Just believing God, God considers you righteous

[sheila]

Ezekiel 16  On the day you were born,your cord was not cut,nor were you washed with water to make you clean

  nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity nor had compassion

enough to do any of these things for you. Rather,on the day you were born you were thrown out into

the open field,for on the day you were born you were despised[sinner]

  Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood. And as you lay there in your blood....

   I SAID TO YOU,"LIVE!"

[rosered]

Thank you so much Rose for your faithfulness in addressing for Aerex what is truly important.  :HeartThrob: You have such an exceptionally tender heart toward others.

Aerex, as Rose said, you are certainly not alone. I share much in common with you, even to the point of having tantrums of hate toward my Father and being suicidal, which has really affected my wife and young son.

I speak to you as one who is still currently in a furious struggle with all of this. I honestly believe that the fact that you have a struggle yourself shows me without doubt that there is life out of the death you are experiencing. You are speaking life, and I am speaking life, even though it seems far from it.

Think about it, does a person who is truly dead struggle to move? Your Father is not reacting to you. He is the very cause of how he is choosing to form his Son in you, and you are making choices in that process. Even in those times we deny him, he remains faithful. We are woven into the fabric of his very being in the person and body of Yeshua. How can he deny himself?

Certainly no easy answers, and not the answer we both want, which is "God, just change me right now so I don't have to struggle with my crap!" Oh, how often I have yelled that in his face. I think we all will be so amazed when we finally see on the other side of this physicality just how intimate he was with us in our darkest moments.

Ronen

So  wonderfully true   Ronen !  :HeartThrob:

  I can certainly relate   brother !   

  Being forgiven  much and often just makes us love and cling to Him even more   closely ..  I   say   help , Lord help I am in trouble again ,  and look for Him !!
He is our Light in our darkest  moments and it took me a   long while to finally  run to Him instead of away from  him   in those   violent struggles  and experiences  , truly our human element is  so  weak  , but He is strong in the Spirit upon us   

and when your faith  is tested  and  you fail  the test ,  but see where he was faithful   to you , the   humbled trust begins to build  within  , knowing you are not alone  and His peace  gives you some rest   and hope lives !
Our Victory is in Christ , He  does  conquer    the powers and principalities   rising  up   within us   all 

      We learn though them experiences whom to   put all our  trust  in , it  is  Him  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Ezekiel 16  On the day you were born,your cord was not cut,nor were you washed with water to make you clean

  nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. No one looked on you with pity nor had compassion

enough to do any of these things for you. Rather,on the day you were born you were thrown out into

the open field,for on the day you were born you were despised[sinner]

  Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood. And as you lay there in your blood....

   I SAID TO YOU,"LIVE!"

Thank you sis , when reading this I thought of Hebrews    12  when Paul says    you have not fought hard enough to   the   shedding of blood against sin !!


4You have not yet resisted   to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;...

He lets us get so  sick of the fight against evil doing  and the misery it causes    upon ourselves and others suffer from it  as well

     Than does the deliverance come  , our HELP  in the hour of need   we call upon the name of the Lord for our help from  striving against sin ..

  So many times  and struggles ,  there have been times when I thought  , where in the world did that come from ???   

I did not know that was hidden in my heart  :sigh:   But His Light exposes   all the darkness  and for this i am  thankful  , humbled  ,  but thankful  to Him for His saving grace     :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

True,Rose.   Everytime I read it,it makes me cry.........it makes me think of us all born in Adam;sinners and

dying.[kicking about in our blood]

...and His great Love and compassion shown to us...and Him wanting us to not only live here a short

  while..but with Him eternally!

   the washing with water/rubbing with salt/covering with cloths etc..I see in the spirit as the spiritual healing

  things He does for us that we may LIVE!!ETERNALLY....that we have LIFE more abundantly in this age

  and the eternal immortality in the next!   

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:    :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

If anyone thinks that I was comparing Ephesians 2 to James 2 when I said that Paul was talking about justification apart from the Law and James was not, show me where. I was comparing ROMANS 4 to JAMES 2 and how they don't contradict.

ROMANS 4 was talking about justification apart from the Law.

JAMES 2 is not talking about justification BY the Law, therefore they don't contradict.

My statement is as simple as that.

I have never spoken about Romans 4.

Only Eph 2 and James 2. What you are missing(as I see it) is a difference of spiritual understanding that you and I will not resolve with words.

Its a matter of perception, and its all been said.

[Seth]

If anyone thinks that I was comparing Ephesians 2 to James 2 when I said that Paul was talking about justification apart from the Law and James was not, show me where. I was comparing ROMANS 4 to JAMES 2 and how they don't contradict.

ROMANS 4 was talking about justification apart from the Law.

JAMES 2 is not talking about justification BY the Law, therefore they don't contradict.

My statement is as simple as that.

I have never spoken about Romans 4.

Only Eph 2 and James 2. What you are missing(as I see it) is a difference of spiritual understanding that you and I will not resolve with words.

Its a matter of perception, and its all been said.

John I think you have gotten so confused at this point, it's probably impossible unwind the ball of twine at this point. Thanks for the conversation anyway.  :dontknow:

[eaglesway]

I am not the slightest bit confused. But you are welcome :o)

[Seth]

If you are saying that I said Ephesians 2 is an extension of Romans 4 and teaches salvation from works of the Law, but you cannot find where I said that, then yes confusion has set in. It may be my fault, maybe the words I use, I don't know. I still ask you to find where I said, and if you can't then it shows that you were not understanding me.

My view of salvation is all about the Spirit, there's no lack of spiritual attribution to salvation on my part whatsoever. I'd demonstrate that, but I am not sure if you would actually read it.

[Seth]

  Dear Seth I do not believe anyone wants to be evil on purpose .

      I believe after we come to Christ we are  in the battle of our lives  , between  to natures
one of heaven and the other of earth      , this is where   many of us stumble and fall and fail   
  I do believe God does  turn one over to the destruction of the flesh  nature   for in the DAY OF THE LORD they shall be saved   

    How   ever long it takes or often   , until one is so sin sick and lost they have nothing  to give  up , but surrender  ,  than can God actually  have  use   for them   

The animal nature   just as it started    has an end   ..
  We see this in the natural on a daily basis     
  beast natures    for the most part are fear driven or     fierce   and forced  upon  the weaker  natured

I have seen literal attacks     come from  temperamental      dogs  , they have no control over it ,  they are   actually driven by it   
  I see the evil natured   no different    , they  either get old or  sick or literally die   fighting      before that end comes .

   For me this is the sickness unto death that we are told not to pray for  that 

and it might be better if they did , there is torment in fear  driven beasts  and the carnal mind is a death sentence

I may be off  in thinking   but after  reading   above    on your post     ,,,   I want evil to end    , I can hardly wait till  we never ever have to deal with it again !!!

   This is my joy to know that it will end   for everyone   who suffers with it or because of it       :HeartThrob:

Amen Rose. I agree, nobody wants this. Creation is in the throws of birth pains. Groaning to be set free. Salvation for all is an iron clad inevitably.  :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Seth, I have read every one of your posts thoroughly. I disagreed with your emphasis. I still do. As far as spiritual attribution, I was simply saying that you and I have a spiritual disagreement here that will not be resolved with words. if you cant let it go, then we should just continue in PM.

[Seth]

I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I just don't like having things I didn't say attributed to me then asking where I said it and getting nothing. That's all.

[eaglesway]

Perhaps you can cllarify for me what you mean by "Nobody knows who they are". That statement is at the core of where we disagree.

[Dandelion]

When we believe we are saved by GRACE, through FAITH, then the arrow points DOWN. God is the one who is continually sending his GRACE to us, which gives us our ability to do GOOD WORKS. He is our 'lifeline',our source, our strength, to do Good Works. Not ourselves. In a nutshell, He is the vine, we are the branches....... without Him, we can do NOTHING.

Hi Dandelion,

What I believe is that it's not us who are able to do good works, even if we have that realization, but that it's God who does the works through us. That's why there is no boasting in ourselves.

As I said in previous posts, Grace chastens us to abandon ungodliness (Titus 2:11). And Hebrews talks about how when God chastens us, we experience the peaceable fruit of righteousness thereby. It's all of God not of us.

The end goal, I believe, of faith is as Peter put it in 2 Peter 2, to "escape the pollution of the world." The way he speaks about it reveals that salvation/healing/deliverance is an dis-entanglement from pollution. That's what works have to do with salvation, becoming disentangled, and not returning.

That word "escape" reminds me of "delivered" or "saved."

We don't escape drowning just by believing the life vest is there, we must also put it on and not take it back off.

In the same way, we don't escape the pollution of the world by only believing Jesus exists, but ALSO by receiving the Spirit and walking by the Spirit.

Hi Seth. Yes, faith is just the beginning.

The faith of a mustard seed, will begin a transformation. Unless we start to say NO, there will be no stopping God. His grace will pour out on us and make us new.

More and more of Him in us, less of the 'old man', who used to be ourselves.

As a teacher, I picture a sand table, being emptied of the sand, and then it can be filled with water, instead. We 'pull the plug' on our old lives and allow God to fill us with Himself.

Isaiah 40:  ...30Though youths grow weary and tired, And vigorous young men stumble badly, 31Yet those who wait for the LORD Will gain new strength; They will mount up with wings like eagles, They will run and not get tired, They will walk and not become weary.

Galatians 2: 19"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

[Seth]

Perhaps you can cllarify for me what you mean by "Nobody knows who they are". That statement is at the core of where we disagree.

I don't think so John. I don't appreciate how you have been to me late in this conversation and I don't think anything fruitful will come of it.

[Seth]

When we believe we are saved by GRACE, through FAITH, then the arrow points DOWN. God is the one who is continually sending his GRACE to us, which gives us our ability to do GOOD WORKS. He is our 'lifeline',our source, our strength, to do Good Works. Not ourselves. In a nutshell, He is the vine, we are the branches....... without Him, we can do NOTHING.

Hi Dandelion,

What I believe is that it's not us who are able to do good works, even if we have that realization, but that it's God who does the works through us. That's why there is no boasting in ourselves.

As I said in previous posts, Grace chastens us to abandon ungodliness (Titus 2:11). And Hebrews talks about how when God chastens us, we experience the peaceable fruit of righteousness thereby. It's all of God not of us.

The end goal, I believe, of faith is as Peter put it in 2 Peter 2, to "escape the pollution of the world." The way he speaks about it reveals that salvation/healing/deliverance is an dis-entanglement from pollution. That's what works have to do with salvation, becoming disentangled, and not returning.

That word "escape" reminds me of "delivered" or "saved."

We don't escape drowning just by believing the life vest is there, we must also put it on and not take it back off.

In the same way, we don't escape the pollution of the world by only believing Jesus exists, but ALSO by receiving the Spirit and walking by the Spirit.

Hi Seth. Yes, faith is just the beginning.

The faith of a mustard seed, will begin a transformation. Unless we start to say NO, there will be no stopping God. His grace will pour out on us and make us new.

More and more of Him in us, less of the 'old man', who used to be ourselves.

As a teacher, I picture a sand table, being emptied of the sand, and then it can be filled with water, instead. We 'pull the plug' on our old lives and allow God to fill us with Himself.

Isaiah 40:  ...30Though youths grow weary and tired, And vigorous young men stumble badly, 31Yet those who wait for the LORD Will gain new strength; They will mount up with wings like eagles, They will run and not get tired, They will walk and not become weary.

Galatians 2: 19"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Amen  :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Perhaps you can cllarify for me what you mean by "Nobody knows who they are". That statement is at the core of where we disagree.

I don't think so John. I don't appreciate how you have been to me late in this conversation and I don't think anything fruitful will come of it.

Of course.