Returning to the Father

[rosered]

 Hi Francine ,
  Good posting !  :thumbsup:

  I agree  man was not  in God ,  but made/ accomplish / work  in His likeness and Image


  but the Spirit within  the new man  Adam/ Christ annointed   did come out of God and was sent

  so this sinful flesh is a death sentance
  the flesh of Christ is Spriit and Life

I so wonder if  Job is speaking of the inner man and not so much the cursed outer man here ??

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. 

   the new inner man  is alive  and strengthend by Him  here   but was dead /asleep  /sin state of being ?  awakened to His righteousness  this work of Gods Spirit and Word /seed  knowledge of Him   ..

  this puzzling to me yet ..  :mblush:

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 


Eph 3:18   May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 


Eph 3:19   And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 


Eph 3:20   Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 


Eph 3:21   Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. 


Jhn 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 

  Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.  

  the work of God is  LIFE and love and peace and Joy in Him  :icon_flower:

[sheila]

   Well,you must realize that He is creating ONE NEW MAN of

the two.Son of MAN[Adam/earth] SON OF GOD[Christ/Heaven]


Realizing this the scriptures speak of the REVEALING

of the SONS OF GOD,those born from above,as well as bringing

many sons to glory.drawing all men up[Adam  from below]to sit

in heavenly places[Psalms 113;9]

  Jesus asked to be glorified with the glory that was his BEFORE

 Adam is a son of God also..dominion was given to him on the

earth, the Christ was given all things on earth and heaven


  There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies;

but the splendour of the heavenly bodies is one kind and the

splendour of the earthly bodies is another. THE NEW MAN or

NEW CREATURE is the tearing down that partition of the son of

God that is of heaven from being seperated of the son of God

[Man] that is on earth.

  The UNION OF BEAUTY AND BANDS IS THE ONE NEW

CREATURE OR HOLY THING THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD [THAT

WHICH ORIGINATES IN HEAVEN/GOD]COME IN FLESH[MANKIND]

  Beauty for our ashes...is the divine nature that all men will be

 Glorified with.

  it is so hard to put in words,these things...and really no man

can reveal these things to us, only the Holy spirit can.

  Blessings to all

[rosered]

Zec 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, [even] you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves/  rod ,staff ;   

  the one I called Beauty,

  and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. 

beauty Strong's H5278 - no`am
masculine nounFrom נָעֵם (H5276)


1) kindness, pleasantness, delightfulness, beauty, favour

a) delightfulness

b) symbolic name of one of two staves

c) pleasantness


  Bands  Strong's H2254 - chabal    verb

1) to bind

a) (Qal)

1) to bind

2) to take a pledge, lay to pledge

a) (Qal) to hold by a pledge, take in pledge, hold in pledge

b) (Niphal) to give a pledge, become pledged

3) to destroy, spoil, deal corruptly, offend

a) (Qal) to spoil, corrupt, offend

b) (Niphal) to be ruined

c) (Piel) to destroy, ruin

d) (Pual) to be ruined, be broken

4) to bring forth, travail

  one of the two  ways of working in this  ,   after reading this chapter  :2c:

[Francine]

Rosered:    re: Job 33:4

Job, chapters 32 through 37 are the words of Elihu... 

I won't be reading/posting to Tentmaker for a few weeks.  I just dropped in a few times these past three days... and felt a need to post to Returning to the Father.

Francine

[Paul Hazelwood]

The issue of our pre-existance still remains in one word in scripture.

G605  apokatastasis  ap-ok-at-as'-tas-is
from G600;
reconstitution:--restitution.

Of what nature is this word concerning something we have never been? 

I personally have no problem with the idea of pre-existance, I think in fact the discussion would be more prudent concerning of what nature was our prexistance.

For instance.....

Ford built the 1969 Mach1 Mustang and there are people who spend lots of time and money restoring these cars.   When Ford built them, they were not restoring them.

However, this then brings in another issue.    There are people who restore these cars that change the original configuration and in essence make the cars better and more reliable than they were from the factory.

Is this technically being restored?   Should another word be used?    Did we pre-exist in some form and are being reconstituted to something greater?   Is that possible within the use of this term?

[sheila]

 EXACTLY!

   SO WILL IT BE WITH THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

   the body that is sown is perishable,it is raised imperishable

   it is sown in dishonour,it is raised in glory

   it is sown in weakness,it is raised in power

   it is sown a natural body[first Adam]

  it is raised a spiritual body[last Adam became a life-giving

  spirit/CHRIST]


 

[sheila]

   IT IS WRITTEN[by the finger of God]; The FIRST MAN ADAM

   BECAME A LIVING BEING,

THE LAST ADAM A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT

   I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST

  THE BEGINNING AND THE END

[Francine]

Paul,

Re:  ... make the cars better and more reliable than they were from the factory

Re:  ...reconstituted to something greater



"Restoration" in the context of changing/making something better

The book of Hebrews would agree...  "better" appears 12 times

"Restitution in the context of returning  something to its rightful owner (God, Creator, Father) we are His workmanship...   Restitution of all things...  all in all speaks to this...



but neither restoration nor restitution necessarily require our pre-existence.

Perhaps we need to take another look at "man created in the image and likeness of God"  but as I mentioned to Rosered, I won't be reading/posting to Tentmaker for a few weeks...  but go ahead and start another thread on pre-existence.  I will look forward to reading the posts to it when I get back.

Francine

[sheila]

   Is there yet any seed in the barn...?

   where did God sow that HOLY THING?

   seed brings forth after it's kind?

   what does the parable of the wheat and tares show?

  who sowed the good seed? who sowed the tares/wicked?

   where is the wheat gathered?  where did the wheat come

   from?  Does the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH RETURN

  TO HIM VOID? Does the promised seed raise up wheat?

  Can a kernal of wheat bear fruit to heaven,less it fall to the

  earth and die?

   Not trying to overwhem or even

convince you,Francine. :HeartThrob:

  Just bearing wittness

[peacemaker]

I suppose you'd have to define the context for invisible.

Beyond belief or knowledge :dbook:

Well, in context to our realm, what is invisible?

Reality is merely an illusion, although an extremely persistent one, as the mind tends to see things from the beginning to its end producing a false impression; not from the end to the very beginning.

In context with Gods knowledge is there anything actually invisible?  So if nothing is invisible to God, then I think the context remains in this realm.

Everything IS done on earth, as it IS IN HEAVEN, however, we track everything within the frame work of duality and time.
All There IS, is beyond the linear content, Not the non-linear context? There is actually no beginning or end, as the SPIRIT
always IS AND WILL BE.

"There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed."

This is not in disagreement, only an expression because language is finite.

peacemaker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thought I'd throw this out here.......In the BEGINNING, God created the heavens and the earth. Beginning there runs into a meaning of, "firstfruits".

So now read it this way, "In the firstfruits, God created the heavens and the earth." You can apply these two elements as spirit and soul, or mind of Christ and the glorified body.

Heaven is the substance of the Spirit of Christ. Heaven means literally, "something HEAVED UP", like a mountain. The mountain of the Lord, IS Christ.

A heave offering was lifted up from/above the shoulders, just like you took a sheep and lifted it straight up = the perpendicular of the cross, and an offering that had blood. It paints a picture of the one lost He goes after and raises (heaves) him up.

A wave offering is the horizontal of the cross and was the firstfruits of grain. The two motions together make the sign of the cross.

We all came here with the knowledge of who we were in Him, but the carnal mind is as a veil of forgetfulness that must be rent over time thru the washing of the Word.

We were one with Him from the foundation of the world, not AS HIM, but one with Him as a man is joined to his wife and they are counted as one flesh. The New Agers proclaim themselves Christ and are in error, because their equation is essentially 1 = 1, instead of 1+1 = 1.

It is taking His glory unto themselves, ie. vain glory, lacking of His substance, because He will not give His glory unto another (image). Blessings...

[Beloved Servant]

Oh! Blessed Cardinal!
I knew you had this and have been so long waiting for your appearing.

[Beloved Servant]

My God, My God, why has Thou forsaken Me?

[Beloved Servant]

In the beginning: Elohim
It is finished:       Elohim

[Beloved Servant]

                           My Family
                          My Family

[peacemaker]

"One times One equals One."

Regardless of how many times it is multiplied NO ONE WILL BE LOST   0.99999999999peacemaker

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Thought I'd throw this out here.......In the BEGINNING, God created the heavens and the earth. Beginning there runs into a meaning of, "firstfruits".

So now read it this way, "In the firstfruits, God created the heavens and the earth." You can apply these two elements as spirit and soul, or mind of Christ and the glorified body.

I think it should be firstfruit (without the s). Remember the post about the "image" being more like the "outline" of Jesus?
And of course Jesus is the only firstfruit that was created before the foundation of the earth.

[CHB]

:cloud9: Thought I'd throw this out here.......In the BEGINNING, God created the heavens and the earth. Beginning there runs into a meaning of, "firstfruits".

So now read it this way, "In the firstfruits, God created the heavens and the earth." You can apply these two elements as spirit and soul, or mind of Christ and the glorified body.

I think it should be firstfruit (without the s). Remember the post about the "image" being more like the "outline" of Jesus?
And of course Jesus is the only firstfruit that was created before the foundation of the earth.

WW,

This is the way I see it also.

CHB

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: Thought I'd throw this out here.......In the BEGINNING, God created the heavens and the earth. Beginning there runs into a meaning of, "firstfruits".

So now read it this way, "In the firstfruits, God created the heavens and the earth." You can apply these two elements as spirit and soul, or mind of Christ and the glorified body.

I think it should be firstfruit (without the s). Remember the post about the "image" being more like the "outline" of Jesus?
And of course Jesus is the only firstfruit that was created before the foundation of the earth.

:cloud9: Hi WW......a few more thoughts on that......the risen Christ is the true substance of faith, of things not seen (while in the flesh/grave).

The Father's faith joined with His, is the "same spirit", that if it dwells in you, will raise YOU from the death of this fleshly grave we are residing in until the resurrection of HIM, in us.

We resurrect AS a member of HIS SPIRITUAL MANY-MEMBERED BODY, which is the SAME BODY that we have ALWAYS been one with from the foundation of the world, the glory He prayed for us to have just as the Father and He were one.

This is why when He arose, saints arose with Him. If the Head rises, the body must also. Because He subjected Himself to His Head, then the faith of the greater (the Father) can come into play.

It's the same principle as in a King and His subjects. If the subjects come into agreement with the words of the King concerning His kingdom authority, then the benefits established by the WORD of that King, can manifest to the subjects.

He SPOKE the worlds into being, and by His Word (which is the espressed purpose of His will) mixed with His nature of faith are they established.

Additionally, the waters above the firmament and the waters below the firmament were ONE to begin with and He divided them. Water speaks of a flow of the spirit, and dividing them does not change the innate characteristics of the spirit, which is why the spirit goes back to the One who sent it, and why Christ is the light of all men that come into the world. Blessings....

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Dallas... :hithere:

Haven't read the entire thread, and am just "jumpin' in" here...  :blush:

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

We didn't become alive until creation.

I disagree with this statement bro... we did not BECOME "alive" at creation, we became, "living SOULS" at Creation...  :dontknow:

FLESHLY MEN [in ADAM] are not the Sons of God (but are eventually given the POWER to become/return to being the SONS they have ALWAYS BEEN) --  Luke 15:11-32

The SONS of GOD are "gods" -- Psalm 82:6 -- John 10:34 [in CHRIST]... not MEN... the SONS of GOD "became" men... to LEARN the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL... that GOD BE, ...ALL in ALL...

MEN are temporal... the SONS of GOD are ETERNAL and are that which GOD is COMPOSED OF... His BODY and His TEMPLE... in which HE DWELLS!

Let me state that we are NOT "gods" because of ourselves in any way... we are "gods" because (1) HE SAYS we are... and (2) Because HE has decided we are...   :bowing: YHVH

CHRIST is an UNCHANGING entity -- Heb 13:8 -- and WE are members of HIS BODY... which means that WE are an UNCHANGING entity WITH HIM, for we are WITH Him in the Father...

We [SONS of GOD] BECAME men... we could not BECOME men, unless the "we" aspect was ALREADY present... 

You my friend, are a MAN which can BECOME an "doctor" due to KNOWLEDGE GAINED... or BECOME a "thief" due to KNOWLEDGE GAINED... etc.

Prior to either, ...you WERE still a man, and yet, NOT an "doctor" or a "thief" prior to BECOMING these things due to gaining via EXPERIENCE, ...the KNOWLEDGE of them.

Man wasn't a spirit before hand needing a husk for our spirit to find a vehicle in which to travel this physical plane. If you also look at the scripture God breathed the gift of life into the body.

The "spirit" that GOD breathed into each of us, is the "WHO" in HIM, that we REALLY ARE, bro!

In order to "BE" a part of GOD (HE ...BEING... ALL in ALL), and GOD is an UNCHANGING entity... then How can WE -- BEING -- the ALL that HE is "IN" -- BE -- (as portions of HIS makeup/body)... something that HAS BEGINNING?

REASON demands that, the COMPOSITION [SONS] of something [GOD] which has NOT BEGINNING and IS UNCHANGING, must have NO BEGINNING, and BE UNCHANGING as well...

The KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil is not a CREATION... it is an INHERENT essence of WHO and WHAT God ...IS... and that WHO and WHAT is being REVEALED to that which HE calls, His SONS and His BODY...

I have used this example before... hopefully it will convey to you how I see this...

EXAMPLE:

Let us say that DRY = GOOD and RIGHTEOUSNESS and LIFE
Let us also say that WET = EVIL, SIN and DEATH

Let us further say that WE are the [eternal] BODY of CHRIST... and we are IN the ETERNAL setting... This setting is ETERNALLY DRY...  Well... one day GOD gathers us ALL together, and says to ALL of us... "There is something called WET"... and upon this announcement we, not having the KNOWLEDGE of "WET" for we are inherently DRY...  remain in a QUANDARY which is devoid of UNDERSTANDING (lacking KNOWLEDGE)...  For we do not even KNOW, that the state of DRY is "GOOD"... for there is nothing to compare it to!

GOD does not want His SONS, whom He FOREVER loves, to be devoid of Himself in ANY way, so He decides that He shall REVEAL the KNOWLEDGE of "DRY and WET" according to HIS DIVINE REVELATION agenda... 

He then communicates to us that, even though we shall RETURN to DRYNESS, ...in revealing HIS LIVING KNOWLEDGE of DRY and WET... we shall BECOME -- "WET"

He  then creates a scenario which is ISOLATED from the ETERNAL setting... (the Creation)... To this, in anticipation, we ALL [all SONS] SHOUT for JOY! -- Job 38:7

One by One... He places us ALL into the "WET" scenario to GAIN the knowledge of it, by experiencing it... then... One by One... He removes us from being WET...

Though we RETURN to, and remain FOREVER "DRY" after this LEARNING experience, we NOW KNOW what the TWO are ["DRY and WET"], and REJOICE and praise Him FOREVER... That in our DRYNESS, we can FOREVER appreciate it by the comparitive KNOWLEDGE we NOW have -- to WETNESS...

As the UNCOMFORTABLE and PERILOUS experience of "WET" has displayed to us, by the KNOWLEDGE we have gained of it... serves FOREVER to MAGNIFY the COMFORTABLE and SAFE state of "DRY" in which YHVH GOD in His beautiful, and LOVING ETERNAL WISDOM has given us to BE...   :bgdance:

The living condition was empowered, turned on, activated, otherwise had a start. It doesn't say God made the man from the ground and lead a spirit into it, or gave it to a spirit, or filled it with a spirit.

It says, the spirit of God gave man life. You recieved life through the spirit, you didn't have spirit or exsist as spirit until life was breathed from THE SPIRIT.

A-HA!  :laughing7:  This is my point!  GOD never changes, and GOD therefore ...IS... ALL in ALL... Time does not afford GOD something that He did NOT HAVE prior to the creation of time...

My belief is this... the WORD made everything that was made -- John 1:3 -- and the WORD does not CHANGE either!  -- Heb 13:8 -- so EVERTHING that was MADE was already IN the WORD and is  IN and proceeds FROM, the HEART of YHVH...  and therefore HAD NO "STARTING or BEGINNING". 

The "beginning" was not something that had a BEGINNING it was something that BEGAN the REVELATION of that which ALREADY IS... the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... which IS contained in the WORD which does NOT CHANGE!  And which ALWAYS IS as it IS...

The biggest HURDLE in the SPIRIT is found in the observer as observing that which is "MADE" as having a BEGINNING... which would mean that something within the WORD [contained in the ETERNAL FOREKNOWLEDGE of YHVH] which has NO BEGINNING... actually "BEGAN" something from it.

The WORD which "MADE or CREATED" all things, really means He REVEALED things which were ALREADY present in Him... for the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD which is seen and contained IN the WORD had from ETERNAL perspective, already DECLARED the END from BEFORE the BEGINNING even was manifest, and the END (which had yet to occur), was where His REVELATION started!  ...and called those things (all of time and creation) which "were NOT" [the creation in the manifestation of TIME] as though they "were" [already a "done deal"!]-- Rom 4:17

Why?  Because the BEGINNING [alpha] and the END [omega] are both IN JESUS CHRIST, which is BOTH simulataneously... and which has NEITHER of these characteristics in the ETERNAL...  :laughing7:

That you or I -- as FINITES, observe something, does not make that which is observed, manifest... we are only observing that which IS in the permanent ETERNAL KNOWLEDGE of GOD, which is manifest BY HIM, before us [in varying moments of time], to observe.

The rehma of God, went out from Him and thusly empowered the body.

Again... each SON is both "learning" and "partaking" of the REVELATION of the LIVING KNOWLEDGE of YHVH God, of GOOD and EVIL...

Unless you think God's spirit is a conglomerate of mankinds spirits? Then that's a whole other issue, and I would beable to know you are really not interested in truth but in vain philosophy, emphasizing imagination over straight forward thinking.

The very same can be said of your observation, brother Dallas... this type of determination can only be using ones own observation as the measure of another.

Is it more stable IMO, to present ones view, and then leave it up to God note and conclude the TRUTH in the hearts of others.  :dontknow:

GOD notes that He does NOT CHANGE -- Mal 3:6 -- and also notes to BE "ALL in ALL" -- 1 Cor 15:28

That YHVH does NOT BECOME other than He ALWAYS ...IS... means that the "ALL" [Himself] that He IS Himself --- and the ALL that He is ...IN... [His SONS] are ETERNAL UNCHANGING, PERFECT and COMPLETE states of both... which have ALWAYS BEEN... and are UNCHANGING...

The word "when" in -- 1 Cor 15:28 -- is a NOW designation... for GOD is a being which is ALWAYS in NOW... 

The FINITE mind will determine that "when" in this verse is "when time is completely elapsed", ...however, that does not coincide with the END as the BEGINNING of God's Declaration of Time...  :mshock:

The END ...IS... the BEGINNING, and the BEGINNING ...IS... the END!  CHRIST ...IS... the ALPHA and the OMEGA...

That WE are bound to and IN time... does not keep YHVH from BEING ALL in ALL... for the consumation of TIME is riding upon the ETERNAL clock not vice-versa... The ETERNAL being IN PLACE before during and after TIME is within its MOVING course.

Hope that doesn't sound confusing...  exactly what ones thoughts are, at times... hard to put into words  :mblush:

I'm really not trying to be "all up on myself, or a know it all"  I will however talk and exlain the things that are plainly obvious and need to be said, maybe to help to keep things from floating away into all mysticism.

You presently have a viewpoint which GOD has DECLARED that YOU shall have presently... Just as "ET'ers" presently have a viewpoint which GOD has DECLARED that THEY shall have... as do I...  as does everyone else...

We are ALL either upon the LEARNING curve of God, ...growing in the "SOIL" of His WORD as we discover its WONDEROUS BURIED -- Matt 13:44 -- and HIDDEN TREASURE -- Prov 25:2 --

OR 

We are become [know-it-alls] which are STAGNATING amidst the VANITY of our own "present understanding" -- Prov 16:25 -- failing to seek and to grasp the wisdom that GOD has something NEW which we do not KNOW today... will surely be found tomorrow, if we keep looking!  :winkgrin:

Sometimes tomorrow contains, a discovery of an entirely NEW SPIRITUAL perspective or at times, we discover CORRECTION of OLD and CARNAL ones...

The inability to continue to LEARN, is essentially the PRIDEFUL dilemma which befalls MOST of "christianity"... and is the INIQUITY which they are guilty of:  Matt 7:22-23

A viewpoint must align with REASON in order to be TRUE, otherwise God's WORD would not CALL us to REASON -- Isaiah 1:18 --  and as we enter into REASON with Him, does the garbage of ourselves [CRIMSON in the SINFUL experience which resultant cost, was the BLOOD of the Savior], fall to the wayside... and become as "SNOW"...

Within our FINITE individual, flesh encumbered humanity... is found an INCOMPLETE observation emerging from each one of us which is along the pathway of learning, misaligned with REASON in this place or that,  or possibly many places...  :dontknow:

That is why He calls us to search with our WHOLE [all of our] "Heart" -- Jer 29:13 -- This is not something that is ever done in a given moment, ...rather, is done within the dedication and sacrifice of self, during the course of a LIFETIME...  :happy3:

Only ONE "knows" it all... and that is the ONLY TRUE God, ...YHVH GOD... the rest, await completion... which is "where" we shall arrive upon our return to Him... where HE IS --- ALL in ALL...

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9: