Where/who was Jesus before He was begotton of the Father through Mary?
I am given to understand that dna is from both father and mother, but the blood is from the father, and should this be true, then Jesus was not a Jew?
This I do not think would make a difference as to God's chosen people.
And I am told that Jesus came from the lineage of Mary< from David, not Joseph <David?
Just felt I should put in all the info that I am working with.
Peace and Love Through Jesus.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
--John 1
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
--John 1
Genesis 3:15
and
Revelation 12:17
refer to her seed.
But women do not bear seed, they produce an egg.
This will be a topic of diverse opinion and all pray the Lord will bring His Wisdom and Understanding to those involved.
My opinion is, at this time, that the Lord Father created a second Adam in Mary from the dust of her womb,
just as the first Adam was created from the dust of the earth.
I do not believe, though, that the Father fertilized one of Mary's eggs, thus the Lord Jesus inheriting Adam's nature.
Mary, I believe, was a surrogate mother chosen of God, to bear the second Adam — The New Creation.
Jesus, her seed, obtained his DNA from Mary,
but life is in the blood and His Life came from above.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 30, 2010, 04:45:00 PM
I am given to understand that dna is from both father and mother, but the blood is from the father,
IMO blood is also formed from DNA.
The female part of the DNA remains unaltered for a many generations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA#Female_inheritance
Quoteand should this be true, then Jesus was not a Jew?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F
QuoteAccording to halakha, the oldest normative definition used by Jews for self-identification, a person is matrilineally a Jew by birth, or becomes one through conversion to Judaism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality_in_Judaism
QuoteMatrilineality in Judaism is the view that people born of a Jewish mother are themselves Jewish.
So if Mary was Jewish Jesus was also.
She was: http://ldolphin.org/2adams.html
QuoteThis I do not think would make a difference as to God's chosen people.
And I am told that Jesus came from the lineage of Mary< from David, not Joseph <David?
Both are from the linage of David. But does it matter? I mean Joseph was not the biological father...
DNA is not the thought for me, man has much to say today about DNA and I believe much of that thought process is a direct thinking to Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods
In my natural thinking this is a very bad place to be, but I know that God is in control.
Its the blood, which comes from the father is what I feel is important. I may be all wrong.
:cloud9: From what He's shown me, He was the Word (as Spirit) MADE flesh, or natural, and is the Father's heart/soul.
The Word as Spirit is the Father's Seed, and a seed can only bear fruit after it's own kind, and the Father is His "kind".
He took Eve out of Adam to show him what was in his heart, He took Israel out into the wilderness to show them what was in their heart, and He took the Word "out" to SHOW us what was in the Father's heart. Blessings....
He took the first Eve out the first adam. And the second Adam out of Eve :-)
Matthew gives us the genealogy of Jesus from the side of Joseph. Matthew starts at Abraham and brings us to Joseph.
16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
--Mat 1
Matthew calls Jesus the son of David. And we see here that Matthew refers to the generation of Jesus. Matthew tells us this book is about the generation of Jesus. That would be us, yes?
1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
--Mat 3
Luke gives the genealogy of Mary which takes us all the way to Adam and to God.
38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God
--Luke 3
Jesus called himself the son of Adam...
Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary's genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38 . Dr. Henry Morris explains the genealogy in Luke:
"Joseph was clearly the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16, so this verse [Luke 3:23 - says "son of Heli"] should be understood to mean "son-in-law of Heli." Thus, the genealogy of Christ in Luke is actually the genealogy of Mary, while Matthew gives that of Joseph. Actually, the word "son" is not in the original, so it would be legitimate to supply either "son" or "son-in-law" in this context. Since Matthew and Luke clearly record much common material, it is certain that neither one could unknowingly incorporate such a flagrant apparent mistake as the wrong genealogy in his record. As it is, however, the two genealogies show that both parents were descendants of David—Joseph through Solomon (Matthew 1:7-15), thus inheriting the legal right to the throne of David, and Mary through Nathan (Luke 3:23-31), her line thus carrying the seed of David, since Solomon's line had been refused the throne because of Jechoniah's sin" [Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible, note for Luke 3:23 (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Publishing, Inc., 1995).].
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/mary-motherofjesus.html#genealogy
God always crosses his T's and dots his I's.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 30, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
DNA is not the thought for me,
But still you mentioned it :winkgrin:
Quoteman has much to say today about DNA and I believe much of that thought process is a direct thinking to Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods
In my natural thinking this is a very bad place to be, but I know that God is in control.
What is a bad place? DNA research?
QuoteIts the blood, which comes from the father is what I feel is important. I may be all wrong.
Simple there is none.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 30, 2010, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 30, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
DNA is not the thought for me,
But still you mentioned it :winkgrin:
Quoteman has much to say today about DNA and I believe much of that thought process is a direct thinking to Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods
In my natural thinking this is a very bad place to be, but I know that God is in control.
What is a bad place? DNA research?
QuoteIts the blood, which comes from the father is what I feel is important. I may be all wrong.
Simple there is none.
As far as the dna, from what I have heard and read, medicne is quite lose to creating life. Ego in man is getting to think themselves in the form of gods. Thats all I meant.
I do not understand "simple there is none?"
Quote from: micah7:9 on May 01, 2010, 12:28:47 AMI do not understand "simple there is none?"
Mary was impregnated by the HS. HS has no blood so no blood can be transferred.
Why do you think the blood from teh father is more important than that of the mother? Jewish teaching seem to say teh mother is more important (in the question)
QuoteAccording to halakha, the oldest normative definition used by Jews for self-identification, a person is matrilineally a Jew by birth, or becomes one through conversion to Judaism.
Mary was Jewish. So Jesus was born a Jew. Needless to say He also was very aware of Jewish teachings.
So the way I understand it Jesus was a Jew and the bloodline runs (also) via the women. :2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 01, 2010, 12:59:00 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on May 01, 2010, 12:28:47 AMI do not understand "simple there is none?"
Mary was impregnated by the HS. HS has no blood so no blood can be transferred.
Why do you think the blood from teh father is more important than that of the mother? Jewish teaching seem to say teh mother is more important (in the question)
QuoteAccording to halakha, the oldest normative definition used by Jews for self-identification, a person is matrilineally a Jew by birth, or becomes one through conversion to Judaism.
Mary was Jewish. So Jesus was born a Jew. Needless to say He also was very aware of Jewish teachings.
So the way I understand it Jesus was a Jew and the bloodline runs (also) via the women. :2c:
Life is in the blood so it is important, Marys blood, Josephs blood is the life of the living creature, there is no power in their blood. but the blood from The Father is Life Giving. And I believe you are right that there is no blood in the HS, that causes me to think.
My :2c::
Jesus was a Spirit being before he became human. He emptied himself. Mary was just a surrogate mother, she just carried Jesus for 9 months. Neither Mary nor Joseph was Jesus' parents. God the Father, a Spirit being is the Father of Jesus.
CHB
Quote from: CHB on May 01, 2010, 02:50:02 AM
My :2c::
Jesus was a Spirit being before he became human. He emptied himself. Mary was just a surrogate mother, she just carried Jesus for 9 months. Neither Mary nor Joseph was Jesus' parents. God the Father, a Spirit being is the Father of Jesus.
CHB
I can understand that, but there is only one Spirit.
Don't understand the implication as to there being only one Spirit. (Heb. 12:9) Speaks of "the Father of Spirits". Are we not going to be Spirit beings one day? I know there is only one Holy Spirit.
CHB
Quote from: CHB on May 01, 2010, 05:22:35 PM
Don't understand the implication as to there being only one Spirit. (Heb. 12:9) Speaks of "the Father of Spirits". Are we not going to be Spirit beings one day? I know there is only one Holy Spirit.
CHB
I understand that He is the Father of spirits, and there is only ONE Holy Spirit, I believe when we become spirits it will be ONE SPIRIT.
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
We are part of his body--of his flesh and his bones. But, I've long thought of the Holy Spirit as his blood, which we share as well. [Blood is 95 percent water.]
Isaiah 32:15
Until the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high, And the wilderness becomes a fertile field, And the fertile field is considered as a forest.
yes, we will all be one as Jesus said he and his Father was one but we will still be individual spirit beings don't you think, just as Jesus and the Father were individuals? They were one in spirit but separate in body.
CHB
Actually, Jesus was born of a woman. So Mary was Jesus' mother. She was impregnated, by whatever means the seed was planted. She carried Him in the biological union of the womb. Mary was (wheels within wheels) Earth(kosmos/chaos), Eve(humankind), Israel(born under law),Sarah(born by a promise)the Bride(a virgin servant pleasing unto God). Jesus was sown into all those wombs, an incorruptible seed, begotten to make all things new. Jesus was the son of man- a euphemism for His relationship to all mankind, as one of us, connected to us each and all by flesh. Jesus did not carry the Adamic nature through His Father, but received it through His mother and thus was tempted in all ways like as we. He was in a clay pot, like we are. He tabernacled in a frail mortal tent as we do. Death could not hold Him because He never yielded to the demands of the flesh. He reckoned the members of His body dead unto sin all the days of His life, living as a free spirit in the love of His Father - which consumed Him and was the driving force of His life, even as a child. "The wind blows where it wills.......so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Abraham's seed, according to the promise. The son of David, after the flesh, the inheritor of the throne of Israel. The Jew first and then the Gentile, as the revelation of God unfolded out of the chaos through Abraham, in whose seed(the seed being faith- a son of faith like Isaac, a son of sacrifice, a son of promise) all the nations would be blessed. Israel, as Abraham's seed, carried the promises and the oracles and the genealogy, as a Lampstand unfolding until the true light was born.
The firstborn of many brethren- "radiance of the Father's glory and express image (Gr charakter) of His nature."
The Head over all things to the church, His body, the fulness of Him emerging out of the earth (the whole creation groans in travail eagerly awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God) Head first- Jesus the firstfruits from among the dead, the firstborn of all creation(as the Logos), filling all things till God be all in all.
Having partaken of flesh and knowing the weakness of it, as a priest, taken from among men, He is able to sympathize with our weakness, and intercede for us with the Father. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Having received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit, He is able to "strengthen us with might by His Spirit in our inner man" to overcome, as He did, and, having the first fruits of the Spirit, we also travail until we receive the adoption of sons, even the redemption of our bodies. "Many sons unto glory", sharing the inheritance of the saints in the light, in the ages to come participating in the restitution of all things. For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.
Brethren, we know not yet what we shall be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Quote from: eaglesways
Jesus did not carry the Adamic nature through His Father, but received it through His mother and thus was tempted in all ways like as we. He was in a clay pot, like we are. He tabernacled in a frail mortal tent as we do.
Hi,
I don't think Jesus carried the Adamic nature through his earthly father or mother. Jesus was implanted in Mary the Holy Spirit. If Jesus had gotten his human body through Mary he would have been born with sin on him. Mary had nothing to do with Jesus being implanted in her womb. (Matt. 1:20) An angel appeared to Joseph saying, "fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for THAT WHICH IS BEGOTTEN IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT".
He was born in human flesh and was tempted as we are but before he was born in the flesh he was with the Father. He was our creator.
(Heb. 2:14) "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also HIMSELF likewise TOOK PART of the same".
(John 1:14) And the Word WAS MADE FLESH and dwelled among us.
It says "the word was MADE flesh". The way I read this is, Jesus emptied himself of his glory and HE HIMSELF by the power of God, took on the form of flesh. He was placed in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit so that he could be a descendant of Abraham.
CHB
hi CHB
You may be correct, but I do not see how He was the son of man or what His victory was if He did not have human fallible flesh as we do- and conquered it, thereby condemning sin in the flesh. The idea that He would have sin on Him if He was born with Adams natural human constitution may not be logically automatic, the possibility remains He resisted sin and overcame it. That He was born of a woman, born "under law" also tends to lead me to believe that He fulfilled the law through obedience, not by inherent sinlessness. Mary, His mother, was certainly a sinner. IMO He chose sinlessness- while being presented with other options by the world, His flesh, and the devil- everyday. How could He be tempted, "like as we are", if He had no flesh to conquer? How could He sympathize with our weakness by experience- "a high priest.....taken from among men"? It is written in Adam all men die, I am not sure it is written, "In Adam all men sin"- I'll have to look at that. I think we choose to sin with our father Adam, but Jesus, having God as His Father, chose not to sin, even though, having Eve as His mother, His flesh was as subject to temptation, and free to sin, as yours or mine. Peace, John
Quote from: eaglesway on May 04, 2010, 03:13:22 AM
hi CHB
You may be correct, but I do not see how He was the son of man or what His victory was if He did not have human fallible flesh as we do- and conquered it, thereby condemning sin in the flesh. The idea that He would have sin on Him if He was born with Adams natural human constitution may not be logically automatic, the possibility remains He resisted sin and overcame it. That He was born of a woman, born "under law" also tends to lead me to believe that He fulfilled the law through obedience, not by inherent sinlessness. Mary, His mother, was certainly a sinner. IMO He chose sinlessness- while being presented with other options by the world, His flesh, and the devil- everyday. How could He be tempted, "like as we are", if He had no flesh to conquer? How could He sympathize with our weakness by experience- "a high priest.....taken from among men"? It is written in Adam all men die, I am not sure it is written, "In Adam all men sin"- I'll have to look at that. I think we choose to sin with our father Adam, but Jesus, having God as His Father, chose not to sin, even though, having Eve as His mother, His flesh was as subject to temptation, and free to sin, as yours or mine. Peace, John
Hi,
I did not say Jesus was not flesh, he was, I just don't think it came from an earthly parent. He was born of a woman, he did have human fallible flesh. I don't remember reading that Jesus RESISTED sin. He was put in, or put on a body of sinful flesh.
(Phil. 2:7) BUT MADE HIMSELF OF NO REPUTATION, AND TOOK UPON HIM the form of a servant, and WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN.
CHB
Any thoughts on Jesus being "perfected through suffering"? (Hebrews 2:10, 5:9, 7:28)
Quote from: eaglesway on May 04, 2010, 03:13:22 AMYou may be correct, but I do not see how He was the son of man or what His victory was if He did not have human fallible flesh as we do- and conquered it, thereby condemning sin in the flesh.
Good point; what did He conquer if He was so far above it? OTOH having a heavenly instead of a earthly father does make Him a class apart. On top of that He had strong guidance of the HS. Concidering that He was not compareble to a average man.
NASPsa 8:5 Yet Thou hast made him a little lower than God, And dost crown him with glory and majesty!
NASHeb 2:9 But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
Quote from: CHB on May 04, 2010, 09:03:52 AMI did not say Jesus was not flesh, he was, I just don't think it came from an earthly parent. He was born of a woman, he did have human fallible flesh. I don't remember reading that Jesus RESISTED sin. He was put in, or put on a body of sinful flesh.
There was much sin at that time. So also much sin to resist. The devil tempted Jesus by offerering Him kingdoms. Jesus refused. That was resisting sin.
I'm with CHB,
Flesh is sinful.
Or
Flesh is full of sin.
Quote from: eaglesway on May 04, 2010, 03:13:22 AM
hi CHB
You may be correct, but I do not see how He was the son of man or what His victory was if He did not have human fallible flesh as we do- and conquered it, thereby condemning sin in the flesh. The idea that He would have sin on Him if He was born with Adams natural human constitution may not be logically automatic, the possibility remains He resisted sin and overcame it. That He was born of a woman, born "under law" also tends to lead me to believe that He fulfilled the law through obedience, not by inherent sinlessness. Mary, His mother, was certainly a sinner. IMO He chose sinlessness- while being presented with other options by the world, His flesh, and the devil- everyday. How could He be tempted, "like as we are", if He had no flesh to conquer? How could He sympathize with our weakness by experience- "a high priest.....taken from among men"? It is written in Adam all men die, I am not sure it is written, "In Adam all men sin"- I'll have to look at that. I think we choose to sin with our father Adam, but Jesus, having God as His Father, chose not to sin, even though, having Eve as His mother, His flesh was as subject to temptation, and free to sin, as yours or mine. Peace, John
:cloud9: I've seen the same.......our new birth with the same Spirit as He, puts us on the same "level" in the sense that now WE have a heavenly Father just like He, and have the ability to deny the old "father" Adam. This is what He meant by, "call no MAN your father". This way, we too are born of a woman AND born of the Spirit. Blessings....
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 04, 2010, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: CHB on May 04, 2010, 09:03:52 AMI did not say Jesus was not flesh, he was, I just don't think it came from an earthly parent. He was born of a woman, he did have human fallible flesh. I don't remember reading that Jesus RESISTED sin. He was put in, or put on a body of sinful flesh.
There was much sin at that time. So also much sin to resist. The devil tempted Jesus by offerering Him kingdoms. Jesus refused. That was resisting sin.
I don't see that as resisting sin. Was it a sin for Satan to offer Jesus the kingdoms of the world? I don't see that there would be a need for him to resist sin. Nothing would be sin for him.
CHB
Quote from: jabcat on May 04, 2010, 09:11:30 AM
Any thoughts on Jesus being "perfected through suffering"? (Hebrews 2:10, 5:9, 7:28)
Hi jabcat,
This is just the way I see this at this time.
(Heb. 2:10) Last part of verse. "To make the captain OF THEIR SALVATION PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS".
It says "THEIR salvation was made perfect through his sufferings". It doesn't say Jesus was made perfect through his sufferings.
(Heb. 5:8) "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered".
Jesus learned obedience by suffering. To me this is saying that Jesus was obedient as far as laying down his life for us, it didn't have any thing to do with resisting sin.
(Heb. 5:9) And being MADE PERFECT, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
This verse tells me that Jesus was MADE PERFECT from the start, he didn't have to become perfect, he WAS PERFECT.
My understanding of this is. Jesus was a perfect being without sin and one who would not and did not sin. He took on the human flesh which we all have which was sin. It wasn't what he did that made him sinless but who he was.
CHB
No scriptures indicate that He had been disobedient in the past and hence had to be made perfect.
Who could atone for His sins?
I am certainly NOT adamant that Jesus was in any way imperfect. Yet there seems to have been some sort of process. For consideration and discussion;
Even though He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things that He suffered. Then when He had been made perfect, He became the Causer of Salvation in the Last Age for all those who are continually obeying Him.. and He was introduced by God as a Chief Priest according to the order of Melchizedek. We have much to say about this, but it is difficult to interpret it for you since you have become apathetic in hearing. For even when by this time you ought to be a teacher, you are continually needing someone to teach you the beginning elements of God's Words once again...For whoever is receiving their share in milk, is untested in the Word that tells about things that are right... Hebrews 5:8-13
I'll look for some various commentary on this, including in the Concordant Literal Commentary. That's online by the way;
http://concordant.org/expohtml/ConcordantCommentary/CC00.htm
Without Your Spirit Lord,
we are nothing but dust.
Please raise your Sons Lord,
with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding that brings us to the unity of the Faith. Amen.
James, the CLV still leaves it open.
The YLT:
verse 9:
and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,
Yeah, this appears to be the closest Knoch comes to "touching" it;
Not by personal ambition, but by the call of God which involved such suffering as is most repugnant to flesh and blood, did Christ obtain His priesthood. God did save Him out of death, but not from the "cup".
Quote from: Beloved Servant
No scriptures indicate that He had been disobedient in the past and hence had to be made perfect.
Who could atone for His sins?Quote
Hi BS,
He was made perfect in the flesh, this is what I was saying. Not that he had been disobedient. When the Holy Spirit implanted Jesus in the womb of Mary he was made perfect in sinful flesh.
Jesus broke the Sabbath law many times, Wouldn't that have been accounted against him as sin if he could sin? After all, sin is the transgression of law. Just my personal opinion but I think Jesus was tempted, tried, learned things but did not need to resist sin.
In (John 6:38) Jesus said "For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me".
CHB
I've been trying to remember where this verse was all day . . .finally got it.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Not only was Christ tempted by sin, he became it. Ever wonder why Jesus cried out "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" You think it was because Jesus didn't know? Or that he shouted it out for our benefit? If he took upon sin, he also experienced "separation". That's what sin does, it separates us from the presence of God. I'm thinking for that moment, Jesus experienced the separation and his soul immediately cried out in great angst a question only a carnal mind would cry out.
Jesus became mortal so that he could conquor mortality. he became mortal to bring us immortality
www.youtube.com/watch?v=97-NUdhflwc
beautiful indeed.
His name, since birth, Emmanuel, God with us.
He knew no sin.
He cried:
My Family! My Family!
Why hast thou forsaken me?
He was crying out to US!
Not the Father.
allelluiah
The blood had to pour out, it could not be contained, if it were only He would be valid.
Adam is ruddy, Christ, white as snow!
Same for us.
We must become His Life poured out.
Quote from: Nathan on May 05, 2010, 01:48:32 AM
Jesus became mortal so that he could conquer mortality. He became mortal to bring us immortality
Yes Brother Nathan.
Yes.
He glorified the flesh!
The ramifications are endless as we become like Him.
IMO, Jesus being "made perfect" through the things that He suffered has to do with completion. Jesus definitely matured. He never sinned or erred or trespassed but He matured.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness(homoioma) of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
A lot of things happened on the cross, but chiefest of all I think, is the payment of the debt owed by all, as Jesus experienced separation for the first time- having never sinned, He was never separated until He became sin on our behalf and experienced death- once, for all. My mind reels at the awesome glory of his grace.
Quote from: CHB on May 05, 2010, 12:54:01 AM
Hi BS,
He was made perfect in the flesh, this is what I was saying. Not that he had been disobedient. When the Holy Spirit implanted Jesus in the womb of Mary he was made perfect in sinful flesh.
Jesus broke the Sabbath law many times, Wouldn't that have been accounted against him as sin if he could sin? After all, sin is the transgression of law. Just my personal opinion but I think Jesus was tempted, tried, learned things but did not need to resist sin.
In (John 6:38) Jesus said "For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me".
CHB
CHB,
That is my point also!
I am in agreement with you all the way.
Re-read my statement:
No scriptures indicate that He had been disobedient in the past and
hence (after His physical birth) had to be made perfect.
Who could atone for His sins?
He is the spotless Lamb, sent from heaven, slain from before the foundations.
.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on May 05, 2010, 02:12:06 AM
His name, since birth, Emmanuel, God with us.
He knew no sin.
He cried:
My Family! My Family!
Why hast thou forsaken me?
He was crying out to US!
Not the Father.
allelluiah
My family, my family . . .Really? I've never heard this one before. That would change everything.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on May 05, 2010, 02:12:06 AM
His name, since birth, Emmanuel, God with us.
He knew no sin.
He cried:
My Family! My Family!
Why hast thou forsaken me?
He was crying out to US!
Not the Father.
allelluiah
I believe this also. I don't think Jesus said "my God my God why hast thou forsaken me". Jesus said many times that the Father was always with him and that he would never leave him. Why would he leave him at his worst hour? Jesus knew from the beginning what would happen to him so I don't see why Jesus would ask the Father why he was forsaken him.
CHB
It's another one of those that you really don't think much about because you think you already understand what's going on with it so you never question the validity of the translations.
Would he then have been talking to his natural family? Or the disciples? Or those that once followed him and now were nowhere to be seen? Or . . .would the answer to all that simply be, "yes"?
Got some questions on this . . .starting a new thread.
:cloud9: If I'm not mistaken, it was "Elohim, Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?" Elohim is plural, and since Father joined Himself to Israel at Sinai as a wedding making them "one"......Blessings.....