Sin is man trying to become like God, trying to become as good and right as He and Holy without blame possesing no shame.
Bad, or destructive behavior is a display that one has sin living in them. Sin isn't a rule someone is trying to live by, sin is one thinking that living by a rule somehow makes them good and right.
It is by these things that men are seperated and love is broken, by the working out of our own futile ideas of what makes me good and why some one is bad.
We are all perfected in Christ, reconcilled to His image and likeness, does this mean everyone knows and understands what Jesus has done, absolutley not... but it will happen!
I am as good and right as God, because of the reconcilling of Jesus, I am in His image and likeness, clothed forever, perfected forever...
Does that mean I don't suffer as a result of the sin that once ruled in me, absolutley not, but there was some good news about Jesus and Isaiah said it, "He has come to heal the broken hearted!"
It is the broken who are trying to make themselves look unbroken, for they are ashamed of their brokeness, and all these rules and efforts to look good and right like God are a pouring out of pain and sorrow of the very broken heart they can't live with.
Sin is disgusting, any person who doesn't understand what Jesus has done for them suffers a horrible, abominable anguish within themselves, Yes sin is disgusting, but can we blame someone for not hearing, no of course not, but we can do something...
We can tell them!!
Nice post, and exactly in line with what Paul was trying to teach the church at Galatia.
Quotesin is one thinking that living by a rule somehow makes them good and right.
Gal 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ;
Good word Dallas.
I appreciate the time you put into your reply. I believe we have addressed this before.
Sin is very broad term; anything that is not of faith is also sin. So thinking that living by a rule somehow makes them good and right would be sin, if being good and right was not by faith in the Son of God.
QuoteBad, or destructive behavior is a display that one has sin living in them. Sin isn't a rule someone is trying to live by, sin is one thinking that living by a rule somehow makes them good and right.
Paul says quite opposite to your quote:
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet"
So the Law is not sin, neither has been living by the Law, sin. There is a synchronisity between Law and sin, and persuing the Law for righteousness. Our filthy rags of righteousness is not sin, but to trust in our filthy rags of righteousness for our righteousness and salvation is sin. So I wonder if this is where there is a misunderstanding. The law is not for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. The law is for lawbreakers. We can know what is right and good by the oberserving the law, but we cannot be declared right and good by oberserving the law.
The human tendency, is to let sin take a hold and justify itself through the use of the law (I should know, I am conscious of this), so the wrong I commit was because someone else committed a wrong against me; therefore I am excused from the wrong I commit. That is sin operating in sin! Which I believe you are trying to tell us is sin, but I believe there is no wrong in identifying that the bad and destructive behavior is also sin. According to Paul, sin is ALSO the bad and destructive behavior that we perform as identified by the law. Sin which comes out from the sin that lives within us as well.
Though we are not judged in accordance to the law in regards of our salvation, and it is by faith we are declared righteous, apart from the law. So in regards to being saved and called righteous, that cannot be done through any law or rule. Yet, to suffer the consequences of sin, should we sin, we are not exempt. I say, hate your brother, you have already committed murder in your heart. You may not suffer from human law which cannot prove you murdered him, but inside you become hard and begin to go from worse to worse. Does God judge your salvation on the basis of your sin? Of course not! If you were perfect, you have no reason to be saved. If you are not hurt, you cannot be healed!
So do we go sin to be hurt, in order that we can be healed? I hope not! Because there is many rewards in remaining healthy. Talk to a man bed-ridden with the flu, and an athlete in the top of his form; which one lives life more abundantly? So just because we have a Savior to save us from our sin, does not excuse us to sin more; because we will be bed-ridden while the athlete runs for the prize and wins!
Romans and Philippians.
Quote from: bhark54 on November 07, 2007, 12:25:11 AM
Nice post, and exactly in line with what Paul was trying to teach the church at Galatia.
Quotesin is one thinking that living by a rule somehow makes them good and right.
Gal 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ;
They were alienating Christ, in order to justify themselves by the Law. They were being influenced by Judiazer's who wanted to bring back the Torah 600 laws, in conjunction with Christianity. So those who are trying to be justified by the law; they were getting circumsized, baptized, washed, kosher, temple tithes, etc. are alienated from Christ because there is nothing you can do to be justified. Pay attention to what was happening in Galatia, and you will see Paul was not telling that following what is right and good is alienating Christ; he is saying going back to Judiasm is alienating Christ because Israel has been cut off!
Paul repeatedly says, we are all going to be judged by our works and deeds, we are called to walk in good works, and those who do not, will be continually displined and pruned in order that this happens. He also says to those who know what is good and do not do it, they are given a spirit of stupor and God will give them their sinful desires and they will be hardened until they are destroyed by their sin! Did God treat the world in accordance to their sin? No. He saved them just as they are. He reconciled them just as they are. Does that mean we can continue in bad behavior, living by fruits of death? No, because if the natural branches were cut off due to unbelief, what chance does the wild branches grafted into the vine have. The law is not sin, nor is obedience to the law sin. If we break the law, we sin but also when we put our trust in the law for our salvation, we also sin.
Ecclesiastes 7:16-19Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself?
Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool— why die before your time?
It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other.
The man who fears God will avoid all extremes .
Craig
QuotePaul repeatedly says, we are all going to be judged by our works and deeds
He says this repeatedly because he is talking about the judgement coming, judged by works and deeds is a direct charge of the old covenant. Isreal under the old covenant was to be judged according to thier works and deeds, but this is not a new covenant idea.
So both of you are right. Paul was repremanding the Judiazers at the same time teaching against sinful attempts through self-righteousness.
This judgement is an old covenant judgement, are you then suggesting we are still under the old covenant and are waiting for the old to be fulfilled so a judgement can happen and we can be judged according to our works, a messiah will come and save some.
I believe that has already happened, the judgement of the old came, and the works and deeds were judged.
And as you said sin is tied up in the law... but as Paul explains in Romans 5, From Adam until Moses death reign, but because there was no law sin was not imputed to any of them. That being said, Death still reigned, Just as now we are under no law and death still reigns, this is not a sin thing as Paul continues that though righteousness life now spreads and reigns.
It's now the righteousness, the good and rightness of God, our transformation on the cross is spreading distributing life, sin has been dealt with and now life is conquering death so as was the promise is being fulfilled, death was put to death.
That is because the Death that reigned, was not because of imputed sin, but because of consequence of Adam's sin. We are not judged by Adam's sin, we suffer the consequences of his sin, which was death. Without access to the Tree of Life, from dust we came, to dust we return. The door was shut.
I do understand what Paul was telling the church at Galatia. I wasn't in the orginal congregation at Galatia but I have surely been in several like it. It has been my experience for over 50 years now that people who seem to focus on the correction and sins of others leave behind only a littered trail of broken hearts, broken families and broken congregations.
The title of Dallas's thread is : "Sick of people blaming others of sin!" It is in that regard I formulated my original brief reply.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
MATT 7
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Of course we are to "do what is right and good". But the instant we think that by doing what is "right and good" we are in some way gaining more of Gods love or favor then someone who isn't doing "right and good, we err. He loves us at our worst and He loves us at our best.
Romans 5
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life
In regards to salvation and righteousness, there is no observance of our sin. As long as we keep thinking our salvation and our righteousness has anything to do with our works, whether good or in sin, we are in sin. However sin still exists and people continue sin and those who continue to sin, do not know God, nor are they of God.
1 John 3:6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Emotional appeals are far from the truth. We make the mistake of thinking living by a set of rules which govern what is good, is actually evil. Realize the evil that comes from following a set of rules, comes from those who think following those set of rules is what qualifies them for righteousness and salvation!
This is serious stuff, it not an issue to be taken lightly.
QuoteIt has been my experience for over 50 years now that people who seem to focus on the correction and sins of others leave behind only a littered trail of broken hearts, broken families and broken congregations.
You have a point, it is quite sad that you had to deal with this. Now how many broken hearts, broken familes and broken congregations are there because of behavioral sin? Many many more than those who have been shown their sin.
Objectively, experiences like these, though valid, have created a flawed conclusion to UR. What doctrine of salvation did you abide by under those 50 years? Was it, Universal Salvation or was it Conditional Salvation? Chances are, it was Conditional Salvation.
If it was Conditional Salvation, the reason they focused on the correction and sins of others, was because
in their minds, it was determent to their salvation. They teach that your salvation was based on your works, even if they say it doesn't because if you kept sinning, or even blaphemied the Holy Spirit, you commmitted the unforgivable sin and not saved!
That correction and focus on the sins of others was intended to bring fear, doubt, and control those families salvation! It twists and twists and twists, until it becomes an issue of self-preservation. They expel the sinner, not for the sinner's salvation (as 1 Corinthiand 5 tells us to do) but for their own salvation because they fear that the presense of a sinner is an obstacle to their own salvation! How putrid the doctrine of conditional salvation is.
Now that one's mind has been renewed, and we recongize that salvation and righteousness are not found by observing the law, do we think the law is evil? It is very straight forward.
The law or obedience to the law is sin. The law is not evil. The law reveals our sin, but is not an obstacle to our salvation or reconciliation. There is also no sin, in judging rightly.
This is how Paul dealt with those who continually sinned.
1 Corinthians 5It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present.
When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?
Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."Craig
I certainly see how we all are righteous because of being reconciled to God by Christ and the work of the cross, but realizing that, to me, makes us all the more accountable for our actions after we come into that knowledge.
For the unbeliever, the big "I" absolutely tries to be God..that way that seems right to man. And, for the believer, the way that seems right is the pride in thinking we can actually make ourselves righteous by what we do and what we won't do.(at least in front of other people...although they/we don't like to admit that)
But, there is sin, just plain sin...not doing what's right. We have to be able to know right from wrong or we would not have been given so many warnings and admonitions to do right. We are told to be careful because we have an adversary that will destroy us if we let down our guard.
We are told if we "judge" ourselves we won't be judged. And, we are instructed to "see" sin in our brothers and sisters in order to help them steer clear of disaster.
Galatians 6:1
[ Doing Good to All ] Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Jas 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I had a conversation with a friend this week about this very thing. Mostly about people being in the ministry while openly confessing what is considered blatant sin. Her position was, "well, where do you draw the line? How many ministers would have to resign if that's the case?"
If we are not to do as the Bible says and reailize "sin" in our brothers, how can we attempt to help them turn around before they are met with judgment?
There is a fine line here for sure. Getting puffed up is easy. Sticking our head in the sand and ignoring what God lays out for us is easy. Sinning is easy and ....did I mention fun??? It all brings us right back down to the fact that we are soooo broken and sooo dependant on God to save us.
just my thoughts...
Sorry folks, the mods did remove two posts and I have edited the tones down as I see both sides of the fence.
With Dallas I agree that "in your face" preaching against sin is nothing more than the beam in the eye ministry and is not out of love.
However, sin still remains an issue but here is what Jesus says about judgement
Luk 6:42 Or how can you say to your brother, Brother, let me pull out the splinter in your eye, when you yourself do not see the beam that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First cast out the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to pull out the splinter that is in your brother's eye.
Then there is the text that sorta justifies the pointing out of sin
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
We know the wages of sin is death, scripture does not contradict. Notice the two bolded words ask and pray. Out of context I know but many read this out of context and use it to justify their beam in the eye approach.
Actually if we see someone sinning, we are to pray and ask and HE will give them life who commit sin not leading to death. Pretty much sums it up that it is for God to judge not us.
Reading on we get the context of this message:
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
Now is this statement true or false. We all say "All fall short of the Glory of God..." yet this clearly says, those born of God does not continue to sin. So either it is true or John was a liar. No that is not it; what is seen literally, is by the carnal eye.
What is born of God? Flesh? Spirit?
Aah you are getting the picture, the Spirit cannot sin. Now we can see all the verses where Paul speaks of the wrestling between the flesh and the Spirit making sense. We can yield to the flesh or we can yield to the Spirit, there is a choice, some call it free-will.
The Spirit may be grieved by the carnal sin but the Spirit is not affected by the sin, He remains faithful and true.
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and all the world lies in evil.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given us an understanding so that we may know Him who is true. And we are in Him that is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and the everlasting life.
1Jn 5:21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols. Amen.
The last verse speaks volumes. We can set up an Idol in our self righteousness can we not? Some people battle with things that others do not battle with.
So what is a sin not unto death seeing the wages of sin IS DEATH? And no it has nothing to do with an unpardonable sin either.
I am not going to answer that apart from this verse.
Rom 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
This is another in your face justification taken out of context.
Mat 18:15 But if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tel
l him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear you, take one or two more with you, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.
Normally this is applied from verse 16 onwards and neglects the key verse 15. You actually need to read the context of this as there is a dual message.
If verse 15 is done in Love and Humility, the result will be a win-win, problem is when one approaches the brother with an eye for an eye mindset, or a beam in the eye mindset, the rest of 16-18 will depend on your standing in the said church. The problem is the one that offends is usually a deacon or elder maybe even the pastor and seldom will be a run-of-the-mill guy or gal, so essentially you are screwed before you even start as they have the "touch not mine anointed.." mindset.
The way I talk about sin is via sowing and reaping.
When we start classifying sin then each one will be able to justify what another may see as sin. Lets take alcohol.
For someone who was an alcoholic and has been delivered of it, any consuming of alcohol is deemed sin.
For another, he may enjoy a glass of wine with his meal or as I do I enjoy a few light alcohol beers and I drink them at home. I can if anyone wants to judge me find at least 3 scriptures that would justify this "sin" however, if I am in a position of leadership, I must not become a stumbling block to others that may battle with alcoholism or other vices or weaknesses.
The point is, when we make up our sin lists and check what we do and don't do then try and compare lists with another, that is where we fall short. Hence, "Judge not lest ye be judged, in the same manner you meet it out the same manner it will be met unto you"
Craig alluded to things in moderation. It is obvious that if you are a Christian and frequent the local brothel, you are breaking and obvious commandment and you have a problem. Talking to such a person will not help unless he volunteers for counselling.
The problem is with the church today, because they have a conditional mindset, all they see is the outward manifestation of sin, they cannot or refuse to see the heart of the person or possibly the other 99% that person does good.
The problem IMO, all have been brought up with a "let me help you fix it" mentality where the easiest thing is just to love unconditionally and leave it to the Lord to sort that person out.
Jas 5:19 Brothers, if anyone among you err from the truth, and if anyone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 know that he who turns back the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things has drawn near. Therefore be of sound mind, and be sensible to prayers.
1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent love to yourselves, for love will cover a multitude of sins.
1Pe 4:9 Be hospitable to one another, without grudging;
1Pe 4:10 each one as he received a gift, ministering it to yourselves as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Pro 10:12 Hatred stirs up fights, but love covers all sins.
Pro 17:9 He who covers a transgression seeks love, but he who repeats a matter separates friends.
Admin Note:
While much of what is shared on this thread by others hold truths, you can get to address/correct what may be perceived as a "wrong" viewpoint without the need to talk to the person. The use of collectives such as we, they, us, them, as opposed to "you" changes the whole flavour of a post.
Dallas and bhark54, not saying it is the case, but if you were hurt or offended by what happened to you, maybe it is time to put the past where it belongs, it may be time to forgive, release and let go. Bitterness is also a sin and it robs you of your rightful glory as a child of God. If I am wrong in my assuption, forgive me.
To all, if we proclaim a God of Unconditional Love that is able to save ALL mankind and we keep slamming ET and the Church, what do they see in us? (moi is guilty too)
Love?
Judgement?
We all too often speak about walking the talk but what do we do? Are we any different to them in our approach?
I leave you with this.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever (ET and others included) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(Jesus is the everlasting life)
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world (neither should anyone else), but so that the world (everyone) might be saved through Him. (saved from what?)
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
Blessings to all
My apologies for my aggressive style of communication in this thread. It was not my intention to be confrontational, in my passion, I came off hot instead of cool. My ideas and beliefs concerning the subject remain the same.
My apologies to Dallas and Bhark54 and those who took offense for how I said it. Thanks for your understanding.
Love you Dallas! I hope we can meet up again soon, miss your contributions. Love you Bhark, you have years of experience I can learn from and I appreciate your comments.
Craig
QuoteIt has been my experience for over 50 years now that people who seem to focus on the correction and sins of others leave behind only a littered trail of broken hearts, broken families and broken congregations.
For the sake of clarity I was never personally hurt or offended in my years of ministry, at least in regard to "spiritual correction". But I have witnessed dozens of cases where the "spiritually mature", focused, attempted to correct and ultimately drove people from the influence of any believing body. In every case the "correcter" justified his or her actions on their interpretation of scripture. They may have even been theologically correct but the end result was that a broken person was even more broken.
We are
all broken (a condition of being human) to some degree, some are
openly broken, some are
secretly broken. Some continue in open sexual immorality and some continue in secret hatred of their brothers. Does that mean I espouse the practice of sin, of course not. People "sin" because they think it fulfills some "need" in their lives. I believe helping them find a genuine connection with the love of God is what will truly fulfill all their needs.
If my brother is failing I could point to his failure (which needs no more illumination) and cast him out on his own or I could walk by his side and help guide him to the healing love of God, supporting him each step of the way. It matters not how many times he stumbles.
For me the bigger question is not how much my brother is sinning but rather am I being obdedient to the Royal Law of loving my neighbor as myself. QuoteThe problem IMO, all have been brought up with a "let me help you fix it" mentality where the easiest thing is just to love unconditionally and leave it to the Lord to sort that person out
.
Well said Seeker
Craig - Apology accepted. I appreciate your passion and knowledge. While our experiences might lead us to different approaches to an issue our brotherhood in Christ will lead us to the same destination.
I agree that I didn't see anything offensive or crude like, I guess I may bee thick skinned. All is good between me and you guys, no worries.
QuoteWe are all broken (a condition of being human) to some degree, some are openly broken, some are secretly broken. Some continue in open sexual immorality and some continue in secret hatred of their brothers. Does that mean I espouse the practice of sin, of course not. People "sin" because they think it fulfills some "need" in their lives. I believe helping them find a genuine connection with the love of God is what will truly fulfill all their needs.
I agree this is a very real description of people walking out sin, when I see someone entranced with some horrible behaviour I don't see someone commiting a sin I see someone who suffers from sin. They don't need a lecture on their bad behaviour, they need to be led to the freedom Christ freed us to, for healing and restitution to the Father of their heart.
Quote from: Dallas on November 08, 2007, 10:18:13 PM
I agree that I didn't see anything offensive or crude like, I guess I may bee thick skinned. All is good between me and you guys, no worries.
(Thanks bro, that is all I need to hear and see...)
QuoteI agree this is a very real description of people walking out sin, when I see someone entranced with some horrible behaviour I don't see someone commiting a sin I see someone who suffers from sin. They don't need a lecture on their bad behaviour, they need to be led to the freedom Christ freed us to, for healing and restitution to the Father of their heart.
Right, that is the difference we call in the work world, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." or "There is only one good critisism, and that is constructive critisism." People are so busy pointing fingers blaming others for sin, they forget that we also must supply the solution and restore them gently. I agree, I am sick of people blaming others of sin...with an adendum, because most of them do not provide the solution for a positive change.
Quote from: Craig on November 07, 2007, 08:44:24 AM
My apologies for my aggressive style of communication in this thread. It was not my intention to be confrontational, in my passion, I came off hot instead of cool. My ideas and beliefs concerning the subject remain the same.
My apologies to Dallas and Bhark54 and those who took offense for how I said it. Thanks for your understanding.
Love you Dallas! I hope we can meet up again soon, miss your contributions. Love you Bhark, you have years of experience I can learn from and I appreciate your comments.
Craig
:clapping: :happyclap: :giveheart:
Peace... :Peck:
In
JESUS
...willieH :coffee:
Quote from: willieH on November 08, 2007, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: Craig on November 07, 2007, 08:44:24 AM
My apologies for my aggressive style of communication in this thread. It was not my intention to be confrontational, in my passion, I came off hot instead of cool. My ideas and beliefs concerning the subject remain the same.
My apologies to Dallas and Bhark54 and those who took offense for how I said it. Thanks for your understanding.
Love you Dallas! I hope we can meet up again soon, miss your contributions. Love you Bhark, you have years of experience I can learn from and I appreciate your comments.
Craig
:clapping: :happyclap: :giveheart:
Peace... :Peck:
In JESUS
...willieH :coffee:
Craig... you rock!!! :thumbsup:
Carig wrote-
QuoteRight, that is the difference we call in the work world, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." or "There is only one good critisism, and that is constructive critisism." People are so busy pointing fingers blaming others for sin, they forget that we also must supply the solution and restore them gently. I agree, I am sick of people blaming others of sin...with an adendum, because most of them do not provide the solution for a positive change.
I bolded a part because I think you nailed it! Because people are so entwinded with trying to present themselves as good and right they need to put people down and identify them as being down in order to boost themselves up. There isn't a real desire to help people, or a longing of love just that stupid sin at work hiding in religion shrouded by doctrine of law.
QuoteThere isn't a real desire to help people, or a longing of love just that stupid sin at work hiding in religion shrouded by doctrine of law.
I agree. If that is indeed what they are doing, I agree it is sin operating and not love. I get really upset at people who point fingers at me, but do not promote an alternative to what I was doing so I would stop doing what they were critisizing me for. I can say recently, I have finally found some people of integrity who really are patient and genuine in their treatment of me. They provided the solution and coached me on how to arrive there. I am not there yet, but I don't mind them telling me I was wrong, because they are showing me where I can go right. So not everyone who uses the knowledge right and wrong, use it to make themselves feel better, some still use it wisely to promote a fruit of righteousness.