I've been thinking about this a lot over the last year and I just want to note a few points and crystalize my thoughts in writing. Let me know what you think.
One of the major differences between mainstream church beliefs and the beliefs of someone who knows and understands UR is in the purpose of life.
The mainstream Church:
- the purpose of life is to get to the "right" destination (ie. heaven)
- Do the "right" things and say the right prayer, and you will get your reward in heaven. But slip up, and you are condemned forever.
- always keep the focus on the destination lest you slip and end up in the wrong destination (hell)
- essentially this life is just a giant filter to get people who are smart/lucky/worthy enough into heaven and then discard the rest
After understanding the truth of God's plan for universal reconcilliation:
- while the destination is important, we don't have to worry about it as God will get us there in his own time
- the purpose of life is the journey
- we are here to learn and gain experience
- specifically, we are here to learn what good & evil is, and to learn to be righteous and humble
- essentially this life is a training ground for the "few chosen" out of the "many called". The rest will have their training lesson completed later in the lake of fire.
- once everyone has completed their training, they will fully understand good & evil, and will realize good trumps evil. Then all will be righteous & humble.
IMHO this is a complete paradigm shift between the two views. That is why it is so difficult to explain the concept of UR to someone who is still stuck in Babylon (the mainstream church). They are too focused on getting to the right destination to worry about the journey. If you take Hell out of the equation, it completely shatters their paradigm. With no hell, there is only one destination, so what is the purpose of it all?
But of course we know God will get us to the one destination, and the purpose of it all is the journey.
Cheers,
Legoman
Hmm, just thought of something else here.
This is all too common in the mainstream church:
- once the right prayer is said (ie. the sinner's prayer), you don't have to worry about getting to the right destination anymore, so you can just go back to your daily life and not worry about learning anything else spiritual.
Legoman
The purpose of life is the destination rather than the journey, even if the destination isn't "heaven/hell." People have read their heaven/hell thing into all of the passages where St. Paul was scared to death of falling short, missing out on the prize, having an inferior resurrection, not completing his course with joy, not competing according to the rules, and maybe a dozen other ways that he said it. The purpose of life for each of us is the destination that Jesus Christ has given to each of us on our knees when we received our knighthood and ambassadorship from Him, so for each person it's going to be something different.
I've had people fall out with me because mine wasn't like theirs, though I never one time ever spoke a condemning word to them about theirs since without a manifestation of Holy Spirit within me, I wasn't going to know what theirs was anyway. I've had people that I even trusted that fell out with me because of the enormity of what's before me and they took on Eliab's attitude from 1Samuel 17:
28Now Eliab his oldest brother heard when he spoke to the men; and Eliab's anger burned against David and he said, "Why have you come down? And with whom have you left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know your insolence and the wickedness of your heart; for you have come down in order to see the battle."
29But David said, "What have I done now? Was it not just a question?"
And everytime I bump into that, I just think of Joseph's murderous and envious brothers while the Word of the Lord's trying me. It's just Eastern nonsense that says that the point of the journey is the journey itself and not whether you ever get anywhere. Too many judgment passages that assert otherwise and that Jesus isn't just passing around the marijuana and saying to enjoy the journey 'cause you're never really going anywhere 'cause only He's going anywhere. To the Old Testament Jews, Jesus said to take up your cross and follow Him. To the New Testament crowd that Jesus doesn't speak figuratively to at all, according to what He said in John's Gospel, it's about being the exact representation of the invisible Christ, an imitation of God, an imitation of St. Paul, and an imitation of Onesimus.
And that's irrespective of the direction He sends us in to accomplish what He's wanting for each of us to do as Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Bishop, Administrations, Gifts of Healings, Workers of Miracles, Ministry of Helps, Encouragers, Financiers, etc., as St. Paul outlined for us in Romans 12, 1Corinthians 12, 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9, Ephesians 4, his pastoral epistles, and in what the authors of Hebrews, Peters, and John's writings laid out for us. So, the New Testament tells us what the journey is supposed to be like: looking just like Him. And then each of us according to the grace given to us goes where He sends us, i.e. destination.
I see really vital points in both posts :thumbsup:. Maybe an answer to the OP question is "yes" :happygrin:. I understand it as the destination isn't only a place, but a position or standing...either responsibility and glory, or continued corrective discipline. :2c: from a guy still running the race. God's blessing, Js.
What's the use of a journey with a pre-defined destination, if you do not reach where you were headed?
And in the same vein, what is the point of reaching the destination, only to find out the fruit is spoiled?
"Every Journey begins with a first step, and every step is it's own journey."
Thus, the focus of this journey and the destination is found, or predicated in/on the condition of the fruit within a given duration of time.
Now that's what I call running the race, as in the current flow of water passing through a narrow channel – this course called life which leads into the next. And, it appears to be never ending!
peacemaker
Yes good points all round. We are all running a race, and we should run it in such a way as we will win the prize.
Martin, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Sorry I didn't mean to imply any "eastern nonsense" about Jesus passing the marijuana around :winkgrin: - that wasn't where I was going. Let me try to expand my original thought to provide some more insight.
Yes, the destination is important. What is the destination? Its not just "heaven" - its God's ultimate goal - his will & purpose. God wants us all to know him. It will happen through Jesus. God is building a family. God wants sons and daughters. And he wants them to be in his image - loving, good, righteous, humble. However, currently we are not that good, or righteous, or humble.
So, why didn't he just create us that way (good, righteous, humble) to begin with? Why even give us this temporary earthly fleshly life if its all going to pass away anyways? What's the point of this earthly life?
Mainstream Christianity would have us believe the point of this life is that we are given a free chance and opportunity to accept Christ, and this life is the only chance you are going to get to do it. We as believers in UR know that is not true. Yes we must accept Christ, but luckily this is not our only chance.
That's where I was going with my OP. The point of this earthly life is not just to get to the destination. If that was the only reason for this life, God wouldn't have even needed to give us this fleshly experience. He could have just created us with him and we would be done with it.
But there is a point to this life - the "journey" of this life. We were all put on this earth so we could learn, gain experience, go through trials, be judged and chastised, and be humbled. We are here to grow and learn, learn of God's love, learn what goodness is.
I think this gets lost sometimes, especially when you are concerned about keeping yourself out of hell. Even when you come out of the ET mindset, you might not realize what the purpose of it all is.
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
The Lord loves His sons, and theres a whole lot of scourging to be done to His sons (that's us) before we will really learn what goodness & humility is. Thats what this life is for. For those who don't know Christ in this life, they will get their scourging in the Lake of Fire.
We are being made (present tense) in His image, right now - it is a process, and its not finished yet.
JMHO,
Legoman
That's what I really thought you were saying legoman...and that's why I thought both yours and Martin's posts answered the OP...and now good points by PM... :thumbsup:
Great posts!
Both the journey and the destination are important. But like Legoman said, the destination is not dependent on how we make our journey, unlike how the orthodox Christians state. Our journey is important, and we learn so much along the way, about what is really important. But I think we can't really enjoy the destination without having the obstacles we encounter along the journey. Thus we discover the Father and the Son and what is the purpose of the journey. To my thinking tho, the destination is another beginning of ......perhaps another journey, who knows, there may be some rest, but then it's off on another adventure. I think there are more ages beyond these ages.
Have a great weekend everyone
Yes good point ScarletWren...
Its not really a "destination" exactly. Sure we will be with God... but then it will keep going.
His Kingdom will grow and go on without end.
Perhaps we will just always be learning. Its hard to imagine, but it will be glorious!
Cheers,
Legoman
It is the journey. We only really talk about the destination in the sense of what we have come to believe.
I'd rather see an Atheist that spends their life doing the best they can for the life they lead rather than a whole church of Christians believing they have made it into Heaven cause of their great choice as they point their finger at the atheist and remind him of the fate they believe awaits.
I spent many years of my life hating my "journey" in life as Christians talk about rewards and pleasing God and reminding me of the terrible things my "journey" had in it.
Now I see that we are to make the best of our journey, run the race, if you are not prepared for the race, if you do not make the best of things while your running the race, it doesn't matter where or what the finish line is.
I love my journey and where it leads it where it leads.
QuoteI understand it as the destination isn't only a place, but a position or standing...either responsibility and glory, or continued corrective discipline.
Absolutely!
I like this these verses...
Romans 8:20-21
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
In other words, the destination is walking in freedom, and the journey to this destination is being subjected to futility. This destination is the redemption of our bodies/adoption as sons.
Romans 8:22-25
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
This is why we walk and live by faith.
I agree Sarah. We don't hope for what we have. It takes no faith to wait for something we already have.
Sometimes though, we don't even know what we possess, such as assured deliverance from this body of death.