Yo! Lee100, Jesus said all will be saved in the Gospels

[Tony N]

Joh 12:32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth,
shall be drawing all to Myself."

Joh 1:29 On the morrow he is observing Jesus coming toward him,
and is saying,
"Lo! the Lamb of God Which is taking away the sin of the world!"

Joh 4:42 Besides, to the woman they said that "No longer because of your speaking are we believing, for we ourselves have heard Him, and we are aware that this truly is the Saviour of the world, the Christ."

Joh 6:51 I am the living Bread which descends out of heaven. If anyone should be eating of this Bread, he shall be living for the eon. Now the Bread also, which I shall be giving for the sake of the life of the world, is My flesh."

Joh 3:16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."
Joh 3:17 For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him."

It is not the "may" of doubt that the world may be saved through Him but "may" is in the subjunctive mood.

I have a pen in my hand.
I loose my grip on the hand that it may be falling.
The falling of the pen is dependent upon my loosing it.
It will fall should I loose my grip on it.

Likewise the saving all the world was dependent upon God sending His Son into the world. Since He did, the world must be saved.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen........Blessings......

[lee100]

tony,

I guess you did not read the other thread, Ill post again.

The verse most often used to denote Jesus' universalist claim is John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can "draw" another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:

[Tony N]

tony,

I guess you did not read the other thread, Ill post again.

The verse most often used to denote Jesus' universalist claim is John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can "draw" another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:

Concerning the rich young man . . . in the first place, Jesus hadn't been exalted out of the earth at that point in time.

In the second place, getting the rich young man to separate himself from his riches in order to follow Jesus is very different from Jesus actually drawing all to Himself.

In the third place, the drawing of all is dependent upon Christ being exalted out of the earth signifying His death. Since He did die, all will be drawn. Just because all are not drawn in this eon or in that which is impending does not negate Jesus' promise to draw all.

Jesus also prophecied the fall of Jerusalem. It happened. Just as that happened, thus will all be drawn to Him or He is a false prophet. That is something I'm sure you would wish to avoid calling Him, right?

[willieH]

willieH:  Lee100 --  :dontknow:

You are so easy to debunk, it is getting BORING --  :boredom:

tony,

I guess you did not read the other thread, Ill post again.

The verse most often used to denote Jesus' universalist claim is John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can "draw" another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you.

This is the "SAVING YOURSELF" teaching of Orthodoxy...  :thumbdown:

For Orthodoxy notes that one must "ACCEPT CHRIST" (a completely unbiblical claim which does NOT appear in Scripture), and WITHOUT this "ACCEPTANCE"... one is therefore, ...NOT SAVED... :mnah:

Accordingly, Orthodoxy thereby FALSELY notes their "decision" to "accept" is the MOST important and FINALIZING part of the SALVATION process... And indeed exposes itself as teaching that:  the ONE "ACCEPTING" is in fact... his OWN Savior...  :thumbdown:  For WITHOUT that ""ACCEPTANCE""... that one is NOT SAVED!  :sigh:

And leaves ALL that our Holy God and His CHRIST have LOVINGLY done for the WORLD that YHVH so LOVED, ...is found THWARTED and brought to naught, by SINFUL and FINITE human beings...  :thumbdown:  :sigh:

Such as this DISMAL and UNVICTORIOUS effort which is FALSELY posed by you and your FALSE teachings.  :sigh:

Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus?

What shallow vision is this?  You so much as call JESUS a FAILURE here, for "He ATTEMPTED", but the "ATTEMPT" -- FAILED!   :sigh:

SHAME be upon YOU and your message!  :thumbdown:

JESUS noted many things, which were by ORDINATION of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD to be so...  The "rich man" and his story are NECESSARY to illustrate that man cannot SERVE GOD and MONEY... Without this illustration which occured in REAL LIFE, we would be without that EXAMPLE...

ALL men are called in DUE TIME, which "time" extends to the conclusion of the LAST DAY (in which takes place RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT)...

If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man?

:omg: Again, in your BLASPHEMY... you note CHRIST as UNSUCCESSFUL... :talkangry:  How UNSPIRITUAL of you!

CHRIST and LOVE ...NEVER FAIL!

That YOU observe by your OWN WORDS, :wacko2: ..."FAILURE" occuring within CHRIST's ministry... is YOUR LACK, ...certainly NOT, His... 

Carnally failing to see the EXAMPLE which is noted and the NEED for it to be noted for the GOOD of others.  The "rich man" will CERTAINLY be SAVED... it was NOT his "due time" to be "TESTIFIED" -- 1 Tim 2:6

Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:

As I have already said, ...you are so EASY to debunk, it is just getting BORING...  :boredom:

What a COMPLETELY lying and false conclusion... depicting LOVE as a FAILURE, when SCRIPTURE states that "LOVE NEVER FAILS! -- 1 Cor 13:8

You are PURPOSELY ignorant of what is said in Scripture, and your LYING TONGUE is a WITNESS against ITSELF... In its endeavor to match your DEFEATED and RELIGIOUS "message" -- I can't bring myself to name YOUR message as the "gospel" for it is ANYTHING BUT that!  [gospel=good news]

LOVE decides when RESPONSE TO IT shall occur...  You place all the POWER in the DEFEATED hands of SINFUL MEN... instead of where it belongs, ...in the VICTORIOUS hands of our HOLY GOD... :pitiful:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Law Preachers  Vs.  Grace Preachers.
I personally find it sad that some people receive the CURSE OR  Anathema and the Anointing profit THEM nothing if they are not aware that they are mixing up the Gospels in the new testament.

See other thread

[Tony N]

tony,

I guess you did not read the other thread, Ill post again.

The verse most often used to denote Jesus' universalist claim is John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can "draw" another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:

Concerning the rich young man . . . in the first place, Jesus hadn't been exalted out of the earth at that point in time.

In the second place, getting the rich young man to separate himself from his riches in order to follow Jesus is very different from Jesus actually drawing all to Himself.

In the third place, the drawing of all is dependent upon Christ being exalted out of the earth signifying His death. Since He did die, all will be drawn. Just because all are not drawn in this eon or in that which is impending does not negate Jesus' promise to draw all.

Jesus also prophecied the fall of Jerusalem. It happened. Just as that happened, thus will all be drawn to Him or He is a false prophet. That is something I'm sure you would wish to avoid calling Him, right?

lee100, maybe you missed my reply to you?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Just an interesting writing I have saved for anyone to read from
Hanson's The Bible Hell.

The Teaching Of A Parable
              The Teaching of the Parable

   But what does the parable teach?  That the Jewish nation, and especially the Scribes and Pharisees were about to die as a power, as a church, as a controlling influence in the world; while the common people among them and the Gentiles outside of them were to be exalted in the new order of things.  The details of the parable show this; "There was a rich man clothed in purple and fine linen" In these first words, by describing their very costume, the Savor fixed the attention of his hearers on the Jewish priesthood.  They were emphatically the rich man of that nation.  His description of the beggar was equally graphic.  He lay at the gate of the rich, only asking to be fed by the crumbs that fell from the table. Thus dependent were the common people, and the Gentiles on the Scribes and Pharisees.  We remember how Christ once rebuked them for shutting up the kingdom of heaven against these.  They lay at the gate of the Jewish hierarchy.  For the Gentiles were literally restricted to the outer court of the temple.  Hence in Rev. 11;12 we read:" But the court, which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles."  They could only walk in the outer temple.  This is the significance of the language of the Canaanitish woman, Matt 15:27, who desired the Savor to heal her daughter.  The Savor, to try her faith, said: "It is not meet to cast the children's bread to the dogs" She replied, "Truth Lord, yet the dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from their Mater's table."  The prophet{ Isa. 1:6 } represents the common people of Israel as "full of wounds, bruises, and putrefying sores." The brief, graphic descriptions given by the Savior, at once showed his hearers that he was describing those two classes, the Jewish priesthood and nation on the one hand and the common people, Jews and Gentiles, on the other.
   The rich man died and was buried. This class died officially, nationally and its power departed.  The kingdom of God's dear son where is neither Jew nor Greek, 2004 years ago at His cross, but where all are one in Christ Jesus. This is the meaning of the expression "Abraham's boson."  They accept the true faith and so became one with faithful Abraham.


Abraham is called the father of the faithful and the beggar is represented to have gone to Abraham's bosom, to denote the fact which is now history, that the common people and Gentiles would accept Christianity and become Christian nations, enjoying the blessing of the Christian faith.  What is meant by the torment of the rich man?  The misery of those proud men, when soon after their land was captured and their city and temple possessed by barbarians. And they scattered chaff before the wind -a condition in which they have continued from that day to this. All efforts to bless them with Christianity have proved unavailing.  At this very moment there is a great gulf fixed so that there is no passing to and fro.  And observe, the Jews do not desire the gospel.  Nor did the rich man ask to enter Abraham's bosom with Lazarus.  He only wished Lazarus to alleviate his sufferings by dipping in water and cooling his tongue.
   It is so with the Jews today.  They do not desire the gospel: they only ask those among whom they sojourn ( dwell ), to tolerate them and soften the hardships that accompany their wanderings,  The Jewish church and nation is now dead,  Once they were exalted to heaven, but now they are thrust down to Hadees, the kingdom of death, and the gulf that yawns between them and the Gentiles shall not be abolished till the fullness of the Gentiles shall come in, and "then Israel shall be saved." 
   Lightfoot says: "The main scope and design of it seems this: to hint the destruction of the unbelieving, Jews, who, though they had Moses and the Prophets, Did not believe them, they would not believe though one ( JC ) rose from the dead.
   Our quotations are NOT from Universalists, but from those who accepted the doctrine of eternal punishment, but who were forced to confess that this parable has no reference to that subject.  The rich man of the Jews were and are in the same   Hell  in which David was when he said: "The pains of Hell ( Hadees)  got hold of me, I found trouble and sorrow," and "thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Hell."  Not in endless woe in the future world,  but in misery and suffering in this world-------- ( age )   
But is this a final condition?  NO, wherever, we locate it,it must END....
   A Rising Son Ministries, retyped by Lee
Damboise II, By .Hanson, The Bible Hell.

[333]

 

Look at the words literally without interpretation.

and this is why you do not "see".  God is Spirit. The written word says to "see in the Spirit".  We are to walk in the Spirit.  We are to "hear in the Spirit".

If you pray and ask our Heavenly Father to give you spiritual eyes and spiritual ears you will be able to read the written words in the Spirit they were meant to be read in. No where in the bible does it say the written word is to be "only seen literally".

The written word was written by the Holy Spirit and must be interpreted by the Holy Spirit to our hearts and minds.

You telling others to look at the words literally without interpretation is only quoteing the written word the same as satan did with Jesus in the wilderness. Knowing the scripture does not mean you have the Spirit within your words when you quote them.

Jesus proved that Himself with His scriptual replies to satan in the wilderness which proves one spoke with the Spirit and one did not. Both quoting scipture.

Satan read the words literally without interpretation.  

But then I guess we all have a role to play in the great scheme of things.

Vessel's of honor and vessel's of dishonor.

P.S-  if you truly want to get the exact and right literal meaning of the scriptures then you must go back to the original text. Because all since then are "translations".  To get the original meaning of the "literal" words you want to quote". Because so many of the words "you are quoting" are not even in the original texts. So even if they are read "literally without interpretation" you are still getting it wrong.

"do not lean on your own understanding but in all ways acknowledge Him".  

Lee if you are not taking the time to pray and ask the Lord for divine revelation before you read the bible then you are not receiving rightly and being "satisfied" with the letter of the word and not hungering for the Spirit and to me that is a sad sad thing to be so satisfied with so much less than is available for you.  

All these questions that you are posting on this board hoping to trip someone up is only fulfilling the position that satan played out in the wilderness.  

Do you hunger to know Jesus personally with your whole being? Not just knowing about Him?  Because if you truly do then you would not be wasting your time in frivolous behaviour.

I was where you are once.  I praise God that He took me out of it.  I praise God that He began to open up  my heart and mind to "higher things in Him".  

You are not looking high enough to truly see God!

When you begin to truly receive "divine revelation" from the Holy Spirit. And not just what you think is "divine revelation". And not just your own literal thoughts then you will literally be sick to your stomach at the revelation of just "who" is really sitting on the throne of your heart.  

You are not alone.  We all have had to go through it.  I pray it will be sooner rather than later.

[claypot]

333, that was an excellent post IMO. I liked it all but the first part on seeing things spiritually spoke especially to me.

Thanks

cp

PS: We are sure good at getting coglee in a corner to where he has no response but he is like something slippery and twisty as he slithers out of the corner to emerge in a whole new place (thread). He also has the uncanny ability to completely be able to cut himself free from previous threads and move on without a thought to the 'hanging' thread he left. Interesting character but useful.

[j.]

tony,

I guess you did not read the other thread, Ill post again.

The verse most often used to denote Jesus' universalist claim is John 12:32:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can "draw" another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:

Sorry, but what you have posted is flat out wrong.

He drew (literally in the Greek, "dragged") ALL of humanity to Himself, and His judgment is one of "judgment unto victory".

What's more important: That you come to my house and stand in the front yard saying, "I accept your invitation", or that I invite you and welcome you into my house, no questions asked, so that I can do all that I wish for you and take care of you?

That's the difference. We are ALL accepted in the beloved, regardless of our response to that acceptance. Don't miss that.