occur in the Bible, but in cognate languages it means to be great in rank. Its sole derivative is the masculine noun גלל (galal), meaning account. This word only occurs in conjunction with the preposition ב (be), meaning in, to form the meaning of "on account of" (Genesis 39:5, Jeremiah 11:17).
גיל
The root-verb גיל (gil) yields words that have to do with a circular motion, usually expressing joy or celebration (Isaiah 65:19; Ps 21:1). It "most often refers to rejoicing at God's works or attributes," says HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.
The derivations of this verb are:
The masculine noun גיל (gil), meaning rejoicing (Psalm 45:16, Isaiah 16:10).
The feminine noun גילה (gila), also meaning rejoicing (Isaiah 65:18).
The masculine noun גיל (gil), meaning a circle or age. The phrase בן גילו (ben gilu) literally means 'son of circle' and denotes someone born at the same time, contemporary.
If you see the spiritual message in this you are truly blessed !!!
I always think it's funny to do so because I think the church is guilty of what it's accusing me, but I gladly admit that I'm a heretic. I refuse to conform to church doctrine because the church does not conform to the word of God. I think the first believers who were Jewish, and their proselytes, were considered to be a sect of Judaism, but, even though the Lord taught Peter a valuable lesson with a vision and the conversion of Cornelius, I think there was an important reason why Paul was converted outside Israel and separated by the holy spirit to evangelize the nations. I don't think Jesus came to establish a new "religion" though. I think he came to speak the truth and to die for the sins of the whole world. I also think his resurrection is the evidence of God's power to overcome death which is the clue to what the ultimate plan is. I am concerned with the Hebrew scriptures mostly as a historical reference for the "Christian faith" even though that is a loaded phrase since Rome corrupted it. I think what has become "Christianity," which I tend to call the church, is just the tradition of man based on intentional mistranslation of scripture thereby invalidating the word of God just as the Lord told the Pharisees and scribes they did, and it was all developed as such by the Roman Empire for the purpose of political expediency. That's why I say the church is the world religious organization that is distinct from the body of Christ. Despite the fact that I believe Jesus Christ is the word of God, the image of God, and the only-begotten son of God, I don't think I'm a member of a Jewish sect just because Yeshua HaMashiach is the yet to be realized Jewish Messiah or a member of a Christian sect just because I happen to believe scripture that his sacrifice on the cross is the means through which all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled with God. I simply consider myself to be an unaffiliated, nondenominational, nonsectarian believer of the evangel of God given to us in the inspired written word of God. Besides believing in universal reconciliation, there are other categories that you might try to squeeze me into, but I think the only one I would maybe be comfortable with is Bible believing. I say maybe because that depends on what Bible. If you want to say I'm in a Jewish sect because the early Jewish believers were considered to be such, I'd have to say that I've never considered myself to be Jewish by birth or conversion. If you want to say I'm sectarian because the church considers me to be a heretic, then I'd have to say those are the same crazy folks who tell me I'm going to be tortured in fire forever for not agreeing with them, and I say that's wacko. So you can call me what you want according to how you see me, but that doesn't really make me what you think I am. I think I'm just a guy who believes God is the savior of all mankind, and all on earth and in the heavens will eventually be reconciled with God through Christ's blood on the cross, simply because that is what the word of God says.
It is real interesting that Christians "out there", friends and family want to know:
What Church do you go to?
What denomination are you?
Are you a Christian?
Are you a follower of Christ?
All of these are really irrelevant IMO and I feel I do not need to answer, because they all lead to follow up questions that get you nowhere.
I now simply say I believe God is the saviour of all humanity. I know that still will not satisfy but let it be thay way.
I will now only pursue a question from the outside if I see a sincere desire to understand and I hope I can respond in wisdom for the hope that is in me. It is however frustrating to try to help others see God's true plan, and it boils down to God working with a persons mind. I can of myself do nothing, as the Word tells us.
:2c:
Quote from: joeteekay on October 23, 2014, 09:47:22 PM
It is real interesting that Christians "out there", friends and family want to know:
What Church do you go to?
What denomination are you?
Are you a Christian?
Are you a follower of Christ?
All of these are really irrelevant IMO and I feel I do not need to answer, because they all lead to follow up questions that get you nowhere.
I now simply say I believe God is the saviour of all humanity. I know that still will not satisfy but let it be thay way.
I will now only pursue a question from the outside if I see a sincere desire to understand and I hope I can respond in wisdom for the hope that is in me. It is however frustrating to try to help others see God's true plan, and it boils down to God working with a persons mind. I can of myself do nothing, as the Word tells us.
:2c:
:thumbsup: Amen Bro Joe , my own sentiments exactly !! :flowerred:
we never want to go further than the one pushing us for an answer , they may not get to hear what they wanted nor expected to hear :winkgrin:
I have a dear sis that is loving , but she asked me and I told her and she doubts and now never calls me anylonger and before she asked me about my faith she called me often :sigh:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 23, 2014, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 23, 2014, 06:08:47 AM
"We" are not a denomination, and I thought by being here I was free from all that. I will still enjoy your posts. :friendstu:
My aim is is to become part of a denomination/sect that teaches the complete and total truth....
What Jesus believes/does was/is also a sect.
I am of the sect of Paul which he was accused of belonging before the council of the Jews :LH:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
Thank you for the scripture Micah., savoring it :HeartThrob:
Me three, I'm not sold on UR
trust, I'm still trying to digest all of what is being proclaimed by UR's
but I still have many questions
I'm wondering what the "set guidelines" are for the "UR denomination" because all I know is that universal reconciliation is mentioned once in scripture that I remember.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
The only "UR denomination" I know of is the Unitarian Universalists that may have some "set guidelines" even though I hear they're considered to be very liberal about their beliefs. In fact I think most church folks would probably be shocked at what is allowed in that church. I've heard even Wiccans are welcome in some congregations because they are not exclusively Christian which is why some folks who believe in universal reconciliation go to a lot of trouble to distinguish themselves from that church. But out of all the choices I've seen online of what's out there for local fellowship, I would probably choose a Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship that's in another town kind of close to me if I felt the need to go to a church to get together with some relatively like minded folks, but I don't. I would actually prefer an informal get together in a home, but I settle for the virtual fellowship on this forum because I know the body of Christ is a spirit body that doesn't necessarily require coming together in the flesh. I feel like I'm fellowshiping with the Father, Jesus, and Paul when I read scripture, and I feel like I'm fellowshiping with folks here when I'm on the forum. I think anybody who has witnessed the various disagreements among folks here would realize there aren't any "set guidelines" here other than what scripture says.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
When an occasion happens spontaneously with other people in the flesh that presents an opportunity for fellowship or evangelizing, I go for it, but it's not something I actively seek anymore. I think the Lord provides the time and place when it's necessary, and we just have to know the truth to be ready to offer a rational defense of the faith. I'm definitely not into any "denomination" or "guidelines" though, and I think the only good thing about "sects" is how the word heard can get a good laugh sometimes when confused with "sex."
Quote...and I feel like I'm fellowshiping with folks here when I'm on the forum. I think anybody who has witnessed the various disagreements among folks here would realize there aren't any "set guidelines" here other than what scripture says.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
When an occasion happens spontaneously with other people in the flesh that presents an opportunity for fellowship or evangelizing, I go for it, but it's not something I actively seek anymore. I think the Lord provides the time and place when it's necessary, and we just have to know the truth to be ready to offer a rational defense of the faith. I'm definitely not into any "denomination" or "guidelines"...
Tom, I hear you, and I'm right there with you., A myriad times I can relate after the fact as to how the Lord used me to witness to others, but that does not absolve me from witnessing before the congregation
It is those that know one best, who can testify about one's faith, whether we are truly or not., and if our faith is to be a testimony for Christ, then surely we are to be present, not only when opportunity presents itself, but so too at every moment standing shoulder with every member of the body
I am but a slave in faith of the Lord Christ my God, and as such, I must never neglect the sheep, for I am one of them, and to think otherwise I would set myself apart from the congregation of Saints
thus i implore all of us to continue in being witness to Christ, both on-line as well as in true presence
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 24, 2014, 02:45:05 AM
Quote...and I feel like I'm fellowshiping with folks here when I'm on the forum. I think anybody who has witnessed the various disagreements among folks here would realize there aren't any "set guidelines" here other than what scripture says.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
When an occasion happens spontaneously with other people in the flesh that presents an opportunity for fellowship or evangelizing, I go for it, but it's not something I actively seek anymore. I think the Lord provides the time and place when it's necessary, and we just have to know the truth to be ready to offer a rational defense of the faith. I'm definitely not into any "denomination" or "guidelines"...
Tom, I hear you, and I'm right there with you., A myriad times I can relate after the fact as to how the Lord used me to witness to others, but that does not absolve me from witnessing before the congregation
It is those that know one best, who can testify about one's faith, whether we are truly or not., and if our faith is to be a testimony for Christ, then surely we are to be present, not only when opportunity presents itself, but so too at every moment standing shoulder with every member of the body
I am but a slave in faith of the Lord Christ my God, and as such, I must never neglect the sheep, for I am one of them, and to think otherwise I would set myself apart from the congregation of Saints
thus i implore all of us to continue in being witness to Christ, both on-line as well as in true presence
...until you start proclaiming universal salvation in that presence. Then you will get kicked out of their sight. I know because it happened to me.
My brother Seth, I believe you., I know that such conflict happens in the congregation, but I'm here to tell you that it is not all as it seems to be. When you're a part of the congregation and they know you, who you are, where you come from, and what you are like, then it is not as if you're a walk-in and they know nothing about you and you command no respect., I say this because I love my brethren, and keep them tight to my heart, and while they may not see or understand as I do, neither do I judge them nor I cast them aside in my understanding of things., to love our brothers and sisters is a commandment., it is not optional as to whether they agree with us or not, but it is a trial that one must endure, and it is a duty for one to witness., you don't have to compromise; you just have to have Christ in your intent, and with Him in you, you will be whole; thus others will see that in you, and they too will believe the truth
Brother, I think you are assuming that it is the universal salvation believers as the ones who do not want fellowship or are the ones judging. You don't have to do much more than affirm the teaching of universal salvation and it will be YOU being judged, not them. You can do it in the nicest most respectful way possible, but it's not the attitude that offends them. The doctrine is what offends them. Anyone who has any doubt about that, try it.
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:11:59 AM
Brother, I think you are assuming that it is the universal salvation believers as the ones who do not want fellowship or are the ones judging. You don't have to do much more than affirm the teaching of universal salvation and it will be YOU being judged, not them. You can do it in the nicest most respectful way possible, but it's not the attitude that offends them. The doctrine is what offends them. Anyone who has any doubt about that, try it.
With all due respect, Seth
You're preaching to the choir
I have fessed up that I was long gone from the church, so in that I must insert that part of that was for the same reasons you state; thus, I have tried it.
Having said that, I must say that part of the blame -per say- falls on me, for not having the desired love and faith, and simply wishing to convert others to my understanding.
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 24, 2014, 02:45:05 AM
Quote...and I feel like I'm fellowshiping with folks here when I'm on the forum. I think anybody who has witnessed the various disagreements among folks here would realize there aren't any "set guidelines" here other than what scripture says.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
When an occasion happens spontaneously with other people in the flesh that presents an opportunity for fellowship or evangelizing, I go for it, but it's not something I actively seek anymore. I think the Lord provides the time and place when it's necessary, and we just have to know the truth to be ready to offer a rational defense of the faith. I'm definitely not into any "denomination" or "guidelines"...
Tom, I hear you, and I'm right there with you., A myriad times I can relate after the fact as to how the Lord used me to witness to others, but that does not absolve me from witnessing before the congregation
It is those that know one best, who can testify about one's faith, whether we are truly or not., and if our faith is to be a testimony for Christ, then surely we are to be present, not only when opportunity presents itself, but so too at every moment standing shoulder with every member of the body
I am but a slave in faith of the Lord Christ my God, and as such, I must never neglect the sheep, for I am one of them, and to think otherwise I would set myself apart from the congregation of Saints
thus i implore all of us to continue in being witness to Christ, both on-line as well as in true presence
I'm glad to speak the truth "in true presence" as you say, but it's not necessary to do that in a church. In fact, I think communication, especially of a spiritual nature, is most effective on a personal level. Even the hierarchal set up of the church with one man dictating doctrine to the congregation discourages good communication like you can have one on one or in a small circle of acquaintances.
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 24, 2014, 03:30:58 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:11:59 AM
Brother, I think you are assuming that it is the universal salvation believers as the ones who do not want fellowship or are the ones judging. You don't have to do much more than affirm the teaching of universal salvation and it will be YOU being judged, not them. You can do it in the nicest most respectful way possible, but it's not the attitude that offends them. The doctrine is what offends them. Anyone who has any doubt about that, try it.
With all due respect, Seth
You're preaching to the choir
I have fessed up that I was long gone from the church, so in that I must insert that part of that was for the same reasons you state; thus, I have tried it.
Having said that, I must say that part of the blame -per say- falls on me, for not having the desired love and faith, and simply wishing to convert others to my understanding.
That's good that you have that level of self awareness to understand what you could have changed. But even if you had the love and faith, i don't think it matters as to the end result. Personal opinion of course.
The only universal salvation believers who can attend church in peaceful fellowship are the silent ones, at least silent on that matter.
On this forum, UR stands for universal reconciliation.
Universal reconciliation is NOT what we are.
Universal reconciliation is what we believe.
I have never heard of a denomination called "Universal Reconciliation."
Micah,
So, never mind the labels.
Do you believe in universal reconciliation?
Do you believe that all humanity will eventually be saved?
Do you believe in hell? or annihilation? or something else?
Theses are fair questions, are they not? - surely you don't mind answering them.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
Ronny to Micah:
UR,is not a denomination/sect. Now the independent Baptist,Calvinistic type of church, that I once was a member of,that was a manmade denomination/sect.
Love that scripture you quoted from 1 Titus 2:3,4. :-) For God does will all people to be saved,to be made right with God,to be put in a right relationship with God. And that's what God did for me,when I was 16 years old :-) God saved me,God put me in a right relationship with God. :-) And that by God letting me know that I was lost, bringing me to repentance towards God and taking me on,to faith in Jesus Christ. God did all of that for me and it's only been about 4 and a half years ago,that I came to see the truth,that what God did for me and some other people,before all is said and done,God will do the same for everyone! :-) Now couple the scripture you quoted,where God wills all people to be saved. Couple that with Ephesians 2:11. "In whom we also have obtained an inheritence, being predestinated according to the purpose of him (God) who works all things after the counsel of His own will." And what we see is,if God wills a thing to happen,then that will surely come about.
Quote from: JBerton on October 24, 2014, 07:43:23 PM
Micah,
So, never mind the labels.
Do you believe in universal reconciliation?
Do you believe that all humanity will eventually be saved?
Do you believe in hell? or annihilation? or something else?
Theses are fair questions, are they not? - surely you don't mind answering them.
Micah,
So, never mind the labels.
Do you believe in universal reconciliation?
Do you believe that all humanity will eventually be saved?
Do you believe in hell? or annihilation? or something else?
Theses are fair questions, are they not? - surely you don't mind answering them.
Isa 55:11
So is My word that goeth out of My mouth, It turneth not back unto Me empty, But hath done that which I desired, And prosperously effected that for which I sent it.
Luk 15:4 `What man of you having a hundred sheep, and having lost one out of them, doth not leave behind the ninety-nine in the wilderness,
and go on after the lost one, till he may find it? 1Ti 2:4
who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
Rev 20:14 and
the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death; Best I can give you my friend. :dsunny:
I think "universal reconciliation" is simply a phrase that describes what is said in the following scripture because everything on earth and in the heavens is the universe.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
"UR" is not something "I am" either, brother. It is just a scriptural concept that many folks on this forum believe to be true even though some of us disagree on other things. It is not a denomination or sect. Christ's blood on the cross is for all creation because creation and reconciliation have the same scope. Church doctrine teaches only part of creation will be reconciled either because only some have been chosen or because some have not earned it. I think one of the reasons there is confusion about this is that indeed only some have been chosen for "eonian life," not "eternal life," before the disruption of the world according to God's will not because of anything we've done, but that doesn't exclude those not chosen for eonian life from reconciliation and salvation from death at the consummation of the eons. That confusion can begin to be done away with by reading an accurate translation of scripture because "eonian" life or death is not the end of the story, and reconciliation through Christ with God is just one of the things that will happen to all because all will be justified, reconciled, vivified, and subjected to God at the consummation of the eons when God will be "all in all."
"for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens." (Colossians 1:16-20)
"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/TheGrandestTruth.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/BelievingAndUnderstanding.html
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:41:56 AM
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 24, 2014, 03:30:58 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:11:59 AM
Brother, I think you are assuming that it is the universal salvation believers as the ones who do not want fellowship or are the ones judging. You don't have to do much more than affirm the teaching of universal salvation and it will be YOU being judged, not them. You can do it in the nicest most respectful way possible, but it's not the attitude that offends them. The doctrine is what offends them. Anyone who has any doubt about that, try it.
With all due respect, Seth
You're preaching to the choir
I have fessed up that I was long gone from the church, so in that I must insert that part of that was for the same reasons you state; thus, I have tried it.
Having said that, I must say that part of the blame -per say- falls on me, for not having the desired love and faith, and simply wishing to convert others to my understanding.
That's good that you have that level of self awareness to understand what you could have changed. But even if you had the love and faith, i don't think it matters as to the end result. Personal opinion of course.
The only universal salvation believers who can attend church in peaceful fellowship are the silent ones, at least silent on that matter.
Tom, like you, I am a believer that Christ on the cross is for all past, present and future., how He does it, remains the questions in me. Having said that, I do believe that there is a tendency to separate oneself from the congregation. not because they throw you out or silence you, but because we are -i dare say-unloving in the way we approach the sociability in the church., we are not in the first century to be heading in bulls horns first and trying to change the whole structure of it as mere men/women, for it is Christ who draws those to Him., one by one, few by few, and not us so that none of us have anything to boast about other than Christ!
I really don't think it matters what century it is. If someone people share the truth in wrath and selfishness, that's between them and God. But if anyone shares the truth at all, even in love and kindness, the clock is ticking.
If it's a matter of being forced to stay silent to secure fellowship, that is where you and I would need to agree to disagree.
I believe any one serving and worshiping the Father in Spirit and truth is in a good place and can only get better
no matter where they are or have been or , are going
the FATHER IS SEEKING THEM !! HE IS LOOKING WITH THOSE 7 EYES SPIRITS IN THE EARTH REV 5
Then I saw a Lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered, but it was now standing between the throne and the four living beings and among the twenty-four elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the sevenfold Spirit of God that is sent out into every part of the earth.
john 4
...22"You worship what you do not know;
we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. [ but it was coming IN to Jesus Christ to be the LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD FOR ALL MANKIND ... ]
23"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth;
for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. God has done it all we wait on Him to finish His work in us
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 25, 2014, 10:31:53 PM
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:41:56 AM
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 24, 2014, 03:30:58 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 24, 2014, 03:11:59 AM
Brother, I think you are assuming that it is the universal salvation believers as the ones who do not want fellowship or are the ones judging. You don't have to do much more than affirm the teaching of universal salvation and it will be YOU being judged, not them. You can do it in the nicest most respectful way possible, but it's not the attitude that offends them. The doctrine is what offends them. Anyone who has any doubt about that, try it.
With all due respect, Seth
You're preaching to the choir
I have fessed up that I was long gone from the church, so in that I must insert that part of that was for the same reasons you state; thus, I have tried it.
Having said that, I must say that part of the blame -per say- falls on me, for not having the desired love and faith, and simply wishing to convert others to my understanding.
That's good that you have that level of self awareness to understand what you could have changed. But even if you had the love and faith, i don't think it matters as to the end result. Personal opinion of course.
The only universal salvation believers who can attend church in peaceful fellowship are the silent ones, at least silent on that matter.
Tom, like you, I am a believer that Christ on the cross is for all past, present and future., how He does it, remains the questions in me. Having said that, I do believe that there is a tendency to separate oneself from the congregation. not because they throw you out or silence you, but because we are -i dare say-unloving in the way we approach the sociability in the church., we are not in the first century to be heading in bulls horns first and trying to change the whole structure of it as mere men/women, for it is Christ who draws those to Him., one by one, few by few, and not us so that none of us have anything to boast about other than Christ!
I don't know why you addressed me with a quote from Seth, but here's my reply. I think "the congregation" is a relative concept, and I think it is the church that has "separated" itself from the body of Christ by contradicting scripture rather than me separating myself from the "congregation." I'm still in the congregation, the assembly, the ecclesia, the body of Christ, but the church is not where it is due to the false doctrine being preached. It's not the institution or the building that we should be concerned with. It's the poor misguided people who are still trapped in the church that we need to communicate with, but most of them will just condemn you for speaking the truth. You're making a false assumption about being "unloving in the way we approach the sociability in the church." I love my church brothers and sisters, but I reject the doctrine of their church. So I communicate with church folks wherever whenever, but I don't go to church anymore for the same reason I don't go to bars anymore. I have no reason to go because I disagree with the spirit of the environment, but I communicate with folks who go to church and folks who go to bars on neutral turf. You said, "I am a believer that Christ on the cross is for all past, present and future. How He does it, remains the questions in me." If you said that to explain why you're "not sold on UR" as you say, I'm curious what you meant by that.
Quote from: Tom on October 25, 2014, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
"UR" is not something "I am" either, brother. It is just a scriptural concept that many folks on this forum believe to be true even though some of us disagree on other things. It is not a denomination or sect. Christ's blood on the cross is for all creation because creation and reconciliation have the same scope. Church doctrine teaches only part of creation will be reconciled either because only some have been chosen or because some have not earned it. I think one of the reasons there is confusion about this is that indeed only some have been chosen for "eonian life," not "eternal life," before the disruption of the world according to God's will not because of anything we've done, but that doesn't exclude those not chosen for eonian life from reconciliation and salvation from death at the consummation of the eons. That confusion can begin to be done away with by reading an accurate translation of scripture because "eonian" life or death is not the end of the story, and reconciliation through Christ with God is just one of the things that will happen to all because all will be justified, reconciled, vivified, and subjected to God at the consummation of the eons when God will be "all in all."
"for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens." (Colossians 1:16-20)
"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/TheGrandestTruth.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/BelievingAndUnderstanding.html
""UR" is not something "I am" either, brother. It is just a scriptural concept...."
For me Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World is a scriptural TRUTH,[NO CONCEPT] and labeling and naming it, as all religions and beliefs have a want to do(imo) puts it right there in a sect or denomination. I believe and embrace Gary's work, the work he has been given to enlighten the hearers and readers of the Word. The Truth that Jesus Christ carried out the will that is the good and acceptable will of the Lord God so that ALL men will be saved, needs no label or name like other religions, IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK, SEE IT :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 26, 2014, 03:03:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 25, 2014, 06:55:01 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 23, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
Just to let it be known, I, me, personally am not of the UR denomination. I have found out that all sects and denominations have their set guidelines, UR is no different. I like this forum. I learn on this forum. I just have no need or want to adjust to another denomination/sect.
This is a sound Word, and on this foundation is what I find a Truth....1Ti 2:3 for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
as with Gal 2:19 for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; Gal 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness be through law--then Christ died in vain.
"UR" is not something "I am" either, brother. It is just a scriptural concept that many folks on this forum believe to be true even though some of us disagree on other things. It is not a denomination or sect. Christ's blood on the cross is for all creation because creation and reconciliation have the same scope. Church doctrine teaches only part of creation will be reconciled either because only some have been chosen or because some have not earned it. I think one of the reasons there is confusion about this is that indeed only some have been chosen for "eonian life," not "eternal life," before the disruption of the world according to God's will not because of anything we've done, but that doesn't exclude those not chosen for eonian life from reconciliation and salvation from death at the consummation of the eons. That confusion can begin to be done away with by reading an accurate translation of scripture because "eonian" life or death is not the end of the story, and reconciliation through Christ with God is just one of the things that will happen to all because all will be justified, reconciled, vivified, and subjected to God at the consummation of the eons when God will be "all in all."
"for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens." (Colossians 1:16-20)
"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/TheGrandestTruth.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/BelievingAndUnderstanding.html
""UR" is not something "I am" either, brother. It is just a scriptural concept...."
For me Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World is a scriptural TRUTH,[NO CONCEPT] and labeling and naming it, as all religions and beliefs have a want to do(imo) puts it right there in a sect or denomination. I believe and embrace Gary's work, the work he has been given to enlighten the hearers and readers of the Word. The Truth that Jesus Christ carried out the will that is the good and acceptable will of the Lord God so that ALL men will be saved, needs no label or name like other religions, IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK, SEE IT :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Here's your scripture truth.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
What do you think that means?
Doesn't the label "Christian" come right out of the Bible?
Twice. And.....?
I think this is, to a certain extent, quibbling. Using the term UR does not make someone 'denominational". It is an identifying acronym for a scriptural truth. Whether or not a person decides to use that acronym does not make them more or less free from the roots of sectarianism, which is, to put simply- divisiveness. One person uses the acronym as a communication point for the truth that Micah has stated about the salvation of all. Another person thinks it is too much "the label" to be effective in communicating the truth. I say so what, let each person be free from the judgments of others and go about their business- the Father's business :o)
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 26, 2014, 03:06:39 AM
Twice. And.....?
Well there seems to be this anti labelling thing, but even the Apostles seemed fine to label.
Quote from: Seth on October 26, 2014, 03:25:15 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 26, 2014, 03:06:39 AM
Twice. And.....?
Well there seems to be this anti labelling thing, but even the Apostles seemed fine to label.
That makes me think of the sign which reads, "DO NOT READ THIS SIGN," or the page printed with the words "THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK," or the label labelled "THIS IS NOT A LABEL." God certainly did a lot of ranting and raving, and calling "a spade a spade" in the pages of the Bible. He never hesitated to label things as they were, or to mince words.
:Oops: I will not leave my :2c: again.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 26, 2014, 05:18:52 AM
:Oops: I will not leave my :2c: again.
No offense intended
The words "universal reconciliation" are not found in scripture, but these are.
"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
The words "universal reconciliation" are simply used to describe what is stated in that verse.
Quote from: Seth on October 26, 2014, 09:06:53 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 26, 2014, 05:18:52 AM
:Oops: I will not leave my :2c: again.
No offense intended
No offence either way. Seth, I just wonder(and I stand corrected 3 times the name Christian is written) Why did not Paul, or Peter, or Luke not address those they preached and ministered to a Christians? When we read the opening epistles of Paul, his greeting made no mention to Christians, nor does Peter, James, or John. It just seems strange, to me anyway that the name Christian did not get more use in what we read in the Bible.
I had read somewhere, years ago, that the believers were first called Christians in Antioch by the Romans as a matter of humor and jest. True or not, 1 Pet. 4:16 may be speaking to that..." and if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; and let him glorify God in this respect;" :dontknow:
I agree about denominationalism. To me, wanting to be a denomination would be like wanting the school kids to let us play on their field. It's like a need to be accepted. And it will always be seen as a cult belief anyway. But about labels, that I cannot control. And if someone labels me as a UR as a derision and insult, even though UR is truth, it's a badge of honor to me. Label me with the truth, I don't mind. That they think it's an insult is to their own reproach.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 26, 2014, 03:17:05 AM
I think this is, to a certain extent, quibbling. Using the term UR does not make someone 'denominational". It is an identifying acronym for a scriptural truth. Whether or not a person decides to use that acronym does not make them more or less free from the roots of sectarianism, which is, to put simply- divisiveness. One person uses the acronym as a communication point for the truth that Micah has stated about the salvation of all. Another person thinks it is too much "the label" to be effective in communicating the truth. I say so what, let each person be free from the judgments of others and go about their business- the Father's business :o)
:iagree: This is just how I feel about this part of the thread. But other than that there are other things being discussed here that I am enjoying a lot.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: bushy on October 26, 2014, 08:08:43 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on October 26, 2014, 03:17:05 AM
I think this is, to a certain extent, quibbling. Using the term UR does not make someone 'denominational". It is an identifying acronym for a scriptural truth. Whether or not a person decides to use that acronym does not make them more or less free from the roots of sectarianism, which is, to put simply- divisiveness. One person uses the acronym as a communication point for the truth that Micah has stated about the salvation of all. Another person thinks it is too much "the label" to be effective in communicating the truth. I say so what, let each person be free from the judgments of others and go about their business- the Father's business :o)
:iagree: This is just how I feel about this part of the thread. But other than that there are other things being discussed here that I am enjoying a lot.
I can agree as well[very much so] with EW, still in my opinion, it is not the believer who embraces what is called here UR, it is the religious-theological and even the social culture system that dominates the labeled box or the box labeled. So far I believe(imo) UR is the least belief denominated. I just don't find the closeness of denomination comfortable. But this is just me, personally. :Peace2:
Quote from: eaglesway on October 26, 2014, 03:17:05 AM
I think this is, to a certain extent, quibbling. Using the term UR does not make someone 'denominational". It is an identifying acronym for a scriptural truth. Whether or not a person decides to use that acronym does not make them more or less free from the roots of sectarianism, which is, to put simply- divisiveness. One person uses the acronym as a communication point for the truth that Micah has stated about the salvation of all. Another person thinks it is too much "the label" to be effective in communicating the truth. I say so what, let each person be free from the judgments of others and go about their business- the Father's business :o)
Quibbling. :doh:
I was just thinking the same thing. :Chinscratch:
Now
there's an accurate label. :laugh:
Thanks EW. :thumbsup:
Quibbling. :doh:
"Quibbling" or "squabbling" or whatever, I can't help think it's funny to hear "UR" called a denomination. Unitarian Universalists are the only denomination I can think of labeled "universalists," but they tell you themselves that they're not exclusively Christian. I think "UR" is just the description of one verse of scripture that shows the scope of God's grace through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, and that's Colossians 1:20. I don't think those who believe it are trapped in a denomination bound by creeds like church folks are. I understand the desire not to be in a denomination, but I think it's unnecessary to worry about that with "UR" because I think there are some folks who believe it that are in various real denominations. Despite the fact that most of us here agree about "UR," you can see by the diverse opinions on this forum that we all disagree about other things. I think that's probably why there is no real "UR" denomination that is exclusively Christian and may be why the Universalist Church thought it needed to merge with the Unitarians. I personally don't want to belong to any church, denominational or non-denominational, because I think they're all based on Roman creeds that contradict scripture. I prefer to just study an accurate translation of scripture for spiritual edification and communicate with fellow believers wherever whenever, often here on this forum, and, being raised in the Roman Catholic Church and then spending some time in the Protestant Church, I'm familiar with denominational and non-denominational churches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_of_America
Not sorry for my OP, but I am glad all the quibbling has ceased. I learned that believing a truth such as ......
2Co 5:18 And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,
2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
2Co 5:21 for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.
Is not a denomination but an admonition. :dsunny:
Thank you all. :HeartThrob:
Everybody has a different perspective, brother, but I understand why you resist denominations. I think they exist in the church because it is not the body of Christ. I think denominations must sadden the Lord who told us we are one.
"And I have given them the glory which Thou has given Me, that they may be one, according as We are One" (John 17:22)
"thus we, who are many, are one body in Christ, yet individually members of one another" (Romans 12:5)
"For we, who are many, are one bread, one body, for we all are partaking of the one bread." (1 Corinthians 10:17
"For even as the body is one and has many members, yet all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, thus also is the Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:12)
"in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28)
Quibble, quibble, quibble.
quib·ble
ˈkwibəl/Submit
noun
1.
a slight objection or criticism.
"the only quibble about this book is the price"
synonyms: criticism, objection, complaint, protest, argument, exception, grumble, grouse, cavil; More
2.
archaic
a play on words; a pun.
verb
verb: quibble; 3rd person present: quibbles; past tense: quibbled; past participle: quibbled; gerund or present participle: quibbling
1.
argue or raise objections about a trivial matter.
Last thing I would want to do is quibble about quibbling ;o)
Thank goodness :trampoline:
The word "quibble" is starting to sound funny.
Yes, it's a verbal dribble... :laughing7:
I like to scribble "quibble" while whittling a fiddle.
Of what do you whittle a fiddle? :dontknow:
A single block of wood
Now where is the ryhme in that riddle? :rolllol:
Let's quibble about the fiddle riddle. :violin:
I'm too busy giving my Tribbles vittles to nibble.
Won't even try to settle the quibble with a kibble nibble for vittles cause it seems like a patch of nettles. How'd I do? :laugh:
:laughing7:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 01, 2014, 10:25:42 PM
Won't even try to settle the quibble with a kibble nibble for vittles cause it seems like a patch of nettles. How'd I do? :laugh:
:bowing:
I think you're all doing great with your improvised quibbling. I'm just being an amused spectator though because I've gotten to the point in my life that I have a hard enough time just trying to talk straight without accidentally tripping all over my tongue.
Dribbling.
I haven't gotten that bad yet though.
I believe in UR, becuase God chose to reveal it to me as Truth. I did nothing to deserve receiving His truth, because I would have never have chosen the life path He put me on to bring me to it. I am not wise enough, not brave enough and not strong enough on my own to endure it.
But I know it's the Truth and it's Biblical when the Bible is translated correctly. I would never deny the Truth for any reason.
I wish the whole world would be able to accept and understand it now. Sometimes I feel like sharing verses, or the facts of the mistranlated words in many Bibles. Sometimes I want to scream about how evil and harmful the doctrine of ET is........but He wants me to wait on Him. To be humble and to only follow His lead, in the things I say and do. And I what to follow Him, because He is in control and He knows what's best, always. Without Him, I could do more harm than good. :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Only read the first page of this, so forgive me if I'm repeating, but UR is a denomination, but not the UR WE are talking about. There is a denomination of so-called "universalists", however, upon close examination of their beliefs you quickly find they are more interested in including everyone of every belief into some sort of "as long as they love me too they're included," type of inclusion of all things fleshly.
This site is dedicated to the belief that God will save all because He says He will, and discussing the "nuts and bolts" of just how that might be accomplished with the inclusion and right division of ALL scripture. My :2c:....Blessings....
And PS. I'm not a Universalist either, but I do fully believe that all will be saved when all is said and done, by GOD.
I think none of us are worthy, but God has chosen some to be channels of truth to the world. I also think that we don't have to be too "wise...brave...strong...to endure it." I think we simply have to believe and be willing to share God's truth with those who need it. God chooses the "ignoble and contemptible things of the world...so that no flesh at all should be boasting in God's sight." I agree it could be frustrating to present the obvious truth to people only to be rejected especially if you do it more than once to some, but we have to remember that God chose some to have faith "before the disruption of the world" and will call them out of this world into the ecclesia, the body of Christ. I think we just need to be content to plant the seed, and let God make it grow. I know we want everybody to believe the truth when we get it because it is such a blessing, but I think God only wants some to be saved in grace through faith even though all will eventually be saved at the consummation of the eons. And I think there are many believers who just won't receive the revelation of universal reconciliation due to the intense programming of church doctrine, but they're still believers even though they don't understand the full scope of the evangel. So I'd say we should try not to get frustrated with the way things are going because God is "operating all in accord with the counsel of his will."
I think many folks new to the concept of universal reconciliation mistakenly assume it's all about the Unitarian Universalist denomination because that's the one that's happening now even though it's a result of a union of the Univeralist Church and the Unitarians in 1961 from what I've read. Unfortunately that denomination has welcomed many philosophies that aren't Christian including even Wiccans. They do have subgroups that are exclusively Christian supposedly. I considered checking one out awhile back but decided not to because I'm really not interested in any kind of hierarchal church structure. I was only interested because I can relate to both their universalist and unitarian beliefs, but I'm not into passively accepting the philosophy that there are many ways to God because I believe Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life. So I figure, if that's what their main organization believes, it ain't for me. I'd also rather just fellowship with folks in a less formal environment such as in homes, on the street, in the park, or online. Here's a link to some info about the subject, but I'm not endorsing or necessarily even agreeing with all of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_of_America
If there was a denomination that actually was just straight up scripturally oriented about universal reconciliation without all the other nonsense in the Unitarian Universalist Church, I might check it out, but I've got to say that I've been an exchurcher for quite awhile. And I don't know of any such organization other than the ecclesia, the body of Christ, which is a global spiritual body independent of any worldly church organization. So I guess I'll just hang out here with the rest of you heretics.
:cloud9: Exactly. There is one in Indy that has a "medium" who leads it. They are "anything goes" mentality, and the Word plainly states it DOESN'T. Blessings....
It's unfortunate that many think of Christian Universalism as Unitarian Universalism when the two are vastly different
The first is the Truth and is Scriptural we are only saved by the sacrifice of Jesus. He will draw all unto Himself. The other is unBiblical as in anything goes.
Yeah, I think the two denominations that got together to form the Unitarian Universalists both had some good ideas back then, but somehow somebody along the way convinced them they needed to include every kind of crazy idea there is out there. And now it's just gotten to be regular old polytheism.
caffus, card, tom :2thumbs:
absolutely on unitarians..believe anything - or nothing. and be fully accepted in the fellowship, including "ministry".
Gary added 'not UUA' to the link tab of the site, which i appreciate. :thumbsup:
Someone used to post here who attended a UUA "church", and signed off with "Don't Forget Love". Well, I'd add "Don't forget the truth, including and especially the cross". :2c:
Yes, of course we should be loving to everyone, but never deny the Truth we all will and must come to God through Christ.
amen
Some of the early Christian Universalist ministers were really very "right on" and glorified Jesus Christ as Lord and validated the scriptures(mid to late 1800's). There had to have been quite "fall" among them to arrive at what the UUA is today, and that fall must have taken place over the 100 years before their merger with the American Unitarian Association in 1966. I believe that is one of the reasons why we have to maintain the standard between these two views clearly and emphaticly. Jesus Christ is Creator and Lord of the Universe and every "salvation" will be through submission to the deliverance that is in His name as the only begotten son of God.