Tentmaker Forum

willieH: Hi my dear friends...  :cloud9:

The last few days, the Lord has been speaking a particular verse in my ear, lets see whatcha think!  :happygrin:

In my observation, one of the passages that shouts of the SALVATION of the ENTIRE CREATION and supports UR, the loudest (at least to me), is one that doesn't in particular, ...speak of it ...at all! 

Might I call it:




As JESUS preached, just before the PASSOVER... (John 6:4) a multitude (about 5000 - John 6:10) was gathered to hear Him...

JESUS said to Phillip:  ..."Whence shall we buy bread that these may eat"? (John 6:5)

And immediately, the Apostles, became overwhelmed concerning the needs of this large crowd for food!  As they milled over the possibilities which looked quite bleak...

Andrew (vs 9) volunteered that there was a boy present, which had FIVE barley loaves, and TWO SMALL fishes... but in the same breath noted the insignificance of this small amount of food, as compared to the eating requirements of the 5K+, which were in attendance.

Though I am not certainly expert in this, I have understood that only MEN were counted in gatherings (can't remember where I read this), and so this crowd in actuality was likely TWICE or even more, the size of the number noted... which included women and children, which were not considered by the "size" noted...  That is somewhat irrelevant, as 5 loaves of bread and 2 small fish, would hardly begin to feed even 5000!

John 6:12-13 

12  when they were FILLED He said unto His disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that NOTHING BE LOST.

13  therefore they gathered them together, and filled TWELVE baskets with the fragments of the FIVE barley loaves, which remained, OVER and ABOVE unto them that had eaten...

Concerning UR and the RECONCILIATION of the ENTIRE CREATION, this text notes that JESUS had concern about the remaining (perishable) FOOD.  The word noted "LOST" in this verse is APOLLUMI... which means total destruction, and is used in the Parables in Luke 15 of the LOST sheep, the LOST coin, and the LOST son... as well as the mission of CHRIST in Luke 19:10... to seek and to SAVE that which is LOST...

Zeroing in on JESUS notation that NOTHING be LOST (destroyed/wasted)... I see His concern over waste... even concerning food...

If He were not willing that food be wasted, how can we even consider that anything which has been given LIFE, would be wasted? 

And found to be of LESS IMPORTANCE than food, ...and OUTSIDE of the concern of CHRIST, which said concern extended to the waste (destruction) of even food?

I'd like to ask for thoughts on this from you guys... I noticed in this that TWELVE baskets were salvaged over and above the need, and the two elements of food (5 loaves and 2 fishes) noted the number SEVEN...

Do any of you see a particular significance that these two SPIRITUAL numbers (7 & 12) might represent in this story?

I was thinking there were two different elements, ...the 5 loaves (crowd=humanity) represented need, and the 2 fishes (Father & Son) represented the filling of that need maybe?  :dontknow:

One thing I DO see here, (Rom 5:20) ...is that where SIN abounds GRACE does MUCH MORE abound!  ...SIN requiring a NEED... GRACE providing MORE than is necessary in filling that NEED!   :boogie:

And the SEVEN elements (5 loaves + 2 small fishes), not only saw to the NEED but resulted in TWELVE baskets of ABUNDANCE...

Anyone find other interesting things in this story?   :declare:

Whatcha think?   :JCThink:

Much  :HeartThrob:  and...

All I'll add right now until I've had a chance to hear from God is that it's definitely the Holy Spirit that's been picking on you about that particular verse 'cause that's come up with absolutely everything for me this summer:  "Gather up the fragments that nothing be lost."  Very, very few people that I've emailed or PMed recently where that particular verse hasn't come up in some way as a principle of the Kingdom.  Whether I was on something frivolous on the possibility of ending poverty with Time Travel technology or on just about every other subject that you could think of, that verse is right there in my heart, mouth, typing, etc.  Somewhere, somehow, it's constantly been squeezing itself in.

Certainly speaks to me Willie, oh what I could do with this point you bring out. Evidence of the Spirit sharing, it speaks to me. Where there is not enough bread, Jesus will stretch the avialible resources, to more than cover the whole of humanity.

Very well said.. And I am fed by it too.

Peace.

Where are you Rosey :icon_flower:

Hi Brud.

5 loaves of Barley ( bread = HIM His Body) denotes 5 =Grace where the Churches are HELD in the RIGHT hand( 5 fingers) mentioned In Rev.

Normally  FISH are very much Likened to man, recall the post on Levi-athon, wheres Those in the OLD C live in the WATERS beneath.




Deu 4:14  And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.


Deu 4:15  Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day [that] the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:


Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,


Deu 4:17  The likeness of any beast that [is] on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,


Deu 4:18  The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that [is] in the waters beneath the earth


Psa 105:29 He turned their waters into blood, and slew their fish.


likened again when Christ says to the Firshermen..I will make fishers OF MEN.

Fish therefore likened to our very flesh....IM beginning to see the Fish has  to be Cooked( cleansed) ...that which is roasted over the Coals  , the first laying Down His life for us  Christ bieng the, similtude of CLEANSED  fish...which COULD    BE A SIMILTUDE ,  OF The Blood which Cleanses US.


which could result in the Body and Blood =7 completion.....

noted here.

Jhn 21:9  As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.





Jhn 21:12  Jesus saith unto them, Come [and] dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.


Jhn 21:13  Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


Luk 24:41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?


Luk 24:42  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

Luk 24:43  And he took [it], and did eat before them.

Luk 24:44  And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me

Luk 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


Luk 24:46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


Luk 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Luk 24:48  And ye are witnesses of these things

Mat 7:8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mat 7:9  Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Law


Mat 7:10  Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? Law





Note this Whille By comparison..5 disciples


Jhn 21:2  There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the [sons] of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.

we Know they were called to Be fishers OF MEN. again i see a similtude bro...

Night is compared to Darkness = LAW..

agaim More LAW v Grace and Truth


Jhn 21:3  Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.

Christ the MORNING Star rising in our hearts

Jhn 21:4  But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.


again Children Those still under law
Jhn 21:5  Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.

Cast to the RIGHT,...153 DENOTE ..100 children of FAITH..50..HOLY SPIRIT( PENTECOST)..3 COMPLETION
Jhn 21:6  And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

If you read my posts wille again we see Peter used at this Time as one who realies on HIS OWN strength( flesh) as one under LAW...Note he was naked, ansd cast Himself back in the SEA,back to THE SEA BENEATH

Jhn 21:7  Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt [his] fisher's coat [unto him], (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.


Jhn 21:8  And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.


Jhn 21:9  As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.


Jhn 21:10  Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.


Jhn 21:11  Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken. NOTHING WAS lost


Jhn 21:12  Jesus saith unto them, Come [and] dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

I see hearbro, before the disciple become apostles they to need to be cleansed BEFORE the feed HIS SHEEP..

everything in ORDER.


Jhn 21:13  Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


Jhn 21:14  This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

Jhn 21:15  So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.


Jhn 21:16  He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


Jhn 21:17  He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


Jhn 21:18  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not.


Jhn 21:19  This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.


Now wheres that Rosiebud.....

Later bro

Oh twelve normally is symbolic of the Beginning of Govenment, which Im sure Craig will agree divine govenment completed at 14

Blessings
T

QuoteOne thing I DO see here, (Rom 5:20) ...is that where SIN abounds GRACE does MUCH MORE abound!  ...SIN requiring a NEED... GRACE providing MORE than is necessary in filling that NEED!

Amen Bro.

 

  Ah Bro T , ya did a  great Job , willie too  hee hee :)

   me is happy lol ,

   the fish gate  Nun = "fish" or "posterity"continue, to increase, propagate

1) father of Joshua/Jesus  the successor of Moses
seeing  the  fish as hope in man '' favorable and confident expectation"

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
seems the hope is also the increase of Gods  SPIRIT  of truth and  grace
& glory revealed  to us and in us/mankind  revealing the WORKS OF   salvation though Jesus Christ :)

1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

  I saw this Isa 50:2 Wherefore, when I came, [was there] no man? when I called, [was there] none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because [there is] no water, and dieth for thirst.
  their hope   faith,increase  /fish  stink ? :mshock:

1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
  a little on the fishes 
  the Bread of Heaven  is also awesome
  the barley  was for the poor in spirit to be fed/filled  . Barley bread was used by the poorer people ( Jdg 7:13; 2Ki 4:42)

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; and the rest of Col  1   
its good food for the hungry soul /spirit

  you guys are on it !!  way to go   :HeartThrob:
love in Christ rose

Hey Sis Thanks,... :bgdance:

Fish gate..yeah...i missed that ,you have so much to share....GOOD WORD SIS :icon_flower:

Blessings
Gramster

  oh  :mblush:  I dont want to talk bro just to be talking  hee hee
i was moved by your compassion and 
thanks so much  for the encouragment ,   i love that you care  !
ps  heard from Kimmy yesterday , she called   :happy3:I love her sweet spirit  so :HeartThrob: as you do as well we talked  of you also,
and   many
  good things of the Lord's sure mercies
    and ol Martin  and Mickel ,  good thoughts as well 
thanks to all whom have shared so far 
love in CHRIST  ..rose

Posted by WillieH

'"Do any of you see a particular significance that these two SPIRITUAL numbers (7 & 12) might represent in this story?"

I think that the 12 baskets represent the disciples.

John 6 12 "Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost"

John 6 39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that all he hath GIVEN me I should lose nothing"

And then later on:

John 17 12 "...those that thou GAVEST me I have kept, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition that the scripture might be fulfilled"

If the 12 baskets represents the 12 disciples, then is it also true that the 5 thousand (the world) will be treated the same as the disciples and also be saved? It seems to suggest that since the 12 baskets of bread came from the crowd.         

Quote from: Andrew on August 30, 2019, 06:34:44 PM
Posted by WillieH

'"Do any of you see a particular significance that these two SPIRITUAL numbers (7 & 12) might represent in this story?"

I think that the 12 baskets represent the disciples.

John 6 12 "Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost"

John 6 39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that all he hath GIVEN me I should lose nothing"

And then later on:

John 17 12 "...those that thou GAVEST me I have kept, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition that the scripture might be fulfilled"

If the 12 baskets represents the 12 disciples, then is it also true that the 5 thousand (the world) will be treated the same as the disciples and also be saved? It seems to suggest that since the 12 baskets of bread came from the crowd.       

I like that! Sounds good to me! Logical.. I always know/get the feeling when I read them there's some sort of significance in the numbers..

:iagree:  :Chinscratch: Other things in His Word have the micro and the macro.. like prophecy, and like Israel is micro of the world when God says "for a moment I hid my face.. but..." - And I can't remember the rest... :gsmile:

for me, just one of the examples that can be seen is:

7 = perfection
12 = government or governing body

in short, that the perfect government/governing body is the one that feeds the world with the bread of life

Quote from: jugghead on September 03, 2019, 01:43:50 AM
for me, just one of the examples that can be seen is:

7 = perfection
12 = government or governing body

in short, that the perfect government/governing body is the one that feeds the world with the bread of life

Awesome! I think you're onto something there! Especially how feeding the world the bread of life.. is its healing..
:gsmile:

P.S. - to be continued during the millennium age and during the judgment (age?)