Someone told me that this was actually said;
"Worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".
What things jump out at you, how many things do you see wrong with this?
That expression, or ones similar, are no strangers to me. I heard them for most of my life, especially up into my 40's.
Worry about yourself, usually meant, to "keep your nose clean". In other words, just don't get yourself into any trouble that you can't get yourself out of, and do what satisfies you, and makes you "happy", in a worldly sense. It is at least a bit narcissistic, and certainly does not echo the thought that we are our brother's keeper.
Let the world go to hell, meant, don't care what other people do, or the consequences of their behavior. It had an air of isolation and a good dose of lack of compassion and caring about others, and their plight. You were just to take care of yourself.
Totally un-Christian, in my opinion, but, I only heard Christians, actually Catholics, say this. As a young child, the great majority of people I knew were Catholics. Others might think it, but they probably know better than to say it.
As I said before, especially in my early years, I was surrounded by the thought that Hell is where you hope the people who annoy you most will go.
But, that is all behind me now, until I meet up with a few people from my past, who still hold to this "theory". But, I don't let these thoughts take any root in me. I never did, anyway. Thank you, Lord, for your grace and wisdom.
D.
Phil 2;3--7 " Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves.
Each person should look out NOT only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
Your attitude toward one another should be the same as that of Christ Jesus,
Who, although He was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped.
but emptied Himself, taking on the form of a servant, being in the likeness of man.
And being found in appearance as a man He humbled HIMSELF,
being obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross."
Phil 2;20,21 " For I have no-one else of like mind who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare.
For they all look out for their own interests, not for those of Jesus Christ."
Phil 3;7-9 " But whatever things were gain for me, these I have come to regard as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing
Christ Jesus, my Lord, for Whom I have suffered the loss of ALL things, and regard them as rubbish in order to gain Christ
and be found in Him, NOT HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN that comes from the law,
but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness of God."
Seems to be against the self-centred concept of how to relate to, and live alongside, others.
Also seems to lack the whole concept of loving others as Christ loved/loves us.
Yes, a fundamental problem with the false doctrine of eternal hellfire, is that the people in heaven, if conformed to the image of Christ, would not be able to rejoice, but spend all eternity beseeching the Father to let them take the place of the damned. However, if they are happy to be in heaven and watch others burn, they clearly have not been conformed to the image of Jesus Christ!
QuoteSomeone told me that this was actually said;
"Worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".
What things jump out at you, how many things do you see wrong with this?
Many ways to look at that statement , sadly enough , :sigh:
Still carnally minded , and death still reigns in that heart ...for mine thoughts .
1John 3 Love One Another
...14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love
remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.
16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers....
:thumbsup: everyone. Interesting, multiple ways to look at this and different things to see.
Quote from: jabcat on April 10, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Someone told me that this was actually said;
"Worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".
What things jump out at you, how many things do you see wrong with this?
Paul doesn't agree...
Phil 1:23 I'm torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.
Phil 1:24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
....good thing Jesus didn't feel that way..or Our Father...they would leave the 99 righteous and go forth to seek the one lost sheep.
oneness and union in the spirit of love causes love in the form of charity to reach out. charity gives of itself where a need is.
some are bankrupt and very poor in the spirit...in the last days men will be lovers of themselves..lacking natural affection..
this attitude is adversarial to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I do not know the context the statement was made in......and
we also realize the scriptures must be fulfilled...and these things have and will manifest. also the revelation of Christ speaks
let him who is filthy remain filthy...etc. and as I understand these things...those who remain in the corrupt image unto death
as did many in Israel before the destruction of Jerusalem.....will yet bear the image of the incorrupt . so...until then those in the spirit
remain in the spirit....and the carnal will continue..until He comes....and we shall all be changed.
Quote from: Shev on April 10, 2017, 07:44:08 AM
Yes, a fundamental problem with the false doctrine of eternal hellfire, is that the people in heaven, if conformed to the image of Christ, would not be able to rejoice, but spend all eternity beseeching the Father to let them take the place of the damned. However, if they are happy to be in heaven and watch others burn, they clearly have not been conformed to the image of Jesus Christ!
Yes! One of my friends said that God would somehow wipe our memories so we wouldn't remember our loved ones who were in hell. That is absolutely insane! And this makes it seem like we are more compassionate than God, because surely he doesn't somehow delete his own memories. And so God becomes a liar, deceiving us in heaven so we will be eternally happy.
Ever see "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?"
I probably wouldn't watch it now, I'm not able to stomach most movies anymore, but the premise was a company would delete memories for a fee so people could be blissfully ignorant about whatever they wanted to be...such as after a divorce or whatever, just delete that person from your memories and you will be happy.
Gives me the heebies!
For sure! If you have to wipe someone's mind, something is rotten. Also, why learn what we have learned on earth only to have everything wiped anyway?
Great thread! And I agree what a strange idea! If nothing else, it seems to me that the Spirit of the Lord in us moves us to pray for people.. our family members, friends, etc, and often for people who cross our path.. though as for me, I in no way pray enough..And the people who suffer terrible things or live under very oppressive or destitute conditions.. Even non Christians usually feel compassion and sorrow for such things..
But it's a saying that reflects, sadly, the human condition, and imperfect, flawed creatures we humans are, there can truly be callous indifference..
Enjoyed this thread.. very interesting posts and points!
I never heard that exact saying but often heard "to hell with them" which I don't think has anything to do with 'hell' really but is more like "to heck with them"..
But then again, here's perhaps another slant.. on the saying "worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".. not that I agree at all, except as far as a sort of minding my own business (as that saying goes) and perhaps a sense of let the dead bury the dead? Just thinking how if I ruminate on the condition of the world too much.. it's kind of overwhelming.
...Does anybody else ever have that problem? That the thought of the evils and sufferings in the world sometimes are so overwhelming as to find it difficult even to pray?
That's why, when we are overwhelmed, and don't know what to pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.
God thinks of everything!
D. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: marie glen on April 12, 2017, 03:47:37 AM
But then again, here's perhaps another slant.. on the saying "worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".. not that I agree at all, except as far as a sort of minding my own business (as that saying goes) and perhaps a sense of let the dead bury the dead? Just thinking how if I ruminate on the condition of the world too much.. it's kind of overwhelming.
...Does anybody else ever have that problem? That the thought of the evils and sufferings in the world sometimes are so overwhelming as to find it difficult even to pray?
YES. Yes I do.
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Dandelion on April 12, 2017, 04:04:45 AM
That's why, when we are overwhelmed, and don't know what to pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.
God thinks of everything!
D. :HeartThrob:
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: GodIsLove on April 12, 2017, 04:47:57 AM
Quote from: Dandelion on April 12, 2017, 04:04:45 AM
That's why, when we are overwhelmed, and don't know what to pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.
God thinks of everything!
D. :HeartThrob:
:HeartThrob:
Amen , Oh to trust in these words of Life to us still dying to the world , that we can take on the true nature of Gods only begotten , one of a kind Son and LIVE though Him ... :HeartThrob:
I.M.O seems we will be specifically led about what to pray for as part of coming to the realisation that though others may seem to be suffering, this is probably part of their own learning; ergo we need discernment which seems to come when things are brought before us so that we cannot take any credit for what happens, but can learn much from seeing what our Father does in the situation.
:2c: perhaps a error in dividing 'the former things shall no longer be remembered"? also, our suffering as nothing compared to the
glory that is to be revealed. weeping endureth through the night[suffering of evil/travail] but joy cometh in the morning.
pangs of childbirth are quickly forgotten once you are delivered of the child. anything He would do with His creation in
regard to our memory...would be a protective move for our peace and joy.........expierences in this world have been very traumatic
for many...and I do not believe it would be His will we be haunted by memories of terror/past sins etc. I make all things new
the former things shall not be remembered.. when Zion was restored we were as those who dreamed..[.just as a terror of the night
fades upon awakening to a new day] even in our natural physical life...many have no memory of an especially traumatic event.
:thumbsup: Ross
Quote from: sheila on April 12, 2017, 02:54:12 PM
:2c: perhaps a error in dividing 'the former things shall no longer be remembered"? also, our suffering as nothing compared to the
glory that is to be revealed. weeping endureth through the night[suffering of evil/travail] but joy cometh in the morning.
pangs of childbirth are quickly forgotten once you are delivered of the child. anything He would do with His creation in
regard to our memory...would be a protective move for our peace and joy.........expierences in this world have been very traumatic
for many...and I do not believe it would be His will we be haunted by memories of terror/past sins etc. I make all things new
the former things shall not be remembered.. when Zion was restored we were as those who dreamed..[.just as a terror of the night
fades upon awakening to a new day] even in our natural physical life...many have no memory of an especially traumatic event.
True, but if given the choice I would choose remembering and healing versus not remembering, and I'm in the midst of significantly heightened anxiety about some past stuff that I'm working though personally. For like Shev said, then what is the point of learning lessons here on earth to then forget?
:2c: :HeartThrob:
I can understand that..but 'forgive and forget" is also a spiritual principle. and I shall remember their sins no more. You must forgive
those who trespass against you. :HeartThrob: Love keeps no account of the injury.
Barry McGuire said, "Some people tell me I am brainwashed, but at least I know who is washing my brain".
The scenario where God wipes all memory of people we loved so that we will not grieve that they are in torment forever or were destroyed out of existence, abhors me, and I think, any reasonable compassionate human being. The image of God this presents is eerily like some science fiction movie where we, as the eternal Stepford wives, smile blissfully and walk around indifferent to reality, towing the company line.
This is a far cry from every veil being removed and knowing as we are known, having the mind of Christ and His prayer that
"You may be one, even as I and the Father are one..."
But brainwashed is what they are, who hold because of fear of torment themselves, a doctrine that dominates everyone with the fear of eternal pain.
As Christ layed down His life for us(no greater love has a man than this), we lay our lives down for peope we love, in practical ways, and even if they dont perceive it, we trust that God is faithful and no act of love is never in vain. Jesus befriended us when we were, "alienated from God and enemies in our minds..." Col. 1- and we like Him hopefully do the same.
Our hope is fulfilled in that we know, because of our blessed assurance, that God is saving all through Christ that every seed bears fruit in due season, even if we never get to see it in this world.
I for one cannot imagine rejoicing despite the screams of the damned, and I am so glad that I know the fire of God burns veils and consumes towers and strongholds that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God which WE HAVE :o) - through Jesus Christ the Savior of all.
Wiser Man
wish i was a wiser man
wish i wasnt such a fool
this world is hard
people can b even harder
indifferent and cruel
if i was a flower
i would hide beneath a tree
to get a little shade
somewhere on the edges of
the shadow that the sun has made
wish i was a railroad man
ridin down those endless rails
watchin little towns fly by
followin those telephone lines
tellin all those tales
i got pictures of some good times past
i keep them in a box
some folks forget why we are here
my grandpa told me once
those folks are just a bag o' rocks
if i was a crow
i would sit along those wires
talkin with a buncha friends
tip my hat to God above
no one knows where this story ends
i wish i was a wiser man
i'd walk a straighter path
but i tip my hat to God above
for the friends i hav
for the people i love
for the friends i hav
for the people i lov
for the friends i hav
for the people i lov
Quote from: jabcat on April 10, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Someone told me that this was actually said;
"Worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".
What things jump out at you, how many things do you see wrong with this?
That would make the Good News only good news to egocentric people I guess. And not to those who have some love in them.
Anyone that loves, knows God. Anyone who doesn't love, doesn't know God. For God is Love.
I think of history and memories of it as the smoke that will rise age to age.. and all ages.. this crashing and burning, both individual and collective. That all this is writing, even deeply engraving upon every heart and mind the truth that God iS life and one simply cannot wander from Him.. A forever huge sign forever saying to each and every rational creature/being 'go not this way, that it's been 100% proven that wandering or seeking to wander away from Him, simply cannot ever, no never work!
Quote from: Abigail on April 12, 2017, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: jabcat on April 10, 2017, 01:50:16 AM
Someone told me that this was actually said;
"Worry about yourself and let the world go to hell".
What things jump out at you, how many things do you see wrong with this?
That would make the Good News only good news to egocentric people I guess. And not to those who have some love in them.
Anyone that loves, knows God. Anyone who doesn't love, doesn't know God. For God is Love.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Last night just before falling asleep i was thinking of if i would have heard the saying before being a believer "let the world go to hell" I would have thought of it as destruction.. :Chinscratch:
But the awful saying 'go to hell' i always took to mean the literal-mythical ( :laughing7: ) place.. :dunno: weird..
Noticed the Barry McGuire quote;
one I like, which seems pretty much a little insight;
" I walked a mile with pleasure, she chatted all the way,
leavin' me none the wiser, with all she had to say.
I walked a mile with sorrow, never a word said she,
but all the things I learned from her, when sorrow walked with me."
Yea, there are so many good quotes from Barry McGuire. Here's another.
When I was lost and all alone
I took a look at all I'd done
You know the only love I've ever known
Was callin me
Just callin me
Callin me
I heard Him callin me
Home
Quote from: Shev on April 10, 2017, 07:44:08 AM
Yes, a fundamental problem with the false doctrine of eternal hellfire, is that the people in heaven, if conformed to the image of Christ, would not be able to rejoice, but spend all eternity beseeching the Father to let them take the place of the damned. However, if they are happy to be in heaven and watch others burn, they clearly have not been conformed to the image of Jesus Christ!
yes, it doesnt make sense..however, most 'mainstream evangelical ' Christians seem to live with this quite well.....the notion that most of the people that have ever lived will spend eternity in painful misery while the few (in comparison ) 'Redeemed' spend eternity in ecstatic bliss with God....well, God has given me a brain to think with and I think this idea,the idea that trillions will suffer eternal never ending torment while a comparitive few enjoy heavenly bliss, is wrong, to say the least.
I believe one can only see this discrepency, darryl, if they walk in the Spirit.
This world is so fallen and cruel....if you look at things from a flesh/material world, you don't see or feel pain the same as we were made to.
People can become so hardened. If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart. So true.
We begin to make God to fit our world, instead of look to God, to see another view.
Isaiah 55:
8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on April 18, 2017, 04:17:46 AM
I believe one can only see this discrepency, darryl, if they walk in the Spirit.
This world is so fallen and cruel....if you look at things from a flesh/material world, you don't see or feel pain the same as we were made to.
People can become so hardened. If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart. So true.
We begin to make God to fit our world, instead of look to God, to see another view.
Isaiah 55:
8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
D.
yes Dandelion, but the problem is I know Christians who do appear to be 'walking in the Spirit' who still believe that people can be lost forever...they say they get this belief from the Bible...sometimes I wish UR were more explicit in the Bible so there's absolutely a 'slam dunk' in favor of UR....the funny thing is after I became a UR believer I could see that there was a 'slam dunk' in favor of UR, going from the Scriptures....hmmmm, I may start a thread about this.
And, I know plenty of Christians like that, too.
God will know when it is best to introduce them to UR, and, then the Holy Spirit needs to 'talk' to them about it.
Perhaps we are the ones who are to tell them about it.
D.
Because the scriptures are written to be understood by those whose hearts hav become humble before God, there are few "slam dunks".
People who want to see law and legalism in the scriptures will do so. People who want to see grace as a license to sin will do so. People who want to see condemnation and merciless judgment will do so. Those who want to see themselves as a special "elite" will do so.
We can never take the element of the Spirit out of the "mystery". Jesus taught this, "That seeing they might not perceive and hearing they might understand" and called them mysteries of the kingdom, hidden from the foundation of the world.
The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It divides asunder soul and spirit and makes manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Before a believer can rightly divide the word of truth, they must be rightly divided by the sword of the spirit.....but to so many the word of God is not "living and active". It is just words on a page, not a treasure hidden in a field.
But we are only called to be "witnesses". We have to learn to trust God for the "fruit in due season". Believe me..... God is in control and up to the task. Sometimes we must be the voice cyring out in the wirlderness, but this gospel will be proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and eventually every creature under heaven will receive it.