question

[sheila]

 I think maybe I don't............  there were many in Israel that had a revelation of Yahwey that were

carnal and warlike,too.

   I think love is a heart knowing..not so much a 'head' knowing. anyone who loves is born of God.

   Man with a loving heart..is the image and Likeness of God.

[Seth]

You didn't understand my point, then why did you react so strongly against it?

[sheila]

strongly?

[sheila]

re; what is the difference that we are to be able to discern that native Indians who believe in the Great

  Spirit have had a revelation of God?  Love.  that is how we know.

[Seth]

So we can tell, not through belief, but love?

[sheila]

God is Love.If you see a loving nature in someone..that is  of God"s spirit in them. good[God] evil in all men

     

[Seth]

So professed belief alone is not the true indicator, I guess...we can tell by the fruit. BTW I believe both are necessary, belief in Christ and fruit.

[Seth]

My point is that it seems faith alone is enough for Christians, but for Buddhists we are looking at fruit/love.

[sheila]

 I have heard it said..that such as these have no problem with Jesus Christ...but dealing with those who

follow Him seems to be the problem. What is it now,34,000 christian denominations?. No wonder they

don't know.

[Seth]

It just seems (and I am NOT saying anyone in particular believes this exactly) that whenever I encounter pluralism UR, they are constantly looking at the FRUIT of the unbeliever as EVIDENCE of the SPIRIT. But then when you have a conversation about faith + fruit, suddenly it's legalistic to say you need both, and that faith alone is the key thing for that. I just don't get that.

[eaglesway]

The problem imo is we think too much. As a disciple i am to bear witness to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He is Messiah of All.

I cannot sort out every issue. I cannot make up for what hypocrites do or have done.

I am bearing witness to the mystery, testifying to the plan of God.

I know Who that plan is from and Who has done the work and When it was finished.

When Jesus breathed His last breath it was done. Since then the entire creation is being gathered into one in Christ.

Since then it is the good news that God was inChrist reconiciling the world unto Himself...the gospel of Jesus Christ, that is destroying the works of the devil.

People seem to claim the discerment to recognize a love that transcends the love of Jesus on the cross.That is where He was given the name above every name, for having the love above every love.

Will we bevwilling to suffer rejection for declaringvthat name? We are not called to offer "universal love". We are called as heralds of the Coming King. We are also calledvto walk in that love, but part of walkingvinbit is continuing to insist...against all odds andvevery voice to the contrary that Jesus Christ is Lord and Redeemer and Restorer.

We are not called to justify former voices. We are not called to"sort out" believers of other ways. God has made provision for justice and mercy for all from every age. That is His business. Our business is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ to all.

That is why this site exists. That is our focus.

I for one, am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the power of God unto salvationvfor all those who believe.

[Seth]

It's like the message I get is, "That Buddhist is a loving person, he has the Spirit. Me? What a wretched man am I, so my belief in Jesus alone works for me." Seems like a double standard. What about the Buddhist that sees that message on this forum? He's to come away with the notion that he doesn't have to abandon false gods, just continue being a loving person. While the Christian can just say I believe and that's enough.

[eaglesway]

It's like the message I get is, "That Buddhist is a loving person, he has the Spirit. Me? What a wretched man am I, so my belief in Jesus alone works for me." Seems like a double standard. What about the Buddhist that sees that message on this forum? He's to come away with the notion that he doesn't have to abandon false gods, just continue being a loving person. While the Christian can just say I believe and that's enough.

To me that doesnt matter. Christians believe and follow Jesus because they belueve. A Budhist person will understand disciplship better than most easy believism Christians. I personally thinkvthere are overlappingvteachings between the two.

So what?

I am a discipl of the Lord Jesus.. I am declaring reconiliation in His name snd making disciples as He commanded. Calling all to enterHis Way.... The way of the cross.

[Seth]

A Budhist person will understand disciplship better than most easy believism Christians.

Easy believism is an interesting way of putting it. And I agree. But among pluralistic UR believers there tends to be another standard they place on themselves than the one on the Buddhist, and that may not matter to you, but it does to me. Double standards are unfair and confusing.

[eaglesway]

Jesus defined love by the cross and called His disciples to take it up. If we teach the Way...we are disciples of His.  I personally dont see anyvother gospel. Salvation is entering the Way. We enter by grace through faith, but that is an entrance upon a path...not a final destination.

[eaglesway]

A Budhist person will understand disciplship better than most easy believism Christians.

Easy believism is an interesting way of putting it. And I agree. But among pluralistic UR believers there tends to be another standard they place on themselves than the one on the Buddhist, and that may not matter to you, but it does to me. Double standards are unfair and confusing.

Sure is. And we just confuse it more with subjective discussion(imo). Paul said the wisdom of God ordained foolish people with a foolish message to confound tge wise and mighty. I believe the Holy Spirit bears witness to the simple truths and sorts it out for allvthose with ears to hear and an honest heart. So I have a lot of faith in the core message of Jesus and the apostles......faith and discipleship. I hav much less faith in our intellectual and philosophical and theological disputations and explanations. 😊

[eaglesway]

And i am not trying to b cute. I know Budhists understand work. They are essentially under law. It is adifferent law, but their salvation is in their own hands.

What they dont understand- or accept is a personal, pro-active God who cares,and who is "ThePotter" to "clay".

Therefore, there is no place where a Budhist, as a Budhist, meets Christ and remains Budhist. The gospel is really pretty streamlined, and kept "in Christ" does the sorting on its own- at the cross.(imo)

[Seth]

So I have a lot of faith in the core message of Jesus and the apostles......faith and discipleship. I hav much less faith in our intellectual and philosophical and theological disputations and explanations.

I agree but what else are going to do on a discussion forum but discuss?  :laughing7:

[jabcat]

anybody who acts loving knows God?  I don't buy it.  We only know God by coming to Him through belief in His Son, Jesus Christ crucified and risen again.

I'm truly surprised at some of what I'm reading.

[eaglesway]

So I have a lot of faith in the core message of Jesus and the apostles......faith and discipleship. I hav much less faith in our intellectual and philosophical and theological disputations and explanations.

I agree but what else are going to do on a discussion forum but discuss?  :laughing7:

:laughing7:

Yes indeed, what else ?

Really all I am trying to say is that as we discuss, the answers remain within that core. The questions are legitimate, I just think the answers to some of them can only be to trust the plain statements of scripture. It is all covered in Christ, so we can have confidence in Him, and who He says He is, and who the apostles and prophets say He is.

When things get to complicated for my wee brain I am happy that I can trust the scriptures.

[jabcat]

I believe any statement used in isolation such as "anyone who loves knows God", must be placed in context of the rest of scripture, namely, Jesus is THE WAY.

[eaglesway]

I agree. Love is a word that can have many meanings. Jesus defined love. No true love will reject Him or His message- that we need Him to love, and His cross to disarm the self-life, His blood to overflow our selfishness, His Spirit to lead our hearts in His way.

I do not confuse that with Christian religion or any other religion. Only He knows who is truly in the Way.

[jabcat]

Same with works, goodness, kindness, "great person", any of that.  I believe if it's out of the context of "Jesus saves, is the only way, and only He is my righteousness", then it's just "that's nice, wish more people could be like that".  But it doesn't save.   (IMO)

[Seth]

Totally agree  :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Actually, I think a lot of UR leaning people are still afraid of hellism, and how God wil judge the ignorant, but imo there is no need for such concern. God is just and faithful and knows every heart. Those who rejoice to see Him when they awake before Him in the Day will immediatley bow the knee and confess His Lordship. That is when they will be "saved". The only way to recieve salvation in this age, and become a citizen of the kingdom of God, is through the name of Jesus Christ. "For there is no other name given among men whereby you must be saved."

There will be NO question about what name is the name above every name come the Day.