Dear Cog,
You have opened so many new threads that you can not keep up with your self.
Many people here have asked you questions that you ignore or overlook.
This thread is a home for the unanswered Cog questions.
LOL! Great idea.
Dear Cog,
You stated more than once that you are here on Tentmaker to sharpen your iron.
Are you also doing this to Catholic, Islamic, Jewish or any other discussion boards or just this one?
Dear beloved,
I have discussed the scriptures with Catholics, no muslims, no Jews. I go where I'm lead to. I want to hear your theology from the horses mouth, not second hand hear say. God bless.
And this question I have:
Ok, then how do you understand Jesus' taking away the sin of the world? Is it a conditional taking away, a potential one, based on repentance? Is that how you understand it? When scripture says he came to put an end to sin, what is it you understand that to mean?
Ron
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 11:40:02 PM
Dear beloved,
I have discussed the scriptures with Catholics, no muslims, no Jews. I go where I'm lead to. I want to hear your theology from the horses mouth, not second hand hear say. God bless.
Your answer makes no sense.
Soooooo...this is the third and last time I will ask a very simple question.
Are you PRESENTLY doing this to Catholic, Islamic, Jewish or any other discussion boards or just this one?
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 11:40:02 PM
Dear beloved,
I want to hear your theology from the horses mouth, not second hand hear say. God bless.
This also makes no sense and irrelevant. You never asked about my theology — and hearsay is always second-hand information. lol.
No.
Thank you.
Do you collude with any other people as to the answers or questions posted on the Tentmaker forum?
Here's a few questions:
First, do you really believe what your screen name says? If so, what makes you a better candidate to be "chosen" than anyone else?
Second, do you honestly believe that there are people that aren't worth saving?
Hey J,
First, do you really believe what your screen name says? If so, what makes you a better candidate to be "chosen" than anyone else?
COG: Yes. No better than anyone else.
Second, do you honestly believe that there are people that aren't worth saving?
COG: No. That is not my call but God's alone.( Romans 9:14-25)
Beloved,
No.
How do you see your work edifying the Body of Christ on this forum?
Beloved,
I don't believe everyone on this forum is saved and can claim being apart of the body of Christ. I'm delivering the truth of God's word. Rather you accept it is up to the Holy Spirit to open your hearts to receive. Get your iron sharpen or keep it dull..it's up to you.
Well...Gog...
If it up to the Holy Spirit...
What pray tell is one to do?
:cloud9: That's the innate problem with that respect of persons spirit that goes along with the 'fly or fry' mentality of exclusiveness...........if you don't watch it, pretty soon it excludes YOU, too, LOL. Blessings....
cog
i have 2 questions,
Am i correct to understand you believe that not all will be saved
if your answer is yes, then my question is to you:
Which is it you believe:
God can't save ALL His creation or
God won't save all His creation
Hey Looking up,
Which is it you believe:
God can't save ALL His creation or
God won't save all His creation
COG: All things are possible with God. He is all powerful. God can save all creation, but chooses not to.
The concept of God's chosen people is first found in the Old Testament. God chose Israel as His special people. "And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them; and He brought you out of Egypt with His Presence, with His mighty power" (Deuteronomy 4:37). "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth" (Deuteronomy 7:6 // Deuteronomy 14:2).
The election of physical Israel was but a sign of a higher spiritual election on the basis, not of the lineage of Abraham, but of the faith of Abraham. This was God's plan even before the creation of the world. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:3-6).
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:20:07 AM
COG: All things are possible with God. He is all powerful. God can save all creation, but chooses not to.
Fortunatly that God doesn't exist.
Ultimatly if he does then no one is safe no matter what you convince yourself of. That God is not worthy of worship.
The logic will never hold up to a God that just chooses not to save some after declaring otherwise so that God is a liar and you are not safe even if he has made you think so right now.
:cloud9: Amen, Paul........Blessings.... :thumbsup:
Paul,
That God does exist or you just flat out denying predestination and election exists in the bible.
How do you interpret Matthew 10:32-33?
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:20:07 AM
God can save all creation, but chooses not to.
No, He chose only to save people like you.
Rude, arrogant, boastful, who:
2 Timothy 3:7 are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth.
37, how do you interpret,
1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Shawn71,
Below is a fantastic commentary of the interpretation of 1 Tim 4:1O
realize the "usual" translation invites a "universalist" interpretation,
Does it? We don't think so. The word μάλιστα is singling out "those who believe" (Greek "πιστῶν") as the specific portion of "all men". He is the savior of all humanity, the Apostle is saying, but then he modifies the term "all humanity" by adding a modifier, which is that Jesus is the savior to the benefit of a "very high point on a scale of extent" — in other words, to the benefit of a SUBSET of "all men". That subset is the group that believes. Given the narrowness of the scale of intent demonstrated by this superlative adverb, we didn't feel that using the adverb "especially" suited the context of μάλιστα especially well (uh, pardon the pun...). So we used "that is" instead.
but doesn't the choice you've made amount to "taking sides" theologically?
Quite the opposite. Since we don't think μάλιστα implies any universalism, but rather is specifically REFUTING universalism (since Jesus is called the savior of those who believe[!] and not just of all humanity), we're attempting to remove the taking sides that takes place if one renders μάλιστα as "especially" in 1 Timothy 4:10. Also, Paul's use of μάλιστα is taking sides! He's saying that Jesus is the savior of a specific subset of "all humanity" (πάντων ἀνθρώπων), that is, he's the savior of "believers" (πιστῶν).
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:44:40 AM
Paul,
That God does exist or you just flat out denying predestination and election exists in the bible.
How do you interpret Matthew 10:32-33?
You did not include the main point, of course that God could exist, but if He does then your election is not secure and He is a liar.
You also posture the greatest religious fallacy ever. That is if I deny someones interpretation it is equal to denying God and that is also a lie.
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:44:40 AM
Paul,
That God does exist or you just flat out denying predestination and election exists in the bible.
How do you interpret Matthew 10:32-33?
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. mt1032-33
cog, how do these verses deny predestination and election?
cp
Quote from: claypot on August 18, 2009, 06:07:21 AM
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:44:40 AM
Paul,
That God does exist or you just flat out denying predestination and election exists in the bible.
How do you interpret Matthew 10:32-33?
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. mt1032-33
cog, how do these verses deny predestination and election?
cp
COG was implying that I was denying God because I denied COGs view of God.
That was a sad statement Paul.
You see what he has done?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 18, 2009, 06:14:32 AM
That was a sad statement Paul.
You see what he has done?
Well, not sure what you see. I see that rather than accept that I do not share his view of God he has taken it upon himself to be the judge of my standing with God and stated indirectly that I am condemned.
I only point out the logic of certain views of God, any one is free to continue to believe them, the true God will not forsake them.
Paul,
No Paul, I simply want your interpretation of Mt 10:32-33.
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 05:01:56 AM
Below is a fantastic commentary of the interpretation of 1 Tim 4:1O
realize the "usual" translation invites a "universalist" interpretation,
Does it? We don't think so. The word μάλιστα is singling out "those who believe" (Greek "πιστῶν") as the specific portion of "all men". He is the savior of all humanity, the Apostle is saying, but then he modifies the term "all humanity" by adding a modifier, which is that Jesus is the savior to the benefit of a "very high point on a scale of extent" — in other words, to the benefit of a SUBSET of "all men". That subset is the group that believes. Given the narrowness of the scale of intent demonstrated by this superlative adverb, we didn't feel that using the adverb "especially" suited the context of μάλιστα especially well (uh, pardon the pun...). So we used "that is" instead.
but doesn't the choice you've made amount to "taking sides" theologically?
Quite the opposite. Since we don't think μάλιστα implies any universalism, but rather is specifically REFUTING universalism (since Jesus is called the savior of those who believe[!] and not just of all humanity), we're attempting to remove the taking sides that takes place if one renders μάλιστα as "especially" in 1 Timothy 4:10. Also, Paul's use of μάλιστα is taking sides! He's saying that Jesus is the savior of a specific subset of "all humanity" (πάντων ἀνθρώπων), that is, he's the savior of "believers" (πιστῶν).
"False religion and doctrine are created by taking a verse out of context, lifting it up and saying it means this." -- cog
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 06:24:16 AM
Paul,
No Paul, I simply want your interpretation of Mt 10:32-33.
ok, certainly.
It is a statement of assurance that Jesus will not forsake anyone.
It is proof that the confession that Jesus is Lord through the Holy Spirit for the Glory of God the Father will be honored and affirmed for all mankind in the most positive sense.
Salvation.
Paul,
He's a spider with a sticky web.
Paul,
Jesus says if you confess Him before PEOPLE I will confess you before my Father...but whoever DENIES ME OR DISOWNS ME BEFORE PEOPLE, I ALSO WILL DENY him BEFORE MY FATHER.
Its meaning is clear and I'm mean CRYSTAL...This describes a soul-damning denial of Christ- not the sort of temporary wavering Peter was guilty of (LK 22:56-62)- but the sin of those who through fear, shame, neglect, delay, or love of the WORLD reject all evidence and revelation and decline to confess Christ as Lord and King, until it is too late.
Hey Paul, cog has been good for anyone seeking God IMO. He or she has a bit of a crush on you it seems (according to cogs own words a while back) so could you ask him or her ....
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. mt1032-33
cog, how do these verses deny predestination and election?
cp
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 06:41:24 AM
Paul,
Jesus says if you confess Him before PEOPLE I will confess you before my Father...but whoever DENIES ME OR DISOWNS ME BEFORE PEOPLE, I ALSO WILL DENY him BEFORE MY FATHER.
Its meaning is clear and I'm mean CRYSTAL...This describes a soul-damning denial of Christ- not the sort of temporary wavering Peter was guilty of (LK 22:56-62)- but the sin of those who through fear, shame, neglect, delay, or love of the WORLD reject all evidence and revelation and decline to confess Christ as Lord and King, until it is too late.
cog, you say until it's too late. I read in the Good Book that His mercy endures forever while His anger lasts but a moment yet you seem to believe the opposite of what Scripture says concerning the majority of His creation (people wise anyway).
Hmmmmmmmmm.
cp
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 06:41:24 AM
Paul,
Jesus says if you confess Him before PEOPLE I will confess you before my Father...but whoever DENIES ME OR DISOWNS ME BEFORE PEOPLE, I ALSO WILL DENY him BEFORE MY FATHER.
Its meaning is clear and I'm mean CRYSTAL...This describes a soul-damning denial of Christ- not the sort of temporary wavering Peter was guilty of (LK 22:56-62)- but the sin of those who through fear, shame, neglect, delay, or love of the WORLD reject all evidence and revelation and decline to confess Christ as Lord and King, until it is too late.
Actually it only shows a judgment. Jesus said to Paul YOU SHALL DENY ME THREE TIMES.
It is YOU CoG37 in all your scripture twisting ways who assert "not the sort of temporary wavering...." It is YOU who judge the TYPE of denial Peter was guilty of, and the scripture simply says that Peter denied Christ. Temporary wavering? Nice try at a euphemism. Peter DENIED Christ before men. Done. No need for me to insert "wavering" where it says "deny."
So when I see that Peter denied Christ, rather than to try to determine what sort or type of denial it was, when the scripture DOES NOT SAY what type, just that Peter denied Christ, then I conform my mind to the scripture rather than asserting my own beliefs.
To wit: "but whoever DENIES ME OR DISOWNS ME BEFORE PEOPLE, I ALSO WILL DENY him BEFORE MY FATHER." This does not denote a denial of anyone forever, just like Peter's denial of Christ did not receive an eternal denial from Christ. All I have to do is take the scripture for what it says and ignore your additions.
It is amazing to watch you break your own rules.
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 06:41:24 AM
Paul,
Jesus says if you confess Him before PEOPLE I will confess you before my Father...but whoever DENIES ME OR DISOWNS ME BEFORE PEOPLE, I ALSO WILL DENY him BEFORE MY FATHER.
Its meaning is clear and I'm mean CRYSTAL...This describes a soul-damning denial of Christ- not the sort of temporary wavering Peter was guilty of (LK 22:56-62)- but the sin of those who through fear, shame, neglect, delay, or love of the WORLD reject all evidence and revelation and decline to confess Christ as Lord and King, until it is too late.
There is no scriptural basis for "until it is too late" so again as in many replies from you, you have offered me nothing I have to consider scripturally.
But you are free to believe in that illusion of God if you like.
There are too many in the faith that believe in a God that they must appease as if the slightest waiver will cause retribution and fury upon them.
So much so that people deceive themselves into a place where they feel safe from a monster. Yep that's right, I'm tired of screwing around. Your not safe from such a God no matter how many songs you sing, no matter how many verses you post, no matter how many people you try to convince otherwise.
CoG the God you present is a monster, plain and simple, and of course it may be true that a monster rules the universe and no one can do a thing about it, but, I do not have to worship such a God.
The truth is that human nature has the truth already, human nature understands LOVE but our humanity makes it hard to see where it is.
Our nature also has fear, and we have to be taught to fear God in horror, we do not naturally believe that such a monsterous force exists it must be forced upon us through constant fallacy and lies.
We know that humans have been almost unimaginably cruel, but we also know that there is a nature within humanity that seeks to STOP it.
So if us little puny humans will sacrifice and DIE to stop a torturous human being, then the proof of the REAL God is contained in that image.
And the real God does not choose to do that which is worse than the most evil human could do to another.
This will be my last comment to COG, COG you can have the last word back to me
Make it count.
cog:
So according to your answer He won't, even though He has the Power and the ability to bring each one of His children to the knowledge of the truth.
I am glad that i don't know and worship the monster you do.
If the god that you praise is in fact the supreme being that creates the untold billions of children of which the vast majority are doomed from the beginning of his creation for eternal torture and he COULD have brought them to the knowledge of the truth but just WOULD not, i do not want anything to do with him.
i KNOW He is not the monster you think He is.
I have read a declaration on another website here is just part of this individuals' declaration and i have the same attitude as he:
Why is it that, ALL of HUMANITY must, be set free?
Well, consider this--
It is because NONE of HUMANITY were ever ASKED or given a CHOICE.... in the following:
- to be conceived or created in the first place......
- if they would want to be born at all......
- as to whom their parents might be....
- to have a body of flesh and blood.......
- about their physical characteristics and even what sex to be.....
- about birth defects, mental illness, or retardation that they may have....
- to have "inherited" a weak and fallen nature of sin.......
- to be condemned by sin, from birth......
- to be bound onto disobedience......
- to be made sinners, ------because, the angels were not......
- to be under the penalty of death, from the very beginning of their life.......
- to be made, - liken unto sheep, constantly going astray.......
- to be an enemy of God......
- to be bound in stubbornness.......
- to be tested by evil spirits.......
- to be enticed with numerous temptations.......
- for the many trials to tests them……
- to live under a curse of sickness and sin.......
- for a life of pain, sorrows, troubles and tears.......
- for life on this earth at all.......
So why, is MANKIND being told by PREACHERS that they will be held ACCOUNTABLE for their SINS, - when they RECEIVED against their WILL,… and most definitely not by their CHOOSING, an INHERITED SIN NATURE from the first MAN ADAM?
--------------------------------------------------------------
So let it be known this day,
that if the LORD JESUS CHRIST, the son of the living God, who was put to death, was buried and rose from the grave:
- if He ISN’T the savior of the world, all men, as He says He is.....
1 Tim 4:10 and 1 John 4:14.
- if He DOESN’T save all mankind to the utmost, as He states that He will......
Heb 7:25.
- if He DOESN’T reconcile all that are lost, as He the Bible states that He will......
Col 1:10.
- if He DOESN’T make all things new, as He says He will.....
Rev 21:5.
- if He DOESN’T draw all men unto Himself, as He said He would do.....
John 12:32.
- if He DOESN’T ransom all men, as He states he already has....
1 Tim 2:6.
- if He DOESN’T justify all men, as He proclaims he already has....
Rom 5:18.
- if He DIDN’T taste death for every man, as the Scriptures declares He has....
2 Cor 5:15.
- if He DOESN’T make everyone alive, as He says he will....
Rom 5:18 and 1 Cor 15:22-28.
- if He DOESN’T destroy all the works of the devil, as He says He will....
1 John 3:8.
- if all the iniquity of men, was NOT laid on Him, as the Scriptures says it was.....
Isa 53:6
- if He did NOT take away the 'sin' of the world, as the Bible says He did....
John 1:29.
- if He did NOT die for all, as the scriptures says He did....
2 Cor 5:15.
- if every knee will NOT bow unto Christ Jesus, as the Bible says they will….
Phil 2:9.
- if every tongue will NOT confess righteousness and strength in the Lord, as He says will happen….
Phil 2:9.
- if He will NOT have mercy on all men, as He said He has…..
Rom 11:32.
- if every creature in heaven and on earth will NOT say, blessing and honor be unto Him, the Lamb…..
Rev 5:3.
- if He DOESN’T abolish all death and sorrows, as He says He will do…..
1 John 3:8 and Rev 21:5 and Isa 25:8.
- if all the ends of the earth will NOT turn to Him and worship Him, as the Bible says will happen….
Psa 22:27.
- if God will NOT restore everything, as He says He is going to do….
Act 3:21.
- if there is NOT a renewal of all things when Christ sits on His throne, as the Bible says there will be…..
Matt18:28.
- if it ISN’T God’s will for all men to be saved, and His will cannot be thwarted, as the Scriptures declare…
1 Tim 2:4 and Isa 46:10.
- if He ISN’T the Good Shepherd, who seeks and saves every lost lamb, as the Bible portraits Him to be….
John 10:2.
-if He ISN’T the propitiation (covering) for the sins of the whole world, as He says He is….
1 John 2:2.
----------------------------------
Then, herein is my DECLARATION unto the UNIVERSE:
“ ……because the Savior of the World, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, does have the keys of HELL and DEATH…..
and if He WILL NOT deliver ALL mankind from their fallen predicament, which was instilled upon them not by their CHOOSING….
Therefore…..if eternal torment and torture for souls who die as lost is true, then….
I hereby state on - 10 October 2002 - that I DO NOT want any part of Jesus Christ whatsoever.
And - I hereby request that my name be removed from the BOOK of LIFE.
And - I hereby request that I be ACCURSED.”
My name is Allen J. Steinhauer, ….at Eau Claire, Wisc.
If anyone cares to read the full thought it can be found here:
http://jesusthelightoftheworld.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/1999
Looking up
You assume all God's creatures are His children..this is not so. You have to be born into the family Of God( Jn3:3)to be His children. There are 2 kinds of people in the bible: Children of God and Children of wrath (Eph 2:3)
"For God so loves the inhabitants ...." (John 3:16)
"It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)
I have seen his love for ALL, open your eyes and heart to him.
peacemaker
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 07:35:26 AM
Looking up
You assume all God's creatures are His children..this is not so. You have to be born into the family Of God( Jn3:3)to be His children. There are 2 kinds of people in the bible: Children of God and Children of wrath (Eph 2:3)
A
cog, I mean dog, will always return to its vomit. To them there is safety and security in it.
cp
Quote from: lookingup on August 18, 2009, 07:15:37 AM
I hereby state on - 10 October 2002 - that I DO NOT want any part of Jesus Christ whatsoever.
And - I hereby request that my name be removed from the BOOK of LIFE.
And - I hereby request that I be ACCURSED."
My name is Allen J. Steinhauer, ....at Eau Claire, Wisc.[/color]
I choose to be with the ones that God abandons.
QuoteThen, herein is my DECLARATION unto the UNIVERSE:
" ......because the Savior of the World, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, does have the keys of HELL and DEATH.....
and if He WILL NOT deliver ALL mankind from their fallen predicament, which was instilled upon them not by their CHOOSING....
Therefore.....if eternal torment and torture for souls who die as lost is true, then....
I hereby state on - 10 October 2002 - that I DO NOT want any part of Jesus Christ whatsoever.
And - I hereby request that my name be removed from the BOOK of LIFE.
And - I hereby request that I be ACCURSED."
My name is Allen J. Steinhauer, ....at Eau Claire, Wisc.
I also agree with this, I could not love a "saviour" that would only save few....what has happened to me...it all started when I could not live with or accept the concept of eternal torture for anyone....it's so ironic, when I identified as christian I didn't really care about what happened to anyone else, although I was more guilty of indifference than cold hearted callousness, I was just happy that possibly I was secure...when I looked to the church for answers, the one given to me that we can't worry too much about others, we have to work out and worry about our own salvation became totally unsatisfactory (and somewhat selfish) to me...worse yet, when a christian councilor told me that the only reason they preach the gospel is because they don't know who God has chosen before the dawn of time (this was about 15 months ago before I was aware of the UR concept, I found that answer totally burdensome and depressing to say the least) :thumbdown: :mshock:
I confess I do still dislike people now and again, however I find the thought of people I dislike being tortured forever a total and unspeakable nightmare, just imagine how bad it is if I picture people I love being tortured forever...the thought of my worst enemy being tortured forever with no merciful pause is enough to actually make me begin to love them
It just cannot be true that God could save the world and never had no intention of doing so for anyone, let alone the vast majority of humanity ever created, that would make this life an utter travesty, not to mention a cruel farce and utter sham
I don't think it's an accident that I found this website, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as UR just over a year ago, all I do know is that I could never ever again be indifferent and unconcerned about others, like I once was
BTW I think "christian" is just a label anyway, one I prefer not to use myself anyway
Thank and praise God for the internet, if this had happened 10 years ago, I honestly don't know where I would be, I have noticed that the ETers arguments are starting to make less and less sense to me and I'm no easy pushover, I tried hard not to accept UR just because it actually makes sense and because my heart wanted it to be true, I had to be sure it was right
Quote from: PaulThere are too many in the faith that believe in a God that they must appease as if the slightest waiver will cause retribution and fury upon them.
If that were so, this world would be a nicer place to live. So it must not be so.
I think they could care less, myself.
Micah 6:8
He hath shewn thee, O man, what is good: and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Shadow,
you said:
BTW I think "christian" is just a label anyway, one I prefer not to use myself anyway.
COG: Really? What do you prefer to be called? Being a Christian is being Christ-like, being a genuine disciple of his teachings and following in His footsteps. Maybe it is just a lable and doesn't mean anything to you because you are not one spiritually( Jn3:3), just one naturally( religious, by name only). If Christian was "just a label" why did God put it in the bible? ( Acts 11:26) No offense, but your loosy goosy liberal thinking brings reproach to the body of Christ.
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 07:35:26 AM
Looking up
You assume all God's creatures are His children..this is not so. You have to be born into the family Of God( Jn3:3)to be His children. There are 2 kinds of people in the bible: Children of God and Children of wrath (Eph 2:3)
:cloud9: They ARE all His children, CoG........there were two trees in the midst of the garden.........the tree of life (represented by the golden candlestick), and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (represented by the table of shewbread).
Therefore, according to the pattern shown Moses in the mount, which we are told is the pattern of heavenly things in Hebrews 10, then if the inner court is the MIDST of His garden, then the WHOLE THING is His garden. That means the outer court in which EVEN STRANGERS were permitted to enter, IS HIS GARDEN.
We all are the planting of the Lord, in which He has 'planted' a measure of faith to receive Him. His 'wrath' is poured out to push us into finding that measure of faith within to turn to Him, NOT to destroy the man, but the bondages holding the man.
Your problem is you have had the revelation yet that God speaks 'fractionally', ie. not to men only, but to PARTS of men. We are a spirit, who has a soul, who lives in a body. Ask Him to open your eyes. It is not a coincidence you are here. Blessings.....
Quote from: Molly on August 18, 2009, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: PaulThere are too many in the faith that believe in a God that they must appease as if the slightest waiver will cause retribution and fury upon them.
If that were so, this world would be a nicer place to live. So it must not be so.
I think they could care less, myself.
Micah 6:8
He hath shewn thee, O man, what is good: and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with thy God?
What I wrote is only the tip of the iceberg. Belief that such a thing exists when there is no observable evidence then turns to various things, delusion that whatever you do in devotion to such a creature is ok (including murdering abortion doctors), flat out rebellion because the human mind believes that such a flawed creature can be defeated. Or comitting acts of evil daring this creature show itself to stop you.
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:51:40 PM
Shadow,
you said:
BTW I think "christian" is just a label anyway, one I prefer not to use myself anyway.
COG: Really? What do you prefer to be called? Being a Christian is being Christ-like, being a genuine disciple of his teachings and following in His footsteps. Maybe it is just a lable and doesn't mean anything to you because you are not one spiritually( Jn3:3), just one naturally( religious, by name only). If Christian was "just a label" why did God put it in the bible? ( Acts 11:26) No offense, but your loosy goosy liberal thinking brings reproach to the body of Christ.
Funny that out of all the answers given to you in this thread, that you would single my statement out :sigh:
You came on here to basically imply that anyone who doesn't adhere or embrace your doctrine isn't a true christian anyway, so what's the problem if I label myself the way yourself and others like yourself view people such as myself
And FYI I am not liberal, I'm conservative, as surprising as this may sound to you, I support such things as capital punishment, corporal punishment and harsh discipline for criminals and law and order and a correct way of running and doing things, and I do agree that God will deal out harsh punishment, however what I do disagree with is your vile doctrine of eternal torture, that's not justice, that's total insanity and cruel and unusual punishment :thewife: :thewife: :thewife:
I think people such as WillieH and a few others have addressed you and your POV much more eloquently than I've been able to
Cardinal,
All of God's creatures are His Creation, not all His Children.All of Adam's descendants are indeed God's children, but only from the perspective of creation. In a spiritual sense, however, it is a different matter. To become a child of God one must be born into the Family ( Jn3:3 Gal 3:26). Genuinely born again Christians are God's children, not the children of wrath who's father is the devil.(John 8:42-44 ; Ephesians 2:3). There are two types of people in the bible. Children of God and Children of wrath (of the devil). For you to deny this is to put your head in the sand and blaspheme God's word.
John 8:42-44 " If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I'm saying? It is because you cannot hear my Word. 44 YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, AND WANT TO DO THE DESIRES OF YOUR FATHER. HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING AND DOES NOT STAND IN THE TRUTH BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH IN him.
JESUS IS CLEAR WHO IS OF GOD AND WHO IS NOT. CHRISTIANITY IS A FAMILY, NOT A WORLDLY COUNTRY CLUB.
Shadow,
I could not imagine myself if some asked me if I were a Christian and I responded " No, I prefer not to be called a Christian, I'ts just a label". That person should be appalled , I know I would. BTW, Universalism comes from liberal roots. I'ts liberal to the core.
:cloud9: Hi CoG.......and again, you are not listening to anything but your own limited perceptions that seek to SLAY you, including the one that just accused me of blasphemy, which, since you are judged as you also judge........
A father means first in origin also, in this case, as an originator of thoughts of the heart from which the mouth speaks. Notice that Jesus also spoke to Satan in one of His disciples, namely Peter, when Peter gave that voice expression, against the purposes of the Spirit of God. Did that mean Peter's literal father was Satan? I think not.
Again, there were two trees in the midst of the garden, and one of them has a serpent in it to overcome. It hasn't dawned on you yet, that BOTH those trees, including the one with the serpent are IN YOU.
It is against the serpent in the table of shewbread/tree of knowledge of good and evil, that He speaks, NOT against the vessels that contain it, though He is not above pointing out to them which voice they are giving expression to.
This is part of the bondage of corruption HE, HE, HE lowered us all into, and He would not be a RIGHTEOUS God to then condemn the vessels of that which HE Himself lowered us into. Blessings....
PS. And as Willie pointed out to you in another thread, Christian was a name MEN gave MEN.......no where in there does God's breath call us that.
Cardinal,
I have no idea where all that just came from. wow. Amazing.
you said:
PS. And as Willie pointed out to you in another thread, Christian was a name MEN gave MEN.......no where in there does God's breath call us that.
God breathed Acts 11:26 " And when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. An for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called CHRISTIANS IN Antioch.
God bless.
:cloud9: I know you don't know where that all came from. :sigh:
And: Recounting a fact thru His breath, does not imply His stamp of approval on that fact. Blessings....
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on August 18, 2009, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 18, 2009, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: PaulThere are too many in the faith that believe in a God that they must appease as if the slightest waiver will cause retribution and fury upon them.
If that were so, this world would be a nicer place to live. So it must not be so.
I think they could care less, myself.
Micah 6:8
He hath shewn thee, O man, what is good: and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with thy God?
What I wrote is only the tip of the iceberg. Belief that such a thing exists when there is no observable evidence then turns to various things, delusion that whatever you do in devotion to such a creature is ok (including murdering abortion doctors), flat out rebellion because the human mind believes that such a flawed creature can be defeated. Or comitting acts of evil daring this creature show itself to stop you.
You need to write a paper on this--the psychological effects of ET on the human mind.
And, then clearly show--which is never done--why ET is not in the Bible.
The problem is, one has to know him intimately to read these passages with a different eye.
And, it serves the purpose of those who would control.
Quote from: CoGGod breathed Acts 11:26 " And when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. An for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called CHRISTIANS IN Antioch.
Thanks, CoG. Antioch has a very interesting history, betrayed as they were by their fellow Christians to the north during the crusades. It's interesting to know that what is today called the orthodox church were the first to be called Christians. And, they have been hounded and persecuted to the ends of the earth--often by other Christians.
I wanted to say to you that yes, God is creating a family. But, don't you think his family would be just like him? Then, one has to think--what is he like? what is his character? what would he do?
Jesus never harmed anyone when he walked this earth. He never parsed out his mercy. He gave generously to everyone of his time, his glory, his words, and his miracles.
Many didn't receive him at that time, and many do not receive him today. But, that didn't stop him from pouring himself out to everyone. Why would he do that? Do you think God doesn't know who his family is?
If we are to be like him, we have to do the same, even if we do not understand it. It's not an exclusive club God is creating here.
Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Molly... :HeartThrob:
I knew you would like that one from Molly Sparrow. You're such a sensitive bird. Glad you are on my side!!!! I know if I have any trouble getting into 'Heaven' I'll have someone fighting on my behalf from the 'inside'!!!!
cp
Quote from: claypot on August 18, 2009, 08:03:55 PM
I knew you would like that one from Molly Sparrow. You're such a sensitive bird. Glad you are on my side!!!! I know if I have any trouble getting into 'Heaven' I'll have someone fighting on my behalf from the 'inside'!!!!
cp
:laughing7:
:high5:
Well, we got through that one.......speaking of the cog-man. What a whirlwind but a good one I think although I hope its like doesn't appear again for a while, I'm tuckered!!!!
cp
Quote from: claypot on August 18, 2009, 11:01:30 PM
Well, we got through that one.......speaking of the cog-man. What a whirlwind but a good one I think although I hope its like doesn't appear again for a while, I'm tuckered!!!!
cp
I agree, "whew"!
This fellow came here thinking he would DEBUNK the Scriptural truth of the Salvation of All, and met with much more than he thought he would.
It is good for us to reach into our hearts and meet the challenges of such as COG... It just may be that he is on the trail to the truth, and his visitation here wasn't as much for us, as ...for him!
Let us keep him on our prayer list, ...that his ferevent dedication may be soon found upon the truthful pathway, which leads one,
OUT of BABYLON...
I visit an "ET" forum ("J." is there too)... and just stand for
UR in the discussions, never trying to "persuade"... just noting the Scriptures which support the Salvation of All, and thereby enable (non-discussing) readers to make observation of it... God decides all of our "pathways", in the end... :bgdance: :thumbsup:
...willieH :HeartThrob:
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 18, 2009, 04:20:07 AM
Hey Looking up,
Which is it you believe:
God can't save ALL His creation or
God won't save all His creation
COG: All things are possible with God. He is all powerful. God can save all creation, but chooses not to.
The concept of God's chosen people is first found in the Old Testament. God chose Israel as His special people. "And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them; and He brought you out of Egypt with His Presence, with His mighty power" (Deuteronomy 4:37). "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth" (Deuteronomy 7:6 // Deuteronomy 14:2).
The election of physical Israel was but a sign of a higher spiritual election on the basis, not of the lineage of Abraham, but of the faith of Abraham. This was God's plan even before the creation of the world. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:3-6).
he can but won't so you then say that he does not love all of his works as he created some with the foreknowledge tht they would suffer eternally in the lof...
his mercies then are not infinite nor over all of his works and he does willingly afflict the children of men, he will cast off forever....
lee100, cog and chosenofgod37 and truchristian17
he kept saying he not connect to any of them
Does he realized that he mocking himself and lived a lied and lied about who he is...
does that sound like a hypocrise?
Quote from: willieH on August 18, 2009, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: claypot on August 18, 2009, 11:01:30 PM
Well, we got through that one.......speaking of the cog-man. What a whirlwind but a good one I think although I hope its like doesn't appear again for a while, I'm tuckered!!!!
cp
I agree, "whew"!
This fellow came here thinking he would DEBUNK the Scriptural truth of the Salvation of All, and met with much more than he thought he would.
It is good for us to reach into our hearts and meet the challenges of such as COG... It just may be that he is on the trail to the truth, and his visitation here wasn't as much for us, as ...for him!
Let us keep him on our prayer list, ...that his ferevent dedication may be soon found upon the truthful pathway, which leads one, OUT of BABYLON...
I visit an "ET" forum ("J." is there too)... and just stand for UR in the discussions, never trying to "persuade"... just noting the Scriptures which support the Salvation of All, and thereby enable (non-discussing) readers to make observation of it... God decides all of our "pathways", in the end... :bgdance: :thumbsup:
...willieH :HeartThrob:
Brother Bill, we've fought the good fight there, bro.
Let's keep it up.