Look at Psalm 81:15 in English translations - https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2081:15 some of them say punishment others say,doomed,etc but those words are not in the Hebrew or the Greek LXX. Here is the LXX and Hebrew part:
καιρὸς αὐτῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
עִתָּ֣ם לְעוֹלָֽם
The word they are mistranslating as punishment,doomed,etc is καιρὸς and עִתָּ֣ם which rightly translated is time/appointed time,season,etc. And yes they also mistranslated olam and aion as forever. Talk about Theological bias. This is one of the reasons why I'm studying Greek(and soon Hebrew)so I can get away from these translations and their biases.
By the way it should be translated in English as The Lord's enemies had lied to him: but their time/season will be into the age/eon.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: JamesH on March 01, 2018, 02:02:43 AM
Look at Psalm 81:15 in English translations - https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2081:15 some of them say punishment others say,doomed,etc but those words are not in the Hebrew or the Greek LXX. Here is the LXX and Hebrew part:
καιρὸς αὐτῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
עִתָּ֣ם לְעוֹלָֽם
The word they are mistranslating as punishment,doomed,etc is καιρὸς and עִתָּ֣ם which rightly translated is time/appointed time,season,etc. And yes they also mistranslated olam and aion as forever. Talk about Theological bias. This is one of the reasons why I'm studying Greek(and soon Hebrew)so I can get away from these translations and their biases.
By the way it should be translated in English as The Lord's enemies had lied to him: but their time/season will be into the age/eon.
good point
Really good find James H :thumbsup: :banana:
Lovely , you will find many beautiful hidden truths along the way .. if you dig deeper than just scratching the surface . miners of truth .like buried treasures of the heart of God . ''dig it '' bro :laughing7:
I would also like to share with you something that helps me to see things in more than just one way .
Truth has many layers or veils that can be lifted , removed and can have deeper substance , hidden from our sight .
Like seals that are covering something up that is hidden and until they are exposed or open you can only see it just one way and that is a face value .
See what you see only , but I do believe it is your spiritual man inside that craves to Know God in a much more personal way and being thankful for the hand that feeds you , All power is in Gods desire to save us though Our Lord Jesus Christ
Every Word spoken has purpose and meaning sometimes to deep even for words .
It is a knowing peace that keeps us going and enduring till the end .
Here is a way to also see the scriptures in another light of understanding ..
Where you see forever as an age or time season or aion or the other as everlasting without end kinds of meanings
LOOK AT THE WHOLE BIBLE as GODS WORD and everything in it is written about HIM and for Him and though Him .
and forever can mean also it has stretched out though all this time from many ages and generations , peoples and tongues and places and they are all permanently /forever / enduring examples for us to see their fate as God has dealt with them
That is a very long lasting and forever etched WORD that never changes of how God deals with mankind .
God will stretch our minds and hearts to see much further and deeper and higher and longer than in just our present , now condition as to God dealing with us all in the days of our flesh and that is not every long at all compared to eternity .
When I read that, '' Gods wrath is but for a moment , but His mercy endures /last forever ''... That was when things opened up
for my heart to grasp at Gods wisdom , If you can see we are like a drop of water now and compare it to an ocean of time , Gods ways and Word what is written down for our instruction .
We can begin to see past our own abilities and short sightedness and be able to grow in truth and grace by Gods blessing us with more understanding of His Wisdom .
Repent, means change your mind from a carnal mind /death to the mind of Christ /Spirit and all about your Heavenly Father
I do believe it is the mind of Christ , that Light or ability to See God as Love and Mercy and Your true Father , being able to endure a consuming fire , because it is a part of Gods true nature and are good things not the bad ways most can see God by their own carnal nature as beasts whom only go by natural instincts and by what they feel and know and mostly do , they are crude in nature and very simple minded and instinctively fear any kind of fire .
Have you ever seen a few dogs gathered to eat together ? , they get along great until chow time usually , they have an alpha male order and dominance to them in groups , the bible compares the gentile nations to little dogs eating crumbs from the masters table , this is why I am using this example ..
When the food is given they fight over it and growl and take for themselves the most food in as possible , while biting the ears of each other and in each others faces , to get out of the way , they do it by fear and dominance over one another , same with chickens, a hen pecking order and cats even that are wild in nature and not tamed very well and they do this naturally by instinct , picking on the poorer and weaker ones , that dont get to eat much at all in all fairness .
The Bible speaks of mans nature a whole lot the same as a natural brute beast and their bellies are their gods /appetites
Lots of times it is how it is worded that makes us think deeper than just the surface or the face value of something said
The Word of God is amazing , when it written , we get some things out of it , but when it Speaks to us we begin to hear , but when it breathes on us by the Holy Spirit we begin to know as we should
It is all a process and practice , I have always felt you can have as much or little as you want , some of this is up to you , to look , and seek and knock and most ask God for help in understanding His word
God makes it very worth your while , there comes a peace that surpasses all understanding , and cannot be moved by any other spirit but the Holy ONE .. and that is Gods glory and work in you !!
We can praise God in all His glory with one another .. as we ought witn manners and gentleness of spirit and sharing and caring and mostly the LOVE OF GOD growing in our hearts to the full , where others needs become more important than your own ...
Christ in you the hope of glory and salvation of all mankind ... I have said it before and say it again , I do not know a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods love and mercy and grace , and cannot think of one whom does not need Him , no matter how low or little or how big and powerful or as lost as can be or as found none can exist without His breath in them and His Spirit moving them . and do not think that part ends when death of the body comes to all flesh , it could never inherit Gods kingdom and never could but has an end and most judge according the the flesh , but it is discerning the spirits in a man/body that you can know them by their ways of saying things and doing things ..
It is getting pretty intense for some ..exposed as a man of sin/error or man of God / Christ ruling their hearts .
Quote from: JamesH on March 01, 2018, 02:02:43 AM
Look at Psalm 81:15 in English translations - https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Psalm%2081:15 some of them say punishment others say,doomed,etc but those words are not in the Hebrew or the Greek LXX. Here is the LXX and Hebrew part:
καιρὸς αὐτῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
עִתָּ֣ם לְעוֹלָֽם
The word they are mistranslating as punishment,doomed,etc is καιρὸς and עִתָּ֣ם which rightly translated is time/appointed time,season,etc. And yes they also mistranslated olam and aion as forever. Talk about Theological bias. This is one of the reasons why I'm studying Greek(and soon Hebrew)so I can get away from these translations and their biases.
By the way it should be translated in English as The Lord's enemies had lied to him: but their time/season will be into the age/eon.
I don't envy the translators, some verses are kind of hard to figure - And, of course it's too bad 'they' seem to habitually assume "for ever" and going along with that, ruin or destruction like an iron wall is seen to be, we guesssed it - 'for ever'. ("God is the savior of all" 1 Tim 4:10)
Yes sin (missing the mark/imperfection-flawed) will always bring to ruin (both individually and collectively). But not 'for ever'!
'Punishment' is corrective... and is not 'for ever' - 2851. kolasis ► correction
(why would "correction" last 'for ever'?)From Mt. 25:46 - http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-46.htm - and as we know, usually translated as eternal punishment.. [http://biblehub.com/matthew/25-46.htm (http://biblehub.com/matthew/25-46.htm)]
2851 [e]
kolasinκόλασιν
correction
166 [e]
aiōnionαἰώνιον
agelong
But! Even in the lexicon and interlinear, translators
love to run with meanings:
quote =
Strong's Concordance - aiónios: agelong, eternal
Yet,
quote =
Word-studies
Cognate: 166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") – properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age)
[166 (aiṓnios) does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age (165 /aiṓn) it relates to. Thus believers live in "eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life" right now, experiencing this quality of God's life now as a present possession. (Note the Gk present tense of having eternal life in Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47; cf. Ro 6:23.)]
(166 /aiṓnios) life operates simultaneously outside of time, inside of time, and beyond time – i.e. what gives time its everlasting meaning for the believer through faith, yet is also time-independent. See 165 (aiōn).Translators seem to like to choose the most extreme usage of a word?
Quote from: marie glen on March 01, 2018, 03:47:36 PM
I don't envy the translators, some verses are kind of hard to figure - And, of course it's too bad 'they' seem to habitually assume "for ever" and going along with that, ruin or destruction like an iron wall is seen to be, we guesssed it - 'for ever'. ("God is the savior of all" 1 Tim 4:10)
I agree it quite often is problematic because there simply isn't English word that covers all the meanings the Hebrew/Greek has.
And there my compassion for the translators ends.
Words like anion are very important often returning words. At least in the study Bible they could add a footnote. Or even a whole page at the beginning of the Bible.
A--men!