Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Discussions on Universal Salvation => Topic started by: Universalist Catholic on March 09, 2010, 06:10:26 PM

Title: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: Universalist Catholic on March 09, 2010, 06:10:26 PM
Compared to the new Testament.  In the books of Moses, God is seen killing people for performing the rights incorrectly.  Anyone who sins is automatically stoned, without forgiveness. 

In the new Testament, Jesus is a lot more forgiving.  He does not seem so ritualistically rigid as in the New Testament.
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: sheila on March 09, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
  I think it's because He had not led them to Christ yet, The law

  covenant was in effect and hadn't been fulfilled yet. The

  severe consequences of sin had to be duly noted by the family

   of Adam[tree of knowledge of good and evil]so that they may

better appreciate the grace that they were being led unto.

   Also, the rejection of that GRACE shown in Christ had severe

  consequences,too.for Jerualem,back then..with desolation

coming from that rejection...until it is said "Blessed is he that

  comes in the name of the Lord".

   An eternal lesson is learnt by all God's children...it is better

to listen to OUR FATHER IN ALL THINGS...there is no better way

  HONOUR AND DEEP RESPECT FOR HIS WORD WILL FOREVER

BE ESTABLISHED IN THE UNIVERSE.

   HAVING GONE THROUGH MUCH TRIBULATION AND

SUFFERING DUE TO LIES AND SLANDER,THE CHILDREN WILL

APPRECIATE THE TRUTH THAT FATHER SPEAKS ALL THE MORE.


REVERENCE AND HONOUR AND DEEP RESPECT,WITH LOVE

AND APPRECIATION FOR OUR FATHER,AND ALL HE STANDS FOR,

WILL FOREVER BE ESTABLISHED IN HIS CHILDREN'S HEART :HeartThrob:
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: WhiteWings on March 09, 2010, 08:06:08 PM
If God is no respector of persons why the people that lived before Jesus received much harsher punishments?
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: Zeek on March 09, 2010, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 09, 2010, 08:06:08 PM
If God is no respector of persons why the people that lived before Jesus received much harsher punishments?

and why some "chosen" and some "not"?
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: WhiteWings on March 09, 2010, 08:39:20 PM
Dunno Zeek. I find it clashing with no respector of persons.
It like a court in old South Africa.
During the morning session Father judges black criminals. All get max. punishment.
After lunchbreak the Son judges white criminals. All not guilty.
Is that equal treatment; or would some people smell a tiny bit of racism?
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: sheila on March 09, 2010, 09:30:09 PM
Ezekiel 33;17

   Yet your countrymen say, The way of the Lord is not just.

  If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does

evil,he will die for it. And if a wicked man turns from his

wickedness and does what is right,he will live by doing so. Yet,

O'House of Israel, you say,'the way of the Lord is not just"

  But ,I will judge each of you according to his own ways.


   Time and time and time again God dealt with Israel,blessed

  them when they did right, disciplined when they didn't.

   Only when He finally sent His son,and they killed him,did He

cut them off...and this for a 'time' as Paul wrote.
Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: SteveW on March 15, 2010, 07:12:22 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 09, 2010, 08:06:08 PM
If God is no respector of persons why the people that lived before Jesus received much harsher punishments?

You mean while on earth, right?  Do you really believe that those who reject the truth and follow evil in this age can mock God and not receive wrath, anger, trouble and distress?  Those are new testament Pauline concepts from the passage you quote.  God sees the end from the beginning in terms of our earthly and future life as well as that of all of his children.

And God is definitely racist.  In the passage where it says he is no respecter of persons precedence is clearly given to the Jew over the Gentile for both punishment and reward.  So maybe the passage is actually Paul emphasizing just what Paul says it is, despite any appearance otherwise in our limited, earthly view, God's righteous judgment will one day be revealed.  In other words, it has yet to be revealed, ie, we can't see it all, clearly, or in full measure right now.

Romans 2
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. [is no respecter of persons].

Title: Re: Why does it seem like the old testament God is more wrathful?
Post by: sheila on March 15, 2010, 07:58:06 PM
 and this is His judgement..just as all men have borne the image of the corruptible...so too..will all bear the image of the incorruptible..

   will the old man of sin in us say' I shall live forever?

   will the son of God in us say,'my hope is cut off'?

   who goes into everlasting cutting off? Is it not the man of sin,

  the son of perdition, the scapegoat in the wilderness....

   is NOT the man of sin just this...sin in the flesh of ADAM/man

  are we instructed to put him to death? Is he not as good as

dead,already...will he not go into everylasting cutting off?

Has this man not been turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh..so that the spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord?

  can flesh and blood inherit the Kingdom?

   the spirit man is the younger..first is that which is the natural man....the spirit man is the jew given preference over the gentile..the spirit man is Jacob I have loved,Esau I have hated

  the spirit man is the Israel of God...the man of sin is the nations that have trampled the outer court.

   there is a spirit man..in the image of Christ...a Holy seed for the salvation of all.  There is evil seed[sin] sown in the flesh of the natural man that is due to be shut off and burnt.

    Hear the Lord..He is not impartial!..the man that is sinning he will die...in every human being.

   so, when taking out a people for His name.....to show

forth the great love for the spiritual son of God...HE HAS TAUGHT US MOST HIGH THINGS IN EXAMPLES SUCH AS THIS

   He says...Esau I have hated...the man of sin with his violence greed,earthly minded carnal nature He HAS Hated....in each of us.......Jacob/Israel....HE LOVES....the spiritual man in the image of His Son HE LOVES...in each of us.

   and who will seperate the sheep from the goat in each of us?

   Jesus Christ will and does and has......the High Preist confessed all the sin on the head of the scapegoat...
and sent him to wander and perish in the wilderness[that wicked generation that perishes in the wilderness] NEVER
to enter into the HOLY CITY

   we are spiritually circumcized in our heart[of earth] when the sinful flesh ,man of sin is cut off....the wheat seperated from the chaff, the wheat seperated from the tare...the two nations in the womb,struggling..the sheep seperated from the goat...the carnal Adam that sees corruption seperated from the
annointed that does not see corruption

   Israel delivered from slavery to Pharoah..to the promised land.. slaves of sin delivered into the promised eternal inheritance,freed from sins slavery....

   First-born of Egypt to die..Israel is my first-born son....

   Surely, if in error..man has previously judged God as partial..

  surely

THE LIGHT HAS COME AND YOU HAVE FOUND HIM NOT SO?

   Now granted...HE SHOWED FORTH THESE ETERNAL TRUTHS

  THROUGH EXAMPLES; USING THE VESSELS OF MAN..whether

  for noble or common....and the mystery of godliness and

godlessness had not,yet been revealed. Man,not able to

see this fine distinction,mistakenly judged him as partial.

   Rest assured...the man of sin in each of us,that brings forth briars and thorns..is due to be shut off and burnt up

then...the seed of Christ given to each man will be raised up..

and bear the image of the incorruptible son of God

      Blessings