According to
Matthew 26:27-29 (Young's Literal Translation)
27and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;
29and I say to you, that I may not drink henceforth on this produce of the vine, till that day when I may drink it with you new in the reign of my Father.'
and
Colossians 1:13-15 (Young's Literal Translation)
13who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love,
14in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
If God at times, doesn't forgive us, but rather, "spanks" us or chastises us, what was the point of forgiving us our sins?? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever in my mind. Besides, Christ forgave before the cross, so it doesn't seem he needed the cross to forgive us.
Also, if God wasn't holding our sins against us, that is, from my understanding, forgiving us for our sins before dying on the cross, and yet dying on the cross to remove our sins, what's the point of dying on the cross to "forgive" our sins? It seems kind of redundant! It's not like he was holding our sins against us before he died, otherwise he wouldn't have died for us in the first place. I can understand dying on the cross to REMOVE our sins, but to forgive our sins??
"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just a single grain; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."
Great questions. Here are a couple points to consider.
1) Forgiveness and removing speak of the same thing. The word forgive in Hebrew is Nasah, which carries the word picture of lifting something off of something; in other words, removing it. Sin, in being forgiven, was removed by Christ.
2) What is the one and only penalty spoken of in scripture for sin? Death. Before the cross, such death held man, never letting him go. Now through Christ's sacrifice, such death has been conquered, so it no longer holds us. Death has truly been defeated. However, we are not saved from death, as though we should never die, but rather we are saved out of it, and through it, for we must are to be conformed to the death of our Lord, sharing in his sufferings.
Discipline, on the other hand, has nothing to do with God suddenly holding our sins against us. Discipline is solely for the purpose training, teaching, and instructing us in the way that produces righteous fruit. For God to hold our sins against us would be for him to once again allow death to close it's gates on us when we die, for us to be locked with no hope of escape. For his church though, those gates do not prevail any longer against us.
Ron
Quote from: gregoryfl on October 07, 2009, 03:34:46 PM
Great questions. Here are a couple points to consider.
1) Forgiveness and removing speak of the same thing. The word forgive in Hebrew is Nasah, which carries the word picture of lifting something off of something; in other words, removing it. Sin, in being forgiven, was removed by Christ.
2) What is the one and only penalty spoken of in scripture for sin? Death. Before the cross, such death held man, never letting him go. Now through Christ's sacrifice, such death has been conquered, so it no longer holds us. Death has truly been defeated. However, we are not saved from death, as though we should never die, but rather we are saved out of it, and through it, for we must are to be conformed to the death of our Lord, sharing in his sufferings.
Discipline, on the other hand, has nothing to do with God suddenly holding our sins against us. Discipline is solely for the purpose training, teaching, and instructing us in the way that produces righteous fruit. For God to hold our sins against us would be for him to once again allow death to close it's gates on us when we die, for us to be locked with no hope of escape. For his church though, those gates do not prevail any longer against us.
Ron
So, to forgive someone then, means to lift up and take away their sin? That would make sense. :thumbsup: