Do you guys realize that you have gotten sucked into the empty discussion that destroy your peace joy and righteousness... the kingdom of heaven.
Lee100 obviously isnt even remotley interested in a meaningful and spiritually enlightening conversation.
1 Timothy 6
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Quote from: Dallas on August 23, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
Do you guys realize that you have gotten sucked into the empty discussion that destroy your peace joy and righteousness... the kingdom of heaven.
Lee100 obviously isnt even remotley interested in a meaningful and spiritually enlightening conversation.
1 Timothy 6
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Agreed Dallas.
But to those who have been in constant communication with lee 100 it's because he asks the questions, so they give the answers. But I agree that he is not willing to learn; he has come to give US the truth. I gave him one post stating that he will be humbled under God's love, and that's that. I move on. If he even remotely seemed willing to learn, we could tell by now. Now is just not his time. But I don't think to many of us our losing our peace over it; those who are debating with him are pretty mature in their teachings and journeys with God. But a heads up with the spirit of what's going on is good. Everyone should read this post.
Grace and peace,
Brandon
Quote from: Dallas on August 23, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
Do you guys realize that you have gotten sucked into the empty discussion that destroy your peace joy and righteousness... the kingdom of heaven.
Lee100 obviously isnt even remotley interested in a meaningful and spiritually enlightening conversation.
1 Timothy 6
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Well, not really, your reply here shows that you have seen what he has really done, so many more who read and never reply will to.
Actually, I have seen many people here , including me, who might seek to be abrasive towards another member come into agreement as one once CogLee started in.
In my opinion, he has made me stronger and made me see the pettyness of arguments I have had with others.
Everything happens for a reason COGLEE has done Gods work, just not the work he thinks he is doing.
Oh Ya You are so right...
Like you said, when ready
Brought to Christ
It should be clear to every thinking child of God that God does not use the same means and measures with every man to bring them to Christ. It would be very simple to fill this book with instance after instance from Holy Scripture which loudly and unmistakably proclaim the nature and purposes of all God's judgments from the banishment of Adam and Eve from Eden's fair garden in Geneses to the blazing inferno of the lake of fire in Revelation. But I would point you briefly to one plain and positive illustration which proceeded from the lips of our Lord Jesus Christ. "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, to be drunken; the lord of that servant will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be BEATEN WITH FEW STRIPES. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" (Lk.12:45-48).
In this parable it is plain that Christ is teaching degrees of punishment. The Christ teaches that those who have committed things worthy of many stripes, will receive many, and those who were ignorant, and with lesser light did not know or understand the will of God, yet did things worthy of stripes, shall receive but few. Here is set forth in the plainest of language not only varying degrees of punishment, but also varying lengths of time for the punishment. What ever the judgment typified by the 'stripes,' it takes longer to inflict many stripes than just a few, so it should not be difficult to understand that some men are punished for a longer period of time than others. The Word of God declares that the Judge of all the earth shall do right, and I believe that He shall do just that. As our children were growing up we did not have one stock punishment for all their misdeeds. We suited the punishment to the disobedience, yet we haven't granted the same privilege to God! We have said that everyone is to receive the very same common punishment, hell fire, and that that judgment would endure for the very same length of time for all---eternity ! How, then, I ask, can some be beaten with "many stripes" and others with "few stripes" if all receive the same punishment of endless hell fire ?
How foolish can we be ! It is always extremely foolish to hold to a doctrine that clearly contradicts the Word of God.
I can almost feel the holy wrath, I can almost hear the stinging invective of some who think they have me now--- "Ah," they say, "but Jesus is not talking in this parable about the condition of the LOST; He is teaching about the punishment of disobedient SERVANTS OF GOD!" And you are so very right, my friend! We never want to forget it. Nothing could be plainer, for Jesus prefaces His remarks with these significant words: "Who then is that FAITHFUL AND WISE STEWARD, who his lord shall make ruler over all that He hath" (Lk. 12:42-44 ).
There would be no answer to your argument; I would be forced to throw up my hands and admit that these words of our Lord apply only to the correction and discipline of servants of the Lord, and have absolutely no bearing whatever on the judgment of unbelievers, or on hell, or on the lake of fire, were it not for one significant statement that appears in verse fort-six. The Lord says, "The Lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for Him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R-S." Do you see that? Ah, the punishment of this SERVANT is appointed his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS! The punishment, therefore, of this servant of the Lord and the punishment of the unbelievers is equal, identical, of the same intencity, for same length of time, the very same punishment, and that punishment is? MANY STRIPES! Not unending stripes; not everlasting whipping; not eternal torment under the hands of the tormentors; but—many stripes. And of what precise judgment speaks our Lord when He commands "appoint him his portion with the unbelievers? What is the "portion of the unbelievers?" Hear it! "But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING... shall have their part(portion) IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE" (Rev. 21:8 ). The "portion of the unbelievers" is the lake of fire. And not only are the unbelievers judged there, but the unfaithful servants of God are dealt with there, too! And, by Jesus' own words this punishment is called "many stripes," and is shown to be limited in its duration and corrective and REMEDIAL IN ITS NATURE.
Just what do you mean ... The Lake of Fire By J. Preston Eby. Part 7 pg.s9-11 typed by Lee Damboise II
Hi Lee Damboise,
I think it will be very cool one day to have the capacity to understand the means by which we all came to Christ and know every molecule of detail.
Especially so I will want to see CogLee's path and how his venture into this forum was indeed a part of his discovery of the truth.
I agree, although I believe he will be lost a little longer and we may never know who he really is. IF he ever comes back to us his pride may never let him tell us it was him.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 23, 2009, 03:27:57 AMWell, not really, your reply here shows that you have seen what he has really done, so many more who read and never reply will to.
Actually, I have seen many people here , including me, who might seek to be abrasive towards another member come into agreement as one once CogLee started in.
In my opinion, he has made me stronger and made me see the pettyness of arguments I have had with others.
Everything happens for a reason COGLEE has done Gods work, just not the work he thinks he is doing.
These are the reasons, among others, why the Holy Spirit has told me to tolerate the irritating/irrational fly for the time being that's trying to self croak in the ointment. You nailed it, Paul. I've been carefully following Him regarding whom to ban and when and for how long. Other mods have had the itchy finger for the ban button as well, but He hasn't allowed it to go that far yet 'cause in the meantime, it's lots of irrational posts being posted that we can later add all of the Scriptural refutations to, all of the Word studies to, et. al. Some of the best teaching happens around here for either a season during or a season immediately following a Peacetroll-type having wallowed for a while with their religion.
The UR teaching is a 2500 year old teaching that began [full force] thru the Holy Spirit after the return from the Babylonian captivity as a medicine to all of the ET nonsense that incorporated into parts of Judaism and later Christianity, and it even spilled over from the Hebrews to some of the Greek mystics of those earlier centuries, to where the critics of UR often don't know the chicken/egg situation with regards to the Greeks having gotten a version of it from Judaism 'cause the assumption among historical revisionists is that it was only among Bible believers from the 3rd century onwards, though a more careful and a more systematic study reveals it to go back, in Judaism, [which later became Christianity,] to the time period immediately following the Babylonian Captivity BECAUSE of the Scriptures and an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that began at that time.
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 23, 2009, 03:34:25 AM
Oh Ya You are so right...
Like you said, when ready
Brought to Christ
It should be clear to every thinking child of God that God does not use the same means and measures with every man to bring them to Christ. It would be very simple to fill this book with instance after instance from Holy Scripture which loudly and unmistakably proclaim the nature and purposes of all God's judgments from the banishment of Adam and Eve from Eden's fair garden in Geneses to the blazing inferno of the lake of fire in Revelation. But I would point you briefly to one plain and positive illustration which proceeded from the lips of our Lord Jesus Christ. "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, to be drunken; the lord of that servant will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be BEATEN WITH FEW STRIPES. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" (Lk.12:45-48).
In this parable it is plain that Christ is teaching degrees of punishment. The Christ teaches that those who have committed things worthy of many stripes, will receive many, and those who were ignorant, and with lesser light did not know or understand the will of God, yet did things worthy of stripes, shall receive but few. Here is set forth in the plainest of language not only varying degrees of punishment, but also varying lengths of time for the punishment. What ever the judgment typified by the 'stripes,' it takes longer to inflict many stripes than just a few, so it should not be difficult to understand that some men are punished for a longer period of time than others. The Word of God declares that the Judge of all the earth shall do right, and I believe that He shall do just that. As our children were growing up we did not have one stock punishment for all their misdeeds. We suited the punishment to the disobedience, yet we haven't granted the same privilege to God! We have said that everyone is to receive the very same common punishment, hell fire, and that that judgment would endure for the very same length of time for all---eternity ! How, then, I ask, can some be beaten with "many stripes" and others with "few stripes" if all receive the same punishment of endless hell fire ?
How foolish can we be ! It is always extremely foolish to hold to a doctrine that clearly contradicts the Word of God.
I can almost feel the holy wrath, I can almost hear the stinging invective of some who think they have me now--- "Ah," they say, "but Jesus is not talking in this parable about the condition of the LOST; He is teaching about the punishment of disobedient SERVANTS OF GOD!" And you are so very right, my friend! We never want to forget it. Nothing could be plainer, for Jesus prefaces His remarks with these significant words: "Who then is that FAITHFUL AND WISE STEWARD, who his lord shall make ruler over all that He hath" (Lk. 12:42-44 ).
There would be no answer to your argument; I would be forced to throw up my hands and admit that these words of our Lord apply only to the correction and discipline of servants of the Lord, and have absolutely no bearing whatever on the judgment of unbelievers, or on hell, or on the lake of fire, were it not for one significant statement that appears in verse fort-six. The Lord says, "The Lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for Him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R-S." Do you see that? Ah, the punishment of this SERVANT is appointed his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS! The punishment, therefore, of this servant of the Lord and the punishment of the unbelievers is equal, identical, of the same intencity, for same length of time, the very same punishment, and that punishment is? MANY STRIPES! Not unending stripes; not everlasting whipping; not eternal torment under the hands of the tormentors; but—many stripes. And of what precise judgment speaks our Lord when He commands "appoint him his portion with the unbelievers? What is the "portion of the unbelievers?" Hear it! "But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING… shall have their part(portion) IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE" (Rev. 21:8 ). The "portion of the unbelievers" is the lake of fire. And not only are the unbelievers judged there, but the unfaithful servants of God are dealt with there, too! And, by Jesus' own words this punishment is called "many stripes," and is shown to be limited in its duration and corrective and REMEDIAL IN ITS NATURE.
Just what do you mean … The Lake of Fire By J. Preston Eby. Part 7 pg.s9-11 typed by Lee Damboise II
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Dallas on August 23, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
Do you guys realize that you have gotten sucked into the empty discussion that destroy your peace joy and righteousness... the kingdom of heaven.
No one should feign being surprised with your observation; this has been occurring since the beginnings of these Forums.
It oftentimes isn't so much that a lot of the discussions here are 'empty'; it's more that a lot of spiritually near-empty people are choosing to participate in the discussions.
It's quite astonishing, if the truth be told.
I was a member here more than four years ago and returned for a quick visit only last week. I quickly realized that things haven't changed much during my absence.
It's the same o'l parrots noisily screaming into their delusional mirrors.
For all the outcry against the teachings about Eternal Torment in here, some apparently think it's quite appropriate to torment and slander others in here. For all the boasting about the love of God, it seems to be scantily evidenced in here.
This might be explain why the majority of people eventually move on from here.
Yes, there are some spiritually empty people in here who believe it's godly thing to accuse and slander those who might fail to follow after their supposed enlightenment. Knowing little about the protective sensitivities of God over His children, they instead prefer to heap scorn and ridicule. It's a very shameful thing for anyone to witness; especially between persons who are all belonging to the same family of God.
One would assume that since we so loudly boast of God's patient love and mercies towards us, that everyone in here would be eager to share this same sentiment with others.
I think everyone should ask themselves this question before posting: "Would Jesus approve and enjoy the reading my words?"
'cause He's reading them anyway :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 23, 2009, 03:27:57 AM
Actually, I have seen many people here , including me, who might seek to be abrasive towards another member come into agreement as one once CogLee started in.
In my opinion, he has made me stronger and made me see the pettyness of arguments I have had with others.
Everything happens for a reason COGLEE has done Gods work, just not the work he thinks he is doing.
Man, you took the thoughts right out of my head and typed them out for me.
Thanks bro. Ya saved me a step.
woo hoo! :icon_flower:
Quote from: Gilbert on August 23, 2009, 04:18:09 AM
I think everyone should ask themselves this question before posting: "Would Jesus approve and enjoy the reading my words?"
I ask that sometimes and have taken very personally similar words to me when someone thinks I am wrong, but then after your post I realized some things.
Good for them.. they had the courage to stand up and be counted for that they believe. I have never said for CogLee to leave I have never asked for anyone to be banned, that's not my call.
I want CogLee to stick around, but if you think I have to roll over and play possum because of some misplaced idea of who Jesus is read Matthew 23 and see how Jesus talks to those who take the position of spiritual superiority over another in condemnation.
What I see is someone like CogLee spreading damnation and I won't keep silent and do not wish that anyone else do either.
You stand up and be counted Gilbert, God's got our backs, perhaps your words may come to good use if a situation deems to be silent and others deem to make our noise and voices heard.
Thank you for your post.
Quote from: Dallas on August 23, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
Do you guys realize that you have gotten sucked into the empty discussion that destroy your peace joy and righteousness... the kingdom of heaven.
Let me start answering that with the words of Shadow...
Quote from: Shadow on August 22, 2009, 08:27:05 PM
Quote from: lee100 on August 22, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
I have dropped so many scripture bombs that have totally desrtoyed and evaporated UR and you and others are reaching so far to build Ur back up instead of accepting truth.
On the contrary, I've seen the opposite, I've personally seen your POV being successfully challenged and debunked by quite a few posters on there
From what I've personally seen, you've tried to find any loophole and means possible to try make your doctrine stick and your fallacious reasoning and arguments have been shot down one by one, if fact I was closer to the conditionalist position before you came on board to challenge the UR position, the arguments you've started and the points you've made which have successfully debunked have actually inclined myself further towards the UR position than ever :icon_flower:
It seems to me the empty discussion was full and rich for Shadow. And I think it was so for many members/guests.
And that incudes me. I surely did notice CoG/Lee wasn't here to learn. If only because many posted warnings even before I found the threads. For those that are light years ahead of me on the UR path, such threads may be a waste of time. But like Shadow I'm the one you see in the far distance behind you. And such threads only strengthen my armor.
The only negative thing is this. I was amuzed by his threads. I'm not so sure that's good because I certainly would not be amuzed if someone started 50 thread to slander my earthly father....
I have a couple more questions.
First, this idea about being reconciled to God. What does it mean? Paul literally begs people ["I beseech you"] to be reconciled to God. Why would he do that if he were not important? And, if it is important, why is it important? Is he trying to save them from some disaster in this life or the next?
Second, this idea about inclusion. What does it mean? Does it mean I have to sit next to a Budhist in a Christian church and honor his religion as equal to mine? Does it mean that anything goes in terms of the morality outlined in the Bible? That is, if everyone is going to be saved, what is the reason to behave one way over another? And, if everyone is going to be saved, what right do I have to condemn one behavior over another? Wouldn't that be construed as being intolerant, a charge the Christian church is always suffering under?
The Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked. We are cautioned to pick our company carefully. For what congress does light have with darkness? There is nothing in common. And things always tend to devolve to the lowest common denominator.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 23, 2009, 03:27:57 AM
Actually, I have seen many people here , including me, who might seek to be abrasive towards another member come into agreement as one once CogLee started in.
In my opinion, he has made me stronger and made me see the pettyness of arguments I have had with others.
The enemy of your enemy is your friend.... :Peace2:
Quote from: Molly on August 23, 2009, 10:14:55 AMThe Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked. We are cautioned to pick our company carefully. For what congress does light have with darkness? There is nothing in common. And things always tend to devolve to the lowest common denominator.
Sooo true, Molly. I loved your whole entire post, and this part right here about things tending to devolve to the lowest common denominator is one of the Words of the Lord right now, as He's been indicating to quite a few ministers that I know of, some of them even Pentecostal, that the Lord's been indicating for them to be a part of His move to RAISE the Standard, and among other reasons, one of His main reasons being that the next generation tends to lower it a bit. So, if you want to build a legacy, or what translations of Romans 2 will tend to call "immortality," then you've got to really shine brighter than a constellation in the sky under the best of observation conditions.
I've been sensing the momentum of the Lord behind me stoking the flames again for me to push so far past anything I've ever attained in previous years to where I'd eventually make my previous years look like nominal denominationalism by comparison or in contrast. Sooo many people are still such babes in Christ that you can scarcely bring up "going on to perfection, not tearing down the foundations of..." without stirring up everybody's remaining condemnation issues, pitty parties, lack of revelation of His passionate insatiable love for each of us, etc. But a vast company of those who are finally and fully the express image of their Lord and Saviour per Luke 6:40, Ephesians 5:1, 1John 4:17, et. al., must come to the forefront that can walk as Jesus walked without these limitations of the sin consciousness per Hebrews 10, 1John 2, and Ephesians 3 'cause it's what His Blood paid for per Ephesians 1, 1Peter chapter 1, and 2Peter chapter 1.
Quote from: martincisneros on August 23, 2009, 12:15:18 PMa vast company of those who are finally and fully the express image of their Lord and Saviour per Luke 6:40, Ephesians 5:1, 1John 4:17, et. al., must come to the forefront that can walk as Jesus walked without these limitations of the sin consciousness...
I have no idea why I neglected to mention Colossians 2:6-7 and Colossians 3:17 that's been SCREAMING AT ME in recent months and turning me every which way but loose.
:cloud9: Hey Martin........love that Sun smilie.......... :thumbsup: Blessings....
Quote from: Molly on August 23, 2009, 10:14:55 AM
Second, this idea about inclusion. What does it mean? Does it mean I have to sit next to a Budhist in a Christian church and honor his religion as equal to mine?
No, it means that if your beliefs are not only for your own self preservation then you will see Gods child next to you.
QuoteDoes it mean that anything goes in terms of the morality outlined in the Bible?
Nope, I have a friend that can't figure out some of his problems and they are primarily caused by his behavior. I tell him that he is reaping the consequenses of his actions and he gets mad at me, and doesn't speak to me for a while. If I ever give up on him, ever, then my faith is meaningless.
Quote
That is, if everyone is going to be saved, what is the reason to behave one way over another?
Well, I know I am saved, but I also know that doesn't prevent me from helping someone else to live a good life. To not have cared how my children act because of the thought that they are saved after they die is simply ridiculous because I would aid in their suffering in this life and perhaps beyond.
Quote
And, if everyone is going to be saved, what right do I have to condemn one behavior over another? Wouldn't that be construed as being intolerant, a charge the Christian church is always suffering under?
Because the journey is important too. The Christian church is not suffering because of it's supreme morality, it is suffering because of it supreme hypocrisy.
Quote
The Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked. We are cautioned to pick our company carefully. For what congress does light have with darkness? There is nothing in common. And things always tend to devolve to the lowest common denominator.
Tell Jesus that since he hung around the "undesirables". But did Jesus become them, or love them in truth so that when they reaped what they sowed, they could see him?
Quote from: Cardinal on August 23, 2009, 04:23:10 PM
:cloud9: Hey Martin........love that Sun smilie.......... :thumbsup: Blessings....
Makes me think of you.Yep a cheerful avatar. :bgdance:
Quote from: PaulTell Jesus that since he hung around the "undesirables". But did Jesus become them, or love them in truth so that when they reaped what they sowed, they could see him?
Yes, he did hang out outside the camp. But, after he healed them, he told them to
go, and sin no more. In other words, he was pulling them up to his level rather than the other way around.
I notice that the average radio preacher has been moving on from the end times and are starting to preach the sons of God.
Quote from: Molly on August 23, 2009, 09:40:12 PM
Quote from: PaulTell Jesus that since he hung around the "undesirables". But did Jesus become them, or love them in truth so that when they reaped what they sowed, they could see him?
Yes, he did hang out outside the camp. But, after he healed them, he told them to go, and sin no more. In other words, he was pulling them up to his level rather than the other way around.
Certainly, but the bible is also full of reality that people ignore. Paul explained that despite being converted and touched by Jesus he still did things he did not want to do.