So How Would You Respond To This Article?

[JamesH]

http://parresiazomai.blogspot.com/2017/12/it-is-wrong-to-define-aionios-based-on.html

The author of the article is a CI(conditional immortality)believer aka annihilation.

[Ross]

Quote"  The fact that an adjective comes from a noun certainly does not prove it will mean eternal.
            But the above example shows this is a possibility."

This is a possibility infers doubt/options/variations. Refutes his opinion himself with this statement.

Usage of the phrase "most likely" shows the interpretation aspect- the whole problem with many claiming to know the truth, yet far from the truth.

Christ came to save all that was lost. He /was/is 100 percent successful.
The working through ages, and the ages to come is plural- and funnily enough will end up being eternal when getting to the last age when death is finally done away with.
Such disputes attempt to distract us from Christ doing what He came to do.
Paul refers to Isaiah when quoting the pot telling the potter why it was made.
Romans 9 through 11 talk about the magnitude of the system and the specific objectives. Time is not talked about through this theme, just the purpose.

Amazing how we can justify our understanding and in so doing reckon we "know" God.
People other than the first fruit DO NOT grasp the process- NOT their time yet. Know about Christ, but not yet "in Christ" .
BUT CHRIST WILL teach them in the ages to come.

[rosered]

 
  A short answer  , Only God is eternal .


Till God be all in all


1 Cor 15 ...27For "God has put everything under His feet."

Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.


28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him,

so that God may be all in all.

[WhiteWings]

I've learned the following about word studies and Bible studies in general.
When you kick out doctrine many studies start out with several possibilities/meanings. Let's say 4 on average.
Deep digging can lower that number. Sometimes to 1 but often I got stuck at 2 possibilities. No matter how hard I kept hammering on the topic I got stuck at 2. Just like the OP.

What showed beneficial to me is just quit that study when you are stuck.
Just pick a fresh new topic to study. Then you often get stuck too.
So after countless hours I had several studies I was unable to complete.

The beauty of that is, at least for me it was, that totally unrelated studies can solve other studies. Sometimes by finding that one key verse, but more often by what I'll will describe by a totally fictitious example
A study on Jesus crucifixion day shows Jesus died on a Wednesday or Friday.
A study on Jonah shows that Jonah got eaten by the fish on Friday or Monday.
If I believe the Jonah story is about Jesus' death I can conclude Jesus died on Friday because the two studies have that day in common.

When you have/had a whole drawer full of studies that couldn't be completed they often suddenly start to solve each other in the way described above.
If the amount of studies grows that web of solutions gets bigger and stronger. It's also self purging. If you allowed to be purged.
For example my ideas about Jesus day of death got severely challenged, aka debunked, by a totally unrelated study.
Then the true colors of a person show. Go with the new evidence or stick to doctrine.

So, what does all of that has to do with the OP?
IMO, if an author of whatever doctrine has a good point write it down. No matter how you hate that doctrine. Yes, it happened several times that sickening Calvinist articles helped me in my UR studies...

[rosered]

Quote"  The fact that an adjective comes from a noun certainly does not prove it will mean eternal.
            But the above example shows this is a possibility."

This is a possibility infers doubt/options/variations. Refutes his opinion himself with this statement.

That is a good observation  Ross  , and also  you can sense  his shaky ground  scenarios .   :iagree:


 
I agree   Totally with White Wings ,    :iagree:

There is  always  a least two   ways to see anything  and usually a lot more than that   when you dig in deep and the deeper you go there   ,more  is usually given  , or taken away from your  original thoughts  , especially the Word of God  .

Most barely scratch the surface  in word studies .

We have the wisdom of mankind     and it is a type of glory to the sons of men  in the earth   ,as knowledge increases,  God is so good to those whom seek Him  and endure to the end .

  and this is why  we are  to bless those   whom  are trying to do what is right in Gods sight   ,

I find most  of the time we all are trying to  do the right thing  and being careful how we handle the Word of Life , and do lean on our own understanding  at first .  This instills a fear   of God  in His Word  and awe  , but it is only  a start . pray , seek and knock , ask God for help  to understand  His thoughts   always  be thankful to Him for every  bite  and tasting His goodness in the tree of Life to stay alive .

I am sure  that when this man whom wrote the article   has finished his course  he will have changed his mind many times  over .
  I recall  , not  believing  in the UR  message  either  at  first  and tried very hard to   keep an open mind , but it sounded to good to be true .

Can this be  possible with God ?.   I know it says with man nothing is possible , but with God all things are possible .


Have I limited  the true and Living  God and brought Him down to my little mind to worship  this image  of Him  , and a sad one at that  !!    A God that would burn  his creation in all eternity  , except    a very small number     that was  blessed enough  to even hear about God  at all  while  in the world  living as a human being   that has no clue of God  whatsoever  with maybe  5%   faith    but thought I did know  and was a foolish  babe  and not knowing anything about God :sigh:

  The Bible is very confusing at first  , like a puzzle  with many pieces  that we try to fit into a BIG PICTURE and takes a  lot of  work  to just  to  get an idea  , that looking though a glass / mirror darkly is a fact ....

No one sees God and lives ,,, we have to go though Jesus Christ  to see the Father

God in His infinite wisdom has a plan  that is  sure , and perfect   and finally  can trust in Him 100%

and the Wisdom of God  is in Jesus Christ   the Word of God made flesh  , it is not the same flesh and blood we all have  been born in  , that is the corruption   that only inherits   death  and though the law  of Moses   being the ministration  of death  , we  die daily  so the Christ in you can and does rise up in the true Glory of God and finish the works    he started  by faith in God  , we believe also in Him  , He is the WORD that judges us all ..

WE ARE  SO FOOLISH TO JUDGE anything before   the time , the Lord comes   and puts the LIGHT  of understanding in  IT ..

  We do  speak of JESUS CHRIST and Him  crucified  bringing in the new covenant  by the Spirit of LIFE   poured out upon all flesh
   There is no trickery    here to  boast in anything but the Lord  and His power over   the works  of  the devil  , holding many  in death  ..   Jesus Christ  is all power over death   and has annulled the covenant of death   by His own blood 

  Isaiah 28 ...17"I will make justice the measuring line And righteousness the level;

Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies And the waters will overflow the secret place.

18"Your covenant with death will be canceled, And your pact with Sheol will not stand;

When the overwhelming scourge passes through, Then you become its trampling place.


19"As often as it passes through, it will seize you;


For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night,

And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."...

  This is us   people  , I DO   recall   not understanding  what is happening  when Babylon  was falling within   the walls of destruction  and Jesus taking  our thoughts captive  to Himself .


It is a fear  and dread  just to try and understand   what is happening , and here is the clincher   ,  GOD is no respecter of persons   each will come to   the LORD JESUS CHRIST   in their own order  , maybe in their own day of literal death  ,

but they will bow the knee  to the Lord Jesus Christ when they see Him face to face and all knowledge  of God  will cease    ,

because than will they KNOW   THAT LOVE WAS ALWAYS  GODS  MOTIVE ... 

GOD IS LOVE  and all His enemies  have been covered by the  blood of the LAMB   from the beginning and foundation of the world    .
Love covers and multitude of sin /errors    we are to be like Him and pray for our  enemies  when you begin to do  as  God says   things change  within you and   the greater works of Gods  Spirit joined with Christ Spirit  as the HOLY SPIRIT  teaches us  all things  .


Jesus come for us to  have an abundant life now  , He asked  those whom were willing   and does now  to this day  to protect and comfort us  and take us under His wings   like a mamma  hen does her babies  when  danger is near  ,

  but many are not willing   to do that  ,  they may have to  suffer many things   and many times over and over  before they learn what the righteousness of   Jesus Christ means  in the earth   , just as the  above scripture validates   as Truth ,  Wisdom is justified of her children    .

We are just like little greenies , tender and easily trampled   upon , so fragile  and easily hurt  and wounded ,  but in our utter weakness and finally understanding that  condition  to fail ,  truly Jesus Christ is our strength  to endure to the end ..

Many will find out when they see the Light / Jesus Christ face to face  and GOD /LOVE never fails any of us ever .

Going boldly before the throne of grace  is inevitable    certain to happen; unavoidable  just as we once were  cowardly and unbelieving  and run to hide from God because of sin and error  as in Adam / mankind  experiencing  all matter of death and corruption    and took the broad path  in destruction  till Jesus comes to save us ,But in Christ all will be made alive , because salvation is of God and not of ourselves     , it is the gift of God    and as  iniquity abounds  the grace of God abounds the more   ..

   This is the problem  , in my opinion ,   mankind  some how thinks he saves himself  though obedience  to the Lord Jesus Christ , but what they fail to realize   is that without Him you can do nothing / as good as dead   , by faith or by sin /error , YOU ARE DEAD    already !!   . So  it would be by  grace the   Christ in you LIVES  no longer you but Christ ! ...
  It is His Word  and by Himself anyone is saved  at all   ever ...   

  ONLY GOD will be glorified   in that DAY .  We boast in the Lord  Jesus Christ    and not of ourselves ...  His perfect   gift  to the world   because He so loves us all   , not a few or some   but ALL  His creation and will make it all new  as ONLY HE can do , it is His promises    that we believe in  100% when   we ALL  SEE HIM as HE IS .

ps  the flaw

Some have been called out of the world now  , as back than  before the world began  to Know Him , the predestination  of the chosen is or elect  FEW ,   BY GOD HIMSELF  was   to KEEP THE WORD ALIVE  the posterity    or seed  in the earth  as planting THE TREE OF LIFE  we can be led to ,  as a judgement in the earth  This WORD IS  AN INCORRUPTIBLE TRUTH   ,  that never dies unless we all would be as Sodom and Gomorrah   , but was hidden from mankind's sight   till Jesus come in a literal body prepared for Him  to MAKE THE OPEN SHOWING  AND REVEALING OF CHRIST  IN CREATION  ITSELF .

If anyone would  just read the TRUTH AS GODS WORD [ truth ] CANNOT DIE IT IS ALIVE BECAUSE OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN IT  .But Jesus Christ  come in the form of sinful flesh  , as the son of mankind  , but being the son of GOD    between the two covenants of death and life  and His flesh  has torn the veil   from top to bottom  wide open .

and is the great gulf fixed   ,  the chasm ,  the entry  gate of the sheepfold  , the Door way , the ladder  , heaven opened     
   for all     and they will come  as GOD has   made a way  when there was no way    , as all things are possible with GOD 

But sadly many  still cannot see HIM , but certainly will ..  as GOD LIVES AND SWEARS BY HIS OWN SELF  , Just as Thomas saw Jesus  and believed  GOD , so are those now by faith   that believe GODS PROMISE   and rest in Jesus Christ to Finnish the words /works of God  , they rest  in the 7th DAY OF THE LORD to complete  the works /days of old Psalms 77   and 143 ..

  HEBREWS 6 God's Unchangeable Promise

13When God made His promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, He swore by Himself, 14saying, "I will surely bless you and multiply your descendants."c 15And so Abraham, after waiting patiently, obtained the promise.

16Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and their oath serves as a confirmation to end all argument.

17So when God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of the promise, He guaranteed it with an oath.

18 Thus by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be strongly encouraged.

19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul,

firm and steadfast.

It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,

20where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD AND HIGH PRIEST   both ,  that cannot ever change , ever  and everything will come though Him by Him and for Him .. This TRUTH cannot be changed by anyone or anything ..

It will be a futile  and die hard  :laughing7: pun intended , argument we all will  be waiting to see happening in a twinkling of an eye .,as so  confident   in GOD as Jesus was in His own open death  fulfilling many , many things  on that cross .[PROVERBS 8 ]  Wisdom is justified of her children   , those whom hear His voice will live , and all will hear Him call   as Adam out of their  DEEP SLEEP .  GEN 2 ;21

and  HE IS MAKING  EVERYTHING NEW  TO THE GLORY OF THE FATHER by this great LOVE  OF THE FATHER . 

  Jesus CHRIST IS THE WISDOM OF GOD ,Christ the Power and Wisdom of God  [His glorified body is  the woman /true church withnin him birthing the sons of God to be  revealed  ]   though Him   and by Him
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but it is the power of God to us who are being saved. 19 For it is written,

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and I will set aside the intelligence of the intelligent.

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the debater of this age?

Hasn't God made the world's wisdom foolish?

21 For since, in God's wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of what is preached.

22 For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles.

24 Yet to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God, 25 because God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

Boasting Only in the Lord is wise ..

[darryl]

in the Septuagint, 'aionios' is used hundreds of times to translate the Hebrew word 'olam'......'olam' does not mean 'eternal'...that's easily proved....the NT writers were all devout Jews very familiar with the Septuagint and they use 'aionios' in the same way as in the Septuagint....so, no need to argue semantics etc, case closed.

[marie glen]

I didn't read the whole article.. but as far as I got, I will say this - fish - fishy -- is exactly alike! I believe the saying started out originally as "smells fishy" - but that was a clever try.. I seriously can't think of an adjective that doesn't share its meaning with the noun of it.. But, I'm not always that quick of a thinker!

For a long while in my walk following the Lord, I didn't read any sort of etra biblical writings, just the bible, and I think that can help a great deal.. once familiar with the bible, it's easier to spot false doctrine.. (Once the two or three errors in translation are known about and thoroughly researched.

After a while of reading, it seems obvious to me that the translators (and now believers habitually) assume 'forever'.. often in verses where there is no time word in it at all, but there it is in the translated verse! So.. to me, that's just crazy talk!

There's a lot of UR articles and books, both on this site and other where on the web.. An awesom day we're living in as far as that goes! We now have in depth study tools at our fingertips. I find a lot of answers to verses which seem confusing, in the interlinear.. if still not clear, I will then read a whole bunch of commentary on the verse(s).. Usually the interlinear answers any lingering doubt, but even there, translators sometimes run with meanings! :faint: But the Spirit guides us into all truth.. As we ask, seek, knock.. and also regularly listen for His insights, nudges.. confirmations.. I have found a lot of UR confirmation in the interlinear word studies. As well as other confirmations of things.. He knows how to communicate with each one of us.


The example sentence noted above - The fact that an adjective comes from the noun for "age" certainly does not prove it will mean "eternal".  But the above example shows that this is a possibility.

Does not compute for me as he's using latin which the scriptures were not written in!

The "ae" of the latin..? as far as I can see proves nothing..

in the Septuagint, 'aionios' is used hundreds of times to translate the Hebrew word 'olam'......'olam' does not mean 'eternal'...that's easily proved....the NT writers were all devout Jews very familiar with the Septuagint and they use 'aionios' in the same way as in the Septuagint....so, no need to argue semantics etc, case closed.

Amen Darryl! It's always (well often?) semantics!! And it's totally logical that it's what Israel would have meant not what the Greeks would mean!

Good answers in these posts brothers and sisters!

[marie glen]

P.S - In another article he says

from his blog -

I used to believe the Bible teaches that the unrighteous will suffer eternal conscious torment.  I now believe the Bible teaches that the unrighteous will be raised to face judgment, experience some limited amount of conscious suffering, and then God will destroy their bodies and souls (Matthew 10:28), they will perish (John 3:16), and they will be burned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6).

brrrr..... so very cold... And imagine so many in that crowd would have never, ever heard the name of Jesus and the Word says "how shall they believe unless they are told?" I believe the wicked being burned is the culmination of this truth proving drama we are in, when "the nations rage".. (letting imperfection and sin runs its course.. like a virus?! And just like the wicked of Israel perished in 70 a.d. I believe the wicked becoming ashes occurs at the end of this current/common era.. Not in an after life.

Yes God will resurrect all.. believers to a resurrection of life and unbelievers (not yet saved) to a resurrection of judgment - "Judgment" greek - krises (spelling?) one of its meanings being decision.. :dontknow: A resurrection of decision.. Now if the decision has already been made, and sentence before trial.. which is how it seems to be usually read - well, where's the "decision"? And it's assumed the decision is referring to God's decision to condemn.. but it doesn't really say that.. just says it's a resurrection of judgment.. Imagine awaking from your grave "still in your sins" and you are in the Presence of the radiant, Holy God.. Judgment? I can only imagine how one is going to feel.

Now if He can raise them to torment them, why not be "able" to raise them to convince them?

And once one does rise.. Are they going to "believe"? Where does it say "no hope after death"? Besides in Dante's inferno? If someone could show me that in God's Word and it stands up to the interlinear (when logical, not run with) and context, and considering all verses on the topic.. then I would believe it!

Judgment 'Day' - surely a rather loNg 'day'.. "How shall they believe unless they are told?"

What did Jesus mean when He said it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah "on judgment day" then for some of the current cities of Israel in His day. And what did He mean when He said the queen of the south would rise in judgment against the pharisees(?) on judgment 'day'? Well, I suppose some might think for less or more torment.. But isn't ceasing to exist 'punishment' enough? [brrr. cold.. empty.. dark... death sins..] Romans 3 "let every man be a liar, untrut.. but God is true, faithful" to and for a few? "As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will live" actually also says "in the same way" - we did nothing to inherit the imperfect/sin character which made us inherit the result, death. And also we did nothing to inherit life. God chooses who shall believe during this life.. and "chose" includes in its meaning "by lot" - a 'lucky' shake of the heavenly dice..

The greek word translated - oh dang, I can't remember, if its punishment, judgment or condemnation.. but the greek is in the sense of remedial and corrective..

I think most folks coming to believe on day of judgemtn will be much the same as it has been for us during this life.. some repent a little harder or harsher - if they
be been a despot.. yes, some gnashing of teeth, I'm sure..

When? did Jesus mean the pharisees would see gentiles come and recline at meal with Abraham, Isaac and Jocob but they would be outside in the outer darkness? Now remember, feast days were lit, and bright with family, camaraderie and with Yhvh.. If you were outside the feast you were outside of the bright lit up feast and celebration/comemoration.. But it does not really say "forever". It is habitually assumed. Strongly held.. a stronghold of the enemy.. my  :2c:
:Peace2: God bless!!

[MHz]

It is too focused on single word definition when the best arguments for universal salvation is found in a few passages. The ones called 'the rest' are the ones in the most danger of being sent to the fiery lake and if the passages show they are alive in the New earth verses then salvation for man is universal. Showing that all the other flesh is alive then to is also possible but the argument is not as strong as it is for men. It has some text and then the reader has to decide how a God of the Living would handle 'things'.

The fate of the ones called 'the rest' is not specified in the text in Re:20. Hebrews:12 is an expansion of what happen at the GWT and that is confirmed as the location for that chapter is Mount Sion which is in the 3rd heaven which is outside of the universe. The chapter is about chastisement and forgiveness rather than chastisement and then even greater punishment for eternity.

The ones killed by the sword in the last verse in Re:19 are the sinners that are seen to hell. (in the grave and awake instead of sleeping) The sword in Isaiah:65 is the same sword and the verses that follow show somebody is killed and they remain alive and are in torment while the 'servants' are in a continuous celebration. The Jerusalem in that chapter is New Jerusalem and the 'servants'live inside that huge city for all time. It is the ones that were being punished that fulfill the building of their houses outside of the walls of the city.

It would be better if I posted the scripture like I usually do but it might be what makes the post a wall of text. I have to stress that it has to be the 1611kjv Bible or the story line falls apart. I use that one as it is based on the original Greek for the NT and the original Hebrew for the OT. All other Bibles are flawed due to the copywrite thing where they have to change the words quite a bit before it can quality is a 'new book'. The RCC went with a Latin Bible as an 'improvement', it wan't, it took the truth away from them. There is usually a thread about which bible is better so I'll stop here on that subject.