Tentmaker Forum

Hey all my UR friends,


Matthew 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.



The case of the "unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin" or "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term "blasphemy" may be generally defined as "defiant irreverence." We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."


The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16 tells us, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the "whoever" that believes in Him. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
.
Resource: got questions.org

Since no one was able to give me chapter and verse where God grants repentance and forgiveness of sin after someone dies an unbeliever...this is why. The unforgivable sin..in this age or the age to come is unbelief. no pardon. This is shown in Rev 14:9-11 for those who worship the beast. no pardon. H

You were given tons of Scriptures, but you continued to harden your heart against the Holy Ghost.

Thread on alleged unforgiveable sin:

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2212.0 (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2212.0)

There are just so many things wrong with this post, I'm not even going to waste the time to point them out, since you'll just ignore it anyway like you have with everything else.

Touche' Martin, you're quick!

Quote from: martincisneros on August 21, 2009, 03:30:49 AM
You were given tons of Scriptures, but you continued to harden your heart against the Holy Ghost.

Amen,, that's the ticket. Thanks Martin.

An open heart and obedience to Father is better than sacrifice.,,

Thank God for the Sacrifice of the Unique Son.  

A willing heart to obey,,  trust and obey.  

All in God's time,, all will gladly bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.  Who could not bow the knee to Him that is Love?

Thank God for the Good News!   :cloud9:

Lee100...what if your belief system is not good enough?What if you if you just want"salvation" so badly that your just deceiving yourself?
If there is any doubt,that will leave you in a lot of fear...right?
God doesn't operate in fear but in love....I'm personally very thankful for that!!!
blessings :icon_king:

everyone,

Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26: Matthew 12:32 make it perfectly clear why there are NO scriptures in the bible that say God grants repentance and forgiveness of sins after people die an unbeliever.

Quote from: lee100 on August 21, 2009, 03:51:22 AM
everyone,

Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26: Matthew 12:32 make it perfectly clear why there are NO scriptures in the bible that say God grants repentance and forgiveness of sins after people die an unbeliever.

And the rest of the scriptures and explanations we've given you make it perfectly clear why it doesn't matter to the question of ultimate salvation.

Quote from: lee100 on August 21, 2009, 03:51:22 AM
everyone,

Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26: Matthew 12:32 make it perfectly clear why there are NO scriptures in the bible that say God grants repentance and forgiveness of sins after people die an unbeliever.

Here's the one,

1Co 15:55 KJV
(55)  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


But, alas, if you can't find the love of God for all,, then maybe you should forsake all your religious beliefs and honestly and sincerely beg God to reveal His Heart. 

Otherwise,, who cares what your or anyone else's doctrine is.  I quite sure you are not going to turn anyone away from the Love of God which is in Christ Jesus.  and the whole idea that God being sovereign is not going to lose a single one.. Anyone in Adam qualifies to All in Christ..  Don't make God keep YOUR time about when He WiLL cause all to fall head over heals in Love with Him...  Does anyone really think that their supposed free will can be greater than God?  Think about that,, and next time anyone want's to condemn anyone to an eternity of horrific agony and torture in a burning hell,,, Think about all the loved ones that you may have in your life,,, if you have anyone that you LOVE? 

Thank God for the Good News!

   

Dear lee100 Jesus said "they won't be pardoned in this eon or that which is impending." And He said they are liable to the eonian penalty.

We need to define what is the blasphemy of the holy spirit first. Jesus said it was attributing His miracles to the works of Satan. It is not what gotquestions.org said.

Also, even in our justice system if a criminal goes to prison for this decade and that decade which is impending and they judge says that it is impossible for that criminal to be pardoned, this does not mean, and no one would think the judge meant, that the criminal will remain in prison beyond the two decades since he won't be pardoned. It just means that since he will not be pardoned he must do the full two decades.

Likewise that is what Jesus was saying. He was saying He will not pardon them so they must serve their time for the duration of this eon and the eon which is impending (the millennium.

Eventually they will be saved for 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10 says they will along with a host of other scriptures.

tony
http://www.saviourofall.org

Dear Lee,

1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

There is no fear in love - The man who feels that he loves God with all his heart can never dread him as his Judge. As he is now made a partaker of his Spirit, and carries a sense of the Divine approbation in his conscience, he has nothing of that fear that produces terror or brings torment. The perfect love - that fullness of love, which he has received, casteth out fear - removes all terror relative to this day of judgment, for it is of this that the apostle particularly speaks. And as it is inconsistent with the gracious design of God to have his followers miserable, and as he cannot be unhappy whose heart is full of the love of his God, this love must necessarily exclude this fear or terror; because that brings torment, and hence is inconsistent with that happiness which a man must have who continually enjoys the approbation of his God.

He that feareth - He who is still uncertain concerning his interest in Christ; who, although he has many heavenly drawings, and often sits with Christ some moments on a throne of love, yet feels from the evils of his heart a dread of the day of judgment; is not made perfect in love - has not yet received the abiding witness of the Spirit that he is begotten of God; nor that fullness of love to God and man which excludes the enmity of the carnal mind, and which it is his privilege to receive. But is the case of such a man

Thomas Talbott in the book "Universal Salvation? The Current Debate". States, the whole thrust of Jesus's teaching, moreover, pointed in the same direction. He categorically rejected the prevailing understanding of the retaliatory justice.  
Mat 5:38  "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39  But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

, the prevailing understanding of limited forgiveness...

Mat 18:21  Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" 22  Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

and the prevailing understanding of a limited obligation to love

Mat 5:43  "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Why, according to Jesus, are we to love our enemies as well as our friends? So that we might be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect,  Why should there be no limit to our forgiveness? So that we might be perfect as even our Father in heaven is perfect. Why must we forsake retaliation of a retributivist kind?  So that we might be perfect for even as our Father in heaven is perfect.  As I see it, then, we have here overwhelming evidence that God, as Jesus understood him, never ceases to love his own enemies, never ceases forgiving them, and sees no ultimate justice in punishment of the retributivist kind. The idea that we are expected to be better than God is unthinkable.


:thumbsup:
Paul

Quote from: lee100 on August 21, 2009, 03:24:38 AM
Matthew 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Lee I know your interpretation of that verse. It states there is no may to come to the Lord after death. Correct?
Then please explain me why it simpy doesn't state "for all ages to come" "for eternity" or similar?

They won't be forgiven in this age. - Clear
They won't be forgiven in the next age. - Clear
Will they be forgiven when the next age has ended?

Quote from: martincisneros on August 21, 2009, 03:30:49 AM
You were given tons of Scriptures, but you continued to harden your heart against the Holy Ghost.

I think that is a unpardonable sin!
Lee clearly reads a lot in the Bible. Good.
Lee has formed his own opinion on what the Bible says. Also fine.
Lee's opinion on what's written minimizes the love/power of God. Also fine.
Lee is shown a more glorious interpretation but refuses to explore it. The unforgiveble sin.

Lee why does a teaching that states God is all powerful and loving scare you so much?
Attributing those qualities to God certainly isn't blasphemy IMO.
We could be wrong and you be right. But prove it. If not for us because we already are very lost but for the people that find and read articles on this forum by using Google. Save them! Rebuke us!
Not that I give you the slightest chance of succeeding.
You surely have read read those lenghty UR articles stating many many points why UR is true. Then a UR teacher refutes those point one by one and puts it on his/her website.
Then his/her points are refuted. But that you won't see on those websites. Why?

Quote from: martincisneros on August 21, 2009, 03:32:11 AM
Thread on alleged unforgiveable sin:

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2212.0 (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2212.0)

The link in the second reply is broken....

More info:
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/unpardonable-sin.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

Note to CoG/Lee: do not click the links. They will kill one of your doctrinal hell hounds.

cut and Paste--oops

It should be clear to every thinking mind that when Jesus warned the Pharisees and scribes about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit the primary thrust of His words was directed like an arrow straight into their hearts. On no occasion did Jesus warn the sinners about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Jesus never cautioned the publicans about a sin against the Holy Spirit. Never once did He utter a word to the poor and oppressed about a sin that they might commit which would not be forgiven. Jesus never admonished His disciples and followers about such a sin! But to the religious leaders and rulers of the house of Judah the Lord said, "Verily I say to YOU, all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speaking with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit has not forgiveness - to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment; BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT" (Mk. 3:28-30, Young's Literal). The one and only warning given in the pages of God's blessed Book respecting the sin against the Holy Spirit was delivered to the scribes and Pharisees! That it was meant for them, and for them alone, is evident from the time frame of the judgment imposed - "shall not be forgiven in this age, nor in the age to come."

"This age" plainly indicates the age of Law. Jesus came under the age of the Law. "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, MADE UNDER THE LAW, to redeem them that were under the law..." (Gal. 4:4-5). The age that was to come, the age then imminent and impending was this present age of the church. The two ages of unforgiveness are thus clearly defined as the law age and the grace age. These words could not in any manner apply to any except people then living prior to Calvary and the birth of the church age on the day of Pentecost. You will never in a million years understand the deep mystery and meaning of Jesus' teaching on this subject until you grasp the significant fact that He was not talking to New Testament saints - He was not talking to YOU, precious friend of mine - His words were sent directly to those first-century rulers of the kingdom of Judah!
J.P.Eby

John 1:29 -- behold the Lamb of God that ...TAKETH AWAY the SIN of the...

WORLD  

willie,

World..meaning all kinds of people from every nation and tongue. 

John 1:29 -- behold the Lamb of God that TAKETH AWAY the SIN of the WORLD --  Nothing more is stated in the verse... and nothing more NEEDS to be stated.

RELIGIONISTS add to the WORD of God in order to facilitate their particular RELIGION... and only SORROW shall come of it...

Quote from: lee100 on August 25, 2009, 07:27:08 AM
willie,

World..meaning all kinds of people from every nation and tongue. 

This verse does NOT say this ---> "meaning all KINDS of people from every nation and tongue" ---> YOU DO!   :mshock:

You propose your own "version" of the Holy WORD of God, to your demise... REPENT Aaron!  We know who you are!

Without regard to warnings given unto you, which admonish to do OTHERWISE, ...Here you pose yet another ADDITION to the HOLY and Sacred Writings of YHVH GOD, which shall only ADD the PLAGUES within His Writings, ..unto yourself... Rev 22:18

One more "witness" against you... CoG37!  :sigh:

Sorry to break the news 2ya, ...the word "WORLD" this verse means:  KOSMOS #G2889 -- ORDERLY ARRANGEMENT -- decoration --by IMPLICATION -- WORLD in a wide or narrow sense to include the inhabitants...

It is used time and again in the WORD, which you IGNORE... :pitiful:

It also appears in the following verses: John 3:16-17 -- Matt 12:32 -- Matt 13:39 -- Luke 9:25 -- John 8:23 --John 3:19 -- John 15:19 --1 Cor 1:27 -- 1 John 5:4 -- John 9:5 --   These are but a FEW of the appearances (PLUS over 100 in the NT) ALL relate to THIS WORLD = EARTH, speaking in postive and negative contexts... but still DESCRIBING the EARTH and its INHABITANTS...

Well? Are you going to ADMIT that you are COG37, ...lee100?  :dontknow:

Quote from: lee100 on August 25, 2009, 07:27:08 AM
willie,

World..meaning all kinds of people from every nation and tongue. 

Your exegesis is just a blatant opportunity for you to twist.

If it meant what you say, it would say it.....but it doesn't.

which taketh away the sin of the world.

How can you take something so big and inclusive and make it exclusive.



It doesn't even say sins......as in many. it says sin......a condition......which taketh away the sin of the world.

Quote from: Shawn_71 on August 25, 2009, 08:30:58 AM
It doesn't even say sins......as in may. it says sin......a condition......which taketh away the sin of the world.

Nice point  :thumbsup:

C'mon Willie!  You don't know John 3:16 should REALLY read, "For God so loved all kinds of people from every nation and tongue that He gave His only begotten Son..."?  Man, I'm disappointed in 'ya :laughing7:. 

Quote from: lee100 on August 25, 2009, 07:27:08 AM
World..meaning all kinds of people from every nation and tongue. 

But isn't every nation, full of ALL KINDS of people who inhabit the land in which they live?

"For God so loves ALL the inhabitants!"

Can you speak in every language for ALL of them?

Quote from: jabcat on August 25, 2009, 08:39:37 AM
C'mon Willie!  You don't know John 3:16 should REALLY read, "For God so loved all kinds of people from every nation and tongue that He gave His only begotten Son..."?  Man, I'm disappointed in 'ya :laughing7:. 

And not even that translation (explicitly) states exclusion.
All kinds simply means: large/small, fat/thin, foolish/wise, black/white.
Plus as I asked several time to Lee: Was there even one God worshipper in ancient pagan nations? If not every nation should be several nations. And I think it's likely that there where whole pagan nations that didn't knew God. In the OT we it's a foccused around the Jews.
Other nations only indirectly hav econtact with God when the Jews happend to be in that nation. But the Jews never travelled the whole planet meeting all nations in the OT days.

Quote from: Lee Damboise"This age" plainly indicates the age of Law. Jesus came under the age of the Law. "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, MADE UNDER THE LAW, to redeem them that were under the law..." (Gal. 4:4-5). The age that was to come, the age then imminent and impending was this present age of the church. The two ages of unforgiveness are thus clearly defined as the law age and the grace age. These words could not in any manner apply to any except people then living prior to Calvary and the birth of the church age on the day of Pentecost. You will never in a million years understand the deep mystery and meaning of Jesus' teaching on this subject until you grasp the significant fact that He was not talking to New Testament saints - He was not talking to YOU, precious friend of mine - His words were sent directly to those first-century rulers of the kingdom of Judah!
J.P.Eby

I just love it when Jesus speaks prophesy that is completely accurate.  This age and the age to come--how could he have known there was an age to come?  How could he have known that his little ragtag band of disciples would not only grow to be a mighty force but actually change the course of history?  The age of grace comes as much from those dispensing God's grace as it does directly from God.

Likewise when he tells the Pharisees that he leaves their house desolate, when he tells the disciples that not one stone will be left upon another, referring to the temple--how could he have known that within 30 years the temple would be torn down and never rebuilt, that there would never again be a Levite priesthood or a temple sacrifice?  And, in 2000 years, there has not.

It's times like these that I can clearly see, Surely this man was the Son of God.

Quote from: jabcat on August 25, 2009, 08:39:37 AM
C'mon Willie!  You don't know John 3:16 should REALLY read, "For God so loved all kinds of people from every nation and tongue that He gave His only begotten Son..."?  Man, I'm disappointed in 'ya :laughing7:. 

:laughing7: