Tentmaker Forum

Hey my Ur pals,

I do not know when or where it happened, but somebody was sitting in his apartment, getting ready to go to bed, when he heard his neighbor drop a shoe on the floor above him. The upstairs neighbor was obviously getting ready for bed, too, and the man below him waited for the thud of the other shoe. Afterward he must have talked about it, and the expression "waiting for the other shoe to drop" became an expressive figure of speech in our language.

Now we come to what we have been waiting for ever since we started to study Romans 5:12–21. Our expectation arose because Paul began this great passage with a contrast: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned. ..." But just when we were expecting the second half of that thought, he broke it off, and everything we have been studying since has in a sense been a digression, or parenthesis.

In fact, there have been two major digressions, which it might be helpful to review before proceeding.

First, Paul explained the sense in which "all sinned." He did not mean that all have become sinners and have therefore sinned, though we would naturally think this, but rather that each of us was declared a sinner because of Adam's original sin or transgression. It is true that we also sin and should be condemned for that, if there were nothing more to be said. But that is not Paul's meaning. He meant that all have been accounted sinners in Adam, so that those who were going to be saved could be accounted righteous in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Since this digression finished at the end of verse 14, we again expected the other shoe to drop. But instead of completing the contrast introduced by verse 12, Paul worked in another long parenthesis to show the differences between our union with Adam, on the one hand, and our union with Jesus Christ, on the other. This second digression started at verse 15 and occupied the next three verses.

It is only when we get to verse 18 that the second shoe finally falls and we get the full impact of the contrast. Paul backs up to give it, restating the first part again, although in slightly different words: "[1] Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, [2] so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men."
There we have it!

But then, lest we have fallen asleep in the meantime and have somehow missed the point after this long wait, Paul makes it again in verse 19, adding: "[1] For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, [2] so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." (Boice, J. M. Romans. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House)



At first glance this suggests all men will be justified (made righteous) but the context of Romans and the NT clearly indicates the reference is all men who are justified by faith alone. Paul is not teaching universalism or that all men will be justified (saved). Recall that in Romans 5:17 (note) Paul speaks of life for those who receive it. The point is that you don't have to do anything to be condemned. Condemnation is Adam's "gift" to you. But if you want to be justified, you must receive God's free gift by grace through faith.

Resource : James Montgomery Boice

Hi Dr. Shoe,

QuoteFirst, Paul explained the sense in which "all sinned." He did not mean that all have become sinners and have therefore sinned, though we would naturally think this, but rather that each of us was declared a sinner because of Adam's original sin or transgression. It is true that we also sin  and should be condemned for that,

So all sinned  doesn't mean they sinned  but they did sin.

I think this shoe bomb is a stink bomb :laughing7:

Gender: Male
Posts: 46

Lee Damboise


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Re: Questions or statements for Lee100, no empty rhetoric please.
« Reply #8 on: Today at 09:04:12 AM »
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Matthew 16:17
          You see, apart from the spirit of "revelation", which comes from above and not from ourselves, the Bible can really be made to say anything we want it to say. Look at the thousands of denominations each based upon differences of interpretation of basically the same Bible. Most Christian cults are even more intense in bible study than average church-goers and they often come up whit some very bizarre teachings. Most people are usually sincere in their beliefs. They really believe they have the truth. But until we have what Peter received when Jesus asked him Who He Was... until then, we only have knowledge which gets filtered through our culturally conditioned mind. The Scriptures, apart from the spirit of revelation often produces horrible systems of belief. Few of us are honest enough with ourselves to cry out to God to be completely set free from the traditions of men, from cultural, parental, political mind-sets, which effect how we read the Scriptures.
          The teaching of eternal torment has permeated the Western civilization for about 1500 years. Few realize the early believers were NOT indoctrinated into this mind-set by Christian leaders. Today it is not long before a child, even though never having read a Bible is exposed to the doctrine of eternal torment AS FACT. It is important to be absolutely certain regarding such an important subject whether we are reading the Bible through pre-conditioned eyes or through enlightenment by the Holy Spirit.

Ask God to reveal through the spirit of revelation all of His attributes and character. One must not know His love, Power, Omnipresence, Mercy through words on a page, one must receive these things by the spirit. Then the Bible will be read with clear eyes of understanding. Then the Bible Will Confirm what the spirit has revealed.
         Peter did NOT BELIEVE that Jesus Christ was the Son of God because he properly interpreted the Scriptures prophesying a Messiah. It was revealed to him by our Father. Upon=THIS= is the body of Christ built  [ My words--not the body of believers-- ], not upon Bible interpretation.

          Interpretation produces division, revelation supported with Scripture produces UNITY. Revelation first, then the Scriptures will witness to the revelation.

Pg 166 An Analytical Study of Words  by Louis Abbott

retyped by Lee Damboise II

Please read                    lee100       from lee damboise II

This is an exultant example of how churches have twisted the word of God to make it say what they want to teach for whatever their real reason are.


                            Example of One Very Toxic Bible


  If you see in this how the Doctrine of Faith has been Man Made, say so Please

                            Jesus' Faith or Yours ? Who's
K.J.V.                Rom. 3:22
   Even the righteousness of God which is by Faith of Jesus Christ...

N.I.V.
   The righteousness from God comes through Faith in Jesus Christ...

C.L.N.T.V.
   A righteousness of God through Jesus Christs' Faith.(E ph. 2.8  Too –through Jesus' Faith)

Gal. 2:16

K.J.V.
   Knowing the a man is not justified by the works of the law, But by the faith of Jesus Christ, even when we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we be justified by the faith of Christ.

N.I.V.
   Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but( by faith in) Jesus Christ.  So we too have put our faith in Jesus Christ that we may be justified by faith in Jesus Christ.  Man put in to be justified

C.L.N.T.V.
   Having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ....(His Faith Not Ours...)


Phil. 3.9
K.J.V.
   And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law, But that which is through the faith of Christ, ( Who's ?) the righteousness which is of God by faith. ( JC'S Faith    NOT ours).

N.I.V.
   And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ the righteousness that  comes from God and is by faith--(Man-made system)

C.L.N.T.V.
   And be found in Him, not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith,( J.C.'s Faith)
Gal. 2:20
K.J.V.
   I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God
N.I.V.
   I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the son of God--Not
C.L.N.T.V.
   With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is of the son of God.



Since I cant make two collums, I have to make a list, sorry it is long.

    * All people today Claiming Israel's Promises
      Only one Gospel;- there are 8 Gospels spoken of in the Bible
      All Peter's gospel
      Pardon
      Baptizms
      repentance
      Confession
      N.I.V. bible
      Bible memorizing
      Bible reading per-ordered
      church oriniziations
      Bingo-church
      Funrazers
      Ritual=Religion-1174 Y-1175 Y-1142 Y-1169 Young's

Eternity goats=heaven and sheep=Hell
sat or sunday Sabbath worship
Tithing
Any of the 640 Laws of the old testament
All The Laws of the denominations  of mankind

                     This All is Man Made Righteousness and Not of God

*



Lee Damboise II

With all due respect, Lee.
We can find this stuff online ourselves.
Why constantly regurgitate it here?

whitewings,

Obviously you don't get it. Please read as many times as nescessary for the light bulb to come on.

beloved servant,

this teaching is so good why reinvent it? true you can find on the internet, but do you honestly look for it?


Lee 2,
please no rabbit trails. stick to the thread please.

Why regurgitate it here?

beloved,

I always like to vomit God's truth where ever I can. :thumbsup:

Exactly, the carnal mind turns the Word into vomit.

Quote from: lee100 on August 22, 2009, 07:57:11 PM
whitewings,

Obviously you don't get it. Please read as many times as nescessary for the light bulb to come on.

But the light bulb IS on. :idea2:
Take of your sun glasses lee100

Because I am hoping that lee100 really read this stuff, showing a salvation of ALL MANKIND or All Things you could name anywhere.

Lee Damboise II

willieH:  :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

Our resident PARROT -- Lee100 -- who has NOTHING substancial to say of his own (except "hey my Ur pals"  :laughing7:), ...squawks another's foolery and deception, once again:

Quote from: lee100 on August 22, 2009, 07:39:34 PM
Hey my Ur pals,

I do not know when or where it happened, but somebody was sitting in his apartment, getting ready to go to bed, when he heard his neighbor drop a shoe on the floor above him. The upstairs neighbor was obviously getting ready for bed, too, and the man below him waited for the thud of the other shoe. Afterward he must have talked about it, and the expression "waiting for the other shoe to drop" became an expressive figure of speech in our language.

Now we come to what we have been waiting for ever since we started to study Romans 5:12–21. Our expectation arose because Paul began this great passage with a contrast: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned. ..." But just when we were expecting the second half of that thought, he broke it off, and everything we have been studying since has in a sense been a digression, or parenthesis.

In fact, there have been two major digressions, which it might be helpful to review before proceeding.

First, Paul explained the sense in which "all sinned." He did not mean that all have become sinners and have therefore sinned, though we would naturally think this, but rather that each of us was declared a sinner because of Adam's original sin or transgression. It is true that we also sin and should be condemned for that, if there were nothing more to be said. But that is not Paul's meaning. He meant that all have been accounted sinners in Adam, so that those who were going to be saved could be accounted righteous in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Since this digression finished at the end of verse 14, we again expected the other shoe to drop. But instead of completing the contrast introduced by verse 12, Paul worked in another long parenthesis to show the differences between our union with Adam, on the one hand, and our union with Jesus Christ, on the other. This second digression started at verse 15 and occupied the next three verses.

It is only when we get to verse 18 that the second shoe finally falls and we get the full impact of the contrast. Paul backs up to give it, restating the first part again, although in slightly different words: "[1] Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, [2] so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men."
There we have it!

But then, lest we have fallen asleep in the meantime and have somehow missed the point after this long wait, Paul makes it again in verse 19, adding: "[1] For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, [2] so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." (Boice, J. M. Romans. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House)



At first glance this suggests all men will be justified (made righteous) but the context of Romans and the NT clearly indicates the reference is all men who are justified by faith alone. Paul is not teaching universalism or that all men will be justified (saved). Recall that in Romans 5:17 (note) Paul speaks of life for those who receive it. The point is that you don't have to do anything to be condemned. Condemnation is Adam's "gift" to you. But if you want to be justified, you must receive God's free gift by grace through faith.

Resource : James Montgomery Boice

As if James Montgomery Boice is the FINAL authority on these passages! :rolleye:

Note to Lee100 -- even though this man is decieved Lee -- you won't be able to blame him for God's JUDGMENT against YOU... For YOU WILLINGLY endorse this foolish idiocy...  :sigh: