"And these shall go away into everlasting[G166 Aionios] punishment; but the righteous into life eternal[G166 Aionios]" Matthew 25:46.
"Who shall be punished with everlasting[G166 Aionios] destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" 2Thessalonians 1:9.
The english word everlasting or eternal in Matt.25:46 and 2Thess 1:9 is translated for the Greek word aion. Aionios is the adjective form of the word Aion. Here is the definition of aion from Strongs Greek Concordance and the Blueletter Bible Lexicon. Aion[G165]:
1) forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
Wait a minute. Are they saying this little four letter Greek word has all these meanings? Two things need to be noted here:
1. Those lexicons have aion meaning both age and eternal. How can a word be it's own antonym? In other words, how can aion mean both age and eternal when age and eternal have opposite meanings? That's against the laws of grammer.
2. How can aion mean world, age, and eternity when the Greeks have specific words for those english words? Case in point, The Greek word for world is Kosmos[G2889] not aion. The Greek word for eternity is Aidios[G126] not aion. And the Greek word for age is aion[G165]. If the writers wanted to convey the idea of forever in Matthew 25:46 and 2Thessalonians 1:9, they would have used the Greek word aidios[G126].
So aion always means age never eternal. A better translation of aion would be eon or the alternate dictionary spelling aeon, because eon has an adjective form where as age does not. For instance, the adjective form of the Greek word aion[G165] is aionios[G166], likewise, the adjective form of the english word eon is eonian. Also, get a good dictionary that traces the orgin of words and look up the english words eternal and eon. You will find eternal is traced back to latin, and you will find eon, which means age or a period of time is traced back to the Greek word aion. The Bible of course was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
And one other point: Aion and the alternate dictionary spelling of eon(aeon) almost spell the same, aion-aeon. That's because many of the letters of the Greek alphabet are the same as the letters of the English alphabet.
But believers in eternal torment object to this. They say that if aion and it's adjective form aionios mean age or eon, then not only does the punishment of the unbelievers come to an end but also the eternal/aionios life of the believers must come to an end as well, since the same word aionios is used to describe the punishment and life of both groups. I will address that objection in my next post. Blessings.
Believers in eternal punishment say that if Aion means age or eon, then not only does the punishment and torment of those in the lake of fire come to an end, but the eternal life of the believer must come to an end as well, since the same word aionios is used to describe the punishment and life of both groups. They are in fact correct. The eternal(aionios) life of believers mentioned in Matthew 25:46 and John 3:16 does in fact come to an end. That's because believers living forever is not contingent on eternal/aionios life. Believers and everyone else will live forever because they will be made alive or vivified[G2227 zoopoieo] and put on immortality[G110 athanasia] at The Consummation(1Corinthians 15:22-23; 1Corinthians 15:53-55). Also if receiving eternal(aionios) life means living forever, then why do believers still die? Eternal(aionios) life is the special life that God gives to believers to enjoy now---"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" John 17:3. Believers get to enjoy a life of spiritual blessings and a personal relationship with God now and in the ages or eons to come.
Here's something else we need to consider concerning the english words eternal and forever:
Revelation 11:15 says Jesus Christ will reign forever[G165 aion] and ever[G165 aion]. But
1Corinthians 15:24-28 says Jesus Christ reigns until He puts all enemies under His feet, delivers the kingdom to God and subjects Himself and everyone to God. Well which is it? Does Jesus Christ reign forever, or does He reign until He puts all enemies under His feet, then deliver the Kingdom to God? There would be no discrepency here if the translators had translated aion as age or eon instead of eternal. A literal translation clears up this discrepency. A literal translation reads "He shall be reigning for the eons of the eons" Revelation 11:15 Concordant Literal New Testament. Read also Young's Literal Translation. Jesus Christ reigns for at least two or more ages or eons. After these ages or eons end, Jesus Christs delivers the kingdom to God and subjects Himself and everyone else to God at The Consummation(1Corinthians 15:22-28).
Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are tormented day and night forever[G165 aion] and ever[G165 aion]. And means plus or in addition to. Now if forever[G165 aion] means eternity in this passage, what pray tell does "and ever" mean? How can you add to eternity? "Eternity and eternity"? Two eternities? Once again a literal translation clears up this discrepancy--"And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons" Revelation 20:10 CLNT also YLT. They will be tormented for at least two ages or eons. The duration of these ages or eons is not specified here. The torment of unbelievers is not eternal. Once their punishment and torment come to an end they will be made alive or vivified[G2227 zoopoieo] and put on immortality[G110 athanasia] at The Consummation. This means that the punishment of the wicked and unbelievers is age-during or eonian. If aion and it's adjective form aionios had been correctly translated as age or eon, the scriptures of God's wrath, judgment, and punishment of those in the lake of fire would become clear.
It is an insult to Christ to say he reigns "forever and ever" because that would mean he would never accomplish the task of reconciling the whole world to God.
Thank you for this post! You did a great job researching the meanings of these words and making them clear. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Warhawk17 on May 22, 2013, 08:40:39 AM
It is an insult to Christ to say he reigns "forever and ever" because that would mean he would never accomplish the task of reconciling the whole world to God.
Thank you for this post! You did a great job researching the meanings of these words and making them clear. :thumbsup:
You are correct here. Also, If Jesus Christ reigns "forever and ever" there would be no Consummation, Jesus Christ would never abolish death(eternal death), Jesus Christ would never put down and subject His enemies who would then be in eternal rebellion, and God couldn't become All in all. Eternal death, eternal enemies, eternal rebellion, and eternal separation are all unbiblical. Thank you for the kind words. Blessings to you.
Quote from: rjohnson741 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:19 AM
"And these shall go away into everlasting[G166 Aionios] punishment; but the righteous into life eternal[G166 Aionios]" Matthew 25:46.
"Who shall be punished with everlasting[G166 Aionios] destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" 2Thessalonians 1:9.
The english word everlasting or eternal in Matt.25:46 and 2Thess 1:9 is translated for the Greek word aion. Aionios is the adjective form of the word Aion. Here is the definition of aion from Strongs Greek Concordance and the Blueletter Bible Lexicon. Aion[G165]:
1) forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
Wait a minute. Are they saying this little four letter Greek word has all these meanings? Two things need to be noted here:
1. Those lexicons have aion meaning both age and eternal. How can a word be it's own antonym? In other words, how can aion mean both age and eternal when age and eternal have opposite meanings? That's against the laws of grammer.
2. How can aion mean world, age, and eternity when the Greeks have specific words for those english words? Case in point, The Greek word for world is Kosmos[G2889] not aion. The Greek word for eternity is Aidios[G126] not aion. And the Greek word for age is aion[G165]. If the writers wanted to convey the idea of forever in Matthew 25:46 and 2Thessalonians 1:9, they would have used the Greek word aidios[G126].
So aion always means age never eternal. A better translation of aion would be eon or the alternate dictionary spelling aeon, because eon has an adjective form where as age does not. For instance, the adjective form of the Greek word aion[G165] is aionios[G166], likewise, the adjective form of the english word eon is eonian. Also, get a good dictionary that traces the orgin of words and look up the english words eternal and eon. You will find eternal is traced back to latin, and you will find eon, which means age or a period of time is traced back to the Greek word aion. The Bible of course was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
And one other point: Aion and the alternate dictionary spelling of eon(aeon) almost spell the same, aion-aeon. That's because many of the letters of the Greek aphabet are the same as the letters of the English alphabet.
But believers in eternal torment object to this. They say that if aion and it's adjective form aionios mean age or eon, then not only does the punishment of the unbelievers come to an end but also the eternal/aionios life of the believers must come to an end as well, since the same word aionios is used to describe the punishment and life of both groups. I will address that objection in my next post. Blessings.
I refer to Strong's numbers once in awhile out of curiosity, but I think his reference material is bias to church doctrine. I prefer the Concordant Literal New Testament and Keyword Concordance. http://concordant.org/online/index.html I agree with most of what you say, bro, but I think "aidios" should be translated "imperceptible" like in the Concordant Version. Their concordance says "aidion UN-PERCEIVED imperceptible." I'm attaching a few files showing a good explanation of why "aidios" should be "imperceptible."
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Quote from: TomH on May 24, 2013, 04:29:57 PM
Quote from: rjohnson741 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:19 AM
"And these shall go away into everlasting[G166 Aionios] punishment; but the righteous into life eternal[G166 Aionios]" Matthew 25:46.
"Who shall be punished with everlasting[G166 Aionios] destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" 2Thessalonians 1:9.
The english word everlasting or eternal in Matt.25:46 and 2Thess 1:9 is translated for the Greek word aion. Aionios is the adjective form of the word Aion. Here is the definition of aion from Strongs Greek Concordance and the Blueletter Bible Lexicon. Aion[G165]:
1) forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
Wait a minute. Are they saying this little four letter Greek word has all these meanings? Two things need to be noted here:
1. Those lexicons have aion meaning both age and eternal. How can a word be it's own antonym? In other words, how can aion mean both age and eternal when age and eternal have opposite meanings? That's against the laws of grammer.
2. How can aion mean world, age, and eternity when the Greeks have specific words for those english words? Case in point, The Greek word for world is Kosmos[G2889] not aion. The Greek word for eternity is Aidios[G126] not aion. And the Greek word for age is aion[G165]. If the writers wanted to convey the idea of forever in Matthew 25:46 and 2Thessalonians 1:9, they would have used the Greek word aidios[G126].
So aion always means age never eternal. A better translation of aion would be eon or the alternate dictionary spelling aeon, because eon has an adjective form where as age does not. For instance, the adjective form of the Greek word aion[G165] is aionios[G166], likewise, the adjective form of the english word eon is eonian. Also, get a good dictionary that traces the orgin of words and look up the english words eternal and eon. You will find eternal is traced back to latin, and you will find eon, which means age or a period of time is traced back to the Greek word aion. The Bible of course was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
And one other point: Aion and the alternate dictionary spelling of eon(aeon) almost spell the same, aion-aeon. That's because many of the letters of the Greek aphabet are the same as the letters of the English alphabet.
But believers in eternal torment object to this. They say that if aion and it's adjective form aionios mean age or eon, then not only does the punishment of the unbelievers come to an end but also the eternal/aionios life of the believers must come to an end as well, since the same word aionios is used to describe the punishment and life of both groups. I will address that objection in my next post. Blessings.
I refer to Strong's numbers once in awhile out of curiosity, but I think his reference material is bias to church doctrine. I prefer the Concordant Literal New Testament and Keyword Concordance. http://concordant.org/online/index.html I agree with most of what you say, bro, but I think "aidios" should be translated "imperceptible" like in the Concordant Version. Their concordance says "aidion UN-PERCEIVED imperceptible." I'm attaching a few files showing a good explanation of why "aidios" should be "imperceptible."
You are correct here TomH, and thanks for those files. The Concordant Literal New Testament does translate aidios as imperceptible. That being the case, neither the Hebrews or the Greeks had a corresponding word that meant the english word eternal. The Hebrew and Greek writers used negative words like "neither" and "no", "beginning" and "end" to their words to convey their understanding of eternity:
"Gods years have no end" Psalm 102:27
"And of his kingdom there shall be no end" Luke 1:33
"God has neither beginning of days nor end of life" Hebrews 7:3
"God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" Revelation 1:8, Revelation 22:13
As you can see, those scriptures describe forever or eternity without using the english word eternal. The Greek word aion and it's adjective form aionios always mean age or eon, and never forever. If the translators had correctly translated the Greek word aion as age or eon in Matthew 25:46, 2Thessalonians 1:9, Revelation 20:10, and other places in the Bible, the purpose of the wrath, judgment, and punishment, upon the wicked and unbelievers would become clear. Thanks again for an informative post. Blessings.
Quote from: rjohnson741 on May 24, 2013, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: TomH on May 24, 2013, 04:29:57 PM
Quote from: rjohnson741 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:19 AM
"And these shall go away into everlasting[G166 Aionios] punishment; but the righteous into life eternal[G166 Aionios]" Matthew 25:46.
"Who shall be punished with everlasting[G166 Aionios] destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" 2Thessalonians 1:9.
The english word everlasting or eternal in Matt.25:46 and 2Thess 1:9 is translated for the Greek word aion. Aionios is the adjective form of the word Aion. Here is the definition of aion from Strongs Greek Concordance and the Blueletter Bible Lexicon. Aion[G165]:
1) forever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
Wait a minute. Are they saying this little four letter Greek word has all these meanings? Two things need to be noted here:
1. Those lexicons have aion meaning both age and eternal. How can a word be it's own antonym? In other words, how can aion mean both age and eternal when age and eternal have opposite meanings? That's against the laws of grammer.
2. How can aion mean world, age, and eternity when the Greeks have specific words for those english words? Case in point, The Greek word for world is Kosmos[G2889] not aion. The Greek word for eternity is Aidios[G126] not aion. And the Greek word for age is aion[G165]. If the writers wanted to convey the idea of forever in Matthew 25:46 and 2Thessalonians 1:9, they would have used the Greek word aidios[G126].
So aion always means age never eternal. A better translation of aion would be eon or the alternate dictionary spelling aeon, because eon has an adjective form where as age does not. For instance, the adjective form of the Greek word aion[G165] is aionios[G166], likewise, the adjective form of the english word eon is eonian. Also, get a good dictionary that traces the orgin of words and look up the english words eternal and eon. You will find eternal is traced back to latin, and you will find eon, which means age or a period of time is traced back to the Greek word aion. The Bible of course was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
And one other point: Aion and the alternate dictionary spelling of eon(aeon) almost spell the same, aion-aeon. That's because many of the letters of the Greek aphabet are the same as the letters of the English alphabet.
But believers in eternal torment object to this. They say that if aion and it's adjective form aionios mean age or eon, then not only does the punishment of the unbelievers come to an end but also the eternal/aionios life of the believers must come to an end as well, since the same word aionios is used to describe the punishment and life of both groups. I will address that objection in my next post. Blessings.
I refer to Strong's numbers once in awhile out of curiosity, but I think his reference material is bias to church doctrine. I prefer the Concordant Literal New Testament and Keyword Concordance. http://concordant.org/online/index.html I agree with most of what you say, bro, but I think "aidios" should be translated "imperceptible" like in the Concordant Version. Their concordance says "aidion UN-PERCEIVED imperceptible." I'm attaching a few files showing a good explanation of why "aidios" should be "imperceptible."
You are correct here TomH, and thanks for those files. The Concordant Literal New Testament does translate aidios as imperceptible. That being the case, neither the Hebrews or the Greeks had a corresponding word that meant the english word eternal. The Hebrew and Greek writers used negative words like "neither" and "no", "beginning" and "end" to their words to convey their understanding of eternity:
"Gods years have no end" Psalm 102:27
"And of his kingdom there shall be no end" Luke 1:33
"God has neither beginning of days nor end of life" Hebrews 7:3
"God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" Revelation 1:8, Revelation 22:13
As you can see, those scriptures describe forever or eternity without using the english word eternal. The Greek word aion and it's adjective form aionios always mean age or eon, and never forever. If the translators had correctly translated the Greek word aion as age or eon in Matthew 25:46, 2Thessalonians 1:9, Revelation 20:10, and other places in the Bible, the purpose of the wrath, judgment, and punishment, upon the wicked and unbelievers would become clear. Thanks again for an informative post. Blessings.
Amen, brother. I think only God can really be considered "eternal," without beginning or end, but scripture concerning man is about the eons. It is the Roman church that has distorted the evangel with the immortal soul being tortured forever in fire to try to terrorize its flock to come through it for salvation rather than Christ. I thank God I left that church when I was young and began studying the word of God to know the truth. God bless you, bro.
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
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