The Whole Loaf

[marie glen]

Not too long ago I learned that on the ancient holy day of "Firstfruits" a lone sheaf of grain (barley, if I haven't gotten the 3 harvests confused) - a lone sheaf was waved in the air (toward God, I assume). And it was a way of committing or dedicating to God the whole (entire) harvest. Every sheaf! I'm thinking, of course of the whole harvest of the Earth.. God's entire harvest. Of which Jesus was the first lone sheaf..

And so i was reminded of this when I read -

Romans 11:16 - Good News Translation (GNT)

16 If the first piece of bread is given to God, then the whole loaf is his also; and if the roots of a tree are offered to God, the branches are his also.

Which, Paul, of course is talking about Israel. But Israel is a microcosm (example) of the world..

[we had some threads recently with titles like "seeing U.R. everywhere". This is SO true! It is virtually every where in God's Word. Both plainly and assumed.. or directly and indirectly]
          :gsmile: :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

If the wavesheaf is lifted up, it will draw all sheaves unto itself.  That is the thought that comes to me.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!! :dsunny:

[sheila]

wavesheaf/House of bread/Bethlehem....God cast.Jesus,bread of heaven[manna]  bread upon the waters..

[peoples].....

[see Him walking on the waters?]...it will return unto you after many days.[I return unto My Father and your

Father]....died for all/whole loaf.

   and don't we know...that bread on waters[waves] draw fish up...then you've got bread and fish!!! :dsunny:

[marie glen]

:gsmile: Amen!  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Not too long ago I learned that on the ancient holy day of "Firstfruits" a lone sheaf of grain (barley, if I haven't gotten the 3 harvests confused) - a lone sheaf was waved in the air (toward God, I assume). And it was a way of committing or dedicating to God the whole (entire) harvest. Every sheaf! I'm thinking, of course of the whole harvest of the Earth.. God's entire harvest. Of which Jesus was the first lone sheaf..

And so i was reminded of this when I read -

Romans 11:16 - Good News Translation (GNT)

16 If the first piece of bread is given to God, then the whole loaf is his also; and if the roots of a tree are offered to God, the branches are his also.

Which, Paul, of course is talking about Israel. But Israel is a microcosm (example) of the world..

[we had some threads recently with titles like "seeing U.R. everywhere". This is SO true! It is virtually every where in God's Word. Both plainly and assumed.. or directly and indirectly]
          :gsmile: :Peace2:

I'm not so sure about that sheaf....
Early spring a single sheaf was harvested (many parallels with Jesus) but that sheaf wasn't presented to God. The sheaf was processed during the night and in the morning a bowl of barley was offered to God. Jews call is the Omer. A measure of grain waved vertically (up and down)

Late summer the loaf was presented at Pentecost (nicknamed the 2nd Passover). It were actually 2 loaves. There are 'odd' things about them. They were made totally separate. Harvested form different sheaves. Processed, and baked completely separate. So the seeds were never mixed. two separated lumps of dough etc. Both loaves were leavened.

[sheila]

hmmm...barley was always the poor mans bread..the leavening could symbolize..the grace of God....

...kingdom of heaven like leavening placed in 3 measures of flour.?

[WhiteWings]

Barley was also the first harvest. The smallest harvest. The harvest in the beginning of the new year. It's hard for a rich man to enter heaven.

The harvest is also about the stubbornness of the people (I think).
Read Isa quotes below and each harvest is processed differently.
Some beating with reeds, others with stick and at the end of the spectrum we got the threshing board called tribulum. And indeed that the last harvest in Revelation. It's also the largest harvest.

You are right barley was considered poor man's or even animal food. I don't understand why. I like the full flavor of barley. And it's most certainly not poor mans food because it's way more expensive than wheat.


Isa 28:23 Give you ear, and hear my voice; listen, and hear my speech.Isa 28:24 Does the plowman plow all day to sow? does he open and break the clods of his ground?Isa 28:25 When he has made plain the face thereof, does he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rye in their place?Isa 28:26 For his God does instruct him to discretion, and does teach him.Isa 28:27 For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about on the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.Isa 28:28 Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.Isa 28:29 This also comes forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.

[WhiteWings]

hmmm...barley was always the poor mans bread..the leavening could symbolize..the grace of God....

...kingdom of heaven like leavening placed in 3 measures of flour.?

Jesus warned about the leaven of the Pharisees. False teachings, hypocrisy.
The HS at Pentecost (time of the leavened loaves) was perfect leaven.


Quoting an old good post by Ronen, which shows there is good leaven.

Many express the idea of a remnant as something chosen apart from the rest...simply to be set apart from the rest...with the rest being discarded in some way. This, for example, is how some believe in the view of predestination; whereby God chooses some to be saved, and lets the rest burn in hell forever.

Understanding the word that the Creator chose to express the concept of 'remnant', I believe will give an entirely different and more awesome picture of what it means.

The concepts of remnant, and related concepts of remain, left over, etc., are contained in the word שאר (sha'ar). While it does contain the idea of something left over, or remaining, there is more to it than just that. We can see this by another word with the same root, שאור (se'or). This is the word for 'leaven'. Understanding how leaven functioned will give us a wonderful picture as to how a remnant similarly functions.

Back then they did not use yeast packs to make risen bread. Instead, they made dough and allowed it to sit and ferment (when the yeast already in the dough starts to flourish). This initial step can take several days to accomplish, and since they made bread on a daily basis, they would take a small portion of the initial dough and save it for the next days batch, adding it to that batch. The yeast would then take over that lump quickly and they would take another bit from that batch to save, then bake that new loaf, and so on.

Herein we find the marvelous purpose of what it truly means to be 'left over', or a 'remnant'. It is not merely for our own benefit, but is intended that what we are infected with (spiritually speaking) would permeate the next generation of 'dough', that it would be like us. :)

With this the writings agree:

And blessed in you and in your seed are all the families of the ground.
(Gen 12:3)

And I will deliver thee from the people of the Judaeans, and from other nations; to whom I send thee, to open their eyes; that they may turn from darkness to the light, and from the dominion of Satan unto Alaha; and may receive remission of sins, and a portion with the saints, by faith in me.
(Act 26:17-18)

For, if the first - fruits [are] holy, then the mass [is] also: and if the root is holy, then also the branches.
(Rom 11:16)

Ronen

[marie glen]

Quoting an old good post by Ronen, which shows there is good leaven.

Many express the idea of a remnant as something chosen apart from the rest...simply to be set apart from the rest...with the rest being discarded in some way. This, for example, is how some believe in the view of predestination; whereby God chooses some to be saved, and lets the rest burn in hell forever.

Understanding the word that the Creator chose to express the concept of 'remnant', I believe will give an entirely different and more awesome picture of what it means.

The concepts of remnant, and related concepts of remain, left over, etc., are contained in the word שאר (sha'ar). While it does contain the idea of something left over, or remaining, there is more to it than just that. We can see this by another word with the same root, שאור (se'or). This is the word for 'leaven'. Understanding how leaven functioned will give us a wonderful picture as to how a remnant similarly functions.

Back then they did not use yeast packs to make risen bread. Instead, they made dough and allowed it to sit and ferment (when the yeast already in the dough starts to flourish). This initial step can take several days to accomplish, and since they made bread on a daily basis, they would take a small portion of the initial dough and save it for the next days batch, adding it to that batch. The yeast would then take over that lump quickly and they would take another bit from that batch to save, then bake that new loaf, and so on.

Herein we find the marvelous purpose of what it truly means to be 'left over', or a 'remnant'. It is not merely for our own benefit, but is intended that what we are infected with (spiritually speaking) would permeate the next generation of 'dough', that it would be like us. :)

With this the writings agree:

And blessed in you and in your seed are all the families of the ground.
(Gen 12:3)

And I will deliver thee from the people of the Judaeans, and from other nations; to whom I send thee, to open their eyes; that they may turn from darkness to the light, and from the dominion of Satan unto Alaha; and may receive remission of sins, and a portion with the saints, by faith in me.
(Act 26:17-18)

For, if the first - fruits [are] holy, then the mass [is] also: and if the root is holy, then also the branches.
(Rom 11:16)

Ronen

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: that's good! I like to think of the woman's "three measures of meal" (parable) as agreeing with the 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, the "each in his own order.." verses. And with the three harvests.. barley, wheat, grape..

[marie glen]

Not too long ago I learned that on the ancient holy day of "Firstfruits" a lone sheaf of grain (barley, if I haven't gotten the 3 harvests confused) - a lone sheaf was waved in the air (toward God, I assume). And it was a way of committing or dedicating to God the whole (entire) harvest. Every sheaf! I'm thinking, of course of the whole harvest of the Earth.. God's entire harvest. Of which Jesus was the first lone sheaf..

And so i was reminded of this when I read -

Romans 11:16 - Good News Translation (GNT)

16 If the first piece of bread is given to God, then the whole loaf is his also; and if the roots of a tree are offered to God, the branches are his also.

Which, Paul, of course is talking about Israel. But Israel is a microcosm (example) of the world..

[we had some threads recently with titles like "seeing U.R. everywhere". This is SO true! It is virtually every where in God's Word. Both plainly and assumed.. or directly and indirectly]
          :gsmile: :Peace2:

I'm not so sure about that sheaf....
Early spring a single sheaf was harvested (many parallels with Jesus) but that sheaf wasn't presented to God. The sheaf was processed during the night and in the morning a bowl of barley was offered to God. Jews call is the Omer. A measure of grain waved vertically (up and down)

Late summer the loaf was presented at Pentecost (nicknamed the 2nd Passover). It were actually 2 loaves. There are 'odd' things about them. They were made totally separate. Harvested form different sheaves. Processed, and baked completely separate. So the seeds were never mixed. two separated lumps of dough etc. Both loaves were leavened.

That's interesting! I've wondered what the "Omer" was!

I think I was thinking of Leviticus 23:11 "He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it.."

But then it goes on to say "And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord."

I don't know where I read that one of the things it represented was a dedicating of the complete harvest to the LORD.. :dunno:

hmmm...barley was always the poor mans bread..the leavening could symbolize..the grace of God....

...kingdom of heaven like leavening placed in 3 measures of flour.?

       :thumbsup: :iagree:

[WhiteWings]

Dedication to God.
   
Leviticus 23:9-14 
(9) The LORD told Moses
(10) to say to the community of Israel: After you enter the land I am giving you, the first bundle of wheat from each crop must be given to me. So bring it to a priest (11) on the day after the Sabbath. He will lift it up in dedication to me, and I will accept you.
(12) You must also offer a sacrifice to please me. So bring the priest a one-year-old lamb that has nothing wrong with it
(13) and four pounds of your finest flour mixed with olive oil. Then he will place these on the bronze altar and send them up in smoke with a smell that pleases me. Together with these, you must bring a quart of wine as a drink offering.
(14) I am your God, and I forbid you to eat any new grain or anything made from it until you have brought these offerings. This law will never change.

[marie glen]

oh! i thought sheaf was a single grain stalk, which made sense to me Jesus being called the firstfruit.. and thought the waving it was a way of dedicating the whole harvest to God (thus was thinking of it as representing u.r.)

[WhiteWings]

You are not entirely wrong at all.

A single sheaf was selected a few days before the actual harvest. It the very best sheaf the priests could find. (Jesus, 'selected' in court)
A sheaf doesn't really grow, just stalks. So they bound stalks into a single sheaf. But it was still in the ground (Jesus was bound)
Then the night before Wave Sheaf the sheaf was harvested. (Jesus cut off?)
It was beaten out with reeds without breaking it (no bones broken?)
The seeds were put trough 7 sieves IIRC.
They were roasted without burning them.
They were presented to God in a bowl with a certain volume. An omer. 1 omer = 1 quart

No idea how many stalks, but quite a few I would say because a quart holds hundreds of seeds and the ancient grain perhaps had 10 on a stalk???