On Fred Phelps passing

[Seth]

Today Fred Phelps passed away, the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, the gang who taught the world that there is no hope and no redemption, save for their little church. I feel a bittersweetness about it. Bitter being a sadness regarding how he used his instruments for evil. A sweetness because I feel love for him. The world tells me to hate him.

I remember I was talking to my pastor about universal salvation and of course Hitler is always the first thing that comes up. I said to my pastor that I loved Hitler and I saw my pastor wince at the suggestion. It sounds anti-semitic somehow. I didn't really know if I believed it, that I had love for Hitler but I knew I was supposed to love my enemies.

Now I understand it more, I had to grow into it.

I feel sad for his family, I feel sad for the destruction that his efforts led to, defacing his name and his memory with his works. I feel sad for those he hurt and for those who want to hurt him back.

It just makes me wish more for the coming of the Lord with a shout.

[anna274]

Yes, I, too am saddened...yet rejoicing in the TRUTH that Mr. Phelps, and all those he hurt and all those who hurt him and want to hurt him are included in the ALL of "...Jesus Christ Savior of ALL men..."  in Adam ALL die, in Christ ALL shall live...

re:  ...wish more for the coming of the Lord with a shout

I've been praying, meditating Psalm 67 using LAW's commentary

Psalm 67: 5-7
Let the people praise You, O God; let ALL the people praise You. THEN shall the earth yield her increase; and God, even our own God, shall bless us.  God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear Him.!

bless=In Christ shall all nations be blessed

LAW'S COMMENTARY

Again and again shall prayer ascend for the ingathering... all into Christ.  The blessing is promised, and no rest should be given until the happy consummation comes, ..."God shall bless us, and all the ends of the earth shall fear Him."  Who can conceive the blessings which Christ Jesus bestows...  How can we adequately love and bless and praise and adore Him!  Let us go forth in faith, and ponder the coming wonders of His reign.  Let our lips often cry (shout)
"Come, Lord Jesus, come quickly."

[jabcat]

Good posts.

[Ross]

Also interesting that Christ says woe to the Pharisees and the scribes who strain out a gnat to swallow a camel.

Prophesies like Jeremiah 25;34 " Wail you shepherds and cry; and roll around in ashes you principal ones of the flock. For the days of slaughter and your dispersions have fully come and you shall be dashed into pieces like a choice vessel.[35] and the shepherds will have no where to flee, nor the principal ones of the flock any means for escape. [36] A voice! The cry of the shepherds and the wailing of the principal ones of the flock! For the Lord is laying to waste their pasture."

Jer 27;14 " So do not listen to your false prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your soothsayers, your sorcerers, who say to you, You shall not serve your king of Babylon [15] for I have NOT sent them, says the Lord, but they are prophesying falsely IN MY NAME. It will only end when I drive you out to perish with them who prophesy to you."

Without true knowledge of the resurrection this is oppressive.
True love sets us free from that oppression.

[Lazarus Short]

It's fitting that the "Hitler" thread should be running at this time, for Fred Phelps is in just the same position, and all of us, really:  a sinner saved by Grace.  He will be corrected and redeemed.

Other than that, I see the whole WBC situation as the logical result of the Hell theory - a bad place [thank God it doesn't exist!] and bad theology.

[Seth]

For me, I think about how we are all birthed into this world at the mercy of society and the flesh, and hopefully we have good parents that love us and treat us well, don't beat us or call us names. I see Fred as someone whose actions cannot be justified, but also as someone wandering the earth, doing what he thinks makes sense according to what he was given, which isn't much.

We are all people, and it is very hard to be a person. It really makes sense "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do." Nobody really knows what they are doing. They "ought to know better" and in a sense I agree, but in a larger sense, nobody really knows. We are all knocking into eachother bouncing around this universe trying to make some sense of it. I am so glad that Christ is such a dependable anchor.

[Seth]

I hope nobody is offended by this, but while compared to animals we are highly intelligent and sensitive beings, compared to God we are like dumb atoms knocking into eachother, causing damage and bouncing the other way knocking into something else. I think this is why we need him so much.

[Tapioca]

For me, I think about how we are all birthed into this world at the mercy of society and the flesh, and hopefully we have good parents that love us and treat us well, don't beat us or call us names. I see Fred as someone whose actions cannot be justified, but also as someone wandering the earth, doing what he thinks makes sense according to what he was given, which isn't much.

We are all people, and it is very hard to be a person. It really makes sense "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do." Nobody really knows what they are doing. They "ought to know better" and in a sense I agree, but in a larger sense, nobody really knows. We are all knocking into eachother bouncing around this universe trying to make some sense of it. I am so glad that Christ is such a dependable anchor.

I think that's quite profound, actually, Seth.

[Seth]

Thanks Tapioca. It's hard to put into words

[micah7:9]

The brother had knowledge only from doctrine teaching and that doctrine teaching was to hate and in the words of the POTUS...PERIOD. This brother and all the folks he was allowed to delude by his speaches, which I consider ugly, is an example(whether perfect I can't say) but an example how hate of the bretheren...aka human beings,  spoken from the (pulpit...why do I laugh) with the guise and covering of Jesus Christ, that is do hate one another rather than love, I find paramount in what is called religion and theology today. I will and am given to pray for the brother, he was ill and needed healing. :dsunny:

[Seth]

There is always opportunity for change. I saw both of these girls on a documentary about the church and it looks like since then they have both left. I honestly haven't enjoyed a newspaper article this much in a long time. I wish I could talk to them both it looks like they are ready for universal salvation

https://medium.com/reporters-notebook/d63ecca43e35

[eaglesway]

I think the question of evil, and accountability for evil works, is just too deep for (human)words.

".....and the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep, and the spirit of God moved upon the waters, and God said, "Let there be light, and there was light." Gen. 1:2

"But we have denounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness or handling the word of God deceitfully, but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel is hid it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the god of this world has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe to keep the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, the image of God from shining upon them. For we proclaim not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness has shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2 Cor. 4:2-6

[UniversalSceptic]

There is always opportunity for change. I saw both of these girls on a documentary about the church and it looks like since then they have both left. I honestly haven't enjoyed a newspaper article this much in a long time. I wish I could talk to them both it looks like they are ready for universal salvation

https://medium.com/reporters-notebook/d63ecca43e35

Unfortunately Jesus did say that if you want to preach the gospel and follow him you would have to face condemnation before the masses, but I trust The Lord will keep a careful watch over Megan and if she maintains her faith she will be reborn anew.

[Seth]

That's true, but there is always redemption and forgiveness for those who ask for it. At this point, I don't think Megan considers herself a teacher anymore.

[UniversalSceptic]

That's true, but there is always redemption and forgiveness for those who ask for it. At this point, I don't think Megan considers herself a teacher anymore.

No she probably doesn't consider herself a teacher anymore, but the rejection that she faces for her beliefs falls in line with God talking about his followers being persecuted.

[Seth]

Pretty much.

Matt 10
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.