This is an interview with the newest forever hell promoter Laurie Ditto. She says she was taken to hell and she seems trust worthy...can some of you please watch this and share their thoughts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJP0iJ1Zbjg
I have not watched the video, but I like to keep this in mind. If the vision/NDE did come from Jesus, and they do not say it was forever, the hell testimonies never say it was endless. That is usually from those who insert that "eternal" part into it. And even these things get people on the right track. I personally do not like lostening to hell testimonies, but they are corrective if it truly was from God. :2c:
SET YOUR AFFECTION on things above, not on things on the earth. (Colossians 3:2) (Emphasis is mine)
if they love the idea of a hell of eternal torment, then that is what their affection is set on (making it their foundation)
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matthew 6:21)
if they treasure the idea of a hell of eternal torment that is where their heart is
IMO God was just showing her where her heart is
When we set our affection on things above, namely "God is Love", that is what our affection is set upon, making Love our foundation ... in other words; our affection is set on the foundation of Love, not a hell of eternal torment
And also in my opinion:
We cannot enter into the wedding feast with the wrong clothes, we are covered with the clothing of love, not with the rags with holes burnt in them from the fires of hell
and of the ten virgins, is our lamp filled with the anointing (oil) of love from God which burns with the light of Love
or did we get man's anointing (oil) from the market place which burns with the light of hell (how dark is that light)
my :2c:
Amen! And when push comes to shove, that lamp will sputter out.. :gsmile:
Amen JH, both posts :iagree:
About the video, here's something I've never thought of before.. someone told me a few days ago, that we are in the days of 2 Timothy chapters 3 and 4, which got me to thinking.. And now while watching this - and I've not watched it all.. it's just getting into the hell part.. but I found myself thinking of those chapters and the idea that, for whatever reason.. even self deception, or delusion.. or to be on Sid Roth, someone might make it up.. like writing a script.. wouldn't be so hard to do.
I never really thought of that before.. But I do know none of her relatives were in hell.. lol. THo maybe some christians.. No! I'm kidding! I've just been reading the bible for so long - 40 years this year.. And the more familiar we are with it.. through study and prayer.. the easier to know what to think about all things in the world.
And lately! I TRULY think translators mistook fiery EARTHLY prophecies concerning man's modern (fiery) capabilities, for the olde pagan 'hell' myths! Especially as LOF is mentioned -1- at Jesus' return during (fiery) Armageddon; and even bigger, at the "all in all" event when Father God becomes all in all.. But the verse says those not written in the book of life at that time would go to the LOF, but after being raised from your grave ("tomb") and experiencing what surely will have to be a long 'day' of judgment/REVIEW of all history.. who's not going to "believe" (and thus "have life" and be enrolled in the book) after all that!? Except for the grace of God there would be any of us..
Back to the video..
...oh my.. that's enough of that.. doesn't look or sound realistic or reasonable to me.. And the idea of eternal joy and inutterable peace in eternity while 3/4's of humanity - or even one person is burning forever, their flesh forever melting..
Well.. Our "Father in heaven, is perfect: (Mt.5:38?) Imagine losing even one of His creations. Could that be called perfect?
Instead Jesus said He will draw ALL to Himself, Jn.12:32. Which is more trustworthy? The words of Jesus, or persons on television.. youtube.. etc. It's sad the dregs of this terrible doctrine are so tenacious in people's psyche.
Bless you brother Andrew.. :Pray: :HeartThrob:
Of course things are, for large part, being let to run their course. Experience is the best teacher. And convincer when the Holy Spirit so guides.. If there's to be thinking and reasoning power, this issue of good from evil (life from nonlife/death; or that is God/Life/Perfection from imperfection.. good from not good :gsmile: has to be settled and proven, to "all in heaven and earth".
God "is perfect"! Perfect makes no mistake(s). Perfect cannot lose any thing. And the 'end' result of all this, can onLy be the utter best one possible.
"God is love" and "love NEVER fails" :HeartThrob: 1 Jn.4:8 and 1 Cor. 13:8
Thanks Marie Glen for watching some of the video and commenting...I just tend to believe what people say unless I have absolute evidence against the idea so when people talk about forever hell and their experience with it - it terrifies me and I look to other Christians like you to give me an alternate idea to what they are saying...so thank you
Jugghead did you watch the video? You had some interesting thoughts but I was just wondering if they were more of a general statement towards people who have had a hell experience or was it directed specifically for this video?
Quote from: Andrew on April 14, 2019, 09:15:15 PM
Jugghead did you watch the video? You had some interesting thoughts but I was just wondering if they were more of a general statement towards people who have had a hell experience or was it directed specifically for this video?
My comments were towards those who had a hell experience and I wrote that without watching the video.
But now that I have watched it, the first thing that comes to mind is:
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14)so i ask, do we know for sure it was Jesus she was talking to or Satan appearing as Jesus?
If Jesus said that He was the one who took her there, why did his arm appear with no fingers and drag her there?
the violent take it by force. (Matthew 11:12)and last, and I believe is the most important:
There is no fear in love; but PERFECT LOVE CASTETH OUT FEAR: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18) (emphasis is mine)
If that was Jesus (Jesus is Love, because He is the exact representation of the Father and God is Love) why was he trying to put fear into her by showing her a vision of hell rather than casting fear out?
fear hath torment and was that not exactly what she was brought into, seeing and feeling the torment causing fear to be INSTILLED in her and grow to a point of no return rather than simple believing nothing she saw was true (truth) and by it have all fear cast out.
IMO her testamony divides mankind into "those who do" and "those who don't"
WHEREAS
I believe we are to understand "He who did" and "we who didn't"
My advice is: stop seeking truth from outside sources,
for the kingdom of God is within and since Christ has returned to His kingdom, He is within you.
my :2c:
And wanted to add, she will now live in that "fear of death" the rest of her life if she doesn't do something about it, making everything about what "SHE has to do" rather than what "CHRIST has already done"
thanks for watching jugghead and leaving comments. I appreciate it
Andrew, may I be so bold as to ask you a question?
Did you have peace before you watched the video?
If so, does God steal peace away from us? The reason I ask this is: if Christ is the "prince of Peace"; is not a prince a son, thus making God the Father, Peace itself, so would God steal His own Son from you or would it be the enemy?
Which brings to mind:
"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath." (Matthew 25:29)
which can also be understood as:
"For unto every one that hath (peace) shall be given (more peace), and he shall have abundance (of peace): but from him that hath not (peace) shall be taken away even that (peace) which he hath."
I myself believe it is the enemy of God (peace) that tries to steal our peace (God) from us, and if we do have a firm root (foundation) what we have can easily e burned up or crumble when shaken.
my :2c:
Amen we can tell something by what it produces.. by its fruit.. luke 6:43..
Whereas God's will ---> "(perfect) love casts-out fear" :gsmile:
God bless..
Trust God's Word.
Do not trust bad translations, "Christian" fiction or novels, Ewetube videos, and on and on. These things are produced for those with itching ears, and since when did God's message EVER tickle anyone's ears or back up their presuppositions...?
I dont like 'hell testimony' videos...seems phoney, fake.....the Bible says ONCE to die......anyway, why not simply accept God ultimately get what He wants ?, the salvation of ALL as it says in Romans 5:18, 19.After all, how will people be happy in Heaven when their loved ones are not there ?...think about it...there's NO tears in Heaven !.
what I saw in it......If this was really Jesus trying to show her the truth..is this.....
Jesus showed her that in heaven all are healed and delivered from all sin.Love is NOT jealous[as she was when she saw His great love
for His bride] He then revealed that He loved her in the same way and His power to forgive love.......and heal from/take away all sin.
the Hell scene came upon her when she still walked in the church doctrines of hellfire teachings of unforgiveness,slanderous gossip
[you slander your own mother's son] Carnal Christians twist what they do not understand unto their own destruction[hell]
Hell is death...those who have a name they are alive[Christ]but are dead...but have shrunk back in fear to the law of sin and death.
Those determined to become rich[1Tim6;9,10] and drink Babylon's wine and merchandise the Word of God...I don't buy it.....and
it won't belong and no-one will be buying their stuff!Rev ch17,18..burnher with fire[burn up wicked 'works' of the devil/liar]
TOO bad she was blind to the great healing,LOVE and taking away of all sin Jesus will do when He washes/cleanses all of our feet
of the 'dusty earthly" fleshly ways ...and does not believe that God is not counting our sins against our eternal life.Yet,He does not
leave our soul in hell and He shall deliver all in such captivity.
His gifts[free eternal life]and calling[all shall hear the voice of the son of God] are irrevocable
Quote from: darryl on July 28, 2019, 10:46:08 AM
I dont like 'hell testimony' videos...seems phoney, fake.....the Bible says ONCE to die......anyway, why not simply accept God ultimately get what He wants ?, the salvation of ALL as it says in Romans 5:18, 19.After all, how will people be happy in Heaven when their loved ones are not there ?...think about it...there's NO tears in Heaven !.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree: How can there be tears, loss, mourning in God's perfect kingdom?! And in His all-in-all-ness? :doh: ..not possible.
How can hell youtube videos be true if Sheol and hades do not mean hell?
Quote from: chester-blowfold on November 25, 2019, 06:45:23 AM
How can hell youtube videos be true if Sheol and hades do not mean hell?
Amen!
I think these verses shed much light! -
The Lord said, John 5:28-29 - “All those in the tombs” (graves) “will come forth” (out of the graves/tombs) “those having done the good in the resurrection of Life” ( - which occurs at the Lord’s return) “and those having done the evil in the resurrection of judgment” ( - which is “after the thousand years”/millennium - see Rev. chapter 20).
And 2 Peter 2:9 - “..For God knows how to preserve the unrighteous for CORRECTION/kolazo on ‘day’ of judgment”.
KOLAZO -
1. properly, to lop, prune, as trees, wings.
2. to check, curb, restrain.
3. to chastise, correct, punish
Translators seem to almost always/always? prefer the most extreme and severe of the possible usages of words. Also love to run with some words , like they do/did with verses.. like aion, greek root of eon become for ever and ever.. And some verses have forever inserted where in the original Greek there’s no time word at all! And at least one verse where there is aion but translated with no time word.
https://reforminghell.com/tag/kolasis/
"John: Well, the Bible says, yes! It's an eternal judgment but the important thing to point out is the Bible says it's proportional. So we need to hold those two things in mind. It's eternal but it's proportional. That is, not everyone's going to get the same judgment. Jesus speaks about the religious leaders being judged more harshly. He talks about Tyre and Sidon—pagan nations—faring better on the Judgment Day, than others. He, several times, speaks about judgment being proportional—that is, compared to your deeds. So however those things fit together in the mathematics of God, I don't know. But it isn't an argument to say, "Ah, well, an eternal judgment couldn't possibly match, you know, finite deeds." We just have to hold what the Bible says together. Eternal but it is also proportional to our deeds."
This seems to match "A Second chance in Heaven" testimony where there is a hell and special chambers for the more severe judgements.
The above argument is such a mess. I can no longer listen to the mental gymnastics required to justify eternal torture by a parent and creator to the created/offspring/children of that creator/parent. Really it's just immediately recoiling. I can't even entertain the idea. Just remember this viewpoint makes GOD the most EVIL being in the universe.
Amen GIL, I totally agree! It's extremely insulting! And highly illogical and actually not biblical at all, unless one is specially trained to see verses that way. Which I guess most of us were! :doh:
I do hope Andrew hasn't succumbed to the fear, because the last post he made sounded like he did and was seduced back into living in fear of ET. I hope I'm wrong and that I misinterpreted what he just said. But know this, Andrew. Laurie's testimony is a false one. I haven't watched it, nor do I desire to, but I have seen people's response to it here, and I've learned to discern by using the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Is Jesus showing the fruits that HE taught in the bible in Laurie's testimony? No.
It's just another one like Mary Baxter, Bill Weise, etc. A bunch of bologna, spawned by the human imagination, not reality. And I recon there will continue to be new ones in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, etc. So long as there's selfish incentive in the world, people will continue to make false fear-mongering testimonies to maintain power, or whatever their self desire is. I recon it won't be over until our current world is over, only then will we all be reconciled, and these false fear-mongering testimonies will finally be put to an end. Did Paul not warn about this?
"The Holy Spirit clearly says that in the last days some people will leave the faith. They will follow spirits that will fool them. They will believe things that demons will teach them."
"Teachings like those come from liars who pretend to be what they are not. Their sense of what is right and wrong has been burned as if with a hot iron."
"They do not allow people to get married. They order them not to eat certain foods. But God created those foods. So people who believe and know the truth should receive them and give thanks for them."
"Everything God created is good. You shouldn't turn anything down. Instead you should thank God for it."
"The word of God and prayer make it holy."
"Point these things out to the brothers and sisters. Then you will serve Christ Jesus well. You were brought up in the truths of faith. You received good teaching. You followed it."
Until that day comes, look to God, not a selfish person in need of attention. If you must look at NDEs for assurance, look at ones that preach universal reconcilation. Those do possess each and every one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (peace, love, joy, etc.), and I believe those to be true accounts.
Believe me, coming out of ET and holding back the false legalistic/fundamentalist testimonies is still, to this day, like pulling a giant sucking leech off of my brain. Whilst my brain is still catching up, my spirit has accepted the truth of unconditional love, and the Holy Spirit is working to cast out fear and help my mind to catch up with my soul. Letting go of fear, depending on who or what you are, can be one of the hardest things in this world to do, especially with dark souls and dark people trying to keep that leech on you, but it is possible to escape it, as it's possible to escape hell (not just for "prophets" but for everyone who happens to be there, and calls out to our loving Father. All are saved, all will be saved.). Don't let people like Laurie, Mary, Bill, etc keep you away from the Holy Spirit, for those false prophets are making it "hard for the people to enter heaven", when the true Jesus' yoke is easy, and his burden is light.
Blessings to you, Andrew. I pray you'll formally get a true taste of God's unconditional love, and be rescued from the human teaching of judgement and condemnation, for those things don't exist in love, and God is love.
Hi Chinni channi
I'm still a hopeful universalist, but I don't have that certainty that I would like to have. What finally convinced you of UR as I have read some of your earlier posts and you seemed to struggle with some of the same issues that I do.
Andrew
One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?
ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.
Quote from: Shev on December 26, 2019, 05:18:47 AM
One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?
ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.
Amen!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Hi Marie,
You said,
Quote
"And lately! I TRULY think translators mistook fiery EARTHLY prophecies concerning man's modern (fiery) capabilities, for the olde pagan 'hell' myths! Especially as LOF is mentioned -1- at Jesus' return during (fiery) Armageddon; and even bigger, at the "all in all" event when Father God becomes all in all.. But the verse says those not written in the book of life at that time would go to the LOF, but after being raised from your grave ("tomb") and experiencing what surely will have to be a long 'day' of judgment/REVIEW of all history.. who's not going to "believe" (and thus "have life" and be enrolled in the book) after all that!? Except for the grace of God there would be any of us.."
I was thinking about this yesterday and an idea came to mind. I wonder if the LOF isn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Matt. 3:11 Luke 3:16 . When one is baptized, they are baptized in water,... lake, river,....What if the baptism by fire is the lake of fire mentioned in Rev. The lake of fire is the second death, therefore when one is baptized the old is washed away and the new clean man emerges...death of the old, birth of the new. In (Rev. 21:8) all of these things that man cannot overcome will be washed away by the baptism of the holy spirit which
MAYbe in the lake of fire. I say "may be" because this is just something I have been thinking about. What if the LOF is a baptism of fire that will destroy sin and renew man? Just my thoughts.
Sorry, I don't get to post much but I read every chance I get.
CHB
posted by Shev
" Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?"
Interestingly enough this is how I have heard ET believers explain what will take place in Heaven - your memories of loved ones who are in hell will be wiped from your memory.
What does a fundamentalist/literalist do with, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"? If Jesus is able to leave the majority of the creation in hell eternally, Where is his victory?
If Jesus isnt being literal there then no one can take anything else as literal either.
If someone believes the Bible is inerrant, how do they deal with, "Behold I am making all things new?"
How can he make all things new if most things are in hell, in torment, forever?
There are sooooo many scriptures that teach the restoration of all things.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
According to Paul, the only thing that will not be put under Messiah's feet is the Father. When all things are under His feet- death will be undone/destroyed/anulled. Why?
Because death is caused by sin and when all things are subjected to Jesus all things will be subject to His love and God will be ALL IN ALL!
Aint it beautiful? :dsunny:
:gsmile: ..It sure is! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob: :cloud9:
CHB above likened the LOF to a possible Holy Spirit baptism. Among all the profound and loving things brought out from God's treasure house here, this one in particular caught my eye—chiefly because I have had similar thoughts. First I want to point out that almost everywhere in scripture, fire symbolizes purification. The sacrifice on the altar is purified by fire as the ashes are left behind and the smoke (spirit) ascends to God as a pleasing aroma. Silver is tested/refined in a furnace made of earth, purified seven times. Those whose deeds are corrupt will experience the destruction of those impure deeds by fire and thus they are saved, but saved as through the fire. Notice the word "as". These are all metaphors, as is the LOF. There are many valid ways to see the LOF and this symbol of God's loving correction has too many facets for my tiny mind to even imagine. This is my favorite:
The bronze Laver of the wilderness Tabernacle was crafted from the bronze mirrors donated by the women who worked to create the elaborate curtains and other draperies of the Tabernacle. Its purpose was to hold the consecrated water in which the priests must wash and purify themselves before entering the Holy Place and (once a year) the High Priest, before he entered the Holy of Holies.
Bronze symbolizes judgment. Mirrors symbolize seeing oneself as one truly is. The water in the laver is emblematic of purification. When Solomon built the permanent Temple, he caused a Bronze Sea to be built as the larger and more magnificent Laver. I think the Laver/Sea (among other equally valid symbolism) foreshadows the LOF. It is a place for purification prior to entering the felt presence of God. Of course it is the Spirit who effects this purification, and She is often symbolized by fire (and by many other things).
The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" to those still outside the City (the location of the LOF). Who, at this point, remains outside the City if not the as-yet unregenerate? "And whoever is thirsty, let him come and drink freely of the Water of Life!" they urge. Who is still thirsty? Not those already in the City of God. The inmates of the LOF, being judged by their own hearts (the bronze mirrors) and purified by the fire of God (the Holy Spirit) are invited and urged to drink freely of the Water of Life. When they are thirsty they will come.
I don't know how long (if length of time even has any meaning in the immediate presence of God) it may take those in the LOF before they see themselves truly enough to truly repent. I do believe it will be agonizing, as any unpleasant self-revelation is. I do NOT believe the fire is literal. Certainly that would be out of character with our Good Father, and not conducive to any genuine repentance. The purification is real, but the fire is not a mere chemical reaction producing heat. This fire is the actual Holy fire, the terrible and beautiful eternal Spirit of God.
My thoughts on the matter... there are many other ways to see and understand these things and lots of valid thoughts on the topic—hopefully including those that I have shared here.
Andrew, I'm so sorry I took this long to respond. I asked someone I know to translate Laurie's testimony, and I hope this can help you. Again, I'm sorry I waited so long, and I'll probably pay for that delay, if I haven't already. You can see how long it took me as this was sent around the Holidays. >.< And it was my own fault.
I don't know if you believe in everything this man has said to me (he was responding to my own and his beliefs, which is extremely similar to Christian Universalism in my opinion, but with a few subtle differences. We both believe in UR though, which is what matters.), but at the very least I hope it'll bring you some form of closure. I'm struggling through the exact same fear and pain as you are, and I need stuff like this constantly day-to-day to keep myself in check. I pretty much just lost my composure in a recent post I made. So I can relate to you entirely.
"Dear Bristol,
I watched two YouTube videos about Laurie Ditto and here are my notes:
(1) Laurie Ditto claims she witnessed heaven and hell during prayer.
Once again, this is a Charismatic's attempt to "save souls" regardless
of the truth. In other words, the ends justifies the means with her.
She mentions speaking in tongues which is how I know she's Charismatic.
There is no NDE involved with her experience -- it's only her imagination.
Concerning false experiences such as Ditto's, the Bible mentions them
as follows:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep?s clothing, but
inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate
each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."
(Matthew 24:10-12)
"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great
signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." (Matthew 24:24)
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to
him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or
alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us -- whether by a prophecy or
by word of mouth or by letter -- asserting that the day of the Lord has already
come." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2)
"And then the lawless one (Antichrist) will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus
will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor
of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with
how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs
and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives
those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth
and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so
that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have
not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:8-12)
(2) Ditto describes "the Father" (God) in the form of a human like Jesus.
This is a big mistake. God is life, love and light. God is not a man:
"God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should
change his mind." (Numbers 23:19)
"Do not say, ?We have found wisdom; let God, not a man, refute him.'" (Job 32:13)
"For I am God, and not a man -- the Holy One among you." (Hosea 11:9)
(3) When people meet Jesus in heaven, they have a "life review" because that
is Jesus' job. Ditto experienced no life review.
(4) Ditto mentions seeing angels in heaven with wings. Angels don't have
wings according to the NDE literature.
(Bristol's note: They don't have them in Biblical literature either)
(5) She claims the Bible is literally true which is impossible.
(6) Once again, like other false testimony, she sees Christians in hell.
Such testimony elevates Ditto to a "super-Christian". A total lie.
Ditto sees Christians in hell "for not obeying Jesus." But Christians
are not perfect, just forgiven. Jesus paid for all sins and God will
not require Christians to pay for the same sins that Jesus paid for.
(7) She claims hell is physical heat and physical pain. This is false.
The only pain in hell is mental and not physical.
(8) She claims holiness is loving and obeying Jesus. But Jesus taught
that loving God and other people is the way to eternal life (Luke 10:25-28)
(9) Ditto claims there is no way out of hell. But Jesus went to hell already to
set people free (see "The Harrowing of Hell" on Wikipedia). There
is no time in the afterlife, so Jesus has already freed everyone who wants
to escape hell. Hell is actually kind of a "purgatory" - a temporary
state of a "hellish" condition of the mind.
(10) Ditto mentions that she was wearing red clothes in heaven. But people
who have actually been to heaven normally are not fixated on what they
are wearing. In the very, very few instances where NDErs notice what they are
wearing, it is always "heavenly" clothes made of un-Earthly material. Certainly
not red.
You are quite correct in saying Ditto's experience doesn't pass the smell test.
Hope this helps.
Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year!
-(censored)"
:thumbsup:
Quote from: 777DROW-S on October 25, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Why? It is obviously not. - Why waste time on utter nonsense?
Why throw pearls to swine who are not yet ready for pearls?
Do you sort of people never mature in the faith or grow up (common sense)?
Why keep regurgitating the same stuff that has been covered over and over again?
Tell them to do some study if they claim they love God so much or direct them to old articles that people have written tirelessly year in year out dedicating their lives to deal with this sort of thing!
Are you a troll out to waste people's time; preventing them from advancing in the faith? It's the only reason I can see for people to be constantly regurgitating such nonsense.
Are we to do this every single time someone says they went to 'hell'? - Spend our time on a liar who is too lazy to study and out to cause harm spreading doubt fear and nonsense?
It's ridiculous.
Do grow up...It's not too late.
Do you not realize that BABYLONS SPIRIT IS AT WORK HERE ?
and how much confusion is being done ?
I believe that GOD allows the suffering of her cup a double portion , heaven and earth to be SUFFERING
How else does one learn GODS GRACE except though the experiences ?
you are robbing them of the experiences brother , by provoking many spirits to kill you and what good will that do for GOD ?
THE HOLY SPIRIT FRUITS ARE in Gal 5 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
there is no opposition when these are all applied to your message
I love your provoking brother
but many get offended over a WORD ..........
IT IS HIGH TIME ONE COMES OUT OF THE SLEEP OF ADAM EH ?Romans 13:11
?And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.?
SAVED from the wrath of GOD as Babylon is going to fail and fall BIG TIME
Come out of her my people unless you receive her plagues , trying to be graceful here , and in all fairness there is truth in some of this stuff , not all truth !!!!!!!!!!!! but some is better than none , if you get cut off ,there will be none .
I hope you can understand offending and being offended has its own rewards, fruits of doing , working for the Lord ..... brother if you are living it right , More power to you , but if you are like the rest of us sinners here , have some mercy on us too!!!!!
I need to be lifted up daily , and being cut down low and wounded , makes everyone go silent , as we have seen on this forum and also in the world
do not cut off your nose to spite your face , we need you here ! do not let your anger , the nose Strong's H639 - 'aph
אַף
Transliteration
'aph
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From אָנַףּ (H599)
TWOT Reference
133a
Outline of Biblical Usage
1nostril, nose, face
2 anger
just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!! allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire ready to be consumed !
rev 18 Babylon is Fallen
?3
All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.?
4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
?Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues. 5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.?
meat is for the body and body for the meat BUT ......
1 Cor 6 Members of Christ
12?Everything is permissible for me,? but not everything is beneficial.
?Everything is permissible for me,? but I will not be mastered by anything.
13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.
In the Body of CHRIST YES but it is HIS DOING /work and not of ourselves , knowledge puffs up , like an ego puffs up only to be deflated into a useless bag that cannot hold old wine or new wine as the wineskins are offended
because of the sharp point of the Sword / Word .. and again must be made a new .. more pliable and easily stretched out .
the grace of God allows the room to grow in TRUTH AND GRACE ............LOVE IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL........
Quote, by provoking many spirits to kill you and what good will that do for GOD ?
THE HOLY SPIRIT FRUITS ARE in Gal 5 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
there is no opposition when these are all applied to your message
I love your provoking brother
but many get offended over a WORD ..........
IT IS HIGH TIME ONE COMES OUT OF THE SLEEP OF ADAM EH ?Romans 13:11
?And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.?
SAVED from the wrath of GOD as Babylon is going to fail and fall BIG TIME
Come out of her my people unless you receive her plagues , trying to be graceful here , and in all fairness there is truth in some of this stuff , not all truth !!!!!!!!!!!! but some is better than none , if you get cut off ,there will be none .
I hope you can understand offending and being offended has its own rewards, fruits of doing , working for the Lord ..... brother if you are living it right , More power to you , but if you are like the rest of us sinners here , have some mercy on us too!!!!!
I need to be lifted up daily , and being cut down low and wounded , makes everyone go silent , as we have seen on this forum and also in the world
do not cut off your nose to spite your face , we need you here ! do not let your anger , the nose Strong's H639 - 'aph
אַף
Transliteration
'aph
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From אָנַףּ (H599)
TWOT Reference
133a
Outline of Biblical Usage
1nostril, nose, face
2 anger
just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!! allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire ready to be consumed !
rev 18 Babylon is Fallen
?3All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.?
4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: ?Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.
5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.?
meat is for the body and body for the meat BUT ......
1 Cor 6 Members of Christ
12?Everything is permissible for me,? but not everything is beneficial.
?Everything is permissible for me,? but I will not be mastered by anything.
13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.
In the Body of CHRIST YES but it is HIS DOING /work and not of ourselves , knowledge puffs up , like an ego puffs up only to be deflated into a useless bag that cannot hold old wine or new wine as the wineskins are offended
because of the sharp point of the Sword / Word .. and again must be made a new .. more pliable and easily stretched out .
the grace of God allows the room to grow in TRUTH AND GRACE ............LOVE IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL........
Yes...i certainly do see babylon's spirit at work in here Rose.
Which is why I am leaving.
I threw pearls to swine and the swine turned to 'rend' me.
When so called believers lie and others defend the liars instead of the one telling the truth then they are not believers at all.
And this is meant to be a website 'For God' (Truth) and clearly it is not as has been proven.
"By their fruits"...
Quote
you are robbing them of the experiences brother , by provoking many spirits to kill you and what good will that do for GOD ?
Hey sorry. Don't mind me.
Keep allowing people to believe wicked fables and turn from the truth and be utterly crushed by fear evil and lies.
That will be right.
I'm
not your brother.
My brothers and sisters do the will of God. I see very little of that here.
Quote
I believe that GOD allows the suffering of her cup a double portion , heaven and earth to be SUFFERING
How else does one learn GODS GRACE except though the experiences ?
you are robbing them of the experiences brother
Yeah, because we are not called to love and heal right? - Or to be a light to our fellow man - We are here to just let people suffer to 'help' them.
Rose are you feeling ok? I'm serious.
Quote
2 anger
just breathe !!!!!!!!!!!! allow Gods grace to cover us all . your face might be Jesus warning us His eyes are a blaze of fire ready to be consumed !
Who is angry? Obviously you since you brought it up.
'Breathe' you say?
Do you actually think I'm angry?
I can assure you I'm not.
Some things make me angry.
Dealing with lies and hypocrisy and stupidity is water off a ducks back.
The rest of your speil isn't relevant to the conversation, just a mish-mash that hurts my eyes...and to be honest I'm not convinced in the slightest you even know half of what it all means.
Quote13? Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By His power God raised the Lord from the dead, and He will raise us also.
??? And this is relevant to the conversation how?
See I don't have time for this! It's ridiculous Rose...
I removed all my other posts because this place is like a local gossip hole, where everyone just waits on a stranger to say something so they can all pounce on him. - I'm not encouraging it.
Now I see why nobody comes here anymore ... It's 'fallen' alright.
Quote from: CindyinSD on January 29, 2020, 04:33:08 AM
CHB above likened the LOF to a possible Holy Spirit baptism. Among all the profound and loving things brought out from God's treasure house here, this one in particular caught my eye—chiefly because I have had similar thoughts. First I want to point out that almost everywhere in scripture, fire symbolizes purification. The sacrifice on the altar is purified by fire as the ashes are left behind and the smoke (spirit) ascends to God as a pleasing aroma. Silver is tested/refined in a furnace made of earth, purified seven times. Those whose deeds are corrupt will experience the destruction of those impure deeds by fire and thus they are saved, but saved as through the fire. Notice the word "as". These are all metaphors, as is the LOF. There are many valid ways to see the LOF and this symbol of God's loving correction has too many facets for my tiny mind to even imagine. This is my favorite:
The bronze Laver of the wilderness Tabernacle was crafted from the bronze mirrors donated by the women who worked to create the elaborate curtains and other draperies of the Tabernacle. Its purpose was to hold the consecrated water in which the priests must wash and purify themselves before entering the Holy Place and (once a year) the High Priest, before he entered the Holy of Holies.
Bronze symbolizes judgment. Mirrors symbolize seeing oneself as one truly is. The water in the laver is emblematic of purification. When Solomon built the permanent Temple, he caused a Bronze Sea to be built as the larger and more magnificent Laver. I think the Laver/Sea (among other equally valid symbolism) foreshadows the LOF. It is a place for purification prior to entering the felt presence of God. Of course it is the Spirit who effects this purification, and She is often symbolized by fire (and by many other things).
The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" to those still outside the City (the location of the LOF). Who, at this point, remains outside the City if not the as-yet unregenerate? "And whoever is thirsty, let him come and drink freely of the Water of Life!" they urge. Who is still thirsty? Not those already in the City of God. The inmates of the LOF, being judged by their own hearts (the bronze mirrors) and purified by the fire of God (the Holy Spirit) are invited and urged to drink freely of the Water of Life. When they are thirsty they will come.
I don't know how long (if length of time even has any meaning in the immediate presence of God) it may take those in the LOF before they see themselves truly enough to truly repent. I do believe it will be agonizing, as any unpleasant self-revelation is. I do NOT believe the fire is literal. Certainly that would be out of character with our Good Father, and not conducive to any genuine repentance. The purification is real, but the fire is not a mere chemical reaction producing heat. This fire is the actual Holy fire, the terrible and beautiful eternal Spirit of God.
My thoughts on the matter... there are many other ways to see and understand these things and lots of valid thoughts on the topic—hopefully including those that I have shared here.
That was very well said!
I think we all go through that lake of fire, that it is part of the redemptive process.. Like the whole process! Lol.
I hadn?t realized how saturated with the gold and the bronze the symbolism of the temple, etc. is! Like tongues of fire..And it?s a (spiritual) fire that burns forever!
The Lord said
all those in the tombs (graves)
will hear His voice and will come forth. (From the graves/tombs.)
..Some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment(Jn.5:28-29). Which is
after the thousand years (Rev.20:5).
And he said, Matthew 25:46 -
these will rise into aionian-kolasis *AGE*LASTING-CORRECTION (translated, everlasting punishment, oye)
but the righteous into aionian life (the millennium).
And the Lord said He will draw all..Those not now, then surely(?) during what the Lord calls
the judgment. The difference via the pattern and doing of God. With all - Greek word, pas - every, all, the whole - becoming
mature in Christ.
Which this whole drama of knowing (understanding) good&evil/Life&death, is this letting the fruits run their course. Proving age to age to age - to
all in heaven and Earth - good from evil (life from not life).
Because just how is God to create genuinely able to think and reason beings,
and keep paradise/perfection intact?
I guess (?) you include in the original garden of life, a visible option of straying.. which straying into imperfection.. Since God - quote, is perfect, unquote - anything other than His will and choices is imperfect. And I believe He is Life (itself)..
Since He is perfect - Mt.5:48 - I figure we can rely upon it that He is doing, and has done, all things as He has, in order to bring about the utter best of all possible
end results. And by observing history and the world (and scripture) I think letting things, for the most part, run their course, and the fruit of imperfection to fully mature.. allowing even some of the worst of things to actually occur.. is actually unavoidable, iF there?s to be true thinking and reasoning ability. With the remedy being Christ Crucified, a strong enough image to pierce, ultimately, every guilty and mortified conscience.
All learning that straying/imperfection can never be a winning game but can only ever be trouble (tribulation), ruin (apocalypse, individual and collective) and ultimately death! (As opposite to Life). But since God iS Life, he lives through and suffers it all.. (as opposed to humans who experience some, die, then next they know they are resurrected, either into THE age/
the thousand years/millennium - (
whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die unto THE age - or will rise into aionian correction (kolasis) and
put on perfection and immortality at the
all made new event that follows that aion
of correction.
The lake of fire John
saw? Not a hell or physical purgatory! :mshock: but 3 occurrences in Revelation/prophecy? (#1) man?s doings, part of what is ?cut short? (?) being man?s modern fiery capability with enough chain reaction to cause the Earth to shake to and fro-Is.24:20; Zech.14:4-5 (#2) a flood of fire at the final defeat of the adversary-Rev.29, and (#3) the all in all, and all made new, event after long ?day? of correction/of being drawn to the Lord just as we all were - 2Pet.3:12-13 ?the elements melt in furious heat, and there is a new heaven and Earth where righteousness/rightness will dwell? - 2Pet.3:10 & 12,13 being like bookend events of the Lord?s long second advent. And event is what Jude 7 says hellfire is! [...Why can?t we see that verse?] Another thing to ponder..
When? are the tares gathered to a burning? (Not chaff, tares.) And next they know.. age of correction -
Day of Atonement..
Fall Holy Days to be fulfilled ? Day of Trumpets (of Rev. & the Lord and the kingdom?s arrival at the last one) - 10days/1000yrs -> Day of Atonement/Kolasis/Correction - 5days/500yrs -> Tabernacles - when
God will now tabernacle with mankind on Earth made anew..Regenesis! Of ALL.
:gsmile:
I have said it before and it bears repeating: there are two kinds of FIRE in the Bible. One is natural fire. The other is supernatural fire, as in the burning bush. The supernatural fire is never "Hellfire" for it is always Godfire. The Fire of the Lake of Fire is the same Fire we read of on the day of Pentecost, the same Fire that we read of the the Revelation, having to do with God's throne.
The Fire's purpose is to refine men, to burn away the impurities, dross, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble. When God can skim off the dross and see His own Reflection in us, He is done God is more than a band-aid, He is a refiner.
Quote from: Shev on December 26, 2019, 05:18:47 AM
One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?
ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.
well, that's cause u are a sensitive, thinking person...sadly, many believers in ECT have little or no problem with the idea of God torturing billions of folk in fire, forever...must be a satanic delusion.
First of all GREAT topic! Praise ABBA for this, I was sent straight into worshipping our God for the good messages here.
I testify that I myself fell victim to Marie's "testimony" and many others like it. And was not around this forum to ask the bold help that was asked here. Thankfully The Lord never allowed my heart to be fully at rest whenever I was willing to fall for the lie of Satan that is Eternal Torment.
It took me at least 2 full years for the last shade of fear and doubt related to this subject to be completely burned out of my heart by Jesus's Spirit! My faith crises that ensued were never related to this anymore but to other personal issues, which thankfully, with God's provision through this community and other fellow Universalist brethren, were dealt with in the Grace of God's Love.
Everything that I could ever say was already said here by so many, and in so many words that I could not find what more to add but if one thing God's Spirit is leading me to say is this: The original words used to define "Hell" or more commonly known as LOF or Gehenna (two different contexts) Are never associated within the Bible with actual eternity, but with the word Aion which is the literal word from which we get the word Eon, which is literally an age. And not that the apostles had no idea how to speak the word for eternity, because they indeed had it, and it was the word A-adios (not sure whether the spelling is right) but nowhere in scripture, that condemnation is linked to, does it has this word next to it but rather the word Aion (or a variation of it).
If the very scripture that God left for us to be our aid in our faith, does not include this abominable faith, and everywhere where God's Character is described in the bible, is associated with such a Good parent that finds any kind of similar concepts of evil as utterly repugnant, then there's no foundation for any of the complex mountain of reasons given to defend this aberration. And all "supernatural" visions of such, (if they are real) are either mental illness related or demonically induced.
Sometimes it is also the human mind trying to process what it saw in the spirit, if the person is authentic, and indeed had an out of body experience of divine origin. The person in cause would only be able to see as much as their hearts would allow them to, which in cases of unexplainable benevolent miracles to accompany a (direct or indirect) vision of hell, could be.
We ought always to remember we are fallen beings and full of imperfections, what's to say our clarity of sight in the spirit is not impaired, especially since it is known all throughout scripture that even the prophets admit what is seen in the spirit is symbolical due to an incomplete ability to clearly see what truly is there.
But most charismatic cases are nothing but satanic babble when trying to defend this rotten doctrine.
Never the less, I love the book written by our brother in Christ, Thomas Talbott and I would love to write my understanding of one favourite part from it which would sound roughly the same but I can't remember word for word (the book is called The inescapable Love of God if you are interested in reading, you can get it on audible, makes it easier)
-Having to consider that God is the God of Truth, then how can He partake in such a fraud as is the forceful bowing of the knee and the confession of the tongue that Jesus is Lord to The Glory of The Father if those confessing unbelievers don't actually mean what they claim at the end of all? (I don't think it was a question apologies for my mistake)
For future information i would love to share with you some of the greatest videos God has brought my way for my fortification perhaps they'll help you too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOhaT0xS3TU&t=1772s&ab_channel=LifeofFaithChristianMinistry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YocjQoP7MRI&ab_channel=FaithandReality1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnYooeNm1Xs&t=1s&ab_channel=RethinkingHell
And all you need to know about the word Aion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p77xXIZyP34&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRsfZBuPIHY&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM-3DYy5pfY&t=2s&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FQJ2AVBZCM&ab_channel=TheTotalVictoryofChrist
Peace and Love from the very heart of our Abba! :cloud9: :dsunny: :cloud9:
i question eternal damnation and some woman kook with a video just proves she has vain imaginations
Quote from: Shev on December 26, 2019, 05:18:47 AM
One thing that does not get talked about much with ET is the state of the believer. What I mean is this: if you are one of that lucky 1% (or whatever number) who are saved, could you really be joyful for the rest of eternity, knowing that there are 99% tossing to and fro in the agony of a ceaseless hell? Wouldn't any good thing feel like concentration camp guards eating a steak dinner? Would it be Christlike to be joyful anyway? Would we not spend the rest of eternity beseeching God to let us take their place, so that all creation is groaning, either in agony of hell, or agony of sympathy? Indeed, the only way I could see that believers could be joyful, is for God to wipe the other 99% from our memory, and if He had to sweep hell under the rug in this manner, would there not be something wrong with the picture?
ET suffers from so many fallacies, and this is just one of a multitude.
God would need to wipe the other 99% from our memory ?...yep...which seems irrational/ incoherent
yes, its beautiful !