new hell testimony and it seems legit...please help

[CHB]

Hi Marie,

You said,

"And lately! I TRULY think translators mistook fiery EARTHLY prophecies concerning man's modern (fiery) capabilities, for the olde pagan 'hell' myths! Especially as LOF is mentioned -1- at Jesus' return during (fiery) Armageddon; and even bigger, at the "all in all" event when Father God becomes all in all.. But the verse says those not written in the book of life at that time would go to the LOF, but after being raised from your grave ("tomb") and experiencing what surely will have to be a long 'day' of judgment/REVIEW of all history.. who's not going to "believe" (and thus "have life" and be enrolled in the book) after all that!? Except for the grace of God there would be any of us.."

I was thinking about this yesterday and an idea came to mind. I wonder if the LOF isn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Matt. 3:11  Luke 3:16 .  When one is baptized, they are baptized in water,... lake, river,....What if the baptism by fire is the lake of fire mentioned in Rev. The lake of fire is the second death, therefore when one is baptized the old is washed away and the new clean man emerges...death of the old, birth of the new. In (Rev. 21:8) all of these things that man cannot overcome will be washed away by the baptism of the holy spirit which MAYbe in the lake of fire.   I say "may be" because this is just something I have been thinking about. What if the LOF is a baptism of fire that will destroy sin and renew man? Just my thoughts.

Sorry, I don't get to post much but I read every chance I get.

CHB

[Andrew]

posted by Shev

" Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?"

Interestingly enough this is how I have heard ET believers explain what will take place in Heaven - your memories of loved ones who are in hell will be wiped from your memory.     

[eaglesway]

What does a fundamentalist/literalist do with, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"?  If Jesus is able to leave the majority of the creation in hell eternally, Where is his victory?

If Jesus isnt being literal there then no one can take anything else as literal either.

If someone believes the Bible is inerrant, how do they deal with, "Behold I am making all things new?"

How can he make all things new if most things are in hell, in torment, forever?

There are sooooo many scriptures that teach the restoration of all things.

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

According to Paul, the only thing that will not be put under Messiah's feet is the Father. When all things are under His feet- death will be undone/destroyed/anulled. Why?

Because death is caused by sin and when all things are subjected to Jesus all things will be subject to His love and God will be ALL IN ALL!

Aint it beautiful?  :dsunny:

[marie glen]

:gsmile: ..It sure is! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob: :cloud9:

[CindyinSD]

CHB above likened the LOF to a possible Holy Spirit baptism. Among all the profound and loving things brought out from God's treasure house here, this one in particular caught my eye—chiefly because I have had similar thoughts. First I want to point out that almost everywhere in scripture, fire symbolizes purification. The sacrifice on the altar is purified by fire as the ashes are left behind and the smoke (spirit) ascends to God as a pleasing aroma. Silver is tested/refined in a furnace made of earth, purified seven times. Those whose deeds are corrupt will experience the destruction of those impure deeds by fire and thus they are saved, but saved as through the fire. Notice the word "as". These are all metaphors, as is the LOF. There are many valid ways to see the LOF and this symbol of God's loving correction has too many facets for my tiny mind to even imagine. This is my favorite:

The bronze Laver of the wilderness Tabernacle was crafted from the bronze mirrors donated by the women who worked to create the elaborate curtains and other draperies of the Tabernacle. Its purpose was to hold the consecrated water in which the priests must wash and purify themselves before entering the Holy Place and (once a year) the High Priest, before he entered the Holy of Holies.

Bronze symbolizes judgment. Mirrors symbolize seeing oneself as one truly is. The water in the laver is emblematic of purification. When Solomon built the permanent Temple, he caused a Bronze Sea to be built as the larger and more magnificent Laver. I think the Laver/Sea (among other equally valid symbolism) foreshadows the LOF. It is a place for purification prior to entering the felt presence of God. Of course it is the Spirit who effects this purification, and She is often symbolized by fire (and by many other things).

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" to those still outside the City (the location of the LOF). Who, at this point, remains outside the City if not the as-yet unregenerate? "And whoever is thirsty, let him come and drink freely of the Water of Life!" they urge. Who is still thirsty? Not those already in the City of God. The inmates of the LOF, being judged by their own hearts (the bronze mirrors) and purified by the fire of God (the Holy Spirit) are invited and urged to drink freely of the Water of Life. When they are thirsty they will come.

I don't know how long (if length of time even has any meaning in the immediate presence of God) it may take those in the LOF before they see themselves truly enough to truly repent. I do believe it will be agonizing, as any unpleasant self-revelation is. I do NOT believe the fire is literal. Certainly that would be out of character with our Good Father, and not conducive to any genuine repentance. The purification is real, but the fire is not a mere chemical reaction producing heat. This fire is the actual Holy fire, the terrible and beautiful eternal Spirit of God.

My thoughts on the matter... there are many other ways to see and understand these things and lots of valid thoughts on the topic—hopefully including those that I have shared here.

[ChiniChani]

Andrew, I'm so sorry I took this long to respond. I asked someone I know to translate Laurie's testimony, and I hope this can help you. Again, I'm sorry I waited so long, and I'll probably pay for that delay, if I haven't already. You can see how long it took me as this was sent around the Holidays. >.< And it was my own fault.

I don't know if you believe in everything this man has said to me (he was responding to my own and his beliefs, which is extremely similar to Christian Universalism in my opinion, but with a few subtle differences. We both believe in UR though, which is what matters.), but at the very least I hope it'll bring you some form of closure. I'm struggling through the exact same fear and pain as you are, and I need stuff like this constantly day-to-day to keep myself in check. I pretty much just lost my composure in a recent post I made. So I can relate to you entirely.

"Dear Bristol,

I watched two YouTube videos about Laurie Ditto and here are my notes:

(1)  Laurie Ditto claims she witnessed heaven and hell during prayer.
       Once again, this is a Charismatic's attempt to "save souls" regardless
       of the truth. In other words, the ends justifies the means with her.
       She mentions speaking in tongues which is how I know she's Charismatic.
       There is no NDE involved with her experience -- it's only her imagination.

Concerning false experiences such as Ditto's, the Bible mentions them
as follows:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep?s clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15)

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate
each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."
(Matthew 24:10-12)

"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great
signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." (Matthew 24:24)

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to
him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or
alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us -- whether by a prophecy or
by word of mouth or by letter -- asserting that the day of the Lord has already
come." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2)

"And then the lawless one (Antichrist) will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus
will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor
of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with
how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs
and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives
those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth
and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so
that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have
not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:8-12)

(2)  Ditto describes "the Father" (God) in the form of a human like Jesus.
       This is a big mistake. God is life, love and light. God is not a man:

"God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should
change his mind." (Numbers 23:19)

"Do not say, ?We have found wisdom; let God, not a man, refute him.'" (Job 32:13)

"For I am God, and not a man -- the Holy One among you." (Hosea 11:9)

(3)  When people meet Jesus in heaven, they have a "life review" because that
      is Jesus' job. Ditto experienced no life review.

(4)  Ditto mentions seeing angels in heaven with wings. Angels don't have
       wings according to the NDE literature.
(Bristol's note: They don't have them in Biblical literature either)

(5)  She claims the Bible is literally true which is impossible.

(6)  Once again, like other false testimony, she sees Christians in hell.
       Such testimony elevates Ditto to a "super-Christian". A total lie.
       Ditto sees Christians in hell "for not obeying Jesus." But Christians
       are not perfect, just forgiven. Jesus paid for all sins and God will
       not require Christians to pay for the same sins that Jesus paid for.
     
(7)  She claims hell is physical heat and physical pain. This is false.
       The only pain in hell is mental and not physical.

(8)  She claims holiness is loving and obeying Jesus. But Jesus taught
       that loving God and other people is the way to eternal life (Luke 10:25-28)

(9)  Ditto claims there is no way out of hell. But Jesus went to hell already to
       set people free (see "The Harrowing of Hell" on Wikipedia). There
      is no time in the afterlife, so Jesus has already freed everyone who wants
      to escape hell. Hell is actually kind of a "purgatory" - a temporary
      state of a "hellish" condition of the mind.

(10)  Ditto mentions that she was wearing red clothes in heaven. But people
         who have actually been to heaven normally are not fixated on what they
         are wearing. In the very, very few instances where NDErs notice what they are
         wearing, it is always "heavenly" clothes made of un-Earthly material. Certainly
        not red.

You are quite correct in saying Ditto's experience doesn't pass the smell test.

Hope this helps.

Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!

-(censored)"

[GodIsLove]

 :thumbsup:

[rosered]

:thumbsup:

  :thumbsup:      :dsunny:    :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Why?  It is obviously not. - Why waste time on utter nonsense?
Why throw pearls to swine who are not yet ready for pearls?

Do you sort of people never mature in the faith or grow up (common sense)?

Why keep regurgitating the same stuff that has been covered over and over again?
Tell them to do some study if they claim they love God so much or direct them to old articles that people have written tirelessly year in year out dedicating their lives to deal with this sort of thing!

Are you a troll out to waste people's time; preventing them from advancing in the faith? It's the only reason I can see for people to be constantly regurgitating such nonsense.

Are we to do this every single time someone says they went to 'hell'? - Spend our time on a liar who is too lazy to study and out to cause harm spreading doubt fear and nonsense?

It's ridiculous.

Do grow up...It's not too late.

  Do you not realize that BABYLONS SPIRIT IS AT WORK HERE ?
 
and how much confusion is being done ?
  I believe that  GOD allows the suffering of her cup a double portion , heaven and earth to be   SUFFERING

  How else does one learn   GODS GRACE except   though the experiences  ?

you are robbing them of the experiences  brother , by provoking  many spirits to kill you and what good will that do  for GOD ?

THE HOLY SPIRIT FRUITS ARE  in Gal 5  "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

  there is no opposition  when these are all applied    to your message
  I love your provoking brother
  but many get offended over a WORD ..........
IT IS HIGH TIME ONE COMES OUT OF THE SLEEP OF ADAM EH ?Romans 13:11


?And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.?

SAVED from the wrath of  GOD  as Babylon  is going to  fail and fall BIG TIME

Come out of her my people  unless you  receive her plagues  , trying to  be graceful  here ,    and in all fairness there is truth in  some of this  stuff , not all truth !!!!!!!!!!!!   but some is better than none , if you get cut off ,there will be none .
I hope you can understand  offending and being offended has its own rewards,  fruits of doing  , working for the Lord  .....  brother if you are living it right , More power to you , but if you are like the rest of us sinners  here , have some mercy on us too!!!!!

I need to be lifted up daily , and being cut down low and wounded , makes    everyone go silent , as we have seen on this forum and also in the world 
do not cut off your nose to spite your face  , we need you here !   do not let your anger , the nose Strong's H639 - 'aph
אַף
Transliteration

'aph



masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)

From אָנַףּ (H599)

TWOT Reference

133a

Outline of Biblical Usage
1nostril, nose, face

2 anger

just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!!  allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire  ready to be consumed !




rev 18 Babylon is Fallen
?3All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.?


4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: ?Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.


5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.?

meat is for the body and body for the meat  BUT ......

  1 Cor 6 Members of Christ
12?Everything is permissible for me,? but not everything is beneficial.


?Everything is permissible for me,? but I will not be mastered by anything.


13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.

In the Body of CHRIST    YES but it is HIS DOING /work and not of ourselves , knowledge puffs up , like an ego puffs up only to be deflated  into a useless     bag that cannot hold old wine  or new wine as the wineskins  are offended

because of the sharp point of the Sword / Word .. and again must be made a new .. more pliable  and easily stretched out .

  the grace of God allows the room to grow in TRUTH AND GRACE ............LOVE IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL........

[777DROW-S]

, by provoking  many spirits to kill you and what good will that do  for GOD ?

THE HOLY SPIRIT FRUITS ARE  in Gal 5  "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

  there is no opposition  when these are all applied    to your message
  I love your provoking brother
  but many get offended over a WORD ..........
IT IS HIGH TIME ONE COMES OUT OF THE SLEEP OF ADAM EH ?Romans 13:11


?And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.?

SAVED from the wrath of  GOD  as Babylon  is going to  fail and fall BIG TIME

Come out of her my people  unless you  receive her plagues  , trying to  be graceful  here ,    and in all fairness there is truth in  some of this  stuff , not all truth !!!!!!!!!!!!   but some is better than none , if you get cut off ,there will be none .
I hope you can understand  offending and being offended has its own rewards,  fruits of doing  , working for the Lord  .....  brother if you are living it right , More power to you , but if you are like the rest of us sinners  here , have some mercy on us too!!!!!

I need to be lifted up daily , and being cut down low and wounded , makes    everyone go silent , as we have seen on this forum and also in the world 
do not cut off your nose to spite your face  , we need you here !   do not let your anger , the nose Strong's H639 - 'aph
אַף
Transliteration

'aph



masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)

From אָנַףּ (H599)

TWOT Reference

133a

Outline of Biblical Usage
1nostril, nose, face

2 anger

just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!!  allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire  ready to be consumed !




rev 18 Babylon is Fallen
?3All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.?


4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: ?Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.


5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.?

meat is for the body and body for the meat  BUT ......

  1 Cor 6 Members of Christ
12?Everything is permissible for me,? but not everything is beneficial.


?Everything is permissible for me,? but I will not be mastered by anything.


13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.

In the Body of CHRIST    YES but it is HIS DOING /work and not of ourselves , knowledge puffs up , like an ego puffs up only to be deflated  into a useless     bag that cannot hold old wine  or new wine as the wineskins  are offended

because of the sharp point of the Sword / Word .. and again must be made a new .. more pliable  and easily stretched out .

  the grace of God allows the room to grow in TRUTH AND GRACE ............LOVE IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL........

Yes...i certainly do see babylon's spirit at work in here Rose.

Which is why I am leaving.

I threw pearls to swine and the swine turned to 'rend' me.

When so called believers lie and others defend the liars instead of the one telling the truth then they are not believers at all.

And this is meant to be a website 'For God' (Truth) and clearly it is not as has been proven.

"By their fruits"...

you are robbing them of the experiences  brother , by provoking  many spirits to kill you and what good will that do  for GOD ?

Hey sorry.  Don't mind me.
Keep allowing people to believe wicked fables and turn from the truth and be utterly crushed by fear evil and lies.
That will be right.
I'm not your brother.
My brothers and sisters do the will of God.  I see very little of that here.

  I believe that  GOD allows the suffering of her cup a double portion , heaven and earth to be   SUFFERING

  How else does one learn   GODS GRACE except   though the experiences  ?

you are robbing them of the experiences  brother

Yeah, because we are not called to love and heal right? - Or to be a light to our fellow man - We are here to just let people suffer to 'help' them.
Rose are you feeling ok?  I'm serious. 

2 anger

just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!!  allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire  ready to be consumed !

Who is angry?  Obviously you since you brought it up. 
'Breathe' you say?
Do you actually think I'm angry?
I can assure you I'm not.
Some things make me angry.
Dealing with lies and hypocrisy and stupidity is water off a ducks back.

The rest of your speil isn't relevant to the conversation, just a mish-mash that hurts my eyes...and to be honest I'm not convinced in the slightest you even know half of what it all means.

13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.

??? And this is relevant to the conversation how?

See I don't have time for this!  It's ridiculous Rose...

I removed all my other posts because this place is like a local gossip hole, where everyone just waits on a stranger to say something so they can all pounce on him. - I'm not encouraging it.

Now I see why nobody comes here anymore ... It's 'fallen' alright.

[marie glen]

CHB above likened the LOF to a possible Holy Spirit baptism. Among all the profound and loving things brought out from God's treasure house here, this one in particular caught my eye—chiefly because I have had similar thoughts. First I want to point out that almost everywhere in scripture, fire symbolizes purification. The sacrifice on the altar is purified by fire as the ashes are left behind and the smoke (spirit) ascends to God as a pleasing aroma. Silver is tested/refined in a furnace made of earth, purified seven times. Those whose deeds are corrupt will experience the destruction of those impure deeds by fire and thus they are saved, but saved as through the fire. Notice the word "as". These are all metaphors, as is the LOF. There are many valid ways to see the LOF and this symbol of God's loving correction has too many facets for my tiny mind to even imagine. This is my favorite:

The bronze Laver of the wilderness Tabernacle was crafted from the bronze mirrors donated by the women who worked to create the elaborate curtains and other draperies of the Tabernacle. Its purpose was to hold the consecrated water in which the priests must wash and purify themselves before entering the Holy Place and (once a year) the High Priest, before he entered the Holy of Holies.

Bronze symbolizes judgment. Mirrors symbolize seeing oneself as one truly is. The water in the laver is emblematic of purification. When Solomon built the permanent Temple, he caused a Bronze Sea to be built as the larger and more magnificent Laver. I think the Laver/Sea (among other equally valid symbolism) foreshadows the LOF. It is a place for purification prior to entering the felt presence of God. Of course it is the Spirit who effects this purification, and She is often symbolized by fire (and by many other things).

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" to those still outside the City (the location of the LOF). Who, at this point, remains outside the City if not the as-yet unregenerate? "And whoever is thirsty, let him come and drink freely of the Water of Life!" they urge. Who is still thirsty? Not those already in the City of God. The inmates of the LOF, being judged by their own hearts (the bronze mirrors) and purified by the fire of God (the Holy Spirit) are invited and urged to drink freely of the Water of Life. When they are thirsty they will come.

I don't know how long (if length of time even has any meaning in the immediate presence of God) it may take those in the LOF before they see themselves truly enough to truly repent. I do believe it will be agonizing, as any unpleasant self-revelation is. I do NOT believe the fire is literal. Certainly that would be out of character with our Good Father, and not conducive to any genuine repentance. The purification is real, but the fire is not a mere chemical reaction producing heat. This fire is the actual Holy fire, the terrible and beautiful eternal Spirit of God.

My thoughts on the matter... there are many other ways to see and understand these things and lots of valid thoughts on the topic—hopefully including those that I have shared here.

That was very well said!
I think we all go through that lake of fire, that it is part of the redemptive process.. Like the whole process! Lol.

I hadn?t realized how saturated with the gold and the bronze the symbolism of the temple, etc. is! Like tongues of fire..And it?s a (spiritual) fire that burns forever!

The Lord said all those in the tombs (graves) will hear His voice and will come forth. (From the graves/tombs.) ..Some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment(Jn.5:28-29). Which is after the thousand years (Rev.20:5).
     And he said, Matthew 25:46 - these will rise into aionian-kolasis *AGE*LASTING-CORRECTION (translated, everlasting punishment, oye) but the righteous into aionian life (the millennium).

And the Lord said He will draw all..Those not now, then surely(?) during what the Lord calls the judgment. The difference via the pattern and doing of God. With all - Greek word, pas - every, all, the whole - becoming mature in Christ.

Which this whole drama of knowing (understanding) good&evil/Life&death, is this letting the fruits run their course. Proving age to age to age - to all in heaven and Earth - good from evil (life from not life).

Because just how is God to create genuinely able to think and reason beings, and keep paradise/perfection intact?

I guess (?) you include in the original garden of life, a visible option of straying.. which straying into imperfection.. Since God - quote, is perfect, unquote - anything other than His will and choices is imperfect. And I believe He is Life (itself)..

Since He is perfect - Mt.5:48 - I figure we can rely upon it that He is doing, and has done, all things as He has, in order to bring about the utter best of all possible end results. And by observing history and the world (and scripture) I think letting things, for the most part, run their course, and the fruit of imperfection to fully mature.. allowing even some of the worst of things to actually occur.. is actually unavoidable, iF there?s to be true thinking and reasoning ability. With the remedy being Christ Crucified, a strong enough image to pierce, ultimately, every guilty and mortified conscience.

All learning that straying/imperfection can never be a winning game but can only ever be trouble (tribulation), ruin (apocalypse, individual and collective) and ultimately death! (As opposite to Life). But since God iS Life, he lives through and suffers it all.. (as opposed to humans who experience some, die, then next they know they are resurrected, either into THE age/the thousand years/millennium - (whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die unto THE age - or will rise into aionian correction (kolasis) and put on perfection and immortality at the all made new event that follows that aion of correction.

The lake of fire John saw? Not a hell or physical purgatory! :mshock: but 3 occurrences in Revelation/prophecy? (#1) man?s doings, part of what is ?cut short? (?) being man?s modern fiery capability with enough chain reaction to cause the Earth to shake to and fro-Is.24:20; Zech.14:4-5 (#2) a flood of fire at the final defeat of the adversary-Rev.29, and (#3) the all in all, and all made new, event after long ?day? of correction/of being drawn to the Lord just as we all were - 2Pet.3:12-13 ?the elements melt in furious heat, and there is a new heaven and Earth where righteousness/rightness will dwell? - 2Pet.3:10 & 12,13 being like bookend events of the Lord?s long second advent. And event is what Jude 7 says hellfire is! [...Why can?t we see that verse?] Another thing to ponder.. When? are the tares gathered to a burning? (Not chaff, tares.) And next they know.. age of correction - Day of Atonement..

Fall Holy Days to be fulfilled ? Day of Trumpets (of Rev. & the Lord and the kingdom?s arrival at the last one) - 10days/1000yrs -> Day of Atonement/Kolasis/Correction - 5days/500yrs -> Tabernacles - when God will now tabernacle with mankind on Earth made anew..
Regenesis! Of ALL.
:gsmile:

[Lazarus Short]

I have said it before and it bears repeating:  there are two kinds of FIRE in the Bible.  One is natural fire.  The other is supernatural fire, as in the burning bush.  The supernatural fire is never "Hellfire" for it is always Godfire.  The Fire of the Lake of Fire is the same Fire we read of on the day of Pentecost, the same Fire that we read of the the Revelation, having to do with God's throne.

The Fire's purpose is to refine men, to burn away the impurities, dross, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble.  When God can skim off the dross and see His own Reflection in us, He is done  God is more than a band-aid, He is a refiner.

[darryl]

One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?

ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.

well, that's cause u are a sensitive, thinking person...sadly, many believers in ECT have little or no problem with the idea of God torturing billions of folk in fire, forever...must be a satanic delusion.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

First of all GREAT topic! Praise ABBA for this, I was sent straight into worshipping our God for the good messages here.
I testify that I myself fell victim to Marie's "testimony" and many others like it. And was not around this forum to ask the bold help that was asked here. Thankfully The Lord never allowed my heart to be fully at rest whenever I was willing to fall for the lie of Satan that is Eternal Torment.

It took me at least 2 full years for the last shade of fear and doubt related to this subject to be completely burned out of my heart by Jesus's Spirit! My faith crises that ensued were never related to this anymore but to other personal issues, which thankfully, with God's provision through this community and other fellow Universalist brethren, were dealt with in the Grace of God's Love.

Everything that I could ever say was already said here by so many, and in so many words that I could not find what more to add but if one thing God's Spirit is leading me to say is this: The original words used to define "Hell" or more commonly known as LOF or Gehenna (two different contexts) Are never associated within the Bible with actual eternity, but with the word Aion which is the literal word from which we get the word Eon, which is literally an age. And not that the apostles had no idea how to speak the word for eternity, because they indeed had it, and it was the word A-adios (not sure whether the spelling is right) but nowhere in scripture, that condemnation is linked to, does it has this word next to it but rather the word Aion (or a variation of it).

If the very scripture that God left for us to be our aid in our faith, does not include this abominable faith, and everywhere where God's Character is described in the bible, is associated with such a Good parent that finds any kind of similar concepts of evil as utterly repugnant, then there's no foundation for any of the complex mountain of reasons given to defend this aberration. And all "supernatural" visions of such, (if they are real) are either mental illness related or demonically induced.

Sometimes it is also the human mind trying to process what it saw in the spirit, if the person is authentic, and indeed had an out of body experience of divine origin. The person in cause would only be able to see as much as their hearts would allow them to, which in cases of unexplainable benevolent miracles to accompany a (direct or indirect) vision of hell, could be.
We ought always to remember we are fallen beings and full of imperfections, what's to say our clarity of sight in the spirit is not impaired, especially since it is known all throughout scripture that even the prophets admit what is seen in the spirit is symbolical due to an incomplete ability to clearly see what truly is there.

But most charismatic cases are nothing but satanic babble when trying to defend this rotten doctrine.

Never the less, I love the book written by our brother in Christ, Thomas Talbott and I would love to write my understanding of one favourite part from it which would sound roughly the same but I can't remember word for word (the book is called The inescapable Love of God if you are interested in reading, you can get it on audible, makes it easier)

-Having to consider that God is the God of Truth, then how can He partake in such a fraud as is the forceful bowing of the knee and the confession of the tongue that Jesus is Lord to The Glory of The Father if those confessing unbelievers don't actually mean what they claim at the end of all? (I don't think it was a question apologies for my mistake)

For future information i would love to share with you some of the greatest videos God has brought my way for my fortification perhaps they'll help you too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOhaT0xS3TU&t=1772s&ab_channel=LifeofFaithChristianMinistry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YocjQoP7MRI&ab_channel=FaithandReality1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnYooeNm1Xs&t=1s&ab_channel=RethinkingHell

And all you need to know about the word Aion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p77xXIZyP34&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRsfZBuPIHY&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM-3DYy5pfY&t=2s&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FQJ2AVBZCM&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist

Peace and Love from the very heart of our Abba!  :cloud9: :dsunny: :cloud9:

[billsull]

 i question eternal damnation and some woman kook with a video just proves she has vain imaginations

[darryl]

One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?

ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.

God would need to wipe the other 99% from our memory ?...yep...which seems irrational/ incoherent

[darryl]

yes, its beautiful !