My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
cp
Molly wrote....
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I wrote......
I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.
What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.
cp
oh shoot, I have to run. I'm already late... but I have a feeling I'm going to like this thread... :thumbsup:
:cloud9: Your identity is hid in Christ, cp. Do you know who you are in Christ yet? This is not a trick question or asking for scriptures, but a genuine question. I ask because He has placed within each one of us, our calling and purpose, at least initially (He grows in us). He reveals these things sometimes directly, sometimes through a word through other people. Blessings.....
cp,
aren't you a son/daughter of God? We are sitting on the right hand of the Father at this time. That is something really amazing to think about. We as a son or daughter of God have direct access to the most powerful force in the universe.
We are a citizen of heaven and we no longer have to obey religious rules and regulations on this earth pertaining to human beings that supposedly control and dominate their human relationship to God. We are already with God at this moment sitting in Christ.
CHB
claypot...
I don't know who you are. I don't know who I am. or who anyone is.
Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around. It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored. There are a lot of things that people say, a lot of... I HATE to say "catch-phrases" but that's the only thing I can think of at the moment, that just do very little for me. I did not grow up in church. I don't get the language. Most of the time people say stuff and I just really don't get what they're saying.... I just don't.get.it. Sometimes, it seems to make sense, but then I seem to set them outside of the door with all the others. And it makes me feel a bit...alone. Like the little girl with her nose pressed against the glass peering in at her schoolmates, not able to join in their activities.
I feel like I have my back turned to this present world, this present society and I want nothing to do with it. I don't watch TV, I can't stand popular culture, I reject so much of this present world. I don't reject people, just society and people's current ways. I'm deeply sensitive and living in this world is near torture. I keep to myself and abhor going out in the world. If I could, I would spend every waking moment in my backyard just being out in nature. That is when I feel the most ok with me. That is when I feel the closest to God. I LOVE His creation.
But then, since I have my back turned to "Society", I am facing those wanting to know God, and I find myself turning from them as well because I feel I am on the outside looking in. Like I don't belong. I don't understand the language. So I am alone. With an easel set up, painting little pictures of what I think the world should be like and what I hold in my heart to be the truth. I just sit and paint my pictures.... and hold onto my little scraps of what I perceive to be truth. I, used to feel "less than" most of the time, but am slowly learning that I am just..me.
And I am slowly learning that I guess God is ok with "just...me". We are all different. But every life serves a purpose. The low and the high... all will serve a purpose in His grand plan.
So, I don't know who you are, or who I am.... or who anyone is.
But, I can try to describe some of my paintings. My main "painting" is of a supreme being, a creator, GOD... who has created a wonderful existence full of beauty and wonder and amazing things and this is the reality HE wants to live in. Just a beautiful paradise, full of all sorts of wonders, water, air, animals, love, joy and happiness, and He knows that in order for this wonderful existance to be REAL and for it to WORK is for all of creation to be subjected to this existence APART from Him so that we may SEE him for who HE really is, and so that we may be able to EXIST with Him for eternity. We have to basically "rule ourselves", have human rulers, have a world that is somewhat created BY MAN in order to realize that we N-E-E-D God. IF we only EVER knew paradise, we wouldn't be REAL. God's wonderful existence He created would not be REAL. We MUST know the dark in order to SEE and understand and VALUE the light. So that we can SEE and UNDERSTAND LOVE. So that we can THEN see and understand that GOD **IS** LOVE! We would not VALUE our Creator.... if we were never able to STAND BACK and see Him for who He truly is. This life we live on earth is our grand "Standing back" to to speak.
I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.
I feel that my REAL home is waiting for me to enter. I feel my spirit is waiting to enter it's REAL body.
What kind of body? who knows! But I believe it will be something I can see and feel.
Kind of like a seed that turns into a flower. Looking at the seed, you would never in a million years dream that it could turn into such a beautiful thing! I see our current physical bodies that way.
My current physical body may disappear into the dust, but the "ME!" gets put into it's real home. a new REAL "body" of some sorts. I just see everyone being so happy and completely in love with God and with each other and with ALL of creation... and just all the animals and flowers, and wondrous things we don't even know about, just this wonderful beautiful world...
Funny, but it reminds me of the Velveteen Rabbit...
The little stuffed animal rabbit cried a real tear, and then turned into a real rabbit.
We have to experience the darkness, in order to become REAL. We have to stand back so we can SEE GOD.
and so that we can finally become... REAL.
Death is the doorway to REALITY.
peace...
sparrow
In physics, when two equal but opposing charges are brought together, they annhiliate each other and birth light. In the thought/emotion world, when "good" and "bad" are brought together, and balanced; the thots annihilate each other and birth love/light. The imbalanced thot life is the carnal mind, dominated by perception/senses.
All things in our universe are perfectly divinely balanced. God is in control, and all is as it should be.
Could it be that our senses/perceptions deceive us in not being able to see this perfect divine balance and mislead us into "waiting" for "some day" when all will be perfect. When we separate ourselves into seeing only "good" or "bad" in situations, the divine balance is not seen and we "hope and wait for greener pastures". Our "light" is scattered. You no longer are present. When we balance our perceptions, and the "good/bad" are annhilated, LOVE is birthed and we are present, yet outside of "time".
who are we?? WE are LOVE. We are LIGHT. We are a hologram of HIM. We are divine balance.
The crafty serpent is so good at drawing our energy away from balance, and scattering our LIGHT. The mind of Christ, is a peace beyond the "mind/understanding". When we are in tune with his divine balance, light is birthed. We don't need to wait for "some day" to experience HIM NOW.
NOW is the day of salvation. Peace beyond understanding is ours NOW.
:cloud9: That was interesting Zeek, I liked that..... :thumbsup:
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
cp
Molly wrote....
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I wrote......
I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.
What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.
cp
Hello Claypot....
Read Ephesians 1.... you. me, others like us are described therin.
Grace and Peace to you....always!
Great God in Heaven Sparrow, you nailed my feelings perfectly when you wrote this.....
Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around. It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.
I will be rereading these and your other thoughts a few more times as they speak volumes.
Card, you wrote....
Your identity is hid in Christ, cp. Do you know who you are in Christ yet?
To be honest Card, I don't know what this means. I really don't. This may frustrate you and I don't want to do that so be patient with me. I do feel something in relation to what you asked. When I say I seem like a thought of God maybe this is kind of what is implied here.
CHB, I suppose I am a son of God in head knowledge but as to what this means in my acutal being and day to day life I don't know. It is something amazing to think about and I have a million amazing things to think about thanks to you and many others here but I am kind of tired of thinking of amazing things. I want to really experience God. I mean really, literally, right now experience God in all His glory......well at least much more than I do now.
Zeek, your thoughts are cool. Very close to what I am looking for. I will be rereading your thoughts too.
SpiritDriven, I'm off to Eph 1 right now! Thanks.
I feel outside the door of what I know in my mind to be true.
cp
Quote from: cpHearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around. It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.
It's ok. We are like the temple, yes? The temple has three parts. What you are describing, it seems to me, is the outer court. As Cardinal says, in the outer court we look up and see the stars in heaven, the beauty of his world, and see God in the literal, in his creation.
But, there are two other parts to the temple. Can you take this on faith and keep pressing into it?
He will unfold it all to you in the right season.
Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Quote from: Molly on March 01, 2009, 03:00:13 AM
Quote from: cpHearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around. It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.
It's ok. We are like the temple, yes? The temple has three parts. What you are describing, it seems to me, is the outer court. As Cardinal says, in the outer court we look up and see the stars in heaven, the beauty of his world, and see God in the literal, in his creation.
But, there are two other parts to the temple. Can you take this on faith and keep pressing into it?
He will unfold it all to you in the right season.
Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Good words Molly. I do feel as though I am in the outer court.
cp
Sparrow you wrote....
I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.
Just a thought does not do what I had in mind justice. Can you imagine what it would be for God to think us up? Oh the process, the detail, the intimacy to do such a thing. The planning of such a creation. Its beginning and end. The joy God would have in thinking such a thing. The joy of thinking through all the details, all the pitfalls and adventures.
Oh I can well imagine being a thought of God.
Another thought that came to me is summed up in this thought.....
All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withers, the flower fades: because the spirit of the LORD blows upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fades:Is40.6
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 01, 2009, 03:35:18 AM
Sparrow you wrote....
I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.
Just a thought does not do what I had in mind justice. Can you imagine what it would be for God to think us up? Oh the process, the detail, the intimacy to do such a thing. The planning of such a creation. Its beginning and end. The joy God would have in thinking such a thing. The joy of thinking through all the details, all the pitfalls and adventures.
Oh I can well imagine being a thought of God.
Another thought that came to me is summed up in this thought.....
Thanks for shedding light onto that! (When I saw the words "God's thought" my mind kind of instantly went back to something that a person I knew a long time ago, had said... and it was not at all what you seem to be talking about! They were talking about what if we were only a mere passing thought that God had, and we don't even really exist and nothing REALLY exists, and there is no meaning to anything at all.. it went a lot deeper than that, but it was a very desolate, depressing, thing this person was describing.)
Anyway, back to you... That is very interesting, what you said. That is a really good "pondering" thing you just gave me. That is a pretty wild thing to think about, thinking about God thinking all of this stuff up. wow.
Molly.... see... I don't understand.
I am surely, then in the outer court.
I can see the future, in my mind's eye and that is where I live most of the time, in my mind and in my heart.
BUT.
I am still in time.
I am still attached physically to this world.
BAD things are still happening all around me, TO me, to my loved ones.
If my legs are broken... they are still broken NOW. I may know in my heart, that I am spirit... but my spirit is still TRAPPED here in this body, in this world right NOW. I will not be released FULLY until I die.
I may be released partially because I have faith.
God can console me...
My loved ones who are dead... I do feel joy because I know that they are not really dead. I know that I will be reunited.
I can STILL feel joy even though things around me may crumble because I know this world is temporary, just a schoolyard for us to learn. I see murderers and people who committ atrocities and I love them knowing that they are my brothers and sisters. I truly feel this. More than anyone else I've ever met in my life, people do not understand how I can have compassion like this...
but I must still be in some "outer court" because I do not understand... what this "inner court" is.
I just don't get it.
If anything, I guess I'd think an "inner court" is a degree of understanding or faith.
Do I possess this understanding but I am just trying to lay out in terms that I can understand in this physical world?
maybe I am not making sense...
Quote from: claypot on March 01, 2009, 03:16:44 AM
Good words Molly. I do feel as though I am in the outer court. cp
:cloud9: I intended to add some more when I could and I can see I need to explain some of what I posted. There is a macrocosm (world view) and there is a mircocosm (personal view). What I listed in the Tabernacle thread is both at the same time. Let me explain.
In the personal view, all of us obviously have an outer court/body of flesh/desires of the flesh, but we don't all live exclusively out of that realm. But at the same time, in the world view, a lot of people do, that don't yet have a personal relationship with Christ.
The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.
This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
cp
You are nothing more than an accumulation of atoms. You are nothing more than 90% water and 10% dimestore chemicals. You are nothing more than sludge that developed into a human being over a period of a zillion years.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2009, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
cp
You are nothing more than an accumulation of atoms. You are nothing more than 90% water and 10% dimestore chemicals. You are nothing more than sludge that developed into a human being over a period of a zillion years.
Brian, now we're talkin!
Card, you wrote....
The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.
This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....It does help. I do feel an 'anointing'. I have questions. Why do I have questions? I mean I really have questions. I have enough brain power to ask questions I can't get answers to. I have enough of a mind to know enough to argue endlessly.
This seeing through a glass darkly is so frustrating, close to actual cruelty on the part of God. Like hanging a carrot in front of a race horse.
Here are other thoughts I've been having.
Everyone here on this forum will be gone in a measly 100 years, probably for most of us, much less. Even all our kids or any kids we know will be gone in this 100 years. Most, if not all of us, will be forgotten in this time frame. Talk about grass or a vapor. What the heck am I, I ask again. Why am I made to exist for such a brief, very brief, time?
In this time I hate with the best of them. I cheat, lie, steal, murder, cry, hurt. I do all these things at some level. I also laugh, am honest, feel great, soar, jump for joy at times. In my small lifetime I do all these things. I question God, I ignore God. I can make someones day or I can ruin it. What am I?
Why can I think just so far and no more, and for that matter, no less. Sometimes I think it would be a blessing to think far less!
cp
:cloud9: cp, use that brain power to question HIM constantly. That's what I do. I meditate on scriptures, asking Him what they mean, and eventually, through some means, He reveals the answer I was looking for.
My focus has never been on the brevity of this life, except perhaps when I was deathly ill a couple of nights last year, and thought I would die. The reason for that is because He showed me 23 years ago, that He never intended for Adam to die, but rather to live to that 1000 year mark, which is symbolic of the year of the Lord, which is not to be focused on as a millennial period of time, but as a PERSON; a person we are to enter fully into and have these bodies changed with death/corruption swallowed up by His incorruption. This may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's all I've got. Blessings....
cp,
Brian got it wrong, we are DIRT. We are a work in progress and it doesn't yet appear what we shall be but when he appears, we know we will be like him. Just think, we went from dirt to flesh and we will go from flesh to spirit one day. We have taken one step, we have one to go. Can you imagine being dirt at some point? We are here to work, live, love and die to become like God.
We are servants of Christ, here to magnify Christ in our body (Phil. 1:20).
We were created in his image so we look like him as far as having head, arms, legs, feet, eyes.
We were created to create, to become like Him and inherit the world someday.
CHB
Encouraging words CHB.
I am just taking a look at the Bible and at our discussions here and about 30 years of my own thoughts and I am wondering. I am not doubting that God is. There is always something 'bigger' out there and the buck has to stop somewhere.
I see a myriad of gambits out there. There are many many explanations about who and what God is and who or what we are. There seems to be bits of truth here and there. The Bible covers an extremely wide range of ideas.
People need to stick with one system it seems because if you start going from system to system you will just keep going until you die as there are so many out there. The Bible makes not much sense to me but I am learning how to make it work for me as I see others do.
Where I am at now is in a kind of dangerous place. I don't want to but I am challenging God. I hope it falls in the category of reasoning with Him.
It just doesn't make sense. God seems to be playing with us. Intellectually, poetically, physically, spiritually, or any other spin you want to put on the words of Scripture, gets way beyond most humans most, if not all, of the time.
CHB, you write....
We are servants of Christ, here to magnify Christ in our body (Phil. 1:20).
Think about it. What in the world does that really mean.
Oh oh, got to run.....
cp
We each are what we've been called to be by Christ Jesus in this many-membered extraterrestrial Body of Faith. That's why we'll each always believe more than certain creeds of faith that any local, regional, national, or international fellowship of believers will draw up -- no matter how enlightened they'll be.
The transmission will have additional beliefs beyond how it's rooted to the core of the identity and purpose of the automobile from what the engine will believe in it's union with the core identity and purpose of the automobile that it's in. All one automobile, each with a unique purpose.
In one sense, no additional meanings brought to the table by each part of the automobile, but each being entirely different according to the schematic of the manufacturer with a different objective, warranty, sphere of sustainability, and promise of about when it's served it's purpose for the particular generation of mileage that the car has been involved in. Each being entirely different, yet united in purpose and in the core sciences of how they fit together.
Of course, to belong to a Ford or a Chevy the manufacturer has to create [or recreate] the parts to fit in those cars, and there's the specifics of Who is authorized to do so, Who the authorized dealers, mechanics, and salesmen are, etc. There's zero question about that.
Each part fitting where it belongs and very seldom anywhere else beyond where it belongs; each fitting into the purpose and identity of the Car and it's Manufacturer to work within the parameters previously established by the understanding of the physics and mathematics involved by the engineers, laws of the land, the safety, emissions, and environmental regulations involved; each [individual part] guaranteed to last for a prescribed period of mileage under normal useage conditions.
The basics are never in dispute by any of the parts, otherwise the car doesn't function if they're not united in heart, mind, and intent. Each part has to go as far as it'll take the car and in the particular place within the car that'll serve it's purpose so that the car can get to where it needs to get. There's variety of purpose, but not autonomy within the organism of the parts of the car, otherwise those autonomous parts would have to be pulled and replaced and the disguarded part, or parts, in our recycling world, would have to be melted down and used for some other purpose.
Unbelievers are simply unutilized parts that haven't yet been tweeked to fit within the design of the car. But they're not parts of cars by other manufacturers, or inherently able to give their own lives purpose elsewhere in some other manufacturing plant. They're simply displaced, shelved, still in the process of being manufactured, and/or simply haven't been placed into the automobile yet. But they serve no purpose outside of that for which they were created for.
Parts aren't created simply to be disgarded. Sometimes they have to be recalled and remanufactured in order to comply with newer/better regulations and to fit in the next generation of cars and/or to resolve issues of defect. But all of the way back to before having been manufactured from the raw materials that they were made from, there was likely still already Books being kept on where they would ultimately end up, to which developmental plant that they'd be sent to, and likely with some sense already in mind of where they would end up with checkpoints and additional notations being taken along the way from raw material to finished product. So-called finished products don't really mean that they're finished in the sense that one might think.
A finished product is only really finished when it's been engaged and placed within the still greater product than itself so that it can fulfill it's purpose. In other words, is a spark plug finished with it's destiny when it's created or is it's destiny only beginning at that point and finds completion when it's actually within the car that it's supposed to go in and taking the car where it needs to go? Is it a finished product when it simply is, or when it's actually taking everything where it needs to be taken in the way that it alone either fully can, or in the way that it would contribute to the whole reaching their destination?
The Cross of Christ and His Blood have created a New Humanity, but history is only just beginning because all that'll ever be reborn and all that'll ever fit within their purpose as descendants of Christ Jesus rather than descendants of Adam are only just starting to come down the manufacturing line after just having been recreated. They're on the conveyor belt, but aren't yet the active parts of the automobiles that I'll call "History" that they're destined to become.
Many of the parts are still being adjusted in their settings and tolerances, but that doesn't nullify the fact that many parts are actually already in very dynamic usage, speeding through history while obeying the speed and yielding laws of the New Jerusalem with Christ Jesus sitting in the seat that's enwrapped by the car that they're individual parts of. Many are already reigning with Christ Jesus to the ages of ages.
Christ Jesus is more than the One sitting in the seat of the car and the schematics of the car. Thankfully, He's both the computer of the car and the outer exterior that gives all of us our beauty on the road. The Scriptures are the coding that the computer understands and speaks in, as well as the GPS to keep it on track. Father God is actually the One driving the car while at the same time fulfilling the role of being the road and the glorious destination, while the Holy Spirit is the alternative fuel that's adding to and enriching the environment rather than tearing it down.
Hey Martin, I feel like an old rambler sitting in the new car dealership parking lot looking in the windows at all the newness within.
I suppose when going from one state of being to another a person can get anxious as it starts to sense the destination. Going from the 'rich man' identity to the 'Lazuras in Abrahams bosum' identity takes some doing. I can think and dream of it and I do believe I am experiencing it in some small ways but to be fully enveloped in the new is still beyond me in so many ways.
Maybe that's why I ask 'What am I?' I feel like I'm in a state of flux, always changing. Not solid yet.
cp
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
You are a instrument created by God, to serve the purpose He created you for.
Life, religion, belief will beat the tar out of us if we do not separate our inherant worth from what life seems to make us think.
We don't have to be anything, we are alive and therefor inherantly important.
Life makes us think that we have to be a certain way, think a certain way or hope for something in order to have any significance.
If I am completely wrong about what I believe it is irrevalent to whether I am worth something or have significance. I am alive, therefor have worth.
Quote from: Brian on March 02, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
You are a instrument created by God, to serve the purpose He created you for.
An instrument, like maybe a thought or a note on the scale in the musical sphere of His 'mind'?
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 02, 2009, 07:02:29 PM
Life, religion, belief will beat the tar out of us if we do not separate our inherant worth from what life seems to make us think.
We don't have to be anything, we are alive and therefor inherantly important.
Life makes us think that we have to be a certain way, think a certain way or hope for something in order to have any significance.
If I am completely wrong about what I believe it is irrevalent to whether I am worth something or have significance. I am alive, therefor have worth.
Words I need to hear Paul. Thanks.
Just to be thought up by God makes us extremely special or as you said, just to be alive.
When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?
cp
You can not base what/who you are on what you feel, see, or think. If you want to know who/what you are . . .it's not going to come by way of someone "telling" you who you are . .but only by God revealing to "you" who "you" are.
The real question for me is . . . can I accept who he says I am? Or will I dismiss who he says I am in favor of my own opinion of what I "think"?
Quote from: claypot on March 02, 2009, 07:57:46 PM
When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?
Basically our experiences in life to be more specific.
As a Young child I sensed something that was greater than me and it is very hard to describe but I felt I was loved just because I was around. As I shared that with others, I unfortunatly did not share it with anyone who could accept something so simple and real at face value.
Those experiences of glibness or telling me that had to be the holy spirit etc, then thrust me into a world where I had to decifer what everyone else said it meant. I had to decifer the names everyone called what I spoke of along with the ramifications of that name. If it was God of the bible now i had to please this God, I had to believe, i had to, I had to I had to, maybe you see the point I am getting at.
While indeed, it may be the holy spirit in the bible, but what then? Then we have to read about the holy spirit, discern through everyone elses idea of it and hope that what I felt was the holy spirit, but what if it was another spirit, etc etc.
It is not to say we shouldn't try to study, but I had to return to the base of what was the most logical in my own life. I can know that I am someone without any writings whatsoever to figure out. Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
When you get to that point, then you can realize a true honest reason to care about life in the first place. And Then to me it was the only time I could actually care to believe that it mattered that there is something greater than me that is a being comprised completely of what we call LOVE. Pure and uaffected by how we think Love should be.
Hope that made sense.
Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....
Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?
I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 02, 2009, 09:07:36 PM
Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....
Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?
I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.
cp
I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything. It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.
If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.
This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.
Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 02, 2009, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 02, 2009, 09:07:36 PM
Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....
Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?
I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.
cp
I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything. It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.
If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.
This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.
Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.
I think I know what you mean Paul. Life happens to all of us no matter what we believe or know. Life happens.
We learn by reaping what we sow.
cp
to try to get back on topic:
"Zeek, you don't seem to be hearing most of my posts on the subject of me believing I am circumcised and I will be circumcised and I am becoming circumcised. I just cannot see Scripture on one level. It is too much like a diamond to do so. So many faceted to see just one angle.
I am concerned about the responsibility issue. So if you do something wrong like speeding in your car and you go to court, do you say to the judge that it was your flesh doing it not you so you are innocent? Again, I am being serious. You have good responses and I am learning.
cp"
What i believe is that the "flesh" is an identity, a "who we are". It's based off of self, in the absence of revealed unconditional love.
I am not that "identity" anymore, I am ONE with the Father.
To identify with "the flesh" is to deny Christ. My spirit testifies with His Spirit that I am a child of God. I am HIS. Any act or deed that is "sinful" is not me, as that would mean my Father is a sinner. My identity is HIM.
I believe as long as we are humans, there will be "sinful" acts or "wrong doings"; but praise God, I am no longer "identified" with that, it no longer is me. My response is PRAISE and THANKS.
I am the one who is "aware" of these "wrong acts", but no longer the sinner doing them. They can continue, and likely will continue throughout my life; but they are not me.
If I put a chair, a key, and a picture in front of u and asked "which one of these is you", I don't think u'd have a problem saying "none of them". You are the one aware of those objects. Sin, "flesh", "wrong deeds" are things I am aware of, but they are not me. The more I resist doing them, the more identified I am with them, and the more they persist.
oops sorry T, i tried to switch it myself. myight want to put this one in the other thread too.
I'll tackle this on the other thread......
cp
no worries Z...but best ya C and P that post and add add it on the other thread..im not sure we have that capability... :icon_flower:
Ya know, I'm still thinking that it is so interesting to be created with the ability to think beyond what we can ever know. That is one frustrating trait we humans have. Sure, it's great sometimes but often it is frustrating. I suppose for most it is just fine. Live one day at a time. Does anyone really live one day at a time?
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 03, 2009, 04:51:33 AM
Ya know, I'm still thinking that it is so interesting to be created with the ability to think beyond what we can ever know. That is one frustrating trait we humans have. Sure, it's great sometimes but often it is frustrating. I suppose for most it is just fine. Live one day at a time. Does anyone really live one day at a time?
cp
Well, I think we can try. If we are fortunate we can think ahead and build up a saving account, plan for future events, and sometimes those all work out.
Then the washer breaks, the fridge goes and lightning hits the cable line outside the house and takes out the rest of the savings when insurance won't cover everything. Then after that the computer frys.
What do ya do? , lol ;)
Then ya just go day to day trying to build it all back up. So I think for the most part we sometimes are forced to go day by day despite our best efforts.
Then we see our neighbor or friend who never appears to have those troubles and we think it's not fair, or we haven't done something right. But what appears to us is never the whole truth.
We can ponder, hope and wonder, but when the alarm goes off in the morning and you hit snooze one too many times and realize your running late all the looking beyond doesn't help you find the keys to the car any faster. :happy3:
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood
Then we see our neighbor or friend who never appears to have those troubles and we think it's not fair, or we haven't done something right. But what appears to us is never the whole truth.
But if you look around you will find there is someone who is much worse off than you are. I have found this to be true in my life. It reminds me of a poem that went something like, I complained of having no shoes until I met a man without any feet.
I have learned that there is always someone who is worse off than you are. And you know, I believe it is all for a purpose. whatever is my problems could help someone else. None of us live unto ourselves. We learn to give because there is someone in need. We learn to pray because someone is sick. We learn to accept charity and be humble because we are in need. We learn forgivness because someone done us wrong. The list goes on and one. Also, the things that happen in our life make us who we are.
CHB
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM
My question is........
What the heck am I?
Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.
What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.
What am I? Who am I?
cp
Molly wrote....
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I wrote......
I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.
What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.
cp
Believe what God says about you rather than believing your experience...
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 02, 2009, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 02, 2009, 07:57:46 PM
When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?
Basically our experiences in life to be more specific.
As a Young child I sensed something that was greater than me and it is very hard to describe but I felt I was loved just because I was around. As I shared that with others, I unfortunatly did not share it with anyone who could accept something so simple and real at face value.
Those experiences of glibness or telling me that had to be the holy spirit etc, then thrust me into a world where I had to decifer what everyone else said it meant. I had to decifer the names everyone called what I spoke of along with the ramifications of that name. If it was God of the bible now i had to please this God, I had to believe, i had to, I had to I had to, maybe you see the point I am getting at.
While indeed, it may be the holy spirit in the bible, but what then? Then we have to read about the holy spirit, discern through everyone elses idea of it and hope that what I felt was the holy spirit, but what if it was another spirit, etc etc.
It is not to say we shouldn't try to study, but I had to return to the base of what was the most logical in my own life. I can know that I am someone without any writings whatsoever to figure out. Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
When you get to that point, then you can realize a true honest reason to care about life in the first place. And Then to me it was the only time I could actually care to believe that it mattered that there is something greater than me that is a being comprised completely of what we call LOVE. Pure and uaffected by how we think Love should be.
Hope that made sense.
It did make sense.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. He didn't read the Word. The Word spoke to him directly.
Hi Claypot (and all),
I wanted to say that I feel the same way you do (about the original topic).
I remember sitting outside on lunch break one day, and it came to me: "who am I?" (my internal self) and "where did I come from??" "Why can't I remember things before I was born?"
And, "why was I made me and not you?" That is, "could you have been me (and vice versa)?" "What makes us different from each other?"
What's more, when we leave this flesh, how will we recognize each other?
We know so little! And we are so used to looking at things from the flesh and not from within!
And talking doctrine just doesn't cut it; the truth is that we know very little!
Yes, sometimes we can have personal revelations; but it doesn't reach to all equally.
It's a trip.. and so amazing and wonderful!
Brian
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on March 08, 2009, 02:28:07 PM
Hi Claypot (and all),
I wanted to say that I feel the same way you do (about the original topic).
I remember sitting outside on lunch break one day, and it came to me: "who am I?" (my internal self) and "where did I come from??" "Why can't I remember things before I was born?"
And, "why was I made me and not you?" That is, "could you have been me (and vice versa)?" "What makes us different from each other?"
What's more, when we leave this flesh, how will we recognize each other?
We know so little! And we are so used to looking at things from the flesh and not from within!
And talking doctrine just doesn't cut it; the truth is that we know very little!
Yes, sometimes we can have personal revelations; but it doesn't reach to all equally.
It's a trip.. and so amazing and wonderful!
Brian
I hear ya Brian. I wonder sometimes if Scripture is really meant to be understood. It is written in such a way and we are made us in such a way that people have been trying to figure it out since the beginning and only end up more perplexed for their efforts.
There is some comfort to be had through the little we do 'decipher' but here is another very real problem to me. Speaking of all the gymnastics we put into interpreting Scripture, if we were to put a fraction of the energy and imagination into making the words on a cereal box say something else, we could do it.
So many mysteries. We are a mystery as is Scripture as is all creation as is the common cold and, of course, as is God.
Yes, tis a trip and it is amazing and wonderful. I love it and hate it.
cp
Claypot,
I agree with you there, too. It's crossed my mind that maybe scriptures have (also?) been given to make us blind. Those who say they see are made blind, and the blind are made to see.
I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12 and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.
God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)
Brian (the other one on this forum) :)
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on March 08, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Claypot,
God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)
:cloud9: Amen....(to the other Brian) LOL
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on March 08, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Claypot,
I agree with you there, too. It's crossed my mind that maybe scriptures have (also?) been given to make us blind. Those who say they see are made blind, and the blind are made to see.
I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12 and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.
God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)
Brian (the other one on this forum) :)
What I like about the complexity and hugeness of Scripture is I have learned or feel I have been given the right to 'play' with it.
(I try always to honor God and Jesus Christ and find integrity in the human creation and all creation.)
I feel free to 'experiment' with Scripture. I know I get off track often but I also feel God guides me back again like a wayward sheep or ignorant kid. My walk with God took off in a big way when I found this freedom to 'challenge' God. The scary part is is that I get a bit scared that I am treading dangerous waters too often and feel I may flounder but that's when faith kicks in. I fear too taking the grace and love of God for granted but I just haven't found a limit to His eternal love and grace. There seem to be limits to His temporal love and grace if that is a way to put it.
cp
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on March 08, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12 and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.
God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)
"...and to enlighten all as to what is
the fellowsip of the mystery, which has been concealed from the eons in God, Who creates all..." (Ephesians 3:9)
Concordant Literal has "administration of the secret" rather than "the fellowsip of the mystery." The underlying texts used by many of the newer versions use a Greek word meaning "administration," or, "dispensation" rather than "fellowship;" but, "fellowship" is very supported by many manuscripts.
When people get their "doctrine" all cut and dried, what to believe has been decided upon and fences erected already and there's no more research to be done it becomes a dead thing. Many can remember when everything was new, Jesus had just made Himself known to us and we gathered to share the latest thing we'd found about God. We were excitedly sharing our recent experiences and some new treasure we'd found in the Word. The "mystery" was continuously being unfolded among us and we were sharing life. We have fellowship when we open out the mystery between one another, but dry up when we have everything figured out and only to guard it is all we have left.
I also like to "play" with what I'm digging into. It's as though many people are afraid to explore and even confront with new ideas for fear of something. At any rate, for myself, I look at the fruit that is being produced (or not being produced!) as I explore new things. Personally, I have felt a very special, "unmovable" peace in the belief that ALL things are made by Him and for Him. (And that all things move along because of His hand in it.) Hannah Wittall Smith (also on this site) has been a big blessing to me.
"Sharing life" is beautiful to me! It's almost like the wonder of a child when looking up at the stars!
Blessings to all,
(the other) Brian
:cloud9: Me too, Brian. It doesn't bother me at all anymore, He has shook me so much with revelations outside the "mainstream" over the years, it's like, what is one more "earthquake", LOL......I'm like a kid in a candy store, still, after all these years, thrilled to death when He shows me something. He has to laugh at it all, in joy of seeing His kids being blessed.......Blessings....
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 02, 2009, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 02, 2009, 09:07:36 PM
Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....
Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.
Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?
I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.
cp
I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything. It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.
If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.
This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.
Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.
After all our amazing insights, I too wonder if it all comes down to what you say Paul. Be good and when you realize you fall short of this, hope like crazy their is a God that will take you in.
All I want is contentment and I think that is all anyone wants. Wherever we find it will be our home.
cp
I hear what you guys are saying.
I mean, even Jesus said: "hey I know what your scriptures say, but I say..."
(Referring to the whole eye for an eye vs. love your enemies thing)
Good point Doc.
Is God pulling a fast one on us with Scripture do you think?
Again I ask this with utmost respect for God and His Word.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 10, 2009, 12:44:14 AM
Good point Doc.
Is God pulling a fast one on us with Scripture do you think?
Again I ask this with utmost respect for God and His Word.
cp
No, I don't think he's pulling a fast one. I think He just wants to show us we can't possibly understand his intent without truly knowing
Him.
Then too, Jesus did infact say, "I came to make the blind see.--and that those that see be made blind."
So God gives sight, and He makes blind!
Blessings,
(the other) Brian
Quote from: whyiloveitaly on March 11, 2009, 03:53:31 PM
Then too, Jesus did infact say, "I came to make the blind see.--and that those that see be made blind."
So God gives sight, and He makes blind!
Blessings,
(the other) Brian
Once God makes those that see blind then He can make them see for they are blind, right?
cp
cp,
That might just be how He works. For example, He also put all under disobedience in order to have mercy on all.
And He put all under Adam in order to put all under Christ.
Brian
Seems to be. God is a mysterious One. The first last and the last first and all that.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:49:58 PM
Seems to be. God is a mysterious One. The first last and the last first and all that.
cp
Actually, I don't think he started out as being mysterious in the beginning . .but when Adam misaligned the order of God's creation in him by submitting to Eve and eating of knowledge. After that, the veil was put into place where now, everything we think God is . .is the opposite of who God really is. We're the ones that made him mysterious .. . Jesus work enabled us to return back to the clarity of love in the beginning . . . we're just having trouble maturing in that clarity. But it's coming.
Quote from: Nathan on March 11, 2009, 10:01:24 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 08:49:58 PM
Seems to be. God is a mysterious One. The first last and the last first and all that.
cp
Actually, I don't think he started out as being mysterious in the beginning . .but when Adam misaligned the order of God's creation in him by submitting to Eve and eating of knowledge. After that, the veil was put into place where now, everything we think God is . .is the opposite of who God really is. We're the ones that made him mysterious .. . Jesus work enabled us to return back to the clarity of love in the beginning . . . we're just having trouble maturing in that clarity. But it's coming.
Makes sense. Everything is backwards now. The good in the parables get the shaft and the bad guys win out, Jesus gets beat to a pulp while Barrabas takes a walk, the last first and the first last, if you hate your ma and pa then you are my disciple and so on.
I might say though, that God probably could have still amazed us with a few tricks even when we were in top form!
cp
The Word incarnate and the written Word are both a veil. They simultaneously reveal and hide. Some saw Jesus as God manifesting in flesh, their Messiah, and others saw Him as something to plot against and destroy. Many today seek to destroy the Bible from their country. Some, all too few, exalt what is written, as Ghana or Fiji that has declared themselves Christian, which is at least a start. The same is true of the written Word as the Word made flesh. Many see God in us and are attracted and blessed and others hate us without a cause.
Think of all the people you've encountered in the time you've been alive. Through how many of them has God been manifested to you? For me it is very few and usually not recognized by me until later . . . and even then I couldn't be aware enough to get myself to pursue Him in them, though I made resolutions to do so. Why, if so many actually know God as they claim, is their impartation of Him so next to nothing? No doubt, God is real; but, He hides Himself.
Most would go to God if He was something they could use to their own purposes. He is vulnerable in a way something like that so He hides Himself. You know in yourself How love makes you vulnerable. If you love people will take advantage of you. It is one of the things I've had to resign myself to. If I love I will be taken advantage of and hurt. I choose to love knowing that. It is necessary or you will take offense and be unable to love. As it has developed I discover I am hidden.
Like at a church out in the country here . . . I can't reveal all I know to them. As it is I probably go too far. It is more than likely I will be called a heretic and a deceiver somewhere up the road. Some of the good that I can do I will try for now; but, I suffer from the things they say and do. I'm not sure I can continue. I don't have enough love, or, as is more likely, not enough wisdom to overcome, perhaps . . . Love is the motive to keep at it and wisdom is how to maintain the opportunity of speaking the truth in love.
I'm there because I perceive God is doing something among them. But that doesn't mean it makes a place for me. Oh, how we long to be loved! I know family members can sometimes ruin your life; but, for many I've met, their family in Adam keeps them busy enough and satiated enough they seem not to care about the lack of love in their church. The single person, whether as a youth or one who's mate is gone can't even find a dry crust of welcoming fellowship. At best, they have enough with their little clique of old acquaintances and can't be bothered with anyone new. The unloved at least has the advantage of needing to seek out a spiritual fellowship. There are many churches where their titled leader wrongly cast out as evil those children of the light with good things to scatter among them. I wonder how many of the enabling silent audience repented over complicity in such tragedies. How many even care enough to recognize the anguish they've inflicted? "When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase." (Pv 28:28, AV)
Once again, my brother Reformer....you are filled with the RICHES OF CHRIST.
Oh! My brother....I DO see Him in you...I hear Him in you....there is a weightiness of His wisdom and glory that has been wrought within you....to the Lord be praised!
I am blessed....and I understand the price that you have paid to bring forth these nuggets that you now so freely share with us.
Thank you for my brother....
Your sister,
DoD
Wow,
the longer I am on this forum and the more I come to know
the people here!. what a work Father has been doing.
Reformer,yes, to some we are the odour of death, to others
the fragrance of life.
Sheila
Quote from: reFORMer on March 13, 2009, 12:19:36 AM
The Word incarnate and the written Word are both a veil.
:cloud9: If just this sentence alone is truly revealed to someone, what a harvest of revelation is at the door. :thumbsup: Good post. Blessings....