everyone,
Rev 22:11 "The one acting unjustly let him act unjustly still, and the filthy (person) let him be made filthy still, and the righteous (person) let him practice righteousness still, and the holy( person) let him be holy still."
This is happening in the New Earth and the New Heavens. This is why the heart does not change simply because you die. The unjustly..the filthy.will continue to be unjustly and filthy in hell. They will continue to sin and blaspheme God's name in hell. They don't want Jesus when they were alive and they won't want Jesus after they die.These unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy in the New Heavens and New Earth age or time or eternal whatever you want to call it. Its over.. All the believers.. the righteous and holy people are eternally with the Godhead and the unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy and are with the devil and his cohorts in hell .
I think I'm changing my mind about coglee. I think he wants to be in our family but just can't come out and say it. Let's keep him, huh gang?
cp
:cloud9: Lee, do you even understand what happens when we die? The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul, separated from the spirit, stays bound in whatever it did not overcome thru the Spirit of Christ, while in life in the body.
The re-union of the two in HIS Spirit, IS the resurrection. The Spirit of Christ IS the rest, IS the sabbath day, IS the resurrection.
Which is why He said.........Lu 14:5 - And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox FALLEN INTO A PIT, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Well, answer the question Lee? Which of you, ie. Pharisaical legalists who stumble over the very first "stone/rock", which is that revelation of the Spirit is needed to perceive the things of the Christ, the Son of the living God, would not loose your carnal ass nature (soul), on THIS, the Sabbath day? Blessings....
Quote from: claypot on August 24, 2009, 10:31:28 PM
I think I'm changing my mind about coglee. I think he wants to be in our family but just can't come out and say it. Let's keep him, huh gang? cp
:cloud9: Me too CP........I think we're beginning to grow on each other. :winkgrin: Blessings....
Quote from: lee100 on August 24, 2009, 10:22:40 PM
everyone,
Rev 22:11 "The one acting unjustly let him act unjustly still, and the filthy (person) let him be made filthy still, and the righteous (person) let him practice righteousness still, and the holy( person) let him be holy still."
This is happening in the New Earth and the New Heavens. This is why the heart does not change simply because you die. The unjustly..the filthy.will continue to be unjustly and filthy in hell. They will continue to sin and blaspheme God's name in hell. They don't want Jesus when they were alive and they won't want Jesus after they die.These unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy in the New Heavens and New Earth age or time or eternal whatever you want to call it. Its over.. All the believers.. the righteous and holy people are eternally with the Godhead and the unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy and are with the devil and his cohorts in hell .
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly;
I like to think Jesus is saying........ "Good or bad, I'm coming and I will set all in order when I get there."
When Christ is sent or revealed in a person there is great war and confusion and sometimes horrible fights but in the end God is All in all. Go figure.
cp
There are several possibilities as to interpretation of these verses. However, a closed-minded individual would likely not be open to that possible further revelation from the Father. Sometimes due to our stubborness and rebellion, God reaches and restores us through painful destruction.
But IF Rev. 22 (and the end of 21) were a picture of the new heaven and new earth, then several other things would be happening as well.
The leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations; the bride (us, the previously redeemed) are saying "come"; the gates are open day and night; and the kings are bringing the nations into it. Good passage of scripture.
Much of the time it's the gentle and "unchurched" that can see it, not the hard-coated religious - though, thank God, undeservedly He did break through my religion to show me His grace and mercy. Either way, it's only seen and believed by revelation - God's.
So I'll not argue, but I will declare; Jesus, Savior of the world. John 4:42.
An interesting article on Tentmaker regarding "Heaven And Earth" detailing the reasoning behind the idea that "Heaven and Earth" is prophetic language signifying Israel. This makes much sense to me in how "the new heaven and new earth" coincide prophetically with New Jerusalem which is the bride. Therefore "the new heaven and new earth" would signify the birth of the bride and how that all who are not in the bride are outside its "gates"
Therefore, this would not suggest the creation of a new physicality in the future, but a present reality which is continuing on to perfection.
Ezekiel 3:27
But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you shall say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says.' Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they (Israel) are a rebellious house.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/heavenandearth.htm
The phrase "let him be filthy still" does not indicate an infinite condition, but rather a present condition which is continuing for each person who is not in the Bride, or New Jerusalem which IS that new heaven and new earth. This does not bear any indication that death shall not be destroyed, because the Bible is clear that in the end, the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Quote from: lee100 on August 24, 2009, 10:22:40 PM
everyone,
Rev 22:11 "The one acting unjustly let him act unjustly still, and the filthy (person) let him be made filthy still, and the righteous (person) let him practice righteousness still, and the holy( person) let him be holy still."
This is happening in the New Earth and the New Heavens. This is why the heart does not change simply because you die. The unjustly..the filthy.will continue to be unjustly and filthy in hell. They will continue to sin and blaspheme God's name in hell. They don't want Jesus when they were alive and they won't want Jesus after they die.These unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy in the New Heavens and New Earth age or time or eternal whatever you want to call it. Its over.. All the believers.. the righteous and holy people are eternally with the Godhead and the unbelievers are acting unjust and filthy and are with the devil and his cohorts in hell .
dear lee100,
The "let him be filthy still etc. etc. is written to the Jews to whom Revelation was written to and, they were to remain either good or bad prior to the Lord's return, not while the new earth was in force.
Quote from: Cardinal on August 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
:cloud9: Lee, do you even understand what happens when we die? The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul, separated from the spirit, stays bound in whatever it did not overcome thru the Spirit of Christ, while in life in the body.
The re-union of the two in HIS Spirit, IS the resurrection. The Spirit of Christ IS the rest, IS the sabbath day, IS the resurrection.
Which is why He said.........Lu 14:5 - And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox FALLEN INTO A PIT, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Well, answer the question Lee? Which of you, ie. Pharisaical legalists who stumble over the very first "stone/rock", which is that revelation of the Spirit is needed to perceive the things of the Christ, the Son of the living God, would not loose your carnal ass nature (soul), on THIS, the Sabbath day? Blessings....
Hi Card, What do you believe about this state? (this soul being bound state). Is the person AWARE that their soul is bound? Or are you saying their soul is unaware...
are you talking a purgatory type state? or??
Just wondering what you're saying...
Thanks!
Quote from: Tony N
The "let him be filthy still etc. etc. is written to the Jews to whom Revelation was written to ...
Why do you think Revelation was written to Jews? In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, Paul says. [Gal. 3:28, Col. 3:11]
Doug
Quote from: sparrow on August 25, 2009, 04:01:07 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on August 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
:cloud9: Lee, do you even understand what happens when we die? The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul, separated from the spirit, stays bound in whatever it did not overcome thru the Spirit of Christ, while in life in the body.
The re-union of the two in HIS Spirit, IS the resurrection. The Spirit of Christ IS the rest, IS the sabbath day, IS the resurrection.
Which is why He said.........Lu 14:5 - And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox FALLEN INTO A PIT, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Well, answer the question Lee? Which of you, ie. Pharisaical legalists who stumble over the very first "stone/rock", which is that revelation of the Spirit is needed to perceive the things of the Christ, the Son of the living God, would not loose your carnal ass nature (soul), on THIS, the Sabbath day? Blessings....
Hi Card, What do you believe about this state? (this soul being bound state). Is the person AWARE that their soul is bound? Or are you saying their soul is unaware...
are you talking a purgatory type state? or??
Just wondering what you're saying...
Thanks!
:cloud9: Yes they are aware they are bound, and yes I'm speaking of a purgatory type state. He reproves us with our own wickedness, the wickedness that He details as proceeding out of the HEARTS of men. Blessings....
cardinal,
was you raised Catholic? Purgatory state? Sorry, not biblical.
:cloud9: No, I wasn't, and neither did I believe in it prior to the Lord. And there are things in there we know not of, until we are ready to bear it. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on August 25, 2009, 05:00:58 AM
Quote from: sparrow on August 25, 2009, 04:01:07 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on August 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
:cloud9: Lee, do you even understand what happens when we die? The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul, separated from the spirit, stays bound in whatever it did not overcome thru the Spirit of Christ, while in life in the body.
The re-union of the two in HIS Spirit, IS the resurrection. The Spirit of Christ IS the rest, IS the sabbath day, IS the resurrection.
Which is why He said.........Lu 14:5 - And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox FALLEN INTO A PIT, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Well, answer the question Lee? Which of you, ie. Pharisaical legalists who stumble over the very first "stone/rock", which is that revelation of the Spirit is needed to perceive the things of the Christ, the Son of the living God, would not loose your carnal ass nature (soul), on THIS, the Sabbath day? Blessings....
Hi Card, What do you believe about this state? (this soul being bound state). Is the person AWARE that their soul is bound? Or are you saying their soul is unaware...
are you talking a purgatory type state? or??
Just wondering what you're saying...
Thanks!
:cloud9: Yes they are aware they are bound, and yes I'm speaking of a purgatory type state. He reproves us with our own wickedness, the wickedness that He details as proceeding out of the HEARTS of men. Blessings....
Do you believe ALL people have their soul bound when they die?
And is the length of this state within the parameters of time?
And if so, what is the length of this state of a person's soul being bound, based on (or dependant upon?)
(Sorry, I ask a lot of questions when trying to understand someone's beliefs only because I like to know fully that I understand what they are saying and what they are believing.) :happy3:
Quote from: sparrow on August 25, 2009, 05:25:16 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on August 25, 2009, 05:00:58 AM
Quote from: sparrow on August 25, 2009, 04:01:07 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on August 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
:cloud9: Lee, do you even understand what happens when we die? The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul, separated from the spirit, stays bound in whatever it did not overcome thru the Spirit of Christ, while in life in the body.
The re-union of the two in HIS Spirit, IS the resurrection. The Spirit of Christ IS the rest, IS the sabbath day, IS the resurrection.
Which is why He said.........Lu 14:5 - And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox FALLEN INTO A PIT, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
Well, answer the question Lee? Which of you, ie. Pharisaical legalists who stumble over the very first "stone/rock", which is that revelation of the Spirit is needed to perceive the things of the Christ, the Son of the living God, would not loose your carnal ass nature (soul), on THIS, the Sabbath day? Blessings....
Hi Card, What do you believe about this state? (this soul being bound state). Is the person AWARE that their soul is bound? Or are you saying their soul is unaware...
are you talking a purgatory type state? or??
Just wondering what you're saying...
Thanks!
:cloud9: Yes they are aware they are bound, and yes I'm speaking of a purgatory type state. He reproves us with our own wickedness, the wickedness that He details as proceeding out of the HEARTS of men. Blessings....
Do you believe ALL people have their soul bound when they die?
And is the length of this state within the parameters of time?
And if so, what is the length of this state of a person's soul being bound, based on (or dependant upon?)
(Sorry, I ask a lot of questions when trying to understand someone's beliefs only because I like to know fully that I understand what they are saying and what they are believing.) :happy3:
Yeah, but sparrow it is alot more fun to assume what they believe and argue against it. :laughing7:
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 25, 2009, 05:26:41 AM
Yeah, but sparrow it is alot more fun to assume what they believe and argue against it. :laughing7:
I know. I'm such a kill-joy.. :laughing7: :laughing7:
Quote from: sparrow on August 25, 2009, 05:25:16 AM
Do you believe ALL people have their soul bound when they die?
And is the length of this state within the parameters of time?
And if so, what is the length of this state of a person's soul being bound, based on (or dependant upon?)
(Sorry, I ask a lot of questions when trying to understand someone's beliefs only because I like to know fully that I understand what they are saying and what they are believing.) :happy3:
:cloud9: That first question may be something only the Lord knows; I haven't pursued Him about it, so I can't say. It appears to me that Elijah and Enoch would be the premiere examples of those that didn't, and as a type of resurrection while still in the body, that Paul was talking about.
There's also the ones that arose when He arose and were seen by many. If their souls went to "heaven", did they come back "down" so they could be resurrected? :laughing7:
Seems to me, those two examples show the two 'types' of peoples and the two types of resurrection Paul talked about, and BOTH were made WHOLE (spirit and soul in union), which is the foundation really of UR.
Everyone assumes that resurrection is only talking about this physical body, but what of the soul? The soul is as the female, the spirit as the male, it takes both in union to produce NEW LIFE = resurrection.
As for the length of time, in ours or theirs? I'm not sure that time exists even that lower heaven sort of version. The Jews prayed for a year for loved ones that had passed. Blessings....
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 25, 2009, 05:26:41 AM
Yeah, but sparrow it is alot more fun to assume what they believe and argue against it. :laughing7:
:cloud9: :grin: Blessings....
Ok, thanks Cardinal... I appreciate your answers!
Sparrow,
With all due respect, there is much information on the Tentmaker Web site that you can read that answers many, if not all, of the questions that you ask on the board.
Lightofthecity.org
Kingdombiblestudies.org
are just another two of many Kingdom sites available to you.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 25, 2009, 06:15:32 AM
Sparrow,
With all due respect, there is much information on the Tentmaker Web site that you can read that answers many, if not all, of the questions that you ask on the board.
Lightofthecity.org
Kingdombiblestudies.org
are just another two of many Kingdom sites available to you.
:dontknow:
Beloved, With all due respect.. :winkgrin: Those sites don't answer SPECIFIC questions that I am asking of a SPECIFIC poster. How am I to know what a person believes if I do not ask them myself? This isn't math. This is spirituality. I'm not asking because I don't have my OWN beliefs on a subject. I am asking because I like to know what others believe.
peace. :icon_flower:
There is only one truth and it is not hidden.
The mystery is alive and dwells among us.
The "others" are brethren or they are not.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 25, 2009, 06:24:13 AM
There is only one truth and it is not hidden.
The mystery is alive and dwells among us.
The "others" are brethren or they are not.
Beloved....
What exactly does this have to do with one member asking another member to clarify their beliefs?
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
John 17 Amplified
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 25, 2009, 06:33:28 AM
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
John 17 Amplified
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.
Ok, Beloved. I will not ask you, personally to clarify YOUR beliefs since you seem to have issue with it. But I will continue to ask others to clarify THEIR beliefs. Afterall, I'm not a mind reader and I don't put it into practice often to ASSUME that I know what is in another person's heart and mind. We do not ALL share the exact same precise beliefs. Clarification when conversing is absolutely necessary.
peace.
Rv 22:11 (CLT) Let the injurer injure still; and let the filthy one be filthy still; and let the just one do righteousness still; and let the holy one be hallowed still.
In part this describes the inherent inertia in our moral orientation. People tend to stay the way they have been. One of our battles is to compensate for wanting to hear again what we already heard the way we heard it said before. When we change and are rising out of a pit we want to take everybody else with us. It is very hard to find so many either don't want to change or just don't change, no matter what we do or say. To not get stuck yourself, to a certain degree you have to allow others to stay bad. And, to not go it alone with the Lord, you have to accept the holy ones tend to stay holy, even if we need to wash one another's feet. Stop dithering. Jesus says to either make the tree good or make it evil. Never committing ourselves to one another because we can't settle on a favorable judgment ruins fellowship and the free flowing of the Spirit. On the other hand, always trying to help the same people who refuse help is a waste. Go get some people who do want what you have. There are enough billions alive that surely God can help us thrive.
Then Sparrow I will repeat only once more, for the well is at hand.
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
John 17 Amplified
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.
Beloved. I feel that you are causing unnecessary division.
I'm sure it is unintentional but I really don't see your point in deterring someone from having CLEARER communication with another.
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
Sparrow, WE ARE OF ONE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT COULD BE MORE CLEAR THAN THAT???????????????????????
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 25, 2009, 06:52:51 AM
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
Sparrow, WE ARE OF ONE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT COULD BE MORE CLEAR THAN THAT???????????????????????
:sigh:
John 17 Amplified
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.
Well? Are you going to ADMIT that you are COG37, ...lee100? :dontknow:
we're waiting!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 25, 2009, 06:33:28 AM
We are of one mind: Jesus Christ.
There is no clarification to be had.
"Faith doesn't stop with head knowledge, it begins with experiences."
peacemaker