A topic popped up on my facebook feed that was a discussion from a Calvinist/reformed page. I took the opportunity to post some UR info and link to TM. This is a reply I received;
"that makes it sound more like predestination than free will you choose who or what you will serve. Yes, God is in all moments of time and knows all things past, present and future but he did create us with a free will to accept or reject Him as He makes Himself known to all peoples or He would not be a just God and we would be nothing but mindless, soulless robots"
Does this stir up any thoughts for anyone?
FREE WILL
those who believe in Eternal Hell emphasize FREE WILL but Free Will only takes us so far. For example:
"But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is FORMED say to the ONE WHO FORMED IT, Why did you MAKE ME like this? Does not the POTTER have the right to MAKE from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? The potter makes vessels of honor or dishonor.
'for to vanity was the creation MADE SUBJECT NOT OF ITS OWN WILL, but BECAUSE of HIM who DID SUBJECT it in hope,? Did we have a choice to be subjected to vanity by default?
'for GOD did SHUT UP together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness. Did we have a choice to be shut up in disbelief by default?
HE hath BLINDED their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they might not see with the eyes, and understand with the heart, and turn back, and I might heal them; Did they have a choice to be blinded or hardened?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.Did we have a choice to have faith? or was it given?
:iagree:
How I define a soulless robot is: someone who cannot think for themselves, they are TOLD what they should believe and they believe it. and because it has become their foundation, no other person will be able to tear apart and replace that foundation. It takes divine intervention by God, which I fully believe happened to me.
Which reminds me of a quote I love:
Reason is not automatic, those who deny it, cannot be conquered by it.
My :2c:
yeah, it's either "there's free will and He won't make someone accept Him", or, "God predestined the [small percentage] of who He is saving and the rest are going to hell forever".
I was trying to present the "resolution" to that, i.e., some now, the rest later.
Darryl got it right and correct and BIBLICAL. Where did this idea of "free will" come from anyway? :dontknow: It may become another big Question to find an answer to, just as I once asked myself where our ideas of hell came from.
(corrected apparent glitch in Subject line to make sure post is connected correctly in thread - jabcat)
Quote from: jabcat on January 12, 2021, 04:28:35 AM
yeah, it's either "there's free will and He won't make someone accept Him", or, "God predestined the [small percentage] of who He is saving and the rest are going to hell forever".
I was trying to present the "resolution" to that, i.e., some now, the rest later.
thank you ...good post !
Quote from: jugghead on January 12, 2021, 02:38:08 AM
How I define a soulless robot is: someone who cannot think for themselves, they are TOLD what they should believe and they believe it. and because it has become their foundation, no other person will be able to tear apart and replace that foundation. It takes divine intervention by God, which I fully believe happened to me.
Which reminds me of a quote I love:
Reason is not automatic, those who deny it, cannot be conquered by it.
My :2c:
"It takes divine intervention by God, which I fully believe happened to me".....same
Quote from: darryl on January 15, 2021, 05:49:35 AM
Quote from: jabcat on January 12, 2021, 04:28:35 AM
yeah, it's either "there's free will and He won't make someone accept Him", or, "God predestined the [small percentage] of who He is saving and the rest are going to hell forever".
I was trying to present the "resolution" to that, i.e., some now, the rest later.
thank you ...good post !
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Free will: This is the worse doctrine there is. People who believe in free will don't even know what it is, or represents. Sure we have choices but where did the choices come from. We cannot chose one thing that God did not provide. I had someone tell me one time that "God didn't care if they liked a red house". I ask them why was it that they liked a red house? They couldn't answer that. Every path leads back to God who is the author and finisher of all things. Jesus told his disciples, "without me you can do NOTHING. Jesus himself said "of mine own self I CAN DO NOTHING. What does nothing mean? Free will means without restraint, compulsions, freedom of choice. If you have free will God cannot interfere in anything. Sounds scary doesn't it?
Just the way I see it.
CHB
Quote from: CHB on January 15, 2021, 09:10:34 PM
Free will: This is the worse doctrine there is. People who believe in free will don't even know what it is, or represents. Sure we have choices but where did the choices come from. We cannot chose one thing that God did not provide. I had someone tell me one time that "God didn't care if they liked a red house". I ask them why was it that they liked a red house? They couldn't answer that. Every path leads back to God who is the author and finisher of all things. Jesus told his disciples, "without me you can do NOTHING. Jesus himself said "of mine own self I CAN DO NOTHING. What does nothing mean? Free will means without restraint, compulsions, freedom of choice. If you have free will God cannot interfere in anything. Sounds scary doesn't it?
Just the way I see it.
CHB
Excellent post, CHB! I'm going to make a leap here - if we really have free will, then that implies a Deist Universe, where God made everything and started it off, observing but not interfering. I see Deism as just another method of putting distance between ourselves and God...but why? Fear, I think.
Quote from: jabcat on January 10, 2021, 05:40:52 AM
A topic popped up on my facebook feed that was a discussion from a Calvinist/reformed page. I took the opportunity to post some UR info and link to TM. This is a reply I received;
"that makes it sound more like predestination than free will you choose who or what you will serve. Yes, God is in all moments of time and knows all things past, present and future but he did create us with a free will to accept or reject Him as He makes Himself known to all peoples or He would not be a just God and we would be nothing but mindless, soulless robots"
Does this stir up any thoughts for anyone?
I think of that as an extreme.. or actually both extremes. Of, we?re robots and make no choices, or it?s somehow unavoidable that our choices, and ability to make choices, is what totally rules.
I don?t think either one of those are logical!
Surely God put the visible option of straying/imperfection and of knowing both good and evil in the garden for a reason.
Just how do you create truly able to think snd reason beings,
and keep paradise/perfection intact?
The
whole drama of good and evil is that unavoidable journey and lesson.