I went to a funeral yesterday, which was officiated by a minister of the United Pentecostal Church, aka, Oneness. To the best of my understanding, they believe Jesus was God the Father in flesh, and while Jesus was on earth, no One was in heaven. Yet they say that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. I don't understand that.
Well, that's not the main reason for this post. The Oneness, as a group, are generally considered extremely conservative (legalistic) - women shouldn't cut their hair, they shouldn't go to theaters, no TVs in their homes, must speak in tongues to be saved, must be baptized "IN JESUS' NAME ONLY" to be saved, strong emphasis on Eternal Damnation/hellfire. Well, I actually enjoyed the sermon given by the minister, and being curious about things, I did some reading about the UPC/Oneness doctrine. I came across the following about the Restitution of All Things, which piqued my interest;
[emphasis mine] "We understand the scripture to teach the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21). But we cannot find where the devil, his angels, and all sinners are included. (See Rev. 20:10)."
I thought it interesting they would even mention the restitution of all things, and confusing that once again, somehow, all only really means some. However, that statement "we cannot find where the devil, his angels, and all sinners are included" almost sounds hopeful - as in, "if we could find it or be shown it, maybe we could believe it". Hmmm...
Quote from: jabcat on June 12, 2011, 11:04:06 AM
I went to a funeral yesterday, which was officiated by a minister of the United Pentecostal Church, aka, Oneness. To the best of my understanding, they believe Jesus was God the Father in flesh, and while Jesus was on earth, no One was in heaven. Yet they say that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. I don't understand that.
Me neikther.
It would mean:
- The voice from heaven during His baptism was just a trick of Jesus.
- Jesus prayed to/talked with someone in heaven that doesn't exist/wasn't there.
- Jesus didn't raise from the dead. He was raised by someone else. But who?
Quote[emphasis mine] "We understand the scripture to teach the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21). But we cannot find where the devil, his angels, and all sinners are included. (See Rev. 20:10)."
I thought it interesting they would even mention the restitution of all things, and confusing that once again, somehow, all only really means some. However, that statement "we cannot find where the devil, his angels, and all sinners are included" almost sounds hopeful - as in, "if we could find it or be shown it, maybe we could believe it". Hmmm...
Do they teach some kind of purgatory (with real fire).
It can also simply mean that salvation is
offered to all humans who kneel before Jesus.
Jesus came to save mankind. Nothing is said about anything not human. That excludes teh devil and his angels.
The main question is what does "things" mean?
Only all sort of humans (things) black, white, fat, thin, old ,young, etc?
:cloud9: Here in Indiana, we have a lot of "oneness" churches. From what I've seen, their primary function seems to be PREVENTING people from receiving the baptism in the HG, because a lot of unbelievers associate that with them only, and no one wants to "be" like them, if it's a "requirement" for closeness to God.
I've known a lot of people who left the bondage that sect presented, and went out into the world with a vengence, almost refusing to "check" themselves from self-destructive behavior, in part BECAUSE "they believed that they were "damned" by leaving the "church" anyway, so what difference does it make." Sad but true, I had some of them tell me this.
When we start with a Truth we can build on that foundation, man I reason gets befuddled when he cant see, so man starts a different and new foundation that he, man can get a earthy understanding of and that is what man peddles. Here is a Truth to build on....
Deuteronomy 6:4
(ASV) Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:
(CLV) Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.
(KJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(YLT) `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
That bit of truth is in every Bible.
Every denomination, including Jewish ones, build on that truth.
The result... a zillion views.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2011, 10:13:17 PM
That bit of truth is in every Bible.
Every denomination, including Jewish ones, build on that truth.
The result... a zillion views.
Dont believe so, perhaps as you see it.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2011, 12:38:21 PM
Do they teach some kind of purgatory (with real fire).
It can also simply mean that salvation is offered to all humans who kneel before Jesus.
Jesus came to save mankind. Nothing is said about anything not human. That excludes teh devil and his angels.
The main question is what does "things" mean?
Only all sort of humans (things) black, white, fat, thin, old ,young, etc?
I know many say "Jesus is savior of the world means, all have the opportunity or are offered". However, I've never really seen an ET group talk of the restitution of all things, but then as many other, then exclude most things.
No purgatory. They not only believe you will go to eternal hell if you die unsaved, but I've also read that you can only be saved within the confines/rules/regulations etc. of their particular "denomination" (including sanctioned water baptism "in Jesus name" only).
Just email them and ask if they are a Rob Bell type of denomination that believes even non-believers are save because "the restitution of all things".
"We understand the scripture to teach the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21). But we cannot find where the devil, his angels, and all sinners are included. (See Rev. 20:10)."
YLTRevelation 20
10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
The verse doesn't mention sinners. So either they added to the verse or believe beast or false prophet represents the sinners.
I find it an extremely odd statement. They admit they don't know.
Surely they know all the hell verses the preach about. But that conflicts with their 'restitution of all things'. So they found a big hole in their doctrine and still teach it....
Yes, I agree, it doesn't fit together.
Here's a statement I found about their beliefs;
"Heaven, Hell - Both the just and unjust will be resurrected, and all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. A just God will determine the eternal destiny of every soul: The unjust will go to everlasting fire and punishment, while the righteous will receive eternal life."
Even if they saw it(UR), they would not receive you with it, unless you got a shave and a hair cut, accepted their Godhead doctrine, and submitted to the pastor ( I kno I am bad- pray for me)
:cloud9: Sad, but true.... :msealed: