The Father/Christ drawing all men to himself

[Tim B]

I just ran across these two scriptures and noticed a significant message behind them!

John 6:44 (Amplified Bible)

44No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.

and

John 12:32 (Amplified Bible)

32And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself.

So, in John 6:44 we have Jesus saying that all those that the Father draws to Him will be raised from the dead on the last day, and in John 12:32 we have Christ saying that he will draw ALL men to him! Sounds like a reasonable case for universal salvation to me!  :bigGrin:

[legoman]

Good find Tim!

Start (re)reading the bible without the preconceived ideas of eternal hell, and you will notice the message of UR everywhere!

God will draw all men to himself eventually.

The secondary message that can be taken from that is that NO ONE will come to Christ unless God the Father has caused it!  That is a significant thing to understand, and when/if you finally realize it, it does make some things easier to understand.

Its all happening on God's timetable, not ours  :grin:  Everything has an appointed time.  You will quickly find that many are not open to the concepts of UR... it is not their appointed time to understand it yet, even though it may be our appointed time to share the message...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen...... :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Tim,

And surely some will point to "unless"
God has an elect. They are the "unless"
All is about all of the elect.

Not my personal claims. But that is about how ETs will try to rebuke you when you come up with those valid verses.

[70sevens]

If we are really hungry, we would not construe the verses as such.
We would ask mercy from God for food regardless of God's timetable.

As I said, Jesus is not for the people who have full stomach.

[Mk 2:17]
On hearing this, Jesus said to them,
"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Good find Tim!

Start (re)reading the bible without the preconceived ideas of eternal hell, and you will notice the message of UR everywhere!

God will draw all men to himself eventually.

The secondary message that can be taken from that is that NO ONE will come to Christ unless God the Father has caused it!  That is a significant thing to understand, and when/if you finally realize it, it does make some things easier to understand.

Its all happening on God's timetable, not ours  :grin:  Everything has an appointed time.  You will quickly find that many are not open to the concepts of UR... it is not their appointed time to understand it yet, even though it may be our appointed time to share the message...

[Tim B]

Tim,

And surely some will point to "unless"
God has an elect. They are the "unless"
All is about all of the elect.

Not my personal claims. But that is about how ETs will try to rebuke you when you come up with those valid verses.

WW,

If ETs suggested that I would simply point to where Jesus says, "I, ..., will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself." I guess they could argue that "all" only means "all types," but I'm not so certain that's what Jesus is meaning. It could easily be taken either way, but considering what Paul said, "Just as all were made dead in Adam, all shall be made alive in Christ," the word seems to imply "all persons existing from the past, present, and future". Obviously Paul was not specify just a specific group of people, but all who have died from Adam, which is, after all, every human being who has ever existed.

[j.]

I just ran across these two scriptures and noticed a significant message behind them!

John 6:44 (Amplified Bible)

44No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.

and

John 12:32 (Amplified Bible)

32And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself.

So, in John 6:44 we have Jesus saying that all those that the Father draws to Him will be raised from the dead on the last day, and in John 12:32 we have Christ saying that he will draw ALL men to him! Sounds like a reasonable case for universal salvation to me!  :bigGrin:

The best part is that the Greek word for "draw" literally means "to drag". It's the same word that is used in conjunction with fishermen bringing in their nets.

[70sevens]

Salvation steps in trinity order:

Step 1.  God draws people to Jesus.
Step 2.  Jesus draws people, each individual, to Himself.
            This means that Jesus comes into each individual to be one with him.
Step 3.  Holy Spirit(Christ) abides in him (the saved man) as one.     


John 6:44
God draws people to Jesus.

This talks about step 1 above.

John 12:32
Jesus draws the people who were drawn to Him by God to Himself.

Here "all men" does not mean Gentiles and Jews.
"All men" means those who followed Jesus after step 1 above,
and when Jesus is lifted, their (all men's) sins are forgiven and they are saved.

This talks about step 2 above.

You will realize the difference, if you scrutinize the context of each chapter.

[Taffy]

I just ran across these two scriptures and noticed a significant message behind them!

John 6:44 (Amplified Bible)

44No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.

and

John 12:32 (Amplified Bible)

32And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself.

So, in John 6:44 we have Jesus saying that all those that the Father draws to Him will be raised from the dead on the last day, and in John 12:32 we have Christ saying that he will draw ALL men to him! Sounds like a reasonable case for universal salvation to me!  :bigGrin:

The best part is that the Greek word for "draw" literally means "to drag". It's the same word that is used in conjunction with fishermen bringing in their nets.

Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

The church created from HIS side ,maybe seen in Genesis... :icon_flower:, spirit and soul

[70sevens]

We have to read the Scriptures with pondering,

1. Chewing the Cud

[Lev11:3]
You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.

This is the commandment to Israelites, and at the same time spiritually to Christians of this age.
Then what we are required to eat the animal that chews the cud.
What is the animal that chews the cud?
Here animal signifies the food/ teaching.
"That chew the cud" signifies the reading the Scriptures (spiritual food) thoughtfully
chewing over and over in order to get hidden meanings.

Also, we have to learn from the men who chewing the cud,
and we ourselves also have to read the Scriptures as such.

The swine that does not chew the cud and as such are not allowed eating in the Bible.
Spiritually this means that we, the Christians, should not take the Bible teachings
that were formed by shallow reading. 
So, we should not eat the swine, not because of Swine Flu,
but because of caring for own spiritual growth.

2. All men

[Rom 5: 19]
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

When we read this verse without chewing the meaning,
we will get very simple meaning as follows : 
"Due to Adam all men were made sinners, due to Jesus all men will be made righteous."
Scriptures say, we should not take this kind of un-chewed teachings.

All are sinners: (Past)
Then, as for each of us, when were we made sinners?
At the time of birth, as the Scriptures says born sinners.
What about the men who are not yet born?
Are they sinners? NO.
They will become sinners only when they are individually born in this world.
Therefore, Paul is mentioning here those who are already born.
Yes, here all men mean every human being who has ever existed.

All will be saved : (Future)
Then when, at which point in time of our life, each of us shall be made righteous?
When we meet Jesus individually and saved.
What about the men who have not yet met Jesus?
Are they saved? NO.
They will be saved only when they individually meet Jesus in this world.
All men will be saved who meet Jesus, the Saviour.