Hi everyone,
I was wondering if anyone has heard of this man and his website. His name is Hall V. Worthington and his website is hallvworthington.com
He claims that anyone can hear from God if they get quiet, sit and wait and think on the name of Jesus. Eventually you will hear from Him and He will start to give you specific directions for your life and how to get rid of the sin that has plagued you. He teaches that through doing this God can and will make you holy and cleanse you from all sin in this lifetime, as long as you obey what He is telling you. He claims that the second coming is not a one time event for all people, but an event which happens in every person at different times, when each individual will see Jesus coming in His minds eye on the clouds after they have been purified. This is why Jesus said to those in His lifetime that surely some of them standing there would not taste death until they saw Him coming.
If anyone is willing I would love to hear some feedback about this guy and his theology. His website has a crazy amount of information on it but a lot of it is repetitive.
Thanks a lot,
Holly
HI Holly,
I'll just speak on the issue of being quiet and hearing from the Lord. Far be it for me to poo poo someone's supernatural experiences, and I really mean that. I believe the Spirit is active today and not that the miracles have ceased, only that the Spirit chooses what to do and for what reason.
Having said that, I can say that I have witnessed much paranoia regarding the idea of "listening" to the spirit and being quiet etc. The way I see things now is that the Spirit is not dependent upon us, which is what I get from that notion. When I see Stephen in Acts being stoned, I see that is says first that the Holy Spirit came upon him, not that Stephen allowed the Spirit to do something.
I don't believe the Spirit NEEDS us to do physical things (like being physically silent) in order to guide, lead or speak to us. In fact, I have discovered that the Spirit was leading me in certain things when I wasn't even aware of it. The reason I say this is because it can turn into pseudo New Age spiritualism which can lead to feelings of guilt and inadequacy based on personal feelings and physical signs/wonders rather than walking in trust.
In my old church I witnessed friends in such confusion and fear because they were "feeling" dry, meaning their physical senses weren't activated so they thought God wasn't moving or acting in their lives. However, in my journey so far, I have consciously STOPPED thinking and speaking about God in terms of "God cannot unless I...." and now think of Him in terms of "I am the clay and he is the Potter" and he can do anything he darn well pleases any time he pleases. I have found this to lead to less paranoia and reliance on myself.
:icon_flower: :HeartThrob:
Seth, that was so cool. I feel the same.
Lee Damboise II :thumbsup: :bgdance:
Quote from: Seth on November 24, 2009, 08:46:52 PMI don't believe the Spirit NEEDS us to do physical things (like being physically silent) in order to guide
Indeed. God drag people. He's not waiting for a good opportunity.
Yeah. In all fairness, I didn't read the article, because I don't have the time right now, so he may make that point, but just wanted to say that. Thanks WW and Lee.
:cloud9: I just read the article and I agree with a lot of it. Thanks for posting this; I'm going to read more about George Fox in his journal. I knew the Quakers and the Shakers starting out had His Spirit, but I have never read anything of their writings.
And He is supposed to speak to us; we don't serve a mute God. I can see where what they did might do it; He "appears" to those that are looking for Him and obviously they were looking. Personally, I pray in the Spirit and then listen for Him, but He has at times spoken unsolicited by me. Blessings....
Thanks Cardinal, I totally agree! Let me know once you read a bit more, a lot of what they teach makes so much sense to me but is so different from what I have learned my whole life in the "church".
Thanks everyone else for your comments, I appreciate the feedback. :)
:cloud9: Sure will........I'm going to start reading the pdf. files of George's writings on there. Did you see those? Blessings.....
Yes I did and I've read a little bit and they all seem Spirit led. Hall has so much stuff on his site that it's been hard to read it all!
:cloud9: I've just started on the first one, and yes they do seem Spirit led. Hoping they mention the experiences the guy said were in one of the books he recommended in that same paragraph. Blessings....
Without reading the link (that comes next) there is a lot to "be still and know that I am the Lord" but I am not so sure that that verse pertains to meditating either on Jesus or doing a brain drain to allow "a" spirit to take you where it does hoping that you catch a ride on a good one.
Being focused on the Lord provides a safety net that IMO would be highly recommended for all but the most seasoned in discerning good from evil.
All those really evil faces that you see on far eastern walls or indigenous peoples who practice meditation were seen during those periods of mediation and are the faces of evil spirits seen within the mediators............ I have been there and done that and those who teach mediation warn beginners not to try certain methods that are likely to give a visual look at who is at home within you
Think I will take a look and see what the OP is referring to.
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: I know what you mean Doug and agree, but my initial feeling is that they were not recommending that Eastern form of meditation, but rather meditating on the Lord and His Word I assume (something which I personally do every day).
I think their point is to learn to hear Him, which I wholeheartedly agree with, that we all need to do. I am reading George Fox's writings at present. My :2c: Blessings...
Quote from: Livelystone on November 25, 2009, 04:44:44 AM
Without reading the link (that comes next) there is a lot to "be still and know that I am the Lord"
I sincerely have to agree with this. It is not about meditating. The heart is deceitful above all things. Jeremiah 17:9
Plus we all know the power of the spoken word, but what does the Word say about our thoughts? For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts... Matthew 15:19
You will never truly enter in if you cannot be silent. Don't get me wrong, I'm as charismatic as the next person, but charismatics have the hardest time being silent before the Lord. Your mouth and mind must be quiet. Is there anything that you can possibly say or think that will impress the Lord? You can praise Him all day long and His presence may come near, but that is not entering in! Essentially that is Him coming into your presence, but it should be our goal to be in His presence. *Oh draw me Lord*
Think about it this way. If you are going to have an audience with a King, does that King come to you? No, first you petition Him, and then if He accepts, you are invited, but you still must be silent unless spoken to. It is about a Holy reverence.
I don't know anything about the author first mentioned, but I do know the author and finisher of my faith....
Blessings on you! :icon_flower:
:cloud9: Amen, good points........ :thumbsup:
Quote from: Cardinal on November 25, 2009, 04:51:40 AM
:cloud9: I know what you mean Doug and agree, but my initial feeling is that they were not recommending that Eastern form of meditation, but rather meditating on the Lord and His Word I assume (something which I personally do every day).
I think their point is to learn to hear Him, which I wholeheartedly agree with, that we all need to do. I am reading George Fox's writings at present. My :2c: Blessings...
I understand your point and agree
I have seen this site before and a lot of it sounds good....... purify this and purify that as Jesus removes the sin from you
I disagree and although like many others who mean well this message of making something that is bad become something good is all wrong.
We are but earthen vessels that are the home of whatever spirit(s) we have embraced and allowed to set up shop within. If Christ is at the helm like He was when he rode the foal of the ass directing his steps to Jerusalem we will do according to the Lord........ however if He is not at the helm we will remain stubborn like the mother ass who although was also set loose was not led by Jesus back to Jerusalem!!!
Are you getting my point?
These folks would have you believe that you can be changed but like Paul I say nay........ what is dark is dark and darkness can NEVER become light......... darkness is displaced by light and as long as the light remains the darkness will stay away no matter how dark the darkness is!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOUR OLD MAN IS NEVER CHANGED. HE WILL ALWAYS WANT THE SAME THINGS HE DID BEFORE YOU MET CHRIST
IT IS CHRIST WHO IS THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH AND IT IS CHRIST WHO MUST BE ALIVE ANE WELL IN OUR HEARTS RATHER THAN BEING CRUCIFIED AFRESH AS HE SO OFTEN IS.
To those who have not been taught from above this site may well be very appealing however if I can talk someone away from this site then someone else will call them back so as trhe saying goes "buyer beware" !
There is a lot of truth here but there is also a lot of untruth. It is not good to stay focussed on your sins and why should you???????
Jesus has promised to forgive you and to forget your sins for evermore............. THIS SITE IS :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
But I am afraid some will pay a hefty price before they come to understand that
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: I've only read the first page and the preface of the writings of George Fox at this point in time, Doug, so I don't think that qualifies me to say much more than; so far what I have read is about sanctification thru the Spirit, which is the works of the HG in the inner court realm, so nothing wrong with that. But for sure, if I read something that sets off an alarm, I'll share that, too. Blessings.....
:cloud9: If you open the pdf. files of George Fox's journals, read page 42, Doug.......
Hi Holly, (such a lovely name!)
I've not checked out the link you posted, but I wanted to say that nothing you shared from there sounds odd to me. It is essential for me to meditate on the things of God, to think on His words. It's like eating and breathing really. Granted, there are times when the Spirit speaks to me when I have not been thinking about anything - for instance I've had a few epiphanies and visions that I believe are from God just upon awakening from sleep in the morning. Other times I will be thinking on Him (which is most of the time) while I'm doing chores, i.e. mowing the lawn and the Lord will teach me something I had not known before. I like to be quiet (away from crowds) and find it a privilege to have the time to learn of Christ. The following are a few scriptures which come to mind just now...
Jeremiah 33:3 "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not"
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.
Col 3:1-2) ... set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. (2) Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
Quote from: Cardinal on November 25, 2009, 06:17:09 AM
:cloud9: I've only read the first page and the preface of the writings of George Fox at this point in time, Doug, so I don't think that qualifies me to say much more than; so far what I have read is about sanctification thru the Spirit, which is the works of the HG in the inner court realm, so nothing wrong with that. But for sure, if I read something that sets off an alarm, I'll share that, too. Blessings.....
I agree. What little I was able to read, that is what I got from it too. :thumbsup:
Nothing wrong with "purify thy hearts thy double minded." That's the gospel of the kingdom, salvation through sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:13-15). I didn't see anything in there inconsistent with that so far.
Wow, thank you all for your responses and all the feedback! :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Livelystone on November 25, 2009, 04:44:44 AM
All those really evil faces that you see on far eastern walls or indigenous peoples who practice meditation were seen during those periods of mediation and are the faces of evil spirits seen within the mediators............ I have been there and done that and those who teach mediation warn beginners not to try certain methods that are likely to give a visual look at who is at home within you
I am not familiar with eastern forms of meditation, but the author does warn against any negative thoughts or instruction, and says to only obey what you know is from the Lord and what you already know lines up with the Bible and His prior instructions. He gives his own personal experiences with evil spirits and warns what to watch out for.
Doug, the author speaks of Christ slaying the old man within us and dispelling the darkness with light, just as you said. One thing that he also points out (which btw Gary Amirault also pointed out) is that the Word of God is not the Bible, the Word of God is Christ and we must hear His words. A person can quote the Bible and not necessarily be speaking the Words of God. (Ex. terrorists.)
Raggedy Anne, thanks! I find it interesting that you've had some epiphanies from God first thing upon waking. Hall and George Fox actually both mention that. It sounds to me like you already practice the type of meditation that this site is speaking of. :)
Thanks again everyone, and please continue to share your thoughts as you read, it is very helpful!
Quote from: lomarah on November 25, 2009, 07:39:31 PM
Wow, thank you all for your responses and all the feedback! :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Livelystone on November 25, 2009, 04:44:44 AM
All those really evil faces that you see on far eastern walls or indigenous peoples who practice meditation were seen during those periods of mediation and are the faces of evil spirits seen within the mediators............ I have been there and done that and those who teach mediation warn beginners not to try certain methods that are likely to give a visual look at who is at home within you
I am not familiar with eastern forms of meditation, but the author does warn against any negative thoughts or instruction, and says to only obey what you know is from the Lord and what you already know lines up with the Bible and His prior instructions. He gives his own personal experiences with evil spirits and warns what to watch out for.
Doug, the author speaks of Christ slaying the old man within us and dispelling the darkness with light, just as you said. One thing that he also points out (which btw Gary Amirault also pointed out) is that the Word of God is not the Bible, the Word of God is Christ and we must hear His words. A person can quote the Bible and not necessarily be speaking the Words of God. (Ex. terrorists.)
Hello Lomarah
God's Word is spirit and the Bible is God's Word........ any word that we "hear" that does not conform to the message of God as recorded in His Holy Bible is not from God........ at least not the God whom we are to serve. On the other hand someone can quote the Bible and still be 180 degrees in the other direction from the truth and it does not take a terrorist to do so. The main reason for God's Glory not being seen in the church today is because of the lack of truth being taught by the current five fold ministry.
The Bible is a diamond mine but the the words of man are coal mines that produce some diamonds amongst a lot of darkness...... the site talked about in this thread is no different.
When I first looked at how this site appeared in the search mode it had a reference to the fallacy of John 3:16 and that is where I first went to within this site. IMO the begining was excellent and I hope that many more will come to realize that the words translated in Jn.3:16 do say "should not perish" rather than "shall not perish" like many of the supposed "better translations" have it recorded.
The following paragraphs on obedience were also very good and we are REQUIRED to become Holy as our Father in Heaven is Holy but then when they started in on how that is to be accomplished they missed the boat completely
Trying to do what Israel failed to do and completely destroy the people that became the "thorns in our flesh" that are the messengers of Satan is not going to happen within us anymore than it did within either Paul or the Israelites. Neither is Christ going to kill them for you even if you do die daily.
When you die daily you are overcoming your flesh through not yielding to it.......... that and the knowledge spoken of in He 6.1-3 as well as the promise of God that His Laws and Word are true (if one studies to know the spiritual aspect of God's Law) all together will overcome as He overcame. The desire of the flesh of Jesus was to live and not die and if we will mortify the thoughts and desires of our flesh then we too are crucified with Christ just like Paul who was still tempted by the thorn that was the law of sin living in his flesh.
The middle of Roman makes very clear that the law of sin (NOT THE LAW OF MOSES!) was very alive and living in his members just as it was in later on in 2nd Corr 12 when he asked God three times to remove it........ God did not remove it from him anymore than He will for you or for me....... at least not yet.
The author of this site would have Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit to purify your spirit but that will never happen and that you can take to the bank........ The jews tried that through the law and failed and so do christians today who try to overcome Satan by destroying him one sin at a time through the Holy Spirit. That my dear sister is the broad way of destruction that does have some merits in the way of will worship but in the end the best that it can accomplish is for a christian to become as righteous Abel who still lives by earthly blood rather than the heavenly blood that was shed for us so that we may have life eternal.
Only God can increase the light (faith) in you and He exists between Ge.1 and Re.22.......... Just as the first coming of the Begotten Son was the Word made flesh so it will be again at the manifestation of His sons. He and the truth of His Word is the light that displaces all darkness and He alone is the truth but as long as our beliefs of him are not true the darkness will remain in us.
Christ is a seed that only grows into a fruit baring tree through being fed heavenly food. Being "dung" such as we are through the words and traditions of man will never produce fruit acceptable to God and the method that this site teaches is just "another year of dung" as recorded in parable in Luke 13 6-9.
The Scriptures tell us that the time will come when every man will not teach his neighbor but all will learn from Him. He is the narrow way and the light that displaces all the darkness of sin......... why fight your enemies one at a time when He has already defeated them all. What you, me and everyone else needs to do is learn what allows Him to appear in our hearts unto all the world and then as the saying goes........... HOLD THAT THOUGHT!!!
Blessings
Doug
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 25, 2009, 09:20:42 AM
It is essential for me to meditate on the things of God, to think on His words. It's like eating and breathing really. Granted, there are times when the Spirit speaks to me when I have not been thinking about anything - for instance I've had a few epiphanies and visions that I believe are from God just upon awakening from sleep in the morning. Other times I will be thinking on Him (which is most of the time) while I'm doing chores, i.e. mowing the lawn and the Lord will teach me something I had not known before. I like to be quiet (away from crowds) and find it a privilege to have the time to learn of Christ. The following are a few scriptures which come to mind just now...
Jeremiah 33:3 "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not"
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.
Col 3:1-2) ... set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. (2) Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
A sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality
or essential meaning of something, is usually initiated by
a simple, homely, commonplace occurrence or experience.
(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1372/1372754o1i6zdnt3f.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
(I wish the grass required no maintenance)
Thank you for that post, Anne.
Speaking from my own experience. I agree with both ways. Sitting before the Lord and coming into His presence and hearing from Him. But at the same time "He does not need us to do that" in order for the Holy Spirit to work in our lives and communicate to us or through us. There has been many times when meditating on the Lord when I will receive from Him. But then there will be times when I will not be physically sitting before Him. Sometimes life gets so busy that I hardly have time to to think let alone anything else but the Lord always shows me in one way or another that He is right there. Sometimes I feel like "even if I did nothing" I will still receive from Him. I will still know He is there. I will still get reassured that "He doesn't need us to do anything". But I do believe that "spiritual growth" comes with walking in the Spirit. Spending time in the Spirit, Being obediant to the Spirit. The temple in the wilderness is an example of our spiritual growth. As we move from the outer court to the inner court etc till we come to the "Holy of Holies". Spiritually we can only enter into this place through spending time "in His Presense". As we go deeper and deeper. We will see and hear in the spiritual realm. Jesus is our example. He often went off alone to "be in the Father's presence".
I believe it is vitally important to our spiritual growth. I know if I go long periods of time and I begin to wonder , then the Lord always shows me in some way. He is still there leading me.
Nothing <<< not even ourselves can separate us from the Love of God.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
There are two classes of psychical phenomena, via movens and via recipiens. Put another way, the soul functions in two ways: either actively and assertively or passively and receptively. These states belong to us as human beings made in the image of God, however fallen. People have been distracted by either learning how to use their souls, as if technique was the aim, or, they get taught that certain states are superior to others. Some even teach a passive or quieted mind is morally wrong, assuming it is only a practice of eastern philosophy. Others promote passivity as "the" way. Some think of prayer as only intense emotion, rigorous thought and earnest, even athletic expression. Others consider humility to be inherent in the cessation of all motions of the self placed before God in waiting. Without one side against the other, all these things belong to us all. Yet, however cultivated our psyche is, it is not God.
God does His own thing. He likes to do new things. You cannot prepare for something new. God expresses Himself as He wills to us. Quite apart from any manipulations by our own will, God acts. He delights to be seen and admired. Yet, to come to God, we "must believe that He is, and that He is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Our dilgent seeking is a cause superceded by God's own commitment to intimacy with us. He does respond to us. "Acknowledge Him in all your ways."
In the days of Abraham He was known as a mother, El Shaddai. Israel the youth was in trouble and mature enough for the Father to take by the hand and lead out of Egypt. Then He gave us His instruction. Those of us in the reality continued to grow in the midst of a nation that forsook their own mercy, following lying vanities instead.
In this new covenant it is more intimate than when He took us by the hand to lead us out. He is bringing us into His own nature. It is not an external leading, but He dwells in union with us, sharing the same body with us. He is writing in our hearts and minds His law by His Spirit. So we delight in and freely choose what He would and we understand and approve of His will, without needing Him to exercise authority over us.
The Logos is both written and incarnate, between which there is no hostility. The Word is the Image and Likeness of God. The Word is the glory that rests upon the Mercy Throne where the wings of the Cherub and Cheruba kiss. We are begotten by the living seed of the Word of God. We have the mind of Christ.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Peacemaker,
So funny. I may need one of those redneck lawn mowers in the next couple of years.
Thanks -
Anne