This is why I have had such a had time understanding the following.
Was these Persons temporarily raised???
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Posted by Lee Damboise II
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:cloud9: Because they were the ones to whom it was given, to sit on His right hand and His left. When they disappeared, it was because they went back into the "new" Ark of the Covenant that Christ the Spirit, IS, and always has been. Moses/tablets of the law, Elijah/rod that budded. Blessings....
Thanks , Lee Damboise II
I am not trying to be wise, I really want to know, Was Jesus the first to rise from the dead, i.e. Eternal life?
I was taught that it was all possable because The Christ of God made this possable through what His Son DID, that before that no one "could" rise from the dead.
Any help explaining this story of Life Before Jesus rose ???
Lee Damboise II
Could be totally wrong again but Jesus was not the first one to rise from the death.
Lazarus rose earlier. But died again.
But Jesus was the first that rose from the dead and still lives.
Just my 2 euro cents. :2c:
Yeshua was the first to put on immortality.
AND:
1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
chuckt
So how did those two others appear with Jesus in or at His Transfiguration??
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 26, 2009, 07:05:06 PM
So how did those two others appear with Jesus in or at His Transfiguration??
"What did Peter, James and John see on that mount? There was the blessed Lord Jesus, with Moses and Elijah, the type of two things - the law and the prophets. There you have two men - the greatest of all lawgivers, and one who epitomizes in the most splendid manner all that the prophetic mantle embodies. And in the presence of these the heavenly Father gives all glory and honor unto His Son with the command to the disciples: "Hear ye Him." HEAR HIM! When the disciples heard it they fell on their faces, seized by alarm and struck with terrifying fear. All their life times they had been instructed to give the utmost respect and unfailing obedience to every sacred word of Moses and the prophets. But Jesus came and touched them, and said, Get up, and do not be afraid. And when they raised their eyes they saw no man but Jesus only. The message is clear - the law and the prophets have forever passed away, and today there is just THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD. "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19:10). This the voice of the Son of God, the indwelling testimony of Jesus, the inward illumination of the Christ within as the spirit of prophecy, IS THE MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY WHICH WE HAVE."
— Preston Eby
Looking For His Appearing, Part 16
Yes, I have that whole set, but it did nothing to answer if any person was raised to any kind of life before Jesus.
Did he make it possible for all to rise or not...
NO one before Jesus!
They all died.
He laid down and took up His own Life.
So who and how was those dead profits risen, ???
And AIUI( As I understand it ), The Father Raised His Son From the dead, not Jesus raised himself.
Amplified Bible (AMP)
John 10:
17 For this [reason] the Father loves Me, because I lay down My [own] life--to take it back again.
18 No one takes it away from Me. On the contrary, I lay it down voluntarily. [I put it from Myself.] I am authorized and have power to lay it down (to resign it) and I am authorized and have power to take it back again. These are the instructions (orders) which I have received [as My charge] from My Father.
That's the beauty of it!
Are you running for office here?
I would still like to know if any one has a real answer
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 26, 2009, 10:48:19 PM
So who and how was those dead profits risen, ???
And AIUI( As I understand it ), The Father Raised His Son From the dead, not Jesus raised himself.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
So Jesus raised Himself unless someone was speaking through Him.
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 26, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Are you running for office here?
I would still like to know if any one has a real answer
Revelation 1:
5 And from Jesus Christ the faithful and trustworthy Witness, the Firstborn of the dead [first to be brought back to life] and the Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth. To Him Who [g]ever loves us and has [h]once [for all] loosed and freed us from our sins by His own blood
My opinion is that it was their appearance that was there, not their bodies.
okay thanks
:cloud9: Lee D........He's the God of the living and not the dead; all are alive IN Him, who IS (the Spirit) the 7th day, the sabbath, the resurrection and the life. What they saw was the finished work that was from the foundation of the world, ie. they saw into Spirit in which there is no time but NOW.
What I'm going to say here next is hard to grasp but..........if you follow this train of thought, then who we really are, has NEVER left Him, NEVER not been one with Him and with each other, NEVER. But rather we (as spirit) were lowered into this bondage of corruption (the flesh realm) to EXPERIENCE that which we have NEVER known, ie. separation, brokenness (not whole in Him as we WERE from the foundation of the world).
Also, what they saw was the completion of the Passover Seder ("ie. last supper"); Moses/bread/word and Elijah/wine/Spirit. True communion is partaking of the word/bread in the light of the candlestick/wine, to do this in remembrance of or to re-member ie. form His (glorified) body. Stopping here........Blessings...
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 24, 2009, 08:39:34 PM
This is why I have had such a had time understanding the following.
Was these Persons temporarily raised???
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Posted by Lee Damboise II
I don't believe they were raised. Jesus told them not to share this "vision" with anyone else when they saw it.
Wonderful Cardinal! Just Wonderful!
Just the other day I was carefully explaining to someone that we, like Jesus, agreed to leave the heavens.
So there floating spirits, What ???
No really, I am still very confused as to if they were the something of the Moses etc. we read about?? if so, what were they if not risen Spirits!
:cloud9: Yes we did, Beloved Servant; I know from Him giving me a dream/vision of remembrance, that truly we were lowered not willingly (at least at first), but subjected us in hope, ie. Christ in us, the hope of glory. He has always been in us, but the darkness comprehended not the light, until He chose to reveal His light in us. Father, we give You praise, this day. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on August 26, 2009, 11:32:32 PM
:cloud9: Lee D........He's the God of the living and not the dead; all are alive IN Him, who IS (the Spirit) the 7th day, the sabbath, the resurrection and the life. What they saw was the finished work that was from the foundation of the world, ie. they saw into Spirit in which there is no time but NOW.
What I'm going to say here next is hard to grasp but..........if you follow this train of thought, then who we really are, has NEVER left Him, NEVER not been one with Him and with each other, NEVER. But rather we (as spirit) were lowered into this bondage of corruption (the flesh realm) to EXPERIENCE that which we have NEVER known, ie. separation, brokenness (not whole in Him as we WERE from the foundation of the world).
Also, what they saw was the completion of the Passover Seder ("ie. last supper"); Moses/bread/word and Elijah/wine/Spirit. True communion is partaking of the word/bread in the light of the candlestick/wine, to do this in remembrance of or to re-member ie. form His (glorified) body. Stopping here........Blessings...
I like this idea Cardinal. Do you think this is possibly why Jesus said "Do you not know that you are gods" and what is spoken of as the "restitution of all things" (that is, the bringing back to a former state; and more specifically, bringing all back to their former state IN God)?
Elohim: the family of God!
Quote from: Tim B on August 26, 2009, 11:55:02 PM
I like this idea Cardinal. Do you think this is possibly why Jesus said "Do you not know that you are gods" and what is spoken of as the "restitution of all things" (that is, the bringing back to a former state; and more specifically, bringing all back to their former state IN God)?
:cloud9: Absolutely, that's what I think He meant. We were one with Him from the foundation of the world. One with Christ, but not as the "New Age" movement has corrupted that to mean, as in "we are Christ", but one with Him as a wife/body is one with her husband/head.
This is a, "1+1=1 that were joined from 2" pattern, whereas their (New Age) view of it is a, "1=1" pattern, usurping the Head and taking His glory.
In the one scripture where He said have I not said ye are gods, and ye die like men, the emphasis has always been put on being "gods", and He revealed to me that the emphasis was wrong.
What He was taking offense to, was the MANNER OF DYING, ie. like men, instead of like God, or "a god". How does God or "a god" die? No greater love has any many than this, than he lay down his life for his friends. Blessings...
...and the men on the mount were brought to see — NOW — the everlasting sabbath of Christ in Jesus.
:cloud9: Amen........and they didn't realize that to see this meant that it was PAST the feast of Tabernacles; they only knew that Elijah was supposed to come when the Messiah and His Kingdom had come, thus they wanted to build three booths, not realizing the "branches" were standing in front of them. Blessings....
...and the construction of the branches of the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) culminated in the tabernacle of Christ Jesus.
The Everlasting King!
:cloud9: AMEN! Blessings....
...and then there is the wedding feast!
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 26, 2009, 07:05:06 PM
So how did those two others appear with Jesus in or at His Transfiguration??
How did one appear as the son of God in the furnace?
How did one appear approaching the ancient of days?
How did the angels appear ascending and desending on the Son of man?
Mar 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for
with God all things are possible. peace
chuckt
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 26, 2009, 10:46:12 PM
NO one before Jesus!
They all died.
He laid down and took up His own Life.
and what of Enoch and Elijah?
Quote from: noname on August 27, 2009, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 26, 2009, 10:46:12 PM
NO one before Jesus!
They all died.
He laid down and took up His own Life.
and what of Enoch and Elijah?
Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hbr 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
bottom line would be even if they went to heaven, they did NOT gain a glorified body. they were NOT resurrected, only ""raised""
Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us should not be made perfect there is a writting on the difference between vivified, rasied, and resurrection,(( will try and find it )))
Christ Jesus is the FIRST to be resurrected.inlove
chuckt
really good posts,everyone.
I have a different 'take' on Chuck's though. Enoch speaks of
being clothed as one of his glorious ones.[immortality]
Luke 2;34 This child is destined to cause the falling AND
RISING of 'many' in Israel.
and to be a SIGN that is spoken against.
Also, Jesus said, that he only did what he saw His Father
doing. Evidently He had wittnessed before in the heavens,His
Father, raising the dead,healing the afflicted..etc.. God's power
was with him, to do these things. Indeed, He told the
Pharisees they erred because they 'knew not" the POWER of
GOD.
What is the 'SIGNificance' of the word SIGN...
the sign of the covenant
Luke 11;30 For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites,so also
will THE SON OF MAN BE A SIGN TO THIS GENERATION
the destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days
was a miraculous sign given to the jews[John 2;18,19]
the first miraculous sign,was the turning of the water to wine
at the wedding feast.
the Glory of God and His son are worked through these SIGNS
these signs are the odour of death to the ones and the odour
of LIFE to the other.
Their SIGNificance is THE POWER AND GLORY OF GOD
when we see the sign of the Son of Man coming on the clouds
it is His return in all the POWER AND GLORY OF THE FATHER
The Lamb was SLAIN BEFORE the Founding of the world..
The WORD was WITH God in the beginning...all
that was needed for the REVEALING WAS THE OPENING
OF THE SEALS....
You have been with me from the beginning....this is the
covenant for the KINGDOM ....
LOOK!!! The MYSTERY OF GODLINESS IS REVEALED...
AND...the MYSTERY OF LAWLESSNESS.....
Just because something has not been understood or been
revealed to us,does NOT make it INVALID OR AS NOT PRE-
EXISTING OUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT.
BUT,rather, the OPENING OF IT TO US...REVEALS WHAT IS..
AND HAS BEEN..AND WILL BE .FROM THE BEGINNING.
[each in his own order]
So,too, the mystery of lawlessness is revealed, Rev 17;8
the beast which you saw,once was[in heaven and earth]
is now not[being abyssed] and will come up out of the abyss
and go to it's destruction.[beasts lack understanding/the
revealing to the saints, abysses the lying/accusing adversary
false prophet having already been dispensed of]
This WORD from the beginning...a commandment unto life..
has been revealed by the spirit of OUR FATHER...throughout
generations of time...BY THE WILL OF GOD....and as those
borne along of spirit are by the WILL OF GOD, so too, the
WORD OF GOD DOES NOT RETURN VOID,BUT ACCOMPLISHES
ALL THE WILL OF GOD.
Sheila
So since enoch and elihja didnt ""slept. there is no contradiction:
????
1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
did those two need no saviour?
chuckt
That was a more direct to the point I wanted to know.
Did they need no saviour
the Lamb was slain..Before the founding of the world..the Lamb
was ALREADY THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD..before the first
Adam was placed in his body formed of the dust...and as
each humanbeing in his own order has been lowered into
the corruption...I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST...
He came in the midst of the week ...this firstborn from the
dead and declared the Word of God..BUT HE IS THE FIRST
AND THE LAST...firstfruits,lastfruits,ALL THE FRUIT.
If the Lamb was slain,before the founding of the world...
what prevents the sacrifice being applied to them,when they
need it, and when do they need it more than when they die?
And how will some never die[Enoch,Elijah]...
And how are they not perfected preceeding us? Because at
their resurrection[thse that preceded us] they are as the angels,
that desire to peer into the sacred things that God declares
by HIS SPIRIT COME IN FLESH. They are the 'full of eyes' of
cherubs bodies in Ezekiel's vision of the Glory of GOD.
The spirits of just men made perfect
Sheila
Quote from: sheila on August 27, 2009, 05:58:57 PM
This WORD from the beginning...a commandment unto life..
has been revealed by the spirit of OUR FATHER...throughout
generations of time...BY THE WILL OF GOD....and as those
borne along of spirit are by the WILL OF GOD, so too, the
WORD OF GOD DOES NOT RETURN VOID,BUT ACCOMPLISHES
ALL THE WILL OF GOD.
Sheila
:cloud9: WOW Sheila.........it was all good but that last paragraph just danced in my heart for joy! Thank you for posting that. :thumbsup: We serve an awesome God. Thank You Father, I give You praise.
That last part; I want to share some revelation He gave me on that. The Word that was made flesh, lies in repose IN US/the grave, cannot return (be raised and glorified) to the Father, without/devoid of, the Spirit.
The GREAT NEWS is; He raises us up WITH HIM, ie. when He arose many arose with Him. Blessings....
Quote from: sheila on August 27, 2009, 09:30:27 PM
He came in the midst of the week ...this firstborn from the
dead and declared the Word of God..BUT HE IS THE FIRST
AND THE LAST...firstfruits,lastfruits,ALL THE FRUIT.
Sheila
:cloud9: AMEN........the Lord showed me that the Alpha (Christ from before the foundation) and the Omega that COMES IN US as fulfilled sons of God, is the SAME. No longer "in part", but to be filled with the fullness that He is. Blessings.....
Quote from: Lee Damboise on August 26, 2009, 10:41:21 PM
Yes, I have that whole set, but it did nothing to answer if any person was raised to any kind of life before Jesus.
Did he make it possible for all to rise or not...
Lee, there were quite a few raised from the dead before Jesus was. There were the ones Jesus raised from the dead and Elisha raised or was it Elijah? Anyway, the real question is: Who was the first one to be vivified, to receive life immortal? The answer to that question is Jesus. He only has been vivified and in fact is the firstruit of vivification:
1 Corinthians 15:22-24 CLV (22) For even as, in Adam, all are dying,
thus also, in Christ, shall all be
vivified." (23)
Yet each in his own class: the
Firstfruit, Christ;
thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;"
(24) thereafter the consummation, whenever He may
be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever
He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power."
Everyone else died who was brought back to life.
The two seen with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration? It was just a vision. If Moses and Elijah truly were alive at that point in time then they would have beaten Jesus to being the first fruit of vivificaiton.
Quote from: Cardinal on August 27, 2009, 09:35:43 PM
Quote from: sheila on August 27, 2009, 05:58:57 PM
This WORD from the beginning...a commandment unto life..
has been revealed by the spirit of OUR FATHER...throughout
generations of time...BY THE WILL OF GOD....and as those
borne along of spirit are by the WILL OF GOD, so too, the
WORD OF GOD DOES NOT RETURN VOID,BUT ACCOMPLISHES
ALL THE WILL OF GOD.
Sheila
:cloud9: WOW Sheila.........it was all good but that last paragraph just danced in my heart for joy! Thank you for posting that. :thumbsup: We serve an awesome God. Thank You Father, I give You praise.
That last part; I want to share some revelation He gave me on that. The Word that was made flesh, lies in repose IN US/the grave, cannot return (be raised and glorified) to the Father, without/devoid of, the Spirit.
The GREAT NEWS is; He raises us up WITH HIM, ie. when He arose many arose with Him. Blessings....
Amen, Cardinal.
So, could it be said that the bodies of the saints that were raised after the veil was torn, were raised because of the word within them. Once Jesus yielded his spirit to the Father, it says the graves opened, and they went into the holy city and were seen by many. It was the word that raised them and led them into the holy city, for the word was now being fulfilled. But, it still says they "appeared"; and not to all, but many. It makes me believe these "many" were chosen to see, so that they would understand later.