http://christianchat.forumotion.com/t153-universalists-the-ear-ticklers
I'm not a Universalist, but I'm open-minded. Anyone care to join our little forum and weigh in on this discussion? I post as "Kingfisher".
I honestly can see how someone can object that Universal Salvation is easy to swallow. But I don't think that is any measure of its veracity.
"No universalism teaching allowed, lazurus has a special exemption. Thank you" :doh:
I just left Christian Chat, and it looks like the thread has been taken down, and that after misszoolander came on board. ["Two of them?! Shut it down! Shut it down now!!]
Well, jabcat, I may have put my foot in it, for I have agreed to a one-on-one debate in their closed debate forum. I'll just have to state upfront that I'm doing this on my own and Tentmaker didn't put me up to it, which is entirely true.
BTW, thank you misszoolander for your support. After that other place, thank you all for the openness and warmth and support and love and everything. I love it here!
Hey Laz. I was just looking and saw the debate offer/request. Hey, don't think you're being "controlled", etc. You do what you feel the freedom in our blessed savior Jesus Christ to do and what you're led to do. He may have you to go there and share. But yes, I don't want them accusing us of trying to stir up trouble. Blessings!
Thanks for that, jabcat!
I did note something over there, but just now put it together, and I think it speaks volumes about their intellectual/spiritual honesty. That site has a sub-forum for controversial topics, and the tagline mentions Universalism explicitly. However, the "Universalism: An ear-tickling doctrine?" thread did not get moved there, but just went <poof!>. That sub-forum only contains two threads, so it must be mostly window-dressing. Maybe the member just toe the line.
:dsunny: Hopefully Jesus Christ and Him crucified, risen again, drawing us to Him to give us faith to believe on Him as Savior, can be a unifying point in many cases; to where we can live peaceably with all men, "as much as depends on us" Rom. 12:8.
You and misszoo were very kind and showed the spirit of Christ over there, IMO. Also, IMO, I believe we should do WHATEVER we're led to do, while realizing it's just not yet some peoples' time to hear (receive) certain things, so they/we may cling to ingrained beliefs, traditions, etc., and any amount of struggling won't help. Some things I believe Jesus Himself will need to teach us when we stand in His direct Presence. :2c:
It is not our place to judge our fellow brothers and sisters, but simply to tell them "The good news!" :dsunny:
As frustrating as it can be, I offer my frustration to Christ, only he can take down the veil, through him is truth and light.
My job is to take up my cross, bear witness to his amazing grace and spread the good news.
Praise Jesus for his truth that is revealed to us, he sure was not lying when he said the truth shall set you free! :banana:
Quote from: misszoolander on January 14, 2013, 09:27:38 AM
It is not our place to judge our fellow brothers and sisters, but simply to tell them "The good news!" :dsunny:
As frustrating as it can be, I offer my frustration to Christ, only he can take down the veil, through him is truth and light.
My job is to take up my cross, bear witness to his amazing grace and spread the good news.
Praise Jesus for his truth that is revealed to us, he sure was not lying when he said the truth shall set you free! :banana:
Amen! Fantastic!
Brad invited me to that particular topic. I made a post centered on sticking to what is written. There seems to be a mix-up among the moderators over discussing the true Jesus, Master Torturer or Savior of all.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 14, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Thanks for that, jabcat!
I did note something over there, but just now put it together, and I think it speaks volumes about their intellectual/spiritual honesty. That site has a sub-forum for controversial topics, and the tagline mentions Universalism explicitly. However, the "Universalism: An ear-tickling doctrine?" thread did not get moved there, but just went <poof!>. That sub-forum only contains two threads, so it must be mostly window-dressing. Maybe the member just toe the line.
i like the idea of a sub-forum for controversial subjects
On behalf of Tentmaker, I personally don't encourage anyone to go there and talk about UR, as it's not welcomed. Secondly, if you do choose to do so, I'd encourage to really make sure you feel led by God to go, and follow His leading in the endeavor; and you might likely expect it to not be received, as well as there be consequences (namely, banned). But that's up to you, I'm just laying the cards on the table.
[edit, will deal with privately/directly for now]
Thanks to all.
Fortunately or unfortunately, jabcat, I have already committed to a private debate over there. I do intent to keep it civil and respectful, for my part. Chances are good that we will end up agreeing to disagree, and that happens a lot in such situations.
I don't have a problem with that Laz. Not trying to control anyone at all, just putting it out there so no one is surprised or in the dark. :thumbsup:
And I know you'll exhibit the spirit of Christ. For any of us, IMO, there's just no need to ridicule, mock, say disparaging things about/to each other. We all see through a glass darkly, God veils and reveals. We declare Jesus, Savior of the world- in whatever ways we're led and are able - and God does the rest. :2c: 1 Timothy 4:10
"Warning: Even though this is now in the cults forum, you may not teach any view of universalism. At this point forward any post that is not ask or clarifying will be considered teaching and will be deleted.
I welcome people to post but if you have the belief of Universalism, you can not teach it here."
Great, we are now a cult. :dontknow:
So was the original cult at Antioch where the cult members were first called "Chrisitans" :laughing7: :Peace2:
Most blessed cult I've ever been in! :banana:
I can think of no one I would rather be called "cult" by than someone who believes God is going to torment billions of souls forever.
Quote from: eaglesway on January 15, 2013, 04:32:44 AM
I can think of no one I would rather be called "cult" by than someone who believes God is going to torment billions of souls forever.
:iagree:
:bigGrin:
An old hymn from my childhood;
Trials dark on every hand,
and we cannot understand
all the ways of God would lead us
to that blessed promised land;
but he guides us with his eye,
and we'll follow till we die,
for we'll understand it better by and by.
:dsunny:
Thank you Jab,
That really spoke to my heart :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 15, 2013, 02:39:09 AM
Fortunately or unfortunately, jabcat, I have already committed to a private debate over there. I do intent to keep it civil and respectful, for my part. Chances are good that we will end up agreeing to disagree, and that happens a lot in such situations.
Lazarus, personally I have no problem with you having a one on one debate. In fact, I will look forward to reading it, but refrain from comments. As you know, this is a new site, with many members from an old site that in the past experienced a similar situation. I did come here a couple of years ago and present my views in "The Book of Life" thread.
I think you guys were respectful when I came here at that time and I will encourage CC members to also treat you with curtsy. However, at this new site, there is a different admin and I don't have as much influence as at CWS.
Not directed at your post Hansc, but recent posts of the last few days has brought back to mind some things related. Some observations and thoughts, as seen through a glass darkly;
whether one believes in ET or UR, it's God's Holy Spirit that does the drawing to Jesus for salvation.
whether one believes in ET or UR, one must be saved by the power and the blood of the cross of Jesus, by the grace of God.
whether one believes in ET or UR, faith is given to believe unto salvation by God. It's a gift, initiated and accomplished by God, not a work of the receiver. "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy". Romans 9:16
whether one believes in ET or UR, if anyone professes a belief in God for ANY other reason than they've been drawn and given the faith to believe, isn't there still a problem? For instance, if anyone states a belief ONLY to escape an eternal hell, but haven't been drawn and given faith, is that a saving faith? If someone says "why serve God then if everyone will eventually be saved? I may as well live like the devil" - does that person likely (we can't judge) love God and know Him? Does a true child of God say, Jesus has saved me, and since all will eventually be brought to repentance and belief, and especially since I don't believe in eternal torment, I'll just not care and not serve Him? Or does a true child of God, spiritually reborn by being drawn and given faith to believe, love and serve Him no matter what, and are they kept by His power and grace, when straying get pulled back (prodigal son, lost sheep)? Because again, it's not based on their effort or works, it's based on whether God has called and redeemend, and sealed and sustain them by His Spirit or not.
whether one believes in ET or UR, does that alone save or condemn them? Does the Bible say "believe in ET", or "believe in UR", "and you will be saved"? NO! It says to believe in your heart upon the Lord Jesus Christ and confess Him with your mouth, and you will be saved. And ONLY can that be done IN (literal translation) the Holy Spirit.
I think we should share our understandings with each other - ET or UR - contending for sound doctrine AS BEST WE CAN UNDERSTAND IT AND HAS BEEN GIVEN TO US AT THE TIME. Give good reasons why, in brotherly love - and not be categorizing each other as cults, fringe groups, or not as yet reconciled to God because of what one group believes, or another group doesn't believe. And while doing so, in all of our own veiled, inadequate understandings of a mighty, all-powerful Holy God, attempt to dismiss or marginalize each other from the kingdom and the body of Christ - that body that is bought, kept, and delivered through the precious blood of Jesus that He shed on the cross - for who? ALL of us!
I've seen ET believers shine with the love of Christ, and I've seen UR believers dark by the influence of satan.
I've seen UR believers shine with the love of Christ, and I've seen ET believers dark by the influence of satan.
What was the difference? Their beliefs in their respective doctrines and rejection of the other? Or either the infilling of Jesus and His power to redeem, or the absence of?
Only Jesus saves.
Words can not express Jab....
:thumbsup:
Strike our pride God! humble us May we serve you according to your will, not our own.
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." Deut 32:39
You are the only one Lord. Only you can save us.
Quote from: misszoolander on January 15, 2013, 10:14:18 AM
Words can not express Jab....
:thumbsup:
Strike our pride God! humble us May we serve you according to your will, not our own.
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." Deut 32:39
You are the only one Lord. Only you can save us.
humbly thank you, but i trust they were His words. blessings, and amen.
Quote from: Hansc on January 15, 2013, 07:15:30 AM
I did come here a couple of years ago and present my views in "The Book of Life" thread.
I think you guys were respectful when I came here at that time and I will encourage CC members to also treat you with curtsy. However, at this new site, there is a different admin and I don't have as much influence as at CWS.
HansC,
In this link you mentioned mentioned The Book of Life as another and original topic/thread.
http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/revelation-2218-19-taken-out-of-the-book-of-life/msg116544/#msg116544
I know some have their own search programs, so maybe you or someone else here could discover that thread? because the above link is the only result I could find in the search program here.
Quote from: jabcat on January 15, 2013, 10:29:09 AM
Quote from: misszoolander on January 15, 2013, 10:14:18 AM
Words can not express Jab....
:thumbsup:
Strike our pride God! humble us May we serve you according to your will, not our own.
"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." Deut 32:39
You are the only one Lord. Only you can save us.
humbly thank you, but i trust they were His words. blessings, and amen.
:iagree:
Laz and misszoo I commend both of you on your conduct at Christian Chat. I pray for the words to debate with those of the ET persuasion. Tentmaker is a beacon of light in the dark places steeped in ET. I thank Yahweh for leading me to Tentmaker.