One of the only things that I have trouble with regarding universalism is the problem of evil :BangHead:
Ok, what about the demons who "believe and tremble?"(James 2:19) will they be reconciled back to God? And will Satan be one of those who will confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord"?
A huge problem I have is that if Satan was created purely for the purpose of tormenting and deceiving humans then isn't the God who created Satan really the source of all evil? If Satan has no will and is basically a puppet of evil deeds, then how does that fit with a universal reconciliation of God's creation?
As it relates to the human race, I like universalism and it reconciles many questions I have...but I can't seem to reconcile the problem of evil.
Yeah but you should learn a thing from me, God did create evil, he said it plainly in the bible "I create light and darkness, I create good and evil"
Who put tree of knowlegde of good and evil?
Who told Eve not to eat the fruit but didn't warn about the snake?
Who made sin and it isn't us!
Who made people harden their's heart and made them stubborn so they can't understand the mose of law?
Who choose abel over cain when they gave offer to God?
Who is the not the respecter of person?
We all know who did this, God, no doubt did all that and why? Because he know what he doing and some people and maybe satan hate the idea of not having free wills, oppose God because God is the one in control, because without God, everything is gone, there no control, there no life or death, no weather or space weather, there no happy or anger, either sad or other.
Good example of this: If the creator of peanut, Charlie died before he ever made the newspaper, his cartoon also died ith him, so this is the biggest answer: If God dead, everything he made became "poof"
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
Let me give you a good example why God did this whole things:
Image you created a daughter, and she have no feeling and knowledge, like a robot, do you like everytime you play piano and you ask her, "how do you like it?" and she always answer "yes" to everything you ever did?
That how God feel, God want our opinon, worhip him or not, love him or not, believe or not
Remember God love you and he know what you going to type next, but remember God want you be yourself, this is why God create abel and cain to be differant, and yet God didn't kill Cain because he knew that respecter of person isn't going to work for God
God want everyone to be differant
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
Have you ever heard the phrase "The best view of Heaven is from Hell?" I think that there is much more truth in this statment than most people realize. I believe that we can not truly appreciate love unless we know hate and we can not truly know good unless we know evil. Paul says in Romans 11:32 that God has shut all in disobedience so that He can have mercy on all. Earlier, in Romans 8, Paul says the God Himself subjected all of creation to futility so that He could one day free it into glory. So bascially, God has subject all of creation to it's horrible condition so that He can one day reconcile it back to Himself. But why the merry-go-round? Why not just create everything in a state of perfection from the get go? Like I said, I believe it is so we can truly appreciate what is one day in store for us. I believe that it will be so amazing that everything we go through here and now will not even matter.
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
I see the way that God creates evil in the same way that sunlight creates shadow. If there was no sun, there would be no shadow. You can't have darkness without the light, nor can you know what light is without the darkness. Evil is a "side effect" of the light. God is light and
in Him is no darkness at all. The same is true of the sun, yet its presence causes objects blocking its light to cast shadows.
Quote from: Doc on April 03, 2009, 02:23:17 AM
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
I see the way that God creates evil in the same way that sunlight creates shadow. If there was no sun, there would be no shadow. You can't have darkness without the light, nor can you know what light is without the darkness. Evil is a "side effect" of the light. God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. The same is true of the sun, yet its presence causes objects blocking its light to cast shadows.
Great example Doc. I think another cool one is hot and cold. Technically, there is no such thing as cold. There is only heat and cold is a word to describe a lack of heat. Huh, science class actually paid off!
Quote from: IceDash on April 03, 2009, 01:52:43 AM
Let me give you a good example why God did this whole things:
Image you created a daughter, and she have no feeling and knowledge, like a robot, do you like everytime you play piano and you ask her, "how do you like it?" and she always answer "yes" to everything you ever did?
That how God feel, God want our opinon, worhip him or not, love him or not, believe or not
Remember God love you and he know what you going to type next, but remember God want you be yourself, this is why God create abel and cain to be differant, and yet God didn't kill Cain because he knew that respecter of person isn't going to work for God
God want everyone to be differant
:thumbsup: I like your post, IceDash.
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: Jerm on April 03, 2009, 02:10:57 AM
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
Have you ever heard the phrase "The best view of Heaven is from Hell?" I think that there is much more truth in this statment than most people realize. I believe that we can not truly appreciate love unless we know hate and we can not truly know good unless we know evil. Paul says in Romans 11:32 that God has shut all in disobedience so that He can have mercy on all. Earlier, in Romans 8, Paul says the God Himself subjected all of creation to futility so that He could one day free it into glory. So bascially, God has subject all of creation to it's horrible condition so that He can one day reconcile it back to Himself. But why the merry-go-round? Why not just create everything in a state of perfection from the get go? Like I said, I believe it is so we can truly appreciate what is one day in store for us. I believe that it will be so amazing that everything we go through here and now will not even matter.
Let me shout from the mountaintops...
YES.
YES.
YES.
:thumbsup:
Though we do not see it in this physical world with our physial eyes
the Lion shall lay down beside the Lamb.
We know who the Lamb is in the scriptures
the Lamb slayen from the foundation of the World.
in what has been given to me to see this is that God made Satan for a purpose
Satan is faithful to carry out what God has
put him in creation to do,
He is pointed out in Scripture to be:
The waster, the sifter, the smith, the serpent, the dragon and some other things as well, he is also pointed out to be as a roaring Lion, he can transform into an angel of light, which this may be what he did in the Garden regarding the tree OKOGAE, God did not intervene and tell Eve that Satan was a liar and a murderer
from the begining, how would Eve know what those things meant even if God had intervened? It appears as Gods plan all along, from my pov. Satan is a spirit so is Satan reconciled? The answer to me would it seems depend weather Satan is a being or a shadow, because in scripture it reveals God created all of creation, yet in scripture it also says God formed the crooked serpent by his hands at arms length.
This leads me to say that Gods plan for mankind is the reconciliation of all things
Now weather there is a reconciling of Satan and the evil spirits would to me depend on weather Satan is a being or a shadow and if God has a plan for the angelic realm of creation which I believe he does, is a question I leave to God to answer when it is revealed.
Peace
Fire Walker
Quote from: Jerm on April 03, 2009, 02:10:57 AM
Have you ever heard the phrase "The best view of Heaven is from Hell?" I think that there is much more truth in this statment than most people realize. I believe that we can not truly appreciate love unless we know hate and we can not truly know good unless we know evil. Paul says in Romans 11:32 that God has shut all in disobedience so that He can have mercy on all. Earlier, in Romans 8, Paul says the God Himself subjected all of creation to futility so that He could one day free it into glory. So bascially, God has subject all of creation to it's horrible condition so that He can one day reconcile it back to Himself. But why the merry-go-round? Why not just create everything in a state of perfection from the get go? Like I said, I believe it is so we can truly appreciate what is one day in store for us. I believe that it will be so amazing that everything we go through here and now will not even matter.
:thumbsup:
It also ture that God know that everything he made is good and said to himself "everything is good, but......I want someone's else opinon"
Of course there lie within aproblem, he knew what their's opinon going to be, I can't iamge how it feel like to be God, knowing everything and no suprise!
For example, you mom going to buy a present for your birthday, and you knew what she is buying and what it feel like using that present in the future....how did God handle this "knowing everything!"
If God know we love him or not, why he demand worship so bad if he knew we won't do it?
if God know we going to sins or not, why God hate the sins so much if he knew it going to be solved anyway?
If God knew he going to die on the cross to die for us, why he didn't just die on the cross after adam, oh yeah there only 2 people on the planet, excuse me.....
If God KNEW EVERYTHING, that's mean nothing suprise him!
I love God so much but I wish he doesn't know for just one day so we can suprise him, but there a problem, I know that God going to said thsi:
"If I forget what going on for just one day, who going to watch out for the black hole? Who going to answer 5 billion prayers in a just second? Who watching the weather in all the planets? Who going to pronounced dead? Who going to die? Who get to live? Who going to open the bird'e eye? Who going to deliver the baby? Who going to cause earthqauke? Who gong to pop a supernova star? Who watching flowers, not on just earth but the whole universe? Who will guide the groundhog? Who will water the ground for the tree? Who going to burn the forest for blanace nature? Who will do all this for just one each day, who?!"
I will answer this to God: "ummmm........"
Quote from: IceDash on April 03, 2009, 03:27:29 AM
I love God so much but I wish he doesn't know for just one day so we can suprise him,...
I loved your post, IceDash..
but I especially loved that.
What a beautiful sentiment.
love it!!
Wow. I hope this makes sense, but I wish I could have seen God's face when he read what you just wrote. I'm sure it would have been just...a beautiful sight. :icon_flower: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: sparrow on April 03, 2009, 04:30:26 AM
Quote from: IceDash on April 03, 2009, 03:27:29 AM
I love God so much but I wish he doesn't know for just one day so we can suprise him,...
I loved your post, IceDash..
but I especially loved that.
What a beautiful sentiment.
love it!!
Wow. I hope this makes sense, but I wish I could have seen God's face when he read what you just wrote. I'm sure it would have been just...a beautiful sight. :icon_flower: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I know, his face always shine...
:gimmefive:
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:07:17 AM
One of the only things that I have trouble with regarding universalism is the problem of evil :BangHead:
Ok, what about the demons who "believe and tremble?"(James 2:19) will they be reconciled back to God? And will Satan be one of those who will confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord"?
A huge problem I have is that if Satan was created purely for the purpose of tormenting and deceiving humans then isn't the God who created Satan really the source of all evil? If Satan has no will and is basically a puppet of evil deeds, then how does that fit with a universal reconciliation of God's creation?
As it relates to the human race, I like universalism and it reconciles many questions I have...but I can't seem to reconcile the problem of evil.
Great questions. Let me see if I can help. I have a different opinion than others about who Satan is and what Demons are. I believe Satan is a reference to the disobedient nature of man. Consider the Garden of Eden. The Serpent that is talking to Eve, I believe is Adam but more specifically the exhibition of that disobedient nature of Adam. Demons are components or messengers of that disobedient nature as well.
So having said that, my belief is that Satan and Demons will be annhilated. In other words, that evil nature will be utterly destroyed and cease to exists forevermore when the time comes.
Paul
Quote from: trettep on April 03, 2009, 06:06:57 AM
I have a different opinion than others about who Satan is and what Demons are ...In other words, that evil nature will be utterly destroyed and cease to exists ...when the time comes.
:dsunny:
"Only when one sees the light!"peacemaker
Quote from: sparrow on April 03, 2009, 04:30:26 AM
Quote from: IceDash on April 03, 2009, 03:27:29 AM
I love God so much but I wish he doesn't know for just one day so we can suprise him,...
I loved your post, IceDash..
but I especially loved that.
What a beautiful sentiment.
love it!!
Wow. I hope this makes sense, but I wish I could have seen God's face when he read what you just wrote. I'm sure it would have been just...a beautiful sight. :icon_flower: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Me too..... :thumbsup:
:cloud9: I think the simplest explanation is that everything came out of God and everything returns to God. God is a consuming fire, consuming everything that is not like Him. I don't think that means to it's destruction in the sense that it no longer exists, but to it's nature change being changed like unto His glorious nature. Satan becomes a footstool, ie. nature change, once the adversarial (to us) nature is overcome. My :2c: Blessings....
Start here, the article is to long to post but too good to pass up... :thumbsup:
http://www.gtft.org/Library/adams/027ThePurposeOfEvil.htm
Peace in your search,
Paul
Quote from: Doc on April 03, 2009, 02:23:17 AM
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
I mean, in one sense He did create both light and dark, but in Him there is no darkness right? So then we have a contradiction of sorts...That God is incapable of doing evil yet He is the very source of evil...
Still confused...Your theory is nice that God is infact the source of evil...My question is why? If He really wants to reconcile all of creation, then why does he create some to be evil puppets doomed for torment? Why the detour of sin and death? Of course we have the blame game...Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake...but infact, it was God who cursed humanity...since His ultimate goal is universal reconciliation, then was all that really needed?
I see the way that God creates evil in the same way that sunlight creates shadow. If there was no sun, there would be no shadow. You can't have darkness without the light, nor can you know what light is without the darkness. Evil is a "side effect" of the light. God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. The same is true of the sun, yet its presence causes objects blocking its light to cast shadows.
Many verses state God creates/manages evil/calamity. But also darkness (=evil) is the absense of light (=God)
Darkness can't be expossed without light. So, Doc, perhaps the shadow in your example is just that. Darkness exposed.
Tree of knowledge of good and evil was needed to see evil. So evil isn't (always) that obvious. :dontknow:
Hi cityonahill,
Read some articles about the purpose of evil. If you really study it and read the scriptures, you will realize God intended it all, and he's gonna reconcile it all in the end. That even includes Satan & his minions! Read the bible & believe it:
2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
1 Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Ray Smith has some good articles about the purpose of the lake of fire/evil/everything here:
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
.... this is a many part series (up to part 16E so far) - read them all!
Legoman
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:42:51 AM
So does God have a split personality...??
No God does not have a split personality :Sparkletooth:
He hates evil, yet He created it. (Isaiah 45:7)
He is giving us an experience of evil so we will be humbled, and so we will be able to learn how to be good.
Ecc 1:13 (concordant) It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity
to humble them by it.
That one verse says a lot about God's plan. Here is another verse that says a lot about God's plan:
Isaiah 26:9 ...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world
will learn righteousness.
Be well, and enjoy the ride!
Legoman
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:07:17 AM
One of the only things that I have trouble with regarding universalism is the problem of evil :BangHead:
Ok, what about the demons who "believe and tremble?"(James 2:19) will they be reconciled back to God? And will Satan be one of those who will confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord"?
A huge problem I have is that if Satan was created purely for the purpose of tormenting and deceiving humans then isn't the God who created Satan really the source of all evil? If Satan has no will and is basically a puppet of evil deeds, then how does that fit with a universal reconciliation of God's creation?
As it relates to the human race, I like universalism and it reconciles many questions I have...but I can't seem to reconcile the problem of evil.
City, for a different perspective read the potter and His clay thread.
ID
YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL SURPRISE AWAITING YOU!!
Father does this so often, anything that comes up out of
heart for Him.[spontaneous].he does for us.
ex; David wanted to build the temple for the Lord..the Lord
built David a house. He is very tender in affection,our Father.
Bless you,ID
Sheila
God's purpose for EVIL
the serpent is a rod of discipline in the Lords hands
when the children take the hand of the serpent through
disobediance and accepts the spirit of rebellion..the
consequences of evil and all the suffering of it..
can make the child repent and return unto the Father.
All mankind down here on earth are children..and the heart
of a child is full of folly. Do not forsake the rod of discipline.
The law of sowing and reaping applies as long as we remain in
the flesh on this earth. And when we do repent from sin..and
suffer evilfor doing good ...the rod tests us..For he who has
suffered[for doing right] has desisted from sin.
Obediance is perfected through suffering.
good and evil will be sown as long as the earth exists...
and harvest time will also continue as long as the earth exists
He that loves His child does look for him with discipline
The adversary is needed until the children mature and learn
obediance.Repent,turn to doing right then suffer for doing right
Now our big brothers and sister's in heaven...holy angels
have already been perfected and cast satan out of the heavens
They suffered evil while obeying God [ex; Michael not daring to
rebuke satan in the dispute over Moses body]
During that spiritual warfare in heaven satan and his
messengers were not strong enough to overcome God's
obediant angels..they suffered satan in heaven.
Now satan is confined to the earth, and the angels of heaven
are in union with their little brothers down here still dwelling on
the earth. Now we are at a disadvantage due to the weakness
of our flesh and our power is small..but they are powerful and
will come with Jesus to help us win the spiritual war.They are
the true saviours of Mt Zion. Michael will stand up refers to this
very thing.
They will ride the more mature children down here as horses in
the spiritual battle.. And as they are united with us in heart
as the weaker vessel..so too, we are united in heart with those
here on earth that are weaker vessels, and serve as saviours
on Mt Zion to them.
It is all spiritual warfare and conducted righteously and not
against flesh a nd blood..because flesh and blood is not the
enemy but the enemy is spiritual.
God Himself finishes our training..and those that are glorified
in heaven[angelic brothers and sisters]suffer for doing God's will
in this way.Putting up in love with the evil that is present in
our flesh, loving us and ministering to us. you all know that
the Holy spirit[and all holy spiritual children] are distressed
with evil and malice and it greives them. Just as we with
token are greived in the presence of evil in ourselves and
others. So, you can see why enduring evil and suffering
for doing righteousness does lead to perfection in the spirits of
mankind.
This serving of one another will even apply to the animal
Kingdom. As angelic sons of God have battled for and with us
in our interest when we were as beasts..so too, the taming of
wild animals and the learning of dwelling togather in unity will
occur. This is part of the dominion of the Kingdom also.
Adam was given dominion over the earth..and the subjecting
of the animal kingdom is referred to in several places in the
scriptures. The lion will lie down with the Lamb,kid and leopard
etc, child and the poisoned asp etc on His Holy Mountain.
Yes even the animals will have the spirit of love for one
another and quit devouring one another.
All things must be subjected..
Older brothers and sisters assist with younger etc...
a little child will be the leader of them all speaks of the
youngest in our heavenly numbers assisting in taming the
the animals.
The Kingdom of Heaven is as when a woman hid leaven in a
jar and then all the flour was leaven..this is what that is
speaking of.
All of this sowing and reaping is transpiring now
simultaneously. Litle children are making freinds of their pets
cats and dogs,birds and cats..we have all seen these things in
the news. This goes all the way up to the top of heaven. The
more mature serve the less advanced.
By the same token the kingdom of darkness continues in it's
sowing and reaping and will continue as long as the earth
exists. And we,too, see the evidence of this in the news and
in our daily lives.
As long as the earth exists refers to as long as we dwell in
the earth,or as long as the earth literally exists.
When someone dies and is resurrected in heaven,He is taught
how and in what way He will serve the Father, He has been
delivered from the sin in his flesh,but must suffer the sin in
other's flesh that he serves on earth. Therefore he is perfected
by suffering evil in obediance.
Now when everyone is clothed on High..the rod will no longer
be of use/needed and becomes obsolete..just like the law is
faded away so too the rod. For the law was written against
the lawless and the rod against the disobediant and for the
testing/perfecting of the obediant through the suffering for
obediance.
All the children will be placed in the BODY/FAMILY where
Father places them,and they will find contentment and
fulfillment where they are placed by Him..for He forms us for
this very purpose.
There is a real difference between a free gift and a talent.
The free gift requires no effort on our part..but a talent
requires our effort for it's increase. We want to increase our
Father interests/business. If Father has 'sanctified' us for His
use on earth now..our talents will require some effort on our part
But,He does not sanctify all of mankind for His use on earth at
present..that does not mean the free gift will not be given them
for they will bear fruit in heaven after they die,just as we
bear fruit now,to the extent we put to death the wicked works
of disobediance in our life to the benefit of our Father's interest.
Does everyone get a 'talent' in this life ? Everyone gets at
least one , but if he be overtaken by the wicked spirit
completely he will not have increase. That human will receive
the free gift through no effort of his own, but that rebellious
spirit will be cast out.For every knee will bow and every tongue
will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Sheila
not increase
Quote from: cityonahill on April 03, 2009, 01:07:17 AM
One of the only things that I have trouble with regarding universalism is the problem of evil :BangHead:
Ok, what about the demons who "believe and tremble?"(James 2:19) will they be reconciled back to God? And will Satan be one of those who will confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord"?
A huge problem I have is that if Satan was created purely for the purpose of tormenting and deceiving humans then isn't the God who created Satan really the source of all evil? If Satan has no will and is basically a puppet of evil deeds, then how does that fit with a universal reconciliation of God's creation?
As it relates to the human race, I like universalism and it reconciles many questions I have...but I can't seem to reconcile the problem of evil.
The purpose of Evil... Indeed?
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:
it is an experience of evil Elohim (God)
has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
KJV Ecc 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
Ecc 3:11 God has made everything fit beautifully
in its appropriate time,
but he has also placed ignorance in the human heart so that people cannot discover what God has ordained, from the beginning to the end of their lives.
Evil seems to have a purpose in God's plan....perhaps we are just ignorant of this? :2c:
Paul
[mistake, no changes made...jabcat]
Quote from: sheila on April 03, 2009, 09:25:30 PM
ID
YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL SURPRISE AWAITING YOU!!
Father does this so often, anything that comes up out of
heart for Him.[spontaneous].he does for us.
ex; David wanted to build the temple for the Lord..the Lord
built David a house. He is very tender in affection,our Father.
Bless you,ID
Sheila
Thank for a loving post, of course I always love God, sometime I feel I didn't do enough for him, all I can do is love him
Quote from: Pierac on April 04, 2009, 03:46:42 AM
The purpose of Evil... Indeed?
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
KJV Ecc 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
Ecc 3:11 God has made everything fit beautifully in its appropriate time, but he has also placed ignorance in the human heart so that people cannot discover what God has ordained, from the beginning to the end of their lives.
Evil seems to have a purpose in God's plan....perhaps we are just ignorant of this? :2c:
Paul
I think this goes against our grain Paul. It goes against my natural reasoning, but I
need God to go against my grain, for as the scriptures you quote say, it is for a purpose..HIS purpose...
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it,in hope
that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. Romans 8:20,21
Taken from True Grace Fellowship site; "When man arises after the present experience is over, the world of mankind will be able to testify to the wisdom of God in allowing the experience of suffering and death. When they are awakened from death, their faulty vision or understanding of God will be corrected."
Quote from: sheila on April 03, 2009, 11:29:32 PM
When someone dies and is resurrected in heaven,He is taught
how and in what way He will serve the Father, He has been
delivered from the sin in his flesh,but must suffer the sin in
other's flesh that he serves on earth. Therefore he is perfected
by suffering evil in obediance.
Hey Sheila... can you expand a little on this?
Thanks my friend,
Sparrow
Hi Sparrow
When anyone is raised to heaven,he islike the angels..
all God's angels minister to those who are going to inherit
salvation [mankind] we really do have angels appointed to us
as guardians and teachers. These are truly Holy spirits...
that guard us and keep us.The lead Holy spirit is Pravuil
If we don't listen to the Holy spirit and resist it..and keep
rejecting it and following a rebellious spirit. Our angels may
become so greived with the situation that they may petition
Father for respite . When this happens we are in fact at an
evil spirits mercy[which is not a good place to be] they will
bring a lot of evil fruit in our lives..and cause much sorrow.
It is like one of us striving to get truth to some-one else and
they resist it, finally in exasperation we leave them with the
lie their holding onto,instead of revealing a wonderful spiritual
truth to them. Sometimes people resist the Holy spirit instead
of satan
David prayed after he sinned and asked God to please not
take away His Holy spirit. And Father didn't, but David had to
deal with a lot of suffering over it through-out his life..
There is a scripture that says, turn such a one over to satan
for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be
saved.
I have had to apoligize to the Holy spirit before...and
don't want to greive him. I try an co-operate the best I can
with them so as not to make their duties more or greivous
to them when they have to deal with me in my sinful condition.
But I have failed at times,and often wondered that they didn't
leave me.
They are our Big brothers and sisters in the family of God..
they put much effort in getting communication to us.
In Daniel,he had fasted for 21 days waiting for communication
from heaven on a matter. Gabriel explained about the delay
and how reinforcement from Michael was needed to get through.
The Holy angels as ministering spirits do many things for us
that we are not aware of. When we are like the angels in
heaven..we will serve this way,too.
The rider on the white horse,Jesus and all the army of heaven
are riding on white horses and waging spiritual warfare with
justice and truth. That is how this revelation of the salvation of
all and the great spiritual banquet has been served to us.
They too, fight against prince a palities etc in our behalf.
Those people they ride in turn proclaim what has been
declared to them, for other people to hear.
I have noticed some I understand better than others...just as
on this forum we may understand ones post clearer than
someone else saying the same thing in a different manner.
Truth is truth no matter what manner,but we tend to hone in
on that we can relate to easier and grasp the understanding
quicker. Sometimes one will use a word that I never even heard
of,or a terminology I am not familiar with, I have to research it
to understand what they told me [archaic words,terminology]
We all do the same with the disciples too..some we
understand clearer as to what is being expressed. I especially
prefer John and Paul's wittness for some reason.
I appreciate all of their efforts on all of our behalf.
It is both a wonderful and frightful and exciting time we
we are living in. Many of the saints would have loved to live in
our day and to expierence on this earth what we have been
expierencing.
Ours is a really big family and the older children always help
with the younger ones.
Thank you for sharing all of that, Sheila.
Definitely ponder-material for me.
:HeartThrob:,
sparrow
Gah, I once remember a certain philosopher once brought up a similar notion, but I can't remember the details at all. I'll go on a hunt for the book and come back after I've had time to study the details of his position and my thoughts on it.