mystery of iniquity

[marie glen]

I can be real good at nagging myself about certain things. Once in a while I'll get an idea in my head, an interpretation of scripture, that just won't let go. My last one was the Gnostics being responsible for hell.. well I didn't find a direct connection, per se, but did find it originally was pre-Christian. Gnosticism that is, so I guess the 'Christian' gnosticism was a branch of it?

Lately I've gotten it into my head that, somehow, atheism is the "mystery of iniquity" Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. In my search I did find what looks like a really good iBook of the writings of the early church fathers! Called "The Ante Nicene Fathers" So I bought volume one for a dollar! There is nine volumes..

I came across a remark in a google search list that said "Understanding the Mystery of Iniquity and the Horror of Sin". Ding dong! That was it! So although the Gnostics - whom it was that Paul was warning against, may not have been ultimately, atheist.. or didn't develop an atheistic branch of Gnosticism, the two are related, in that they encourage wayward living.

The Gnostics had branches which were pretty loose in their living.. and some were very ascetic and strict. The license sects figured since matter was evil, so eating, sleeping, etc, all evil.. so what did it matter?

They thought - or so I read today - that there was a superconsciousness energy which in ignorance in some sort of wayward spark, consciousness got locked into matter.. fell, and so gnosis, Greek for knowledge as we know, usually known by only a select few.. was what would set one free. They believed Jesus had given this secret special knowledge privately to certain select ones (disciples?)

So I guess the way I'm thinking of it is whatever, in whatever age or times, that helps to cause or encourage sin, especially habitual and lifestyle, is (a) mystery of iniquity.

My other thought about 2 Thess. 2 is verse 4 (man of sin, son of perdition) "who opposes and exalts himself" (atheism's man? is the higher power /most 'evolved' decides good and evil) "above all that is called God or is worshipped, so that he seats himself as God" (even one day?) "in the temple of God" (literally or metaphorically?) "showing himself to be God" - that really smacks of moder man's atheism to me!

How's it related to UR? Well maybe not verse 4/man of sin so much.. but I still find myself 'blaming' that ever popular gnosticism for the pre-Christian ideas blended with God's gospel/glad tidings/happy message!

Though, of course, all is perfect.. all is unfolding according to God's perfect plans and engineering.. The veil(s), we can be sure, are all serving His (perfect) purpose. :thumbsup:
thanks for reading my rambling,
sister g - (glenda marie)
:Peace2:
P.S. - have a good weekend!

[anti_nietzsche]

I think the mystery of evil has the problem that we cannot fully understand and do away with it. Some of it is objectively hard to remove from the world, other things cannot even be entertained in thought for long. So many hidden loops and traps. For example, when I examined hinduism at first I was amazed by this religion. But it turned out their gods are evil spirits only and there was sacrifice of people in their history too. And other evils like childrape, I mean, how can a raper be understood? It's hard to lead such people to repentance and often they just get locked away. Evil is not stronger than good, but our hearts can be weak and not bear all the violence, deceit, fear and horror. We often need to grow in Christ, but this is difficult growth and we need holiness and peace in our minds.

[marie glen]

Amen! "holiness and peace in our minds" which I think only God's Spirit and grace can give and accomplish.. I find myself thinking that ultimatelyeven the tiniest grain of waywardness (imperfection) is a horror because of the potential., and that all and every rational creature must learn this and fully understand it.. and experience is said to be the 'best teacher'.

And hence, our Heavenly Father, in order to bring about the utter best, has decreed we all learn it and is writing it upon our hearts and very being. I started to think this way about 20 years ago when my son asked me "why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden and gee isn't it great we get to be an ant farm!"

Well short answer, we're not an ant farm.. whole problem in a nutshell..

If God is life itself, and I think He is.. what else would be or could be? Since "in the beginning... God.."

And I think He is perfection. The Pandora's box being that any creature who can think can make choices. But what occurs if or once one even thinks anything other than what He chooses? They become imperfect, the opposite of life. Of course non Christian ideas mixed into our theology has confused this (imo:) truth.

I wasn't happy w/ my answers to my son, so I prayed for better ones, and wham! Is kind of how they came to me.. and the series ended in a question - " why did God wait so (very) long and not only create the universe and man and woman only after the first (bound to occur) rebel thought, but after that thought (in the adversary) had ripened into outright sedition and revolt? (Didn't He know what would happen? Of course He did!!) It seemed to me He did it just that way so all would take this unavoidable journey / lesson, all together, at once.. lest one wander away now.. another later.. another later .. etc, etc.. taking virtually 'forever'. Unavoidable lesson that is, if we're to have thinking ability.

Yep.. I think any tiny grain of imperfection (death, evil, untruth) has an abyss and bottomless pit of potential. And this is being proven to us. Another question back then popped into my head.. "how would I, you, anyone - go about creating an un-breakable paradise/ perfection? And also, what was His other option(s) No rational creatures? ...ever?

Those were my thoughts and understanding.. I was a pretty solid and happy believer before this 'understanding', not having learned the big false doctrines, tho I was aware of them.. but afterwards? wow. And then too after coming to tentmaker and finding and conversing with others, again wow. "Yea tho we walk through the valley of death.. He is with us.."

Yes horrible things occur in this world of imperfection.. things we cringe to even think if.. others are going through.. just think, I once thought my own sufferings to be worse than anyone's.. not hardly..