Questions & Some of My Thoughts

[rrich7]

HI!

I think understanding the original text of the scripture is a big part in us dissecting & studying the word. It is my understanding that the Greek bible was a translation from the original language the scripture was inspired & written in (correct me if I'm wrong please). If that is the case & since the translators weren't inspired & were merely translating words without understanding full meaning, doesn't that still leave the possibility for error? Also should we rely on Greek translation or should we look more into what it was before? Is there even any information on the original language it was written in or is that language long lost?

Secondly, it seems apparent to me that even with the mis-translations, some of us led by God & guided by & given discernment by the Holy Spirit, still see past the seemingly ET supporting scriptures to the verses that tend to be ignored in ET teaching churches. I know I never heard ANY of the verses that deny eternal torment in my 15 years in a ET church. Then after seeing this we look further into the earliest writings of the bible, which just further substantiates what God led us to. Do you all think, since all is possible with God, the truth can come even without knowledge of the actions & doctrines of man making the word of no effect?

Thirdly, the argument that we are being childlike & wishful & placing our own wish of all people being saved on God. I know based on the scripture that it is Gods will that all be saved & that there is no good in my flesh. The human flesh delights in evil, the torture of our enemies is what we wish for. Instead of seeing other humans as our brothers & sisters, we deem them enemies & we want revenge for the wrong they've done to us.  In God's eyes the sinful nature is the enemy, but the spirit is His offspring. 
Didn't Jesus tell us to be childlike? Didn't he tell us to love our neighbors & enemies & not only those who are like us? Didn't he say to show mercy as God has shown mercy? Didn't he tell us judge not? God is love & what is love?

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Why is it that, such scriptures are blatantly ignored in E.T churches or grossly taken out of context or used only when it is convenient to be used? With such scriptures there is nothing to be taken out of context, they are not in parable or written in a way that would be difficult to gain the meaning. They are straight forward & to the point.

We will know them by their fruits. What are the fruits of mainstream Christianity?

In my observation of scripture & the church it seems the church has forgotten God is love & what God defines love as. Maybe this is just part of the subjection to futility & the ability of Satan to cause confusion. God has yet to soften their hearts. I know it is only by God that we come to faith & grace, I understand that.

However, my human flesh can't help at times to get frustrated that others can't see what God has blessed me to see, because where I was lost, He found me in His time & I want them to be found. I then have to remind myself that everything happens in Gods time & not my own. 

Sometimes its a lot to wrap my head around & I try to remind myself that not all will be revealed in this life, but at the end all will be revealed so dwelling on trying to get the entire picture in my current state is a bit futile. I should then while continuing to pray for wisdom & guidance, also remember to focus on what God has shown me.

I'm just rambling guys.. like I said its a lot to wrap my head around!

The Good News is Just SOOO good! I want to know all I can about it, even in knowing that I won't know everything in this life.

[ed]

Doctrine often gets in the way of interpretation.

Main stream Christianity interprets according to their doctrine.  They have schools that teach their leaders not to stray from the doctrines of the church.  Those in the pew take what is fed to them.  They are indoctrinated. 

The good news is that the internet is changing that a bit.   Information that was once hard to find is not extremely easy to find.  You are proof of that and so am I.  I could not have discussed this stuff years ago.  Not very easily anyhows. 

I think we well see much faster change in the years to come.

I still have doctrinal issues that I can't even discuss here because they are outside of the doctrine of this board.  The good thing is that the heresy of universal reconciliation has been around since Christianity started.  It has been held by many great theologians.  It is Biblical.  You can talk about it and be in the acceptable lines of thinking.  I ramble as well.

Sometimes I just write and then don't post.

Gonna post this one.

I enjoy your posts rr!

.

[rrich7]

Doctrine often gets in the way of interpretation.

Main stream Christianity interprets according to their doctrine.  They have schools that teach their leaders not to stray from the doctrines of the church.  Those in the pew take what is fed to them.  They are indoctrinated. 

The good news is that the internet is changing that a bit.   Information that was once hard to find is not extremely easy to find.  You are proof of that and so am I.  I could not have discussed this stuff years ago.  Not very easily anyhows. 

I think we well see much faster change in the years to come.

I still have doctrinal issues that I can't even discuss here because they are outside of the doctrine of this board.  The good thing is that the heresy of universal reconciliation has been around since Christianity started.  It has been held by many great theologians.  It is Biblical.  You can talk about it and be in the acceptable lines of thinking.  I ramble as well.

Sometimes I just write and then don't post.

Gonna post this one.

I enjoy your posts rr!

.

I did that earlier wrote an entire thing noticed u was rambling and started over haha

I still struggle with some doctrinal teachings too, much like the battle of good & evil, I sometimes get those whisperings in my mind what if you're wrong & this is some trickery of satan, but I pray for strength n discernment & remember that I will them by their fruits. God is love & that basis solely is enough to substantiate this gospel when those whispers start.

May I ask how you are "dealing" with the doctrinal issues?

[ed]

May I ask how you are "dealing" with the doctrinal issues?

The same way you do.  I post on the internet.

I also have a few tests.

Romans 8:6 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

If a doctrine brings me life and peace I figure I'm on a good spiritual path.

One that I am struggling with right now has to do with correction in 1 Corinthians.  I disagree with Paul.  Can I get away with that?  I'm still trying.  We will see how it works out.  If I get specific it will be a big thread derail so I'll just leave it at that.

.

[rrich7]

The same way you do.  I post on the internet.

I also have a few tests.

Romans 8:6 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

If a doctrine brings me life and peace I figure I'm on a good spiritual path.

One that I am struggling with right now has to do with correction in 1 Corinthians.  I disagree with Paul.  Can I get away with that?  I'm still trying.  We will see how it works out.  If I get specific it will be a big thread derail so I'll just leave it at that.

I like that verse. I have to say Romans is one of my favorite books (am i allowed a favorite? lol)

I'm not exactly sure which scripture you're talking about specifically, but I study from King James & the way its written causes me to doubt or disagree with some of the scriptures I come across. Maybe it would help if we got a bible (if you don't already have one) that is more closely translated to the original scripture? Idk lol

God will bring us to the answers in His good time Ed, we just gotta keep searching :)  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

  :iagree:


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[WhiteWings]

If that is the case & since the translators weren't inspired & were merely translating words without understanding full meaning, doesn't that still leave the possibility for error? Also should we rely on Greek translation or should we look more into what it was before?

I gets even worse if your Bible isn't in Hebrew or Greek. That's another translation. Then finally consider that none of the translators understood the NT Greek. To them it looked as Greek written by uneducated men. In 1946-1956 the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered. After studying them, which took several years, scholars concluded they (translators) were wrong. The writers weren't  uneducated men; it's the translators that needed some extra education because they completely misunderstood many grammar rules and words when translation. So that means old translations can't be perfect. But even a perfect scholar, dare I say HS included, isn't able to translate without flaw because many things can't be translated without losing depth. But even then I have to admit the Greek in at least one case adds depth. "it's finished" means a lot in Greek. But if translated back to Hebrew at first it seems to lack the depth of the Greek. But looking at it phonetically it reveals 2 additional meanings/wordplays defining Jesus' task on earth....

:2c:

[WhiteWings]

I know many/some don't (dare to) agree with above because that would mean the word of God is lost. Yes, it's obscured and corrupted, but even from the worst translatons we can learn a lot. We also read things like Scripture being locked up, hidden from understanding, blinded etc. Maybe allowing corruptions is one of the tools God uses to accomplish the hiding.
Nowadays looking at the originals, using a Hebraic perspective seems to become of interest to a larger number of people. By that the corruption process is slowing undone and God's  word is restored.

:2c:

[rrich7]

I know many/some don't (dare to) agree with above because that would mean the word of God is lost. Yes, it's obscured and corrupted, but even from the worst translatons we can learn a lot. We also read things like Scripture being locked up, hidden from understanding, blinded etc. Maybe allowing corruptions is one of the tools God uses to accomplish the hiding.
Nowadays looking at the originals, using a Hebraic perspective seems to become of interest to a larger number of people. By that the corruption process is slowing undone and God's  word is restored.

:2c:

:iagree:

I always subject the 'happenings' of things in the world as part of God's plan. He makes beauty out of some not so great things doesn't he?? It definitely can be a way to test the spirit, to see how far those who love Him will go to find the truth. And like you said even, in the current state, somehow some of us still found the beauty of it all.

Do you find it funny that some people think because God's word (written by man & then translated by man) is divine it cannot be corrupted?? Or do you think they are taking it out of perspective? Wasn't Jesus God's word made alive (as man)??  & He is incorruptible, but what about a holy inspired book in the hands of ignorant men?? If it was impossible to corrupt would there be a need to say the men make the word of God have no effect? I mean, they did it then, interpreted things how they wanted & inserted their practices & personal beliefs, why is it so hard for some to believe that now?

I'm rambling a bit (again) haha. But I like to ask questions  :laughing7:  But like you said, God works all things according to His purpose. Sometimes I wonder if asking these types of questions are futile for that very same reason.

[WhiteWings]

Asking questions have been never futile. It's the way we learn. But when asking questions be prepared to find answers you don't like because learning isn't just adding knowledge but quite often correcting former knowledge.

Do you find it funny that some people think because God's word (written by man & then translated by man) is divine it cannot be corrupted??

Many say so but oddly enough the same people say it can be corrupted because only their translation is right and the many others are wrong. And of course they are partly correct.
There is only one 100% true word of God. Jesus had just one teaching that didn't change on a daily basis. So if 10 translations contradict at least 9 are wrong.
And even if every person on this planet had a Bible that was personally written by Jesus, I'm sure mankind would find ways to base many conflicting teachings on those utterly perfect originals.....

[ed]

Maybe Jesus is the only word of God.

Read a good physical/spiritual example of the word of God becoming "corrupt".
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev146.htm

Talking about the moves of God.   People holding onto the old, and not pressing forward into the new.
"Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

The type is the manna that was given for just the day.  We can't live on the old manna.  We have to trust God each day for life...........give is this day our daily bread.  The spiritual is often missed.

When the spiritual is missed, the word is dead.  How much had been given, but just wasted away?  Every day is new.  Every day is a new day to receive the manna that is just for that day.  Lets eat!

.

[ed]

Asking questions have been never futile. It's the way we learn. But when asking questions be prepared to find answers you don't like because learning isn't just adding knowledge but quite often correcting former knowledge.

Do you find it funny that some people think because God's word (written by man & then translated by man) is divine it cannot be corrupted??

Many say so but oddly enough the same people say it can be corrupted because only their translation is right and the many others are wrong. And of course they are partly correct.
There is only one 100% true word of God. Jesus had just one teaching that didn't change on a daily basis. So if 10 translations contradict at least 9 are wrong.
And even if every person on this planet had a Bible that was personally written by Jesus, I'm sure mankind would find ways to base many conflicting teachings on those utterly perfect originals.....

So many don't see the spiritual.  They bring everything back to the physical law.

WW I figure you are best person to ask on this.

The woman that was taken in adultery that Jesus did not judge.  Was Jesus acting outside of the law?  Was the crowd missing something about the law?  Was it unjust to stone her?

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1277

The above article gives a pretty good answer to my question.

Google everything.

.

.

[sheila]

the prophecy of Hosea 4 ;14  I will not punish your daughters when they turn to prostitution

nor your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery,BECAUSE THE MEN THEMSELVES CONSORT

WITH HARLOT'S AND SACRIFICE WITH SHRINE PROSTITUTES.


   Wisdom warned in Proverbs 5;15 to drink water from your own cistern,running water from your

own well...[less the man's wife also  turn to adultery against him]

    It was not's God's nature to join them in their hypocrisy and double standards of morality.

[WhiteWings]

Asking questions have been never futile. It's the way we learn. But when asking questions be prepared to find answers you don't like because learning isn't just adding knowledge but quite often correcting former knowledge.

Do you find it funny that some people think because God's word (written by man & then translated by man) is divine it cannot be corrupted??

Many say so but oddly enough the same people say it can be corrupted because only their translation is right and the many others are wrong. And of course they are partly correct.
There is only one 100% true word of God. Jesus had just one teaching that didn't change on a daily basis. So if 10 translations contradict at least 9 are wrong.
And even if every person on this planet had a Bible that was personally written by Jesus, I'm sure mankind would find ways to base many conflicting teachings on those utterly perfect originals.....

So many don't see the spiritual.  They bring everything back to the physical law.

WW I figure you are best person to ask on this.

The woman that was taken in adultery that Jesus did not judge.  Was Jesus acting outside of the law?  Was the crowd missing something about the law?  Was it unjust to stone her?

http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/did-god-really-command-this-stuff/msg168634/#msg168634

It was lawful I think. Can't find the article/quote so I write just from memory....
The ancient Jews wrote that a Rabbi/Court that passed the death sentence more than x times in 7 years should be considered cruel.
X is a small amount. Maybe 7 but likely as low as 3.
When a young man reported he found his bride not to be a virgin during wedding night the priests usually mocked him of not having a clue what he was talking about. Those two examples combined for me seem to indicate death sentence was rarely carried out.

BTW I think Jesus didn't judge the woman at all. He left passed on the judgement to her father/husband (where are those who accuse you?)

But I must admit it is confusing be because I'm pretty sure she was the daughter of a priest that was part of the Sanhedrin (high court). I would say they should have asked Jesus to burn her.

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

[ed]

Thank you WW.

rr what first got you interested in UR?  What was your first gimps?

[marie glen]

...amen it's all so plain and easy to see and understand in the scriptures, when we don't do fancy doctrinal twisting! I love reading the Bible itself.. with no human intervention or explaining.. like the Word of God needs human minds to translate and clarify God's words.

It's all history, and the outline of God's plan of the ages. from endowing thinking ability (which includes the ability to make choices, albeit limited and not choice as to chosen in this life or after)..

And the outline of the fall.. the results.. the rescue.. the destination..

In humility passing on God's words.. not our own added to it, our own genius (as if! :laughing7: )

I daresay in eternity we will find all groups of believers had some things right and some things very wrong.
(It's too bad, really. Makes one wish there was a group which had it all 'right'!)

[rosered]

...amen it's all so plain and easy to see and understand in the scriptures, when we don't do fancy doctrinal twisting! I love reading the Bible itself.. with no human intervention or explaining.. like the Word of God needs human minds to translate and clarify God's words.

It's all history, and the outline of God's plan of the ages. from endowing thinking ability (which includes the ability to make choices, albeit limited and not choice as to chosen in this life or after)..

And the outline of the fall.. the results.. the rescue.. the destination..

In humility passing on God's words.. not our own added to it, our own genius (as if! :laughing7: )

I daresay in eternity we will find all groups of believers had some things right and some things very wrong.
(It's too bad, really. Makes one wish there was a group which had it all 'right'!)

Amen Marie  !!LOVE THE LIVING WORD OF GOD  ,

  but it seems thats what forums and internet   and big church houses   is for   :laughing7:  [ you said,In humility passing on God's words.. not our own added to it, adding  our own genius as if  !]   

[marie glen]

Amen! gals!!

...oh to have the patience, calm and loving acceptance Jesus has! :smile:

[rosered]

  Amen ,    friends    and family ,


138:1 ¶ [[[A Psalm] of David.]] I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee. 


Psa 138:2  I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. 


Psa 138:3  In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul. 

Psa 138:4   All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth. 


Psa 138:5   Yea, they shall sing in the ways of the LORD: for great is the glory of the LORD. 


Psa 138:6   Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off. 


Psa 138:7   Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.  


Psa 138:8   The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands. 



I believe in the written Word,

Exd 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Exd 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.






2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Spoken Word ,Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.     ears to hear what the Spirit is saying

Living Word ! 
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 


Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God. 
Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.    Jhn 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 


Jhn 1:5   And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 
Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 


Jhn 1:7   The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 
Jhn 1:8   He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 


Jhn 1:9   That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 


Jhn 1:10   He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.    Jhn 1:11   He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 


Jhn 1:12   But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:    Jhn 1:13   Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 


Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 


Jhn 1:15   John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 


Jhn 1:16   And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 


Jhn 1:17   For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ  

  so beautiful   

[marie glen]

 


beautiful indeed!!   :myahoo:  :egyptdance: :icon_flower: 

[rrich7]

I love you all & appreciate all of the input! :)   

I agree, even if it was in a perfect language we could understand, humans in our nature, would still find a way to project our own desires & meanings onto God. 

:dsunny:

Thank you WW.

rr what first got you interested in UR?  What was your first gimps?

Well, I was raised by a father who was raised by ET teaching. I've basically been "in church" (the building) since birth & early on my relationship with God was amazing (maybe because children are more receptive to Him, maybe? Just my opinion tho).  I remember being about 7 or 8 and having a dream (I dream a lot actually).  In the dream, I was in my bed alone & my bed was surrounding by flames & I was frightened, I thought it was hell so I grabbed a bible, that was conveniently on my bed & kept calling on God, however no relief came. I eventually, in the dream, ended up in tears, feeling abandoned & woke up in tears.
My father had told me that when evil spirits caused those dreams & fear to call on the name of God to rebuke them. I had done that, but nothing happened, so then I began to question if I was really saved? Or saved enough? I thought God would never abandon me.

I think that's when my process started, I would spend the next 10 years going back & forth, trying to figure out if I was saved enough, & start noticing a lot of the "issues" in the church.  I used to pray a lot that everyone could be saved, telling God I knew it was in His power & I just didn't see how it was "fair" to punish people for being placed in a situation they didn't ask to be in. I battled with that a lot.. & eventually the constant prayer led me here.

So honestly, I think the glimpsing started a while ago, but the doctrines kept haunting me. I honestly believe though, that things happen in God's good time & there were lessons I needed to learn before He 'lightened" my veil.

Now that I think back on that dream, maybe I interpreted it to be the wrong hell.. there was nothing scary (demonic images or shadows) in it. Just darkness & blue flame. A light in a darkness, maybe a hint of God's consuming fire or presence?? Maybe God didn't come when I called because He was already there, just maybe  :Chinscratch: :dsunny:

  :banana: :banana:

[rosered]

  wow ,


what a  path  and journey rrich , you are Loved
and agree we share what we know as truth  ,

I agree, even if it was in a perfect language we could understand, humans in our nature, would still find a way to project our own desires & meanings onto God

  We love you too and glad you are here with us  :HeartThrob: