What do you see?

[darryl]

Yes, a fundamental problem with the false doctrine of eternal hellfire, is that the people in heaven, if conformed to the image of Christ, would not be able to rejoice, but spend all eternity beseeching the Father to let them take the place of the damned. However, if they are happy to be in heaven and watch others burn, they clearly have not been conformed to the image of Jesus Christ!

yes, it doesnt make sense..however, most 'mainstream evangelical ' Christians seem to live with this quite well.....the notion that most of the people that have ever lived will spend eternity in painful misery while the few (in comparison ) 'Redeemed' spend eternity in ecstatic bliss with God....well, God has given me a brain to think with and I think this idea,the idea that trillions will suffer eternal never ending torment while a comparitive few enjoy heavenly bliss,  is wrong, to say the least.

[Dandelion]

I believe one can only see this discrepency, darryl, if they walk in the Spirit.

This world is so fallen and cruel....if you look at things from a flesh/material world, you don't see or feel pain the same as we were made to.

People can become so hardened. If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart. So true.

We begin to make God to fit our world, instead of look to God, to see another view.

Isaiah 55:

8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
            Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.

      9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
            So are My ways higher than your ways
            And My thoughts than your thoughts.

D.

[darryl]

I believe one can only see this discrepency, darryl, if they walk in the Spirit.

This world is so fallen and cruel....if you look at things from a flesh/material world, you don't see or feel pain the same as we were made to.

People can become so hardened. If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart. So true.

We begin to make God to fit our world, instead of look to God, to see another view.

Isaiah 55:

8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
            Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.

      9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
            So are My ways higher than your ways
            And My thoughts than your thoughts.

D.

yes Dandelion, but the problem is I know Christians who do appear to be 'walking in the Spirit' who still believe that people can be lost forever...they say they get this belief from the Bible...sometimes I wish UR were more explicit in the Bible so there's absolutely a 'slam dunk' in favor of UR....the funny thing is after I became a UR believer I could see that there was a 'slam dunk' in favor of UR, going from the Scriptures....hmmmm, I may start a thread about this.

[Dandelion]

And, I know plenty of Christians like that, too.

God will know when it is best to introduce them to UR, and, then the Holy Spirit needs to 'talk' to them about it.

Perhaps we are the ones who are to tell them about it.

D.

[eaglesway]

Because the scriptures are written to be understood by those whose hearts hav become humble before God, there are few "slam dunks".

People who want to see law and legalism in the scriptures will do so. People who want to see grace as a license to sin will do so. People who want to see condemnation and merciless judgment will do so. Those who want to see themselves as a special "elite" will do so.

We can never take the element of the Spirit out of the "mystery". Jesus taught this, "That seeing they might not perceive and hearing they might understand" and called them mysteries of the kingdom, hidden from the foundation of the world.

The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It divides asunder soul and spirit and makes manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Before a believer can rightly divide the word of truth, they must be rightly divided by the sword of the spirit.....but to so many the word of God is not "living and active". It is just words on a page, not a treasure hidden in a field.

But we are only called to be "witnesses". We have to learn to trust God for the "fruit in due season". Believe me..... God is in control and up to the task. Sometimes we must be the voice cyring out in the wirlderness, but this gospel will be proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and eventually every creature under heaven will receive it.