The Best Rebuttal Against Hell

[Jerm]

Any medical people will probably agree with me on this.  I think one of the best rebuttals against Hell is the Burn Unit at any hospital.  My best friend is surgical tech who this past summer had to go through a three month training/certification program that included three days working in the Burn Unit.  Thankfully, her schedule was altered and she didn't actually have to go, but she did hear enough stories to give any one nightmares.  I have never personally been to the burn unit of a hospital, but from what I have been told, it is the most horrible place to be in a hospital.  The physical pain of the people being treated is beyond imagination and sadly, it is horrible for those not being treated as well, since they have to watch the pain that the burn victim is undergoing.  Kind of similar to how the saints will be able to watch the pain of those in Hell from Heaven.  My friend told me of a few students who dropped out of the entire program after one day in the burn unit, simply so they wouldn't have to go back again.  I know this is mostly an emotional argument, but still, I cannot for the life of me fathom anyone who could say that God could subject 95% of His creation to torment far worse than that FOREVER and still be a loving and just God. 

[sven]

the Tanakh says, it never came in God´s mind:

Jeremiah 7,30

For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

the valley of Hinnom is "hell"

[Seeker]

really sven, God is saying he doesn't want to think of his people in hell???  i'm not sure i'm convinced there is no hell, but this is a good argument that it doesn't exist.

[firstborn888]

Here in San Antonio we have one of the top burn units in the world. Right after coming to Christ in '77 a friend of mine was burned in a kitchen grease fire and I (fearlessly) went to visit him. While there I met a young man who had been in recovery for some time after being burned over most of his body. He had trouble speaking but explained to me that he had been in a pit when a gas can leaked and caught fire, engulfing him in flames. I began talking to him about Jesus and resurrection and 'new bodies'. He reached out his fingerless hand and I held it as he wept and he just said "tell me more - tell about this new body" and whenever I'd stop he would just say "tell me again, I want to know more".

Right in the middle of this a tricycle's front tire rode right up to my foot. I turned and looked up to see a 2 or 3 year oldish looking kid with virtually no face (no nose or ears or lips) and of course my first reaction was horror. As I just stared into the child's slits for eyes a huge grin broke out across the child's creased features. I mean a big toothy grin, it was possibly the most stunning image I have ever witnessed.   

I instantly realized that the child had no concept of how he/she appeared to others and could really care less. The child had (obviously) been through a really bad experience and the worst was passed and he/she was thrilled to be riding around on a tricycle - just having a great time. For sure the most beautiful smile I've ever seen as the joy somehow radiated through the mask of scars.

I prayed with the original young man and he finally reluctantly retracted his 'hand' as visiting hours were over. My friend whom I was there to see was in the next bed listening to the whole thing (he had third degree burns but only on one arm).

Anyway, I know this isn't really the discussion but I thought I'd share my burn ward experience.

Our faith is tried by fire and our character tested by fiery trials but no, God isn't in the business of roasting humans. Anyone who thinks He is does not really know His nature even though they may have experienced His love in some limited way. 

[Jerm]

Our faith is tried by fire and our character tested by fiery trials but no, God isn't in the business of roasting humans. Anyone who thinks He is does not really know His nature even though they may have experienced His love in some limited way. 

Well said firstborn888  :thumbsup:

[MacPherson]

I've thought the same thing, Jerm. 

[Shadow]

Why would Paul have said?

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my
brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh " Romans 9:3

Why would Moses have said?

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin––; and if not, blot me, I pray
thee, out of thy book which thou hast written Exodus 32.32

Surely ET couldn't have been on either of their minds when they wrote this, possibly one of these 2 instead

Worst case scenario - eventual non-existence (annihilation)
Best case scenario - Eventual restoration of all (Universal restoration)

[Tony N]

Any medical people will probably agree with me on this.  I think one of the best rebuttals against Hell is the Burn Unit at any hospital.  My best friend is surgical tech who this past summer had to go through a three month training/certification program that included three days working in the Burn Unit.  Thankfully, her schedule was altered and she didn't actually have to go, but she did hear enough stories to give any one nightmares.  I have never personally been to the burn unit of a hospital, but from what I have been told, it is the most horrible place to be in a hospital.  The physical pain of the people being treated is beyond imagination and sadly, it is horrible for those not being treated as well, since they have to watch the pain that the burn victim is undergoing.  Kind of similar to how the saints will be able to watch the pain of those in Hell from Heaven.  My friend told me of a few students who dropped out of the entire program after one day in the burn unit, simply so they wouldn't have to go back again.  I know this is mostly an emotional argument, but still, I cannot for the life of me fathom anyone who could say that God could subject 95% of His creation to torment far worse than that FOREVER and still be a loving and just God. 

I wonder why them thar worms never git tormented? Ya think they gots asbestus suits for them worms?

[peacemaker]

Our faith is tried by fire and our character tested by fiery trials but no, God isn't in the business of roasting humans. Anyone who thinks He is does not really know His nature even though they may have experienced His love in some limited way. 

Well said firstborn888  :thumbsup:

Two thumbs up :2thumbs:


I wonder why them thar worms never git tormented? Ya think they gots asbestus suits for them worms?
Medium, or large! :whistleshake:

peacemaker

[Paul Hazelwood]

Surely ET couldn't have been on either of their minds when they wrote this, possibly one of these 2 instead

Possibly not

Here is an e-mail from a website in reply to the word Olam.

Shalom Paul:

The Hebrew word olam means "a time that is far off." It is also used for space in the same sense, a place that is far off (such as in beyond the horizon). It means a space or time that goes beyond their perceptions. I do not like everlasting or eternal as these are abstract Greek terms that are not understood by the Ancient Hebrews.

Jeff & Denise Benner
Ancient Hebrew Research Center
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org

[Mark Christopher]

/quote]

I put worm + scarlet in my search engine and found all sorts of interesting stuff. This looks like a good one! http://www.christianworldchurch.co.uk/MSchool6.htm

[Taffy]

/quote]

I put worm + scarlet in my search engine and found all sorts of interesting stuff. This looks like a good one! http://www.christianworldchurch.co.uk/MSchool6.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3191.0 :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

God likes worms. He knows that humans build strong worms 10 ways like Wonder Bread.

He has His own worm farm. This is so when we git to that thar fish shack up in Heaven and git a place by the lake of fire we kan go putten them thar asbestos worms on our hooks and go fishin for humans in the lake. Yea, they'll really go after them juicy worms cause they'll be sooooo thirsty. This puts a whole new twist on being "fishers of men." I can't want to hook some of my ole relatives and family members. Just before I pull 'em to shore I snip the line and back they go! Eternity will be so much fun!

[Mark Christopher]

God likes worms. He knows that humans build strong worms 10 ways like Wonder Bread.

I started a new thread with this, it's so good.
But I originally dredged it up for this thread.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

This will tell you all about what "their worm dieth not"means!
In ways that you couldn't possibly believe is true!

[Tony N]

My goodness Mark,
I am soooooo glad I was delivered from that horrid mess.

Those people are tormented. It is just too bad they are not delivered from their bondage Satan has put them in.

Let's pray for them and try to contact them with the truth.

Tony

[Mark Christopher]

My goodness Mark,
I am soooooo glad I was delivered from that horrid mess.

Those people are tormented. It is just too bad they are not delivered from their bondage Satan has put them in.

Let's pray for them and try to contact them with the truth.

Tony

The situation as a whole is really no laughing matter.
But that website is so over the top and ridiculous, it looks more like a Universalist lampoon to me.

[NarrowGate]

Not a good argument against the doctrine of ET in fact there if therre is no proof from the scripture then you have no argument, but I agree that is very sad.

[Jerm]

Not a good argument against the doctrine of ET in fact there if therre is no proof from the scripture then you have no argument, but I agree that is very sad.

Like I said, this is more of an emotional argument, and I would also say it delves into the area of logic as well.  As far as Scripture is concerned, I see the reconciliation of all everywhere.

[adam]

firborn said:

Our faith is tried by fire and our character tested by fiery trials but no, God isn't in the business of roasting humans. Anyone who thinks He is does not really know His nature even though they may have experienced His love in some limited way. 

I couldnt agree more.  Earthly fire is such a terrible thing. One of the things is does is increase the bodies sensitivity to pain. Spiritual fire isnt like that.   Here are some scriptures relating to God's kind of fire:

Mal 3:2  " ... For He is like a refiners fire..."

Jer 23:29  " ...is not  My Word like fire..."

Rev 1:15   " ... and His eyes were as a flame of fire..."

Matt 3:12   "He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire"

1 Cor 3:13   " ...fire shall try every mans work..."


I understand this to be God using fire to cleanse us of the bad parts of our character, so we are fit and worthy to enjoy our enternity in Heaven and to Glorify God.  I used to understand it to be a process that happens mostly after death, but now thanks to advice I had on this board from Seeker and much Bible studying Im seeing that this work is underway in this life to.

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."