It sure isn't the devil or Eve or Adam because we don't create them!
God create sin by putting the the tree of good and evil
Now, this bother me alot, the reason why is because God told Eve not to eat it (thereforehe knew she will do it anyway) but I find it interesting that God didn't warn Eve not to trust the snake! God know the future, God want Eve to eat the fruit, why?
Because God hate it when Eve and Adam are robot, he create human to love him or not, He did not want anyone to be the same
God do not want everyone said "yes" to God everytime! I think God want humans to understand good and evil, we cannot understand good and evil until God said it wrong to do that and it right to do that, God hate it when Adam and Eve said "yes" million times, I pretty sure God want them to said no, know why?
So God won't feel lonely, that's why he called us precious gems, because he love us but he want to learn
However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough
However, you people need to know that God knew the person that going to be born will hate God, did God create that person for nothing? If that true, it's doesn't make sense!
it like to trying to make a car with no wheel and you still use it and then for nothing
God is not a failure, not even us! God did everything he did, there no free wills (that's why we have prophetic, the future set in stone)
Come on people! Do you think God created eskimo who don't know God for nothing?!
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:
For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2009, 07:34:06 AM
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:
For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.
After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"
He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!
IceDash -
You seem to be gaining much understanding by meditating on these things. I agree with you about God not wanting robots. We are God's offspring. God knew of good and evil, but was never tempted with evil. He desires us to KNOW Him with an understanding of things and to LEARN wisdom. Our suffering, as awful as it is sometimes for we mortals is completely necessary for God to have the intimate relationship with us that He desires. When we do not UNDERSTAND - our hurt is very great. There are so many people who do not understand and are therefore angry and confused about the WHY of our existence.
Good post!
Anne
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 07:41:08 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2009, 07:34:06 AM
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:
For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.
After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"
He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!
Yes, God is a master of the
rhetorical question! :winkgrin:
Ever ask a child "what's going on?" when you know full well he has his hand in the cookie jar?
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 07:24:12 AM
However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough
The key you are missing is that no angels (Lucifer or otherwise) turned into a "devil". They were made that way to begin with!
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and
I have created the waster to destroy.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens;
his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Don't believe the "Lucifer fell" myth.
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 07:24:12 AM
Come on people! Do you think God created eskimo who don't know God for nothing?!
That is a brilliant question!
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on March 20, 2009, 01:51:07 PM
IceDash -
You seem to be gaining much understanding by meditating on these things. I agree with you about God not wanting robots. We are God's offspring. God knew of good and evil, but was never tempted with evil. He desires us to KNOW Him with an understanding of things and to LEARN wisdom. Our suffering, as awful as it is sometimes for we mortals is completely necessary for God to have the intimate relationship with us that He desires. When we do not UNDERSTAND - our hurt is very great. There are so many people who do not understand and are therefore angry and confused about the WHY of our existence.
Good post!
Anne
Yes that's why when God come back, he said "everyone will know I am Lord" it's another saying of: "I told you, I still love you and you are still my people and you are yet still need to learn more but I am here now and I am back to fix thing the way you will understand!"
Quote from: legoman on March 20, 2009, 02:14:14 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 07:41:08 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2009, 07:34:06 AM
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:
For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.
After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"
He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!
Yes, God is a master of the rhetorical question! :winkgrin:
Ever ask a child "what's going on?" when you know full well he has his hand in the cookie jar?
Lol, we all do, I never said God tempt people but sometime he control people in the bible, I found he "harden Pharoah's heart" when he told Moses, He also make Israel stubborn but not listening to God, (This one, I don't get it why God does that) God does thing in the bible I do not understand but I still love him not because of "I have to love him or I am going to hell" (Like many church do that!) I love him because there something God want us to understand.
Quote from: legoman on March 20, 2009, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 07:24:12 AM
However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough
The key you are missing is that no angels (Lucifer or otherwise) turned into a "devil". They were made that way to begin with!
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Don't believe the "Lucifer fell" myth.
Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from? God said he will throw the anti-christ and whoever follow the beast or took his "mark" will be throw there and I read Paul said something about we will be test by fire from our work, even good or bad people, we are still saved, and also John the baptist said that he will baptism people with water but Jesus will baptism people with fire
Noah's Ark, Moses split the red sea and Jesus's baptism all have the same meaning: killing the sins (or wash the sins away)
Every church believe once we dip in the water and rise out, our sins is done, then why we still doing sins!?
Didn't Jesus die on the cross for nothing? It said that He come to take away sins of the world, I am kinda suprised that church said "Jesus will cover the sins with blood" That's not taking away the sins, that covering!
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 04:00:03 PM
Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from?
I have I no idea iD, but it makes me think of the sea of glass with fire in it.
Same connection?
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2009, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: IceDash on March 20, 2009, 04:00:03 PM
Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from?
I have I no idea iD, but it makes me think of the sea of glass with fire in it.
Same connection?
Everything is full of "place of fire" in the bible, does it mean to purity the men's soul like changing coal to diamond, maybe...
Pressure and heat...
when sand is superhated it turns into glass..
you guys ever see that desert that a meteor hit and all
the sheet of glass it formed?
You mean this Sheila?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Enigma-of-Desert-Glass-Solved-by-Meteorite-Collision-43248.shtml
Quote from: sheila on March 20, 2009, 06:37:24 PM
when sand is superhated it turns into glass..
you guys ever see that desert that a meteor hit and all
the sheet of glass it formed?
:cloud9: I saw that not too long ago, where they were looking for and found the source of some glass some desert peoples had made into jewelry. I can't remember now who or where it was. It was an archeologist hunting it, though. Blessings....
Same principal,yes.But what I saw on t.v. showed
actual sheets of glass
I think of the scripture where he picks his jewels up one by
one that are scatterd on the face of the earth.
aren't some precious jems of the quartz family?
yes, just looked it up,amethyst,citrine,bloodstone,agate
and jasper.
Sheila
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2009, 06:50:18 PM
You mean this Sheila?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Enigma-of-Desert-Glass-Solved-by-Meteorite-Collision-43248.shtml
:cloud9: Well, I don't know about Sheila, but that was the one I was talking about. I saw a documentary on it on TV not long ago. I thought it was in Egypt, but wasn't sure as I watch all the documentaries I can catch. Blessings...
that must be the one I saw too,then,cause I watched it on t.v.
Sheila
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought.Now we must take every thought captive!Sometimes we do a good job with this ,other times we don't.
blessings :icon_king:
QuoteI still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
Before or after the serpent tempted her....?
Who wired Eve's brain that she could sin?
What use is it to put one forbidden tree in a whole forest of trees?
A big happy place with just one rule and it goes wrong.
Now put humankind in imperfect world with 600+ laws (of Moses) and be suprised the laws get broken.
Add to that all the rules where 'hidden' for the majority of mankind for millenia.
QuoteI still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
:thinking:
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 18, 2009, 09:29:33 AM
QuoteI still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
Before or after the serpent tempted her....?
Who wired Eve's brain that she could sin?
What use is it to put one forbidden tree in a whole forest of trees?
A big happy place with just one rule and it goes wrong.
Now put humankind in unperfect word with 600+ laws (of Moses) and be suprised the laws get broken.
Add to that all the rules where 'hidden' for the majority of mankinf for millenia.
QuoteI still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
:thinking:
Some good thoughts.
Eve's brain is wired to make independent choices, that doesn't mean she'll make good choices, and she fell for the argument of that used car salesman snake, since she had no spiritual discernment.
Really--without the snake, they would have lived happily ever after in the garden, because she got it right before the snake entranced her.
It is interesting that evil man loves his laws, mostly as applied to the other guy, though.
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. --Gen 3
Molly, that's the way I see it too. Now to define what 'who' the snake is.
cp
Although let me add that I'm not sure if 'she got it right until the snake appeared'.
I see the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life in full operation BEFORE she dined.
cp
Cp
who put that thought in her 'head' for you WILL BE LIKE GOD
KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL....pride of life..be like God
after this she kept looking at it, just like he who keeps looking
at a woman.lustfully.....eyes full of adultery...what changed her
perspective?Something made her look at it differently then she
had before
the heart becomes adulterous..after it sees with a different
perspective...eyes full of adultery
Daniel 7;8..this horn had eyes like the eyes of a man,and a
mouth spoke boastfully Daniel 8;21 the horn that looked more
imposing than the others and had eyes and a mouth that spoke
boastfully. As I watched, this horn was waging war with the
saints and defeating them,until the Ancient of Days came and
pronounced judgement in favour of the saints
Rev 5;6 then I saw a Lamb looking as if it had been slain,
standing in the center of the throne,encircled by the four living
creatures and the elders He had seven horns and seven eyes
which are the seven SPIRITS OF GOD sent out into all the earth
well, if that be the case...what spirits are being sent out by
the beast with ten horns and three and a little horn and eyes.
It can only be the spirits we know as anti-
christ,satan,adversary..as it wars with the saints...it has the
eyes of the man of sin or man of lawlessness..it is a spirit of
the adversary being sent out in all the earth, just as in Gog and
Magog that same principle and force is sent out
UNCLEAN INSPIRED EXPRESSION are opposite and adversarial
to HOLY SPIRIT EXPRESSIONS
Quote from: sheila on July 18, 2009, 09:49:53 PM
Cp
who put that thought in her 'head' for you WILL BE LIKE GOD
KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL....pride of life..be like God
after this she kept looking at it, just like he who keeps looking
at a woman.lustfully.....eyes full of adultery...what changed her
perspective?Something made her look at it differently then she
had before
the heart becomes adulterous..after it sees with a different
perspective...eyes full of adultery
Daniel 7;8..this horn had eyes like the eyes of a man,and a
mouth spoke boastfully Daniel 8;21 the horn that looked more
imposing than the others and had eyes and a mouth that spoke
boastfully. As I watched, this horn was waging war with the
saints and defeating them,until the Ancient of Days came and
pronounced judgement in favour of the saints
Rev 5;6 then I saw a Lamb looking as if it had been slain,
standing in the center of the throne,encircled by the four living
creatures and the elders He had seven horns and seven eyes
which are the seven SPIRITS OF GOD sent out into all the earth
well, if that be the case...what spirits are being sent out by
the beast with ten horns and three and a little horn and eyes.
It can only be the spirits we know as anti-
christ,satan,adversary..as it wars with the saints...it has the
eyes of the man of sin or man of lawlessness..it is a spirit of
the adversary being sent out in all the earth, just as in Gog and
Magog that same principle and force is sent out
UNCLEAN INSPIRED EXPRESSION are opposite and adversarial
to HOLY SPIRIT EXPRESSIONS
She looked differently than she had before but she had the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, the pride of life 'ability' in her from day one IMO.
Sheila, you say it is the spirit of antichrist that is sent out.................
I like that but who is doing the sending do you think?
cp
I've always wondered about some statements in Scripture........
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.1sam16.14
And it came to pass, when the [ evil ] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand:1sam16.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.1king22.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets,2chron18.22
and so on.
cp
yep,CP
It is all in the hands of God ....He creates and forms
us..whether for honorable or unhonorable use
1Samuel 10;6 And the spirit of the LORD shall come upon
thee and thou shall prophecy with them
AND SHALT BE TURNED INTO ANOTHER MAN
That is the deep truth for sure. It is the truth that separates reality from fiction. The truth that causes much debate. You said a mouthful, Sheila.
cp
Quote from: claypot on July 19, 2009, 04:55:38 AM
I've always wondered about some statements in Scripture........
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.1sam16.14
And it came to pass, when the [ evil ] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand:1sam16.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.1king22.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets,2chron18.22
and so on.
cp
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. --1 Sam 16
This is interesting. The Spirit of the LORD leaves Saul before the evil spirit can trouble him. They are not both there at once.
But, David is like Jesus, in that the Spirit of the LORD remains with him.
13Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. --1 Sam16
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: claypot on July 19, 2009, 04:55:38 AM
I've always wondered about some statements in Scripture........
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.1sam16.14
And it came to pass, when the [ evil ] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand:1sam16.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.1king22.23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets,2chron18.22
and so on.
cp
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
--1 Sam 16
Molly, you wrote..........
This is interesting. The Spirit of the LORD leaves Saul before the evil spirit can trouble him. They are not both there at once.
Molly, I notice you say the Spirit of the Lord leaves Saul.........and then you go on to say before the 'evil spirit' can trouble him. Just being picky here but I notice you did not say 'an evil spirit from the Lord'.
Why did you omit 'from the Lord'?
cp
Because we have Spirit and spirit in the verses.
Spirit of the LORD is referring to something very specific.
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 05:37:42 PM
Because we have Spirit and spirit in the verses.
Spirit of the LORD is referring to something very specific.
I don't understand. Is not
evil spirit from the Lord not referring to something very specific?
cp
Quote from: claypot on July 19, 2009, 05:42:13 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 05:37:42 PM
Because we have Spirit and spirit in the verses.
Spirit of the LORD is referring to something very specific.
I don't understand. Is not evil spirit from the Lord not referring to something very specific?
cp
Of the LORD and from the LORD means different things.
It says the LORD is sending or allowing an evil spirit, not that the evil spirit is of him.
Unless you wish to call the Holy Spirit evil, which I don't think you want to do.
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. --1 Sam 16
Maybe it would help to look at the Hebrew--
"But the Spirit"
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
"of the LORD"
H3068
יהוה
y'hôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
So "Spirit of the LORD" is rûach y'hôvâh in the Hebrew.
"and an evil"
H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra'ah; as adjective or noun.]
"spirit"
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
"from"
H854
את
'êth
ayth
Probably from H579; properly nearness (used only as a preposition or adverb), near; hence generally with, by, at, among, etc.: - against, among, before, by, for, from, in (-to), (out) of, with. Often with another preposition prefixed.
"the LORD"
H3068
יהוה
y'hôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: claypot on July 19, 2009, 05:42:13 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 19, 2009, 05:37:42 PM
Because we have Spirit and spirit in the verses.
Spirit of the LORD is referring to something very specific.
I don't understand. Is not evil spirit from the Lord not referring to something very specific?
cp
Of the LORD and from the LORD means different things.
It says the LORD is sending or allowing an evil spirit, not that the evil spirit is of him.
Unless you wish to call the Holy Spirit evil, which I don't think you want to do.
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
--1 Sam 16
Yes, but Molly, there are many other verses that we must do major gymnastics with if we are to follow your reasonings. I quoted just a few a couple of posts back.
Again why would God make it so complicated to the point of never really being able to say for certain? He knew we would be totally dumbfounded as to His word. He knew we would come to conclusions totally opposite His meaning BECAUSE OF the way He lets His Word be written. I wonder..............................
I know the answer lies in the fact that we must have the mind of Christ to know anything as the natural mind receives nothing from the Lord God.
cp
If God makes evil spirits, I don't think it's the same as God making sin. God created the possibility for sin, even on purpose, but it always seems to be another creature or being that does the sinning, and not God.
Similarly, I think God created the possibility for sin, and is in a sense, responsible for sin, but not guilty of sin. So he might have allowed sin/made sin possible, in a sense, but it doesn't meant he sinned by allowing sin/making sin possible.
Hi Tim,
I understand your reasoning and can go along with it for the most of it. But I see it less black/white.
So if I place a mine field in your garden and the next day your wive blows up you blame her?
Afterall I just placed the mines (=possibility to sin) but your wife had a choice (not) to step on them (=sin)
Your quote revised:
Similarly, I think God created
mines, and is in a sense, responsible for
the death they cause, but not guilty of
killing. So he might have allowed
murder/killing possible, in a sense, but it doesn't meant he
killed by
creating mines.
Some "facts" as
I see them:
a] God created everything.
b] God has absolute 100% total control how His design/creation acts.
c] He declares that His 'big dream' is a universe without sin.
d] He makes rules to avoid sin.
e] He knows noone is able to follow the rules because that's the way He designed things. (the scorpion that passes the river on the back of the frog)
f] And being fully aware of the possiblity to sin He places boobytraps...
QuoteIf God makes evil spirits, I don't think it's the same as God making sin.
And what exactly is so evil about the evil spirits?
-> Possibility to sin
If the evil spirits where able to live sinless lives by supressing the evil inside of themselfs they would be good spirits.
-> That would mean the design is flawed.
WW, I like your way of putting things, I really do. You make me think anew.
No way around it, this is Gods game.
cp
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 20, 2009, 09:35:10 AM
Hi Tim,
I understand your reasoning and can go along with it for the most of it. But I see it less black/white.
So if I place a mine field in your garden and the next day your wive blows up you blame her?
Afterall I just placed the mines (=possibility to sin) but your wife had a choice (not) to step on them (=sin)
Your quote revised:
Similarly, I think God created mines, and is in a sense, responsible for the death they cause, but not guilty of killing. So he might have allowed murder/killing possible, in a sense, but it doesn't meant he killed by creating mines.
Placing mines in somebody's yard seems a little sneaky xD I think a more accurate example would be putting a control panel in the back of your yard that has a big red button and a sign that says "DO NOT TOUCH RED BUTTON!!" (and if you press the button you and everyone else is infected with a virus that makes you do stupid things). Here I'm thinking more of the first sin though, with the whole tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
QuoteSome "facts" as I see them:
a] God created everything.
b] God has absolute 100% total control how His design/creation acts.
c] He declares that His 'big dream' is a universe without sin.
d] He makes rules to avoid sin.
e] He knows noone is able to follow the rules because that's the way He designed things. (the scorpion that passes the river on the back of the frog)
f] And being fully aware of the possiblity to sin He places boobytraps...
Agree with everything here.
QuoteIf God makes evil spirits, I don't think it's the same as God making sin.
And what exactly is so evil about the evil spirits?
-> Possibility to sin[/quote]
Wouldn't an evil spirit be an evil spirit, not because it has the possibility to sin, but because it DOES sin? I mean, if one were to infer that angels have free will, then they also have the possibility of sinning, and so they should be considered evil too. So, I think the
doing evil makes a spirit evil, not simply just having the
possibility of doing evil.
QuoteIf the evil spirits where able to live sinless lives by supressing the evil inside of themselfs they would be good spirits.
-> That would mean the design is flawed.
Well, from God's perspective an evil spirit isn't a design flaw. It's designed to do exactly what it was meant to: be evil. It's just all a part of God's over all plan.
That's my :2c: anyway.
Thanks for sharing your opinion WW, btw. It's nice to be able to talk to somebody that's not out to get ya. lol Seems like most people I talk to on a forum, besides this one, when they have a different point than mine, try and cut me down.
Peace! :happy3:
Quote from: Tim B on July 20, 2009, 04:32:53 PM
QuoteIf God makes evil spirits, I don't think it's the same as God making sin.
And what exactly is so evil about the evil spirits?
-> Possibility to sin
QuoteWouldn't an evil spirit be an evil spirit, not because it has the possibility to sin, but because it DOES sin? I mean, if one were to infer that angels have free will, then they also have the possibility of sinning, and so they should be considered evil too. So, I think the doing evil makes a spirit evil, not simply just having the possibility of doing evil.
Perhaps you are right in theory but in real life having an evil spirit means using it to sin.
I'm a murderer according to the Bible because I hate. An adulterer just because I look at things that are not mine....
"....all have sinned...."
So all have the evil spirit and use(d) it.
So imo: evil spirit = ability to sin = certainty of sinning
Ok we could argue about Jesus but I think my point is clear?
QuoteQuoteIf the evil spirits where able to live sinless lives by supressing the evil inside of themselfs they would be good spirits.
-> That would mean the design is flawed.
Well, from God's perspective an evil spirit isn't a design flaw. It's designed to do exactly what it was meant to: be evil. It's just all a part of God's over all plan.
Exactly! That's what I mean. No design flaws by a flawless creator
Summary: We are designed with great love for red buttons we are not allowed to touch. Just to make things easy for us there are only 20 billion red buttons....
Me thinks Daddy is a bit naughty :laughing7:
QuoteThanks for sharing your opinion WW, btw. It's nice to be able to talk to somebody that's not out to get ya. lol Seems like most people I talk to on a forum, besides this one, when they have a different point than mine, try and cut me down.
That's often because they feel insecure. They thought they understood things and then you start messing with their head :happygrin:
I kinda look at it like this...
A&E hadn't developed the ability to love and trust their
creator,yet. He developed this 'evil' contrast to show that His
spirit was good/best for man.Being naive they didn't know good
from evil. God created man for His spirit to dwell in...the
tokogae has a token of God's 'goodness' and token of evil..
the tree of life has the full measure of God's spirit..
when we reject our true husband[he that loves us] and accept
another...he has chosen our delusion..that this other will
show itself that it does not love but hates us...we see the fruit
of this expierence.Hosea 3;1 [go show your love to your wife
again] Hosea 2;7 then she will say,I will go back to my first
husband,for then I was better off then now.
Love must develope in our hearts for HIM. SOS 2;7
....do not arouse or awaken LOVE until it so desires
it is LOVE for a husband that keeps a woman from accepting
another...fear may have some dampening effect..but LOVE
IS LIKE A WALL
he is looking for the look of LOVE upon our faces..only then will
we see HIM face to face
the fire of His jealousy will not abide with anything less than
LOVE...you can't buy LOVE..it is the very ESSENCE OF GOD
and though many do not know it yet, it is the very essence of
man in His image.
Hosea 2;7,10 listen to His jealousy.. she will chase after her
lovers but not catch them....she has not ackowledged that I
WAS THE ONE...therefore I WILL TAKE AWAY...
...I will punish her for the days she burned incense to the Baals
[loved another]...but me she forgot...here HIS CRY OF A LOVE
NOT RETURNED....
He causes her to kow HE IS THE ONE WHO TRULY LOVES HER
...I am now going to allure her...I will lead her into the desert
and speak tenderly to her......
in that day YOU WILL CALL ME 'MY HUSBAND"
:cloud9: Beautiful, Sheila........ :thumbsup: Blessings.....
floodwaters of good for nothing men[of sin] are causing the
woman to cry out ...take me away with you..hurry..
let the king bring me into his chambers...and freinds to
exclaim..we will praise your LOVE more than wine.
the Song of SONGS is about a LOVE RETURNED..
it is the DAY HIS HEART REJOICES...the Day the Last ADAM
says...at last..bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh
at the end of this 'exercize' of good and evil..all mankind
will KNOW WHO TRULY LOVES THEM...and KNOWING THIS
WILL IN RETURN TRULY LOVE HIM WITH THEIR WHOLE
HEART SOUL AND MIND
:cloud9: Sheila, you are SO timely, as always........excellent word in season. :girlheart: Blessings....
Colossians 2:10
And ye are complete in him...
sheila, awesome demension of the Spirit of prophecy that's been on you today! I receive a prophet in the name of a prophet and receive the prophet's reward, in the Name of Jesus! (Matthew 10:41)
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 20, 2009, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Tim B on July 20, 2009, 04:32:53 PM
QuoteIf God makes evil spirits, I don't think it's the same as God making sin.
And what exactly is so evil about the evil spirits?
-> Possibility to sin
QuoteWouldn't an evil spirit be an evil spirit, not because it has the possibility to sin, but because it DOES sin? I mean, if one were to infer that angels have free will, then they also have the possibility of sinning, and so they should be considered evil too. So, I think the doing evil makes a spirit evil, not simply just having the possibility of doing evil.
Perhaps you are right in theory but in real life having an evil spirit means using it to sin.
I'm a murderer according to the Bible because I hate. An adulterer just because I look at things that are not mine....
"....all have sinned...."
So all have the evil spirit and use(d) it.
So imo: evil spirit = ability to sin = certainty of sinning
Ok we could argue about Jesus but I think my point is clear?
Okay, so is your general point: only a person with an evil spirit will sin? Or, an evil spirit implies you WILL sin?
Also, this might come back to my general idea that humans are evil only in the sense of being imperfect compared to their perfect Father. I mean, can I blame a baby who has just come out of the womb as being a sinner? I doubt it (I don't even see how it could sin at this point lol). But I could blame it on being imperfect, and thus, liable to sin. Being imperfect is definitely something that is passed on genetically, and it also ties in with man struggling with the flesh, which to me, often seems to be the literal fleshly body with all its genetic factors. This might be a bit off subject (or maybe not), but I'm trying to comprehend all of this in my mind based on what you've said. :bigGrin:
Quote
Exactly! That's what I mean. No design flaws by a flawless creator
Summary: We are designed with great love for red buttons we are not allowed to touch. Just to make things easy for us there are only 20 billion red buttons....
Me thinks Daddy is a bit naughty :laughing7:
lol WW, you crack me up!
Quote
That's often because they feel insecure. They thought they understood things and then you start messing with their head :happygrin:
Messing with people's head can actually be very healthy for them, I think. I've gotten messed with my head plenty of times over my 20 year life, and I definitely think I'm growing from it. :thumbsup:
throwing a question out there for anyone...
when they sacrificed their children to some god...didn't God say ,He couldn't even have come up with that idea!
.....so if it wasn't God's idea,who came up with it?Does man have the ability to come up with or create this on his own?
Quote from: onlytruth on July 20, 2009, 11:22:11 PM
throwing a question out there for anyone...
when they sacrificed their children to some god...didn't God say ,He couldn't even have come up with that idea!
.....so if it wasn't God's idea,who came up with it?Does man have the ability to come up with or create this on his own?
Hmm, good question. I've wondered about this too. Here's the text...:
QuoteJeremiah 7:30-32 (Young's Literal Translation)
30For the sons of Judah Have done the evil thing in Mine eyes, An affirmation of Jehovah, They have set their abominations in the house On which My name is called -- to defile it,
31And have built the high places of Tophet, That [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, To burn their sons and their daughters with fire, Which I did not command, Nor did it come up on My heart.
32Therefore, lo, days are coming, An affirmation of Jehovah, And it is not said any more, `The Tophet,' And `Valley of the son of Hinnom,' But `Valley of the slaughter,' And they have buried in Tophet -- without place.
Well, I was doing a bit of reading on biblegateway.com and ran across this verse:
QuoteIsaiah 30:33 (Young's Literal Translation)
33For, arranged from former time is Tophet, Even it for the king is prepared, He hath made deep, He hath made large, Its pile [is] fire and much wood, The breath of Jehovah, As a stream of brim stone, is burning in it!
This seems to suggest that God intended for Topheth to be created. Maybe all God is saying in Jeremiah is that it wasn't his heart's desire to burn children, but the evil desire of the sons of Judah, even if it was his will that they burn their children because if their wicked desires.
Think of Job. Satan was the one who wanted to have Job tested to see if he really followed God. God allowed Satan to do it. But was Satan's evil desire in testing Job the same as God's even though God allowed it? I don't think so. Satan simply wanted to make Job miserable and to insult God. God wanted Satan to do it for other reasons. So Satan's desire was not God's desire, even though God had planned for Satan to test Job.
Does that make sense?
Quote from: Tim B on July 20, 2009, 10:15:06 PM
Okay, so is your general point: only a person with an evil spirit will sin? Or, an evil spirit implies you WILL sin?
WILL sin. And we all have a evil spirit. At least that is what I understand from the Bible.
If there are none sinners Jesus can not be the Saviour/Healer of all.
Even Jesus can't save what doesn't need to be saved.
QuoteAlso, this might come back to my general idea that humans are evil only in the sense of being imperfect compared to their perfect Father. I mean, can I blame a baby who has just come out of the womb as being a sinner?
I think not. I would find it very odd. Age of accountability..... For Jews that is at 13. I bet that's not just a random number.
You could argue it should be 10 or 18 but clear is that it is no baby.
QuoteI doubt it (I don't even see how it could sin at this point lol).
Surely there are people that claim a baby is sinful. Because:
a] Born out of lust of his/her parents.
b] Passed on sin from Adam and Eve.
Not my opinion I have to add. And even if sin in inherited I doubt it very very much God will punish the baby for dying...
QuoteBut I could blame it on being imperfect, and thus, liable to sin. Being imperfect is definitely something that is passed on genetically, and it also ties in with man struggling with the flesh, which to me, often seems to be the literal fleshly body with all its genetic factors.
Imperfect yes. But can we use that as an exuse for every thing we do wrong. Ok it's the evil spirit in us that makes us sin.
IMO we can't completely shut down that evil spirit. But I think we can at least slow it down.
I mean something instead of 10 lies a day 2 lies a day.
Quote from: onlytruth on July 20, 2009, 11:22:11 PM
throwing a question out there for anyone...
when they sacrificed their children to some god...didn't God say ,He couldn't even have come up with that idea!
.....so if it wasn't God's idea,who came up with it?Does man have the ability to come up with or create this on his own?
I don't know exactly to explain this but I think God doesn't always says what He means.
It started when Adam and Eve hid themselfs after they ate the fruit.
God asked where there where. Then asked why they where hiding. Throughout the Bible God asks questions.
Does that mean He really didn't know the answer? He really didn't know where Adam and Eve where hiding?
Bit like rhetorical questions.
So when God saw the sacrifices in the valley of Hinnom (now Gehenna) do you think He really didn't think about it?
He even knew before the universe was created. So for me it simply means: "I would never give such cruel commands"
If God really was unable to come up with that idea it would mean:
a] Humans would at some points outsmart Him.
b] He isn't all knowing because it suprised Him that such things would happen.
It a bit like when it's past bedtime and the mother asks the child "Don't you think it's time to go to bed."
It's a command 'packaged' as a question. (rhetorical)
If God really asks questions to learn something it means He's not perfect.
My 2 euro cents.
another question...tower of babel.God dispersed them because He was afraid of what they would come up with next?!To me it seems like people are drawing on something that is available to us, but God holds us in check,in order for His purposes to be accomplished
My thought on this all is ,we are created in the image of a Creator,wouldn't we be able to create as well?Now this could be good or bad.We see from Eve or Babel that God still calls all the shots but we keep trying all the same.Maybe this is why we only use part of our brains(that last part is pure speculation!)
:icon_king:
they were not perfected in LOVE so the 'house' could not stand
love is a perfect bond of union in which it can stand eternally.
Babylon falls because a foolish woman tears down her own
house through a lack of love. She is not our mother
Perfect LOVE is a PURE LANGUAGE UNDERSTOOD IN ALL
TONGUES
QuoteMy thought on this all is ,we are created in the image of a Creator,wouldn't we be able to create as well?Now this could be good or bad.
Yes. But as long as we are stuck in this good and evil thing, we are not to be trusted. Because we can convince ourselves that using our creations for evil is really using them for good. And, our first inclination is to use them for money, power, and evil--to achieve a position that makes us gods.
That is why we need the righteousness of Christ--and until we have it, God will hold us back.
Thanks molly,does that mean we created the sin?Do we create our own envionment by what we do and say?
I guess that is why we should choose life and only do what the Father shows us. :icon_king:
Quote from: onlytruth on July 21, 2009, 01:59:24 AM
Thanks molly,does that mean we created the sin?Do we create our own envionment by what we do and say?
I guess that is why we should choose life and only do what the Father shows us. :icon_king:
lol on a side note, this smiley face ---> :icon_king: makes me happy.
its a great icon...we'll be happy as we reign with Him! :icon_king: :icon_king: :icon_king:
I could be way off on this but...
God wants us to worship Him. God wants us to worship Him freely. As someone here said God don't want robots. God allowed sin into the world and His Son to die so that we can see, understand and appreciate how glorious God is.
The first few chapters of Romans would seem to indicate this. The Law was put in place to reveal to us how sinful we are and when we understand the Christ's work on the Cross we can really praise God in Spirit and in truth.
God did not allow His Son to die — He ordained it.
Because of His Human Death, the Lord Jesus Christ brought HUMANITY with Him unto the Father.
Unattainable by the law.
His Spirit does the work.
The pattern Son says: Now! Follow me!
I didnt do a whole lot of reading in this thread, but I feel, and have always felt...that evil and sin exist simply so that we can appreciate the good for what it is. If it didnt exist, we would have nothing to compare too and probably have no appreciation for it. Also, the existence of of those bad things fosters our dependence on the Father for something more than this life can offer us, which leads to a relationship with him.
In short...God allowed evil, for our ultimate good and relationship with him. And if that is the case, its only one more nail in the coffin for eternal torture, because if God allowed evil having forknowledge he would be himself evil because he knew that it would cause most of humanity to suffer forever. I believe God is much more loving and purposed than that
Sin is simply missing the mark.
Jesus hit it.
Follow Him.
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on July 27, 2009, 05:03:53 AM
I didnt do a whole lot of reading in this thread, but I feel, and have always felt...that evil and sin exist simply so that we can appreciate the good for what it is. If it didnt exist, we would have nothing to compare too and probably have no appreciation for it. Also, the existence of of those bad things fosters our dependence on the Father for something more than this life can offer us, which leads to a relationship with him.
In short...God allowed evil, for our ultimate good and relationship with him. And if that is the case, its only one more nail in the coffin for eternal torture, because if God allowed evil having forknowledge he would be himself evil because he knew that it would cause most of humanity to suffer forever. I believe God is much more loving and purposed than that
I agree.
Quote from: sparrow on July 27, 2009, 05:18:58 AM
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on July 27, 2009, 05:03:53 AM
I didnt do a whole lot of reading in this thread, but I feel, and have always felt...that evil and sin exist simply so that we can appreciate the good for what it is. If it didnt exist, we would have nothing to compare too and probably have no appreciation for it. Also, the existence of of those bad things fosters our dependence on the Father for something more than this life can offer us, which leads to a relationship with him.
In short...God allowed evil, for our ultimate good and relationship with him. And if that is the case, its only one more nail in the coffin for eternal torture, because if God allowed evil having forknowledge he would be himself evil because he knew that it would cause most of humanity to suffer forever. I believe God is much more loving and purposed than that
I agree.
Double agreed!
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on July 27, 2009, 05:03:53 AM
I didnt do a whole lot of reading in this thread, but I feel, and have always felt...that evil and sin exist simply so that we can appreciate the good for what it is. If it didnt exist, we would have nothing to compare too and probably have no appreciation for it. Also, the existence of of those bad things fosters our dependence on the Father for something more than this life can offer us, which leads to a relationship with him.
In short...God allowed evil, for our ultimate good and relationship with him. And if that is the case, its only one more nail in the coffin for eternal torture, because if God allowed evil having forknowledge he would be himself evil because he knew that it would cause most of humanity to suffer forever. I believe God is much more loving and purposed than that
How about people that died at a very young age. They couldn't yet see the difference between good/evil happyness/sorrow etc.
Then they sorta bypassed the learning proces
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 27, 2009, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on July 27, 2009, 05:03:53 AM
I didnt do a whole lot of reading in this thread, but I feel, and have always felt...that evil and sin exist simply so that we can appreciate the good for what it is. If it didnt exist, we would have nothing to compare too and probably have no appreciation for it. Also, the existence of of those bad things fosters our dependence on the Father for something more than this life can offer us, which leads to a relationship with him.
In short...God allowed evil, for our ultimate good and relationship with him. And if that is the case, its only one more nail in the coffin for eternal torture, because if God allowed evil having forknowledge he would be himself evil because he knew that it would cause most of humanity to suffer forever. I believe God is much more loving and purposed than that
How about people that died at a very young age. They couldn't yet see the difference between good/evil happyness/sorrow etc.
Then they sorta bypassed the learning proces
They might retain memories from the present life and God raises them up from infancy/a young age on the other side. In such a case they do experience a bit of the good/evil part of life, just not as much as others (just an idea). But in such a case, it might be asked: why does anybody experience a certain amount of joy/pain as opposed to anybody else? I mean, why did God create a person as evil as Hitler who will probably have to go through a lot of punishment and purifying as opposed to somebody who saved during this life?
Back to your original thought: babies that die early are probably part of the process which others (who do not die young) go through, as a part of the whole good/evil paradigm. That might sound a bit shallow, but I don't mean it to be... it's just an idea, and I don't wish to offend anybody who lost a young loved one.
Let me start with saying I find the whole teaching plan odd.
Don't you think God with His infinite capebilities just could created us with a pure Jesus like mind?
Ok, the parents may learn from the death of the child. But often the parents that didn't do anything wrong had such a faith.
Still that doesn't explain away the baby learning problem. If babies can be teached in heaven so can whole of humanity.
The whole thing seems so random. You already mentioned Hitler.
In the west the concern of many is to fight overweight and and the color of their 3rd cell phone this month.
The rest of the world is spending a whole day finding a grain of rice. Africa is part of that.
Is the average African so much more evil than the average American that they deserve(d) that faith/punishment/teaching?
And what does the the average American learn from it?
"Poor African. I will donate $2 next month if I can find a new cell phone on dicount."
So what we learn?
WhiteWings...
The way that I picture it is like a tapestry that God is weaving. Every single human being's life is like a thread in that tapestry. We are each learning things NOW, but when the tapestry is completed, and we gaze upon the finished picture, we will ALL learn exactly what God wanted us to learn by living this life on earth. Every life lived will benefit from every OTHER life lived, in this way. Our lives, EACH of our lives are threads in that tapestry... Mine, yours, the baby that dies at birth, the slave, the free, the rich, the poor, the abused, the abuser, the starving, the handicapped, the whole, healthy, unhealthy, every single life... is precious. Every single life is going to be part of this eternal (I say eternal because perhaps it will be like a monument almost...) tapestry that God is weaving... that will forever memoralize our experiences here walking this life with the knowledge of good and evil. Do you know what I mean? This life isn't the real life. This life is just the doorway into eternity. The suffering that happens now is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed. Easier said than done if you are currently greatly suffering... but this will come to pass. And the tapestry will be made up of all of our lives and in the center of this tapesty, is the cross. God's act of love.
This life is a gift. Because we are experiencing love along with non-love so that we can truly understand what LOVE is. If this life was all there is, then yes... this life would not make sense. But this life is just the doorway to eternity. This life is preparing for us our REAL life. How better to understand something, then to actually EXPERIENCE it... (love versus non-love.)
No matter how long someone spends here.. they will ultimately learn what God wants them to learn by the tapestry of every life lived. We learn individually, and then as a whole. Just like it is on earth... we learn lessons as individuals, and we learn lessons as a whole.
Well, that's just the way I see it.
This life makes absolute perfect sense when I see it this way.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 27, 2009, 11:51:54 AM
How about people that died at a very young age. They couldn't yet see the difference between good/evil happyness/sorrow etc.
Then they sorta bypassed the learning proces
Thats a really good question, not even sure how to answer it personally. I would say people that die at a young age, would certainly factor into the learning process of those around them but yes it WOULD seem like they themselves by pass the process. I mean if their learning process is in heaven/hereafter/whatever than why arent all of ours?
I will certainly have to ponder this, but it may be one of those things I wont know til I die (not to sound like a fundie, haha)
Sparrow,
I fully understand your explanation/view. It could very well be 100% true. But....
If God loves all his kids equally why am I a healty, wealthy, well fed, happy thread in the tapestry and so many others sick, poor, starving, sad threads in the tapestry.
I'm sure the result looks fine. But I rather be this Dutch thread than the average African thread during the weaving process of that tapestry.
QuoteThe suffering that happens now is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed.
But still I prefer the glory then and the semi-glory I have here...
I guess I'm veiled with a carpet :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2009, 12:29:46 AM
Sparrow,
I fully understand your explanation/view. It could very well be 100% true. But....
If God loves all his kids equally why am I a healty, wealthy, well fed, happy thread in the tapestry and so many others sick, poor, starving, sad threads in the tapestry.
I'm sure the result looks fine. But I rather be this Dutch thread than the average African thread during the weaving process of that tapestry.
QuoteThe suffering that happens now is nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed.
But still I prefer the glory then and the semi-glory I have here...
I guess I'm veiled with a carpet :laughing7:
Yeah, but I don't think it's really meant to be "fair" on this side... I mean, I don't know how else to say that. Trust me, I have thought about this so many times, and I actually think about it everyday. I really do. I think that is part of my everyday thoughts... about the differences in people's lives. How one person can suffer so much, and another person can seem to get off relatively easy. But I think that God is making up for it on the other side somehow. You know how it says the the last shall be first... etc. I think about that a lot. Perhaps the amount of suffering here is mirrored in the amount of glory on the other side. Which does make sense because, and this is a horrible frivolous example I know but take someone who is mildly thirsty, another person who has been out working in the heat all day and is VERY thirsty, and someone else who has been roaming the desert for TWO days straight in scorching heat... give each of them a glass of water.
Each of them is going to experience that glass of cold water in very different ways. Like I said, stupid example.. but it's kind of what is on my mind.
I don't know... but I just feel like God sees all. He notes the death of a sparrow, surely He sees all suffering that is going on. Remember this life is dust... it's over in an instant compared to our REAL destination, our REAL home. The verse about the woman in childbirth, her pains are horrible, but once the baby is born, the pains she suffered are nothing anymore... they are gone, the baby is here and that joy has taken over her. That's not to downplay the suffering in the first place.. but I just, I don't know.. it's hard to talk about because we don't know what is in our future. Things may be great now, but then tomorrow everything could change. And we all suffer in different ways, even the well-fed could be suffering torments in their mind. Some suffer little, some suffer greatly and it isn't fair. But I think that the contributions of every life lived... I feel that they will forever be memorialized. Those who suffered the most, perhaps will shine a little brighter in heaven and we'll look at them perhaps a little differently. know what I mean?
Well... just some thoughts. Like I said, I do think about this a lot and try to make sense of it the best way I can.
peace.. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: sparrow on July 28, 2009, 02:35:54 AM
Which does make sense because, and this is a horrible frivolous example I know but take someone who is mildly thirsty, another person who has been out working in the heat all day and is VERY thirsty, and someone else who has been roaming the desert for TWO days straight in scorching heat... give each of them a glass of water.
Each of them is going to experience that glass of cold water in very different ways. Like I said, stupid example.. but it's kind of what is on my mind.
Wow that's good sparrow! They all get the same glass of water, some will appreciate it much more. And I don't think these "rewards" are "eternal" either, in the sense that all will finally know the truth. Some will appreciate it more then. Others appreciate it more now. In the end all will appreciate it. But of course there is no end. Where was I going with this? Oh ya, good post sparrow!
at the end of the day...ETers rest in the knowledge of the "fact" that people have a choice to choose salvation in God, as for me though...I now rest in the knowledge that God is going to save all. I cant always answer the big questions, but I still grapple with them and can at least set my sights on what is in store for all of us :cloud9:
" set my sights on what is in store for all of us "
Care to elaborate?
And how does a son of God get to be a trendy, radical, bishop?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 29, 2009, 04:21:22 AM
" set my sights on what is in store for all of us "
Care to elaborate?
that all will be saved and will experience the fullness of God, despite any evil that may befall us now or hereafter. I dont know how to be more elaborate than that lol
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 29, 2009, 04:30:56 AM
And how does a son of God get to be a trendy, radical, bishop?
what? lol
Ninja,
I thought that you are the person depicted in the picture you publish.
That, dear one, is not YOU?
No, I am not Carlton Pearson lol
that would be pretty awesome though
it would also be awesome if mr. pearson posted on tentmaker
Quote from: NinjaWizards777 on July 29, 2009, 04:18:49 AM
at the end of the day...ETers rest in the knowledge of the "fact" that people have a choice to choose salvation in God, as for me though...I now rest in the knowledge that God is going to save all. I cant always answer the big questions, but I still grapple with them and can at least set my sights on what is in store for all of us :cloud9:
Same here, Ninja.. :HeartThrob: :cloud9:
legoman.. :icon_flower:
Well
frankly
i don't know anything about the guy.
But, if you put my pic on your opinions I'd be upset.
I thought that was you!
Kinda deceiving, 'ya think???
Worse than that, it's a UPFRONT LIE.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 29, 2009, 07:49:59 AM
Well
frankly
i don't know anything about the guy.
But, if you put my pic on your opinions I'd be upset.
I thought that was you!
Kinda deceiving, 'ya think???
Worse than that, it's a UPFRONT LIE.
huh? Plenty of people have famous people in their avatars.
Maybe it's just someone they admire.
I remember someone here...hmmm. Shib? had Jewel as her avatar.
I certainly don't think she was trying to pretend she was Jewel.. :laughing7:
wait.. are you just teasing ninja? lol..
No sparrow.
I trusted the image to be himself.
Fool is me.
Silly Christian.
It is a s/w common practice on boards. It's a good thing to ask about though if you don't know. I thought the same thing about a few peoples' avatars for awhile when I was a newbie on here. I didn't even know what an avatar was for awhile. Oh well, we learn with time and experience.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/pearsons_doctrine_of_inclusion.htm
He's not famous to me.
I have no idea who he is.
Check out the link I posted above, BServ. He's a Pentecostal/Charismatic preacher (Oral Roberts cohort) who had a revelation about a form of UR.
Here's a snippet from Gary's article; "The kind of Inclusion Message Carlton Pearson has been preaching of late resonates with the liberal media. Carlton Pearson's message of Inclusion seems to have taken a very liberal and unbiblical turn from his former Pentecostal days. His church, which has dwindled from the thousands to a few hundred since he's come out of the closet on universalism, has Hindus and Moslem's attending, according to various sources. It seems Carlton 's "Inclusion Message" is going the way of the Unitarian Universalism Association, which once contained hundreds of thousands of Christ-centered and Bible believing people and leadership during its earlier years in the early and mid-eighteen hundreds. But today, one would be hard-pressed to find the roots in this denomination that once were grounded in the Bible."
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6
I think it's a bad protocol.
Unless given permission of the person, and obvious and constant notice to others, otherwise it's a deception, not a practice.
An aberration.
are we seriously making a big deal over a person having an avatar that is not themselves?
your avatar is a candle...are you sir/mam a candle in real life?
I didnt think so
Gain the world — lose your soul.
He woke up in time!
yea! I am!
I thought that was you!
Sorry for my ignorance and naivete.
And yes, I AM a candle of water, in REAL LIFE!
Bugsy says the avatar deal will be ok. maybe we should post something about avatars for new members. i didn't know what it was about when i first joined, guess i wasn't the only one. if carlton comes around i bet ninja will give him his picture :thumbsup: Martin, should we post something just sort of giving new members a heads up?
Though I didn't understand it for awhile myself, didn't think it was a real big deal :dontknow:.
Nice point about the candle, BSERV. I didn't get it until you said that :thumbsup:.
OK, so I'm stupid for not knowing that someone posted another person's picture as their own.
I confer.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 29, 2009, 08:37:57 AM
yea! I am!
I thought that was you!
Sorry for my ignorance and naivete.
And yes, I AM a candle of water, in REAL LIFE!
...uh...how would you have hands to type. More over how would you have a brain to have any sort of consciousness at all? lol
more over is an impostor.
moreover is One Word.
If an avatar should be yourself I'm likely to win the blasphemy award. :sigh:
That's twisting the intention that it should not be someone else.
lol... you guys are making me laugh..
"more over is an imposter" :laughing7:
How do you type Sparrow?
Jump up and down on a keyboard?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 29, 2009, 09:15:12 AM
That's twisting the intention that it should not be someone else.
Isn't the name of someone else similar as a picture?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2009, 09:48:32 AM
How do you type Sparrow?
Jump up and down on a keyboard?
Man, those little stick legs are weak..
I have to use my beak.
takes... FOREVER to type out a post. :sigh:
Thanks Sparrow,
you're the only one that got it.
Is. 45.7, is true, God did it for His own reasons.
But Sin is Transgression of the LAW, It was not a LAW when Eve took it.
It was a suggestion with consequences because the law did not enter the picture until after the call of Abraham
Hartley Damboise II @ sinfree@gmx.com
Adult repliers only