Is anything less then Universal Reconciliation really the gospel?
Should we respect anything that is called the gospel but is not?
It's just one little doctrine, right?
.
I treat people who believe against UR with respect, but no, I don't respect their doctrines. It's not really one little doctrine either. It's the power of God unto salvation.
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:17:15 PM
I treat people who believe against UR with respect, but no, I don't respect their doctrines. It's not really one little doctrine either. It's the power of God unto salvation.
So do Professing Christians who do not proclaim UR, proclaim the gospel?
Good news is.........................Jesus the savior from sin!
No UR in that statement.
.
and... how could it be "good news" (gospel) without ultimate reconciliation?
Without UR, the good news is not good news for anyone.
Yes, the "saved" have good news for them but the thought of loved ones, friends and family all being tortured for all eternity makes a mockery of anything less than the good news of ultimate reconciliation. :Chinscratch:
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
And Judaizing is a gospel of works. Saying you must follow ALL of the law (an impossibility) for God to approve of you.
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:36:44 PM
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
How about this...2Co 11:3 and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty,
so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Christ; Me thinks man has much to do with taking the simplicity out of the Good News. But that's just me. :dsunny:
Simple but not simplistic.
BTW, the word "haplotes" from which "simplicity" is translated, does not necessarily mean simplicity as we are talking about. It was primarily translated in other parts of the Bible as abundance of generosity, or single-mindedness.
Was Eve single minded? No. She was beguiled. She listened to another.
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:36:44 PM
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
So you can't break the gospel down to one sentence?
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
BTW, the word "haplotes" from which "simplicity" is translated, does not necessarily mean simplicity as we are talking about. It was primarily translated in other parts of the Bible as abundance of generosity, or single-mindedness.
Was Eve single minded? No. She was beguiled. She listened to another.
Simplicity:G572
ἁπλότης
haplotēs
hap-lot'-ace
From G573; singleness, that is, (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal): - bountifulness, liberal (-ity), simplicity, singleness.
2Co 11:3 and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from
the simplicity that is in the Christ; 2Co 1:12 For our glorying is this: the testimony of our conscience,
that in simplicity and sincerity of God, not in fleshly wisdom, but in the grace of God, we did conduct ourselves in the world, and more abundantly toward you;
Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth,
let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
There are the 3 times the word "haplotēs" is used.
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:45:03 PM
Simple but not simplistic.
Spirituality but not spiritualism. :laugh:
Quote from: ed on January 16, 2014, 11:51:18 PM
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:36:44 PM
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
So you can't break the gospel down to one sentence?
Yes....JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN! :dsunny: :dsunny:
Simplicity:G572
ἁπλότης
haplotēs
hap-lot'-ace
From G573; singleness, that is, (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal): - bountifulness, liberal (-ity), simplicity, singleness.
2Co 11:3 and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the single-mindedness that is in the Christ;
Eph 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Col 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
Quote from: ed on January 16, 2014, 11:51:18 PM
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:36:44 PM
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
So you can't break the gospel down to one sentence?
Yes I can, but what does that matter? The Gospel is still a larger teaching which must be obeyed.
"Jesus is Risen" is part of the Gospel. I agree. Then why was Paul so upset that the Galatians were being beguiled by the Judaizers? Couldn't the Galatians turn around to Paul and say "Jesus is risen" then continue to perfect themselves through circumcision?
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 17, 2014, 12:12:54 AM
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:45:03 PM
Simple but not simplistic.
Spirituality but not spiritualism. :laugh:
Men measure and mock words. Father measures and loves spirit filled hearts
Where is your Love :sigh:
Quote from: ed on January 16, 2014, 11:51:18 PM
Quote from: Seth on January 16, 2014, 11:36:44 PM
They preach "Jesus the savior from Hell" though.
And the Gospel is simple but by no means simplistic. Paul was quite passionate in Galatians when he said that if anyone preach another Gospel, let them be anathema (cut off). In context he was talking about Judaizing. The Gospel goes way beyond a simple bottom line. It's a whole teaching, a whole way of living.
So you can't break the gospel down to one sentence?
Of course you can
LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOUR SELF.
What more needs to be said of done.
Love Always wins
Love Julie
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 17, 2014, 02:24:11 AM
What more needs to be said...
In all due respect, I would say:
The book of Romans, the Book of Galatians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Peter, James, Revelation, the four Gospels and on and on.....
Why so many words? Because there is much to know.
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 02:28:13 AM
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 17, 2014, 02:24:11 AM
What more needs to be said...
In all due respect, I would say:
The book of Romans, the Book of Galatians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Peter, James, Revelation, the four Gospels and on and on.....
Why so many words? Because there is much to know.
Witth all due respect, there is nothing more important than those two commandments according to Jesus himself. If any one believes that the TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS are not fit to put in one sentence, then you have lost me. Because all the laws and the prophets hang on these two commandments. Father is LOVE.
If the world loved the way Jesus commanded, who would need to anything else?
Love is the ONLY direct link to Father and Christ.
If the Scriptures teach a different message than LOVE, then laugh at me openly because I am too foolish to speak.
Love Always Julie :HeartThrob:
you said what more needs to be said not what's more important.
:sigh: :dontknow: A single sentence Seth, what more needs to be said To add more to the sentence........why is everything upside down :punish:
I'm responding to Ed's point in this thread. The gospel's much more than 1 sentence and much more needs to be said than 1 sentence
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:21:52 AM
I'm responding to Ed's point in this thread. The gospel's much more than 1 sentence and much more needs to be said than 1 sentence
And I am responding to you. What is more important than the TWO GREATEST Commandments.
Nothing Seth absolutely nothing. There never was or or ever will be.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
we aren't simply talking about the two greatest commandments. We are talking about the entirety of the gospel message the two greatest commandments are part of it it. Not circumcising to make oneself right with God that's another part
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:37:56 AM
we aren't simply talking about the two greatest commandments. We are talking about the entirety of the gospel message the two greatest commandments are part of it it. Not circumcising to make oneself right with God that's another part
Love changes people. Love replaces darkness with light.Father is Love.
I am so sorry that you think words can do more than what Jesus promised if we obeyed fully those two commandments.
Are you missing the Forrest because of the trees?
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
I'd say you are correct. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached a gospel that he called "my gospel". Just looking at the many usages of the word make it more then just one sentence.
Without universal reconciliation the gospel is not full. I believe that it can still be effective even though it is not proclaimed in its entirety. Actually I am proof of that. UR did not come to my awareness for at least 15 years into my Christian walk. I had the relationship but not a complete knowledge.
Of course knowledge puffs up and charity edifies. Christ works within any seeker, even if they never come to the knowledge of UR.
Some are seeking though. The seekers can find. We live in an exciting time.
.
I don't think so.
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
I totally GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did I ever EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say the Gospel NOT more than one sentence.
The original question was: So you can't break the Gospel down in one sentence. I gave the sentence that I believe sums up the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek. I am sorry that you feel compelled to JUMP on every post I make.
IfI am THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS, then please tell me as I have well and truly warn out my welcome and will LEAVE.
Love, do you have any idea of the meaning of the word????????
I just think some people have a need to complicate things sometimes. I ain't pointing no fingers, just saying.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 17, 2014, 05:03:25 AM
I totally GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did I ever EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say the Gospel NOT more than one sentence.
That was my only point in this thread. Ed brought up the question, so I responded.
QuoteThe original question was: So you can't break the Gospel down in one sentence. I gave the sentence that I believe sums up the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek.
You gave one sentence, and you said "What more needs to be SAID than that?" The book of Romans for example, is much longer and more complex than the sentence you provided.
Ed said:
"So do Professing Christians who do not proclaim UR, proclaim the gospel? Good news is.........................Jesus the savior from sin! No UR in that statement."My point is that the Gospel message is more than that, which is why issues of circumcision arose, the importance of belief, receiving the Spirit but also continuing to abide in Christ. Yes, the Gospel can be broken down into one sentence, but one sentence does not describe all the important things necessary to be obedient to the Gospel, like not Judiazing as an example, and the Day of the Lord, and being watchful and not going to sleep.....etc etc etc.
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 05:18:15 AM
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 17, 2014, 05:03:25 AM
I totally GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did I ever EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say the Gospel NOT more than one sentence.
That was my only point in this thread. Ed brought up the question, so I responded.
QuoteThe original question was: So you can't break the Gospel down in one sentence. I gave the sentence that I believe sums up the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek.
You gave one sentence, and you said "What more needs to be SAID than that?" The book of Romans for example, is much longer and more complex than the sentence you provided.
Ed said: "So do Professing Christians who do not proclaim UR, proclaim the gospel? Good news is.........................Jesus the savior from sin! No UR in that statement."
My point is that the Gospel message is more than that, which is why issues of circumcision arose, the importance of belief, receiving the Spirit but also continuing to abide in Christ. Yes, the Gospel can be broken down into one sentence, but one sentence does not describe all the important things necessary to be obedient to the Gospel, like not Judiazing as an example, and the Day of the Lord, and being watchful and not going to sleep.....etc etc etc.
:friendstu: If we could only follow those two commandments, we would always be obedient to the Gospels. For on those commandments the Law hangs. If any teaching is taught at the expense of Love, which is something neither Jesus or Paul ever did, the message is lost. This is why the Church misleads so many. The people do not know and the church does not teach it. Oh they are reading the words, but the words are empty of light, rather they cast a shadow of deceit. Even over our Lord Jesus Christ.
Father is LOVE.
Love Always, Julie :HeartThrob:
QuoteIf we could only follow those two commandments, we would always be obedient to the Gospels.
I think we are talking about apples and oranges. I am not talking about what is required to fulfill the Law. I agree, it only takes Love. I am talking about what it takes to understand the Gospel and be obedient to it. The Gospel says more than love your neighbor. It says also to believe in Jesus. It says also to repent. It says also that Jesus Christ will save the whole world, not just a few people.
There is much more to understanding the meaning of the Gospel then loving your neighbor, even though loving your neighbor and God is the only thing you need to fulfill the Law.
Ed's question: So do Professing Christians who do not proclaim UR, proclaim the gospel?While Christians would agree that we should love your neighbor and to love God, they don't understand that Christ will save the whole world. Without that component, they are not "proclaiming" the Gospel. But wait, that's not all. IF they "proclaim" that a man can be saved through circumcision, they are not proclaiming the Gospel. If they "proclaim" that a man can be saved any other way but through receiving the Holy Spirit, they are not proclaiming the Gospel. IF they "proclaim" the existence of Hell, they are not proclaiming the Gospel Etc.
The reason the book of Romans and Corinthians are so long is because the Apostles are explaining WHY it's good news. It's not good news, unless you know WHY, and they spend many pages explaining that.
Everything the Apostles taught is intrinsic to the Gospel, and there is much more to the doctrine than loving God and loving your neighbor, even if the underlying message is simple.
Quote from: ed on January 17, 2014, 04:34:26 AM
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
I'd say you are correct. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached a gospel that he called "my gospel". Just looking at the many usages of the word make it more then just one sentence.
Without universal reconciliation the gospel is not full. I believe that it can still be effective even though it is not proclaimed in its entirety. Actually I am proof of that. UR did not come to my awareness for at least 15 years into my Christian walk. I had the relationship but not a complete knowledge.
Of course knowledge puffs up and charity edifies. Christ works within any seeker, even if they never come to the knowledge of UR.
Some are seeking though. The seekers can find. We live in an exciting time.
.
That's true. The internet has been a real blessing for seekers which we all are.
Check out this example. If we take the word NEWS from "good news" I think about what news really is. A reporter would say it's the "what, when, where, why, and how." If you turned on your local news and heard
"this just in, there was a car crash, and now for the weather..." that might be a bit perplexing. Where was the car crash? Should avoid that highway? When did it happen? Was anyone hurt? Is there anything I should know to avoid having the same crash? Were they texting and driving? Ran a red light? Pothole?
That's what I see all the books of the NT as, and why they are longer than a sentence. It's news. It's what, when, where, why and how...
very good analogy......and as we are aware..different news channels have different agenda's...
'governments 'censor for national security..truth can be suppressed..mis-information can
run rampant" cover-up's partial truth's...rivalry's..............false-report's,rumour's..etc.
some time's the full fact's are not reported..or a news-worthy story may develope and be
revealed over time....... :thumbsup:
Yup :thumbsup:
Quote from: ed on January 17, 2014, 04:34:26 AM
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
I'd say you are correct. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached a gospel that he called "my gospel". Just looking at the many usages of the word make it more then just one sentence.
Without universal reconciliation the gospel is not full. I believe that it can still be effective even though it is not proclaimed in its entirety. Actually I am proof of that. UR did not come to my awareness for at least 15 years into my Christian walk. I had the relationship but not a complete knowledge.
Of course knowledge puffs up and charity edifies. Christ works within any seeker, even if they never come to the knowledge of UR.
Some are seeking though. The seekers can find. We live in an exciting time.
.
Good post. We tend to generalize, "Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks on the heart".
But IMO one thing is for sure, any gospel that does not include UR is not full.
Jesus saves from sin, but if He does not save all, or even most from sin, that gospel is really...
"Jesus provides an access for those few who have heard and seen and responded in this age to escape the consequences of sin and death-and everybody else burns forever or gets destroyed from existence eternally."
This is not good news to any person with even a jot of common sense.
Only the gospel that saves all, that prays "Father forgive them they dont know what they are doing", that declares, "If i be lifted up I will draw all men unto me", is the good news of God's plan, "THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS
which God has spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets from the foundation of the world"(Acts 3:19-21) is the true gospel, the full gospel.
Jesus saves from sin, but the sin of a corrupted gospel will be overcome by the only true gospel that ever was,
"For so it pleased the Father for all the fulness to dwell in Him and having made peace by the blood of His cross, to reconcile all things to Himself by the blood of His cross, whether things in earth or things in heaven."
We all have been here before on this subject and all we do is change our words.
The Gospel- Good News is what christians( those who believe in today's world) believe, that Jesus Christ, our Savior, died on a tree for the sins of the whole world. And that is good news (ad that) He will have all men to be saved, now that is not the Gospel/GoodNews to the multitudes who believe in the denominations-sects, of theology and religion that have been birthed.
The Gospel, in the general focus of christianity and most (religions) is accepted and believed as long as somebody pays for all the ugly that has been performed in the world. Now there is the key, there is the selling point of what is called the gospel that is sold today, SOMEBODY MUST-WILL PAY, BECAUSE I AM NOT LIKE THAT NO MORE, SO MAKE EM PAY! That is the gospel.
In other words the gospel today, and for some time now, is that God, with all his love and justice, will when the (ha ha) apocalypse (ha ha) happens, just about all of humanity will lose out and not go to heaven, but to hell.
I personally don't believe in going to heaven[I find no scripture for such a belief] and I most certainly no longer accept the myth and fable of going to hell. But I also find it humorous that the same christian, gospel believing, snake handling, tongue speaking, believing the KJV being the inerrant word of God, any group of folks who consider The Revelation of Jesus Christ to be literal when they want it to be and spiritual when it suits them.
Let me say that the Gospel/Good News today is a very muddy river. We, me, you and I are in a state of wait, and if any are like me, it is a very uncomfortable state, still and yet here is our strength
Psa 46:10 Desist, and know that I am God, I am exalted among nations, I am exalted in the earth.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 17, 2014, 05:03:25 AM
Quote from: Seth on January 17, 2014, 03:56:50 AM
I am saying the Gospel is more than one sentence.
I totally GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did I ever EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say the Gospel NOT more than one sentence.
The original question was: So you can't break the Gospel down in one sentence. I gave the sentence that I believe sums up the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek. I am sorry that you feel compelled to JUMP on every post I make.
IfI am THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS, then please tell me as I have well and truly warn out my welcome and will LEAVE.
Love, do you have any idea of the meaning of the word????????
The Apostle John agrees with you, Julie:
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
--1 John 4
Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. [I John 4:18]
In my perspective since you included my quote, Molly, two verses do not an entire testament make. and that really was the original point of this thread to begin with. Paul preached belief in Christ too, but also added the importance of growing in Grace and avoiding those who would make you debtors to the Law.
yes...the circumcision group...who tie up heavy loads impossible to bear...which is ironic..coz
they 'teach' law..but practice lawlessness..for it is against the Law of loving your brother
as yourself..to tie up a load on him impossible to bear..that you don't even 'lift a little finger'
or practice yourself.[I have much more to declare to you,but at present ye can not bear it]
it is always what comes outof a man's heart that defiles him.........fruits of the spirit...
kindness,mercy,righteousness,long-suffering/pateince,mildness,joy,faith,self-control,peace
truth,love...again such there is no law.
Quote from: Seth on January 18, 2014, 08:59:23 PM
In my perspective since you included my quote, Molly, two verses do not an entire testament make. and that really was the original point of this thread to begin with. Paul preached belief in Christ too, but also added the importance of growing in Grace and avoiding those who would make you debtors to the Law.
Oops. I didn't mean to include your post, Seth.
I also agree with what you have said--that Jesus was persecuted for the things he said, more than for the things he did.
The things he did showed him as powerful and even supported his claims [if you do not believe me, believe the works], but he was saying things that the Pharisees found very threatening. And, the Pharisees were more interested in their own power, than in God.
--which of course hasn't changed even to this day.
IMO :winkgrin:
PS I also agree the Gospel is very deep for those who wish to plunge into it.
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 18, 2014, 05:13:00 AM
We all have been here before on this subject and all we do is change our words.
The Gospel- Good News is what christians( those who believe in today's world) believe, that Jesus Christ, our Savior, died on a tree for the sins of the whole world. And that is good news (ad that) He will have all men to be saved, now that is not the Gospel/GoodNews to the multitudes who believe in the denominations-sects, of theology and religion that have been birthed.
The Gospel, in the general focus of christianity and most (religions) is accepted and believed as long as somebody pays for all the ugly that has been performed in the world. Now there is the key, there is the selling point of what is called the gospel that is sold today, SOMEBODY MUST-WILL PAY, BECAUSE I AM NOT LIKE THAT NO MORE, SO MAKE EM PAY! That is the gospel.
In other words the gospel today, and for some time now, is that God, with all his love and justice, will when the (ha ha) apocalypse (ha ha) happens, just about all of humanity will lose out and not go to heaven, but to hell.
I personally don't believe in going to heaven[I find no scripture for such a belief] and I most certainly no longer accept the myth and fable of going to hell. But I also find it humorous that the same christian, gospel believing, snake handling, tongue speaking, believing the KJV being the inerrant word of God, any group of folks who consider The Revelation of Jesus Christ to be literal when they want it to be and spiritual when it suits them.
Let me say that the Gospel/Good News today is a very muddy river. We, me, you and I are in a state of wait, and if any are like me, it is a very uncomfortable state, still and yet here is our strength
Psa 46:10 Desist, and know that I am God, I am exalted among nations, I am exalted in the earth.
I feel you frustration.
Three different gospels.
One Jesus saves some and has the others tortured forever.
One Jesus saves some and raises the rest just to be killed.
One Jesus saves all.
Only one is really good news.
Sectarians rarely even look that their beliefs on the matter. Universal Reconciliation has been little known because the information flow was slow.
Now the information flow is fast...........I mean fast. Is it worth it to argue doctrine on the internet? I'm really seeing that the message of UR is ballooning very quickly. I'm finding that arguing the doctrine is easy, worth the time, and there is a wealth of supportive information on the internet. In the few years that I took off from the topic, the resources have quadrupled.
Often when I argue doctrine, the one I am arguing with will never change their mind. I'm just using that as a platform for anyone who may be reading our gross debate, to point the direction to the better of the gospels.
.
Quote from: Molly on January 18, 2014, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Seth on January 18, 2014, 08:59:23 PM
In my perspective since you included my quote, Molly, two verses do not an entire testament make. and that really was the original point of this thread to begin with. Paul preached belief in Christ too, but also added the importance of growing in Grace and avoiding those who would make you debtors to the Law.
Oops. I didn't mean to include your post, Seth.
I also agree with what you have said--that Jesus was persecuted for the things he said, more than for the things he did.
The things he did showed him as powerful and even supported his claims [if you do not believe me, believe the works], but he was saying things that the Pharisees found very threatening. And, the Pharisees were more interested in their own power, than in God.
--which of course hasn't changed even to this day.
IMO :winkgrin:
PS I also agree the Gospel is very deep for those who wish to plunge into it.
:thumbsup:
Change of heart. When I believed in annihilation I had a hard time with "God's love for the world". My thinking was damaged by the doctrine. I could only have as much love as God had.
When I found Universal Reconciliation, my thinking changed toward the world. I was healed from my lack of love for my fellow man who God was probably going to annihilate. Change in doctrinal thinking makes a big difference on how we live in this world. Only one gospel can heal some deep seated spiritual problems. Dragged along we all get there, but the time can be extremely long in coming. "My sheep here my voice".
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Christ, you know it ain't easy.
.
Jhn 15:21
They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.
Jhn 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Jhn 15:23
Whoever hates me hates my Father as well.
Jhn 15:24
If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.
Jhn 15:
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'[/b]
Xref: Psa 35:19
Do not let those gloat over me who are my enemies without cause; do not let those who hate me without reason maliciously wink the eye.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
I'll leave it to the readers to decide if that scripture means they hated him without any reason at all literally, or as it says in verse 21: "because they do not know the one who sent me" and that the scriptures mean he was hated unjustly.
The good news is, that nothing is dependant, on you.
I may want to know What Why where who.
But the answers are there as a gift.
Agift given according His good pleasure.
My God my God why have you forsaken me.
The battle in side my mind says:
If God could forsake some one else.
My mind cannot ignore the fact that, this someone else could be me.
My mind is convinced by the spirit that God can not and will not forsake
any one.
That means he cannot and will not forsake me.
God will use every being to bring Glory to his Son.
His Son brings Glory to his Father.
Quote from: ed on January 18, 2014, 10:25:48 PM
Change of heart. When I believed in annihilation I had a hard time with "God's love for the world". My thinking was damaged by the doctrine. I could only have as much love as God had.
When I found Universal Reconciliation, my thinking changed toward the world. I was healed from my lack of love for my fellow man who God was probably going to annihilate. Change in doctrinal thinking makes a big difference on how we live in this world. Only one gospel can heal some deep seated spiritual problems. Dragged along we all get there, but the time can be extremely long in coming. "My sheep here my voice".
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Christ, you know it ain't easy.
.
It ain't easy, but it sure is beautiful :o)