Lol i was just thinking of something.
If unbelief is sin, and Jesus died for ALL sins, then he must have died for the sin of unbelief!
I've had that thought too. Makes sense to me and gives me some comfort.
cp
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 11:01:00 PM
Lol i was just thinking of something.
If unbelief is sin, and Jesus died for ALL sins, then he must have died for the sin of unbelief!
Yes he died for the sin of unbelief, but to deliver people from that sin so they could believe and receive healing. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 01:14:13 AM
Yes he died for the sin of unbelief, but to deliver people from that sin so they could believe and receive healing. :HeartThrob:
Amen, Seth.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 01, 2009, 01:37:42 AM
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Yes, amen. The mercy is manifested in deliverance, not allowing sin to continue in anyone. That is how the cross is the judgment of the whole world. What happened on the cross? The death of the flesh. Everyone is to be baptized by the Holy Spirit and planted together with Christ in that death of the flesh, for deliverance.
In other words: nobody is to be saved in sin, but from sin. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: jabcat on October 01, 2009, 01:31:04 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 01:14:13 AM
Yes he died for the sin of unbelief, but to deliver people from that sin so they could believe and receive healing. :HeartThrob:
Amen, Seth.
Thank you brother. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 01:43:09 AM
Yes, amen. The mercy is manifested in deliverance, not allowing sin to continue in anyone. That is how the cross is the judgment of the whole world. What happened on the cross? The death of the flesh. Everyone is to be baptized by the Holy Spirit and planted together with Christ in that death of the flesh, for deliverance.
In other words: nobody is to be saved in sin, but from sin. :HeartThrob:
Amen again. Just received a daily mailing from Thomas Kissinger that includes this;
"Ephesians 2:8-9... 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Once we realize that God is the author and finisher of our faith we have no room to boast...NONE!
It takes the drawing power of the Spirit of God to justify, sanctify, and glorify us. With all of this being said, though, we must still guard going to the extreme of fatalism in our understanding of God. The point in all of this, though, is:
Even though God calls us alongside Him to participate in Who He is and what He accomplished, and that He does give us a will to make choices under the umbrella of His sovereignty, it all starts and ends with God's grace that has been extended to us through the Lord Jesus Christ! Even though our will and choices (faith) do play some part in [the] process, by learning to submit and yield to God's will, God's grace is still the deciding factor in our deliverance and salvation. It is by GRACE through faith. It is the GIFT of God! Hallelujah! Thomas"
By grace, His gift of salvation is free. But as sons, He changes us from the inside out, as His Spirit convicts us, teaches us, and draws us closer to Him. As we live in Him, our flesh is painfully crucified and brought more and more into His will. It hurts and is difficult. He has been dealing with me today about accepting His will and not (even subconsciously) insisting on my own. Boy, I'm not very good at that at all. But God, the Author and Finisher of our faith, keeps working on us. Better to be chastised/disciplined as sons now than stand before Him later in disobedience. I'm not there yet, He's still working on me :thumbsup:.
James.
Quote from: jabcat on October 01, 2009, 01:53:57 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 01:43:09 AM
Yes, amen. The mercy is manifested in deliverance, not allowing sin to continue in anyone. That is how the cross is the judgment of the whole world. What happened on the cross? The death of the flesh. Everyone is to be baptized by the Holy Spirit and planted together with Christ in that death of the flesh, for deliverance.
In other words: nobody is to be saved in sin, but from sin. :HeartThrob:
Amen again. Just received a daily mailing from Thomas Kissinger that includes this;
"Ephesians 2:8-9... 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Once we realize that God is the author and finisher of our faith we have no room to boast...NONE! It takes the drawing power of the Spirit of God to justify, sanctify, and glorify us. With all of this being said, though, we must still guard going to the extreme of fatalism in our understanding of God. The point in all of this, though, is: Even though God calls us alongside Him to participate in Who He is and what He accomplished, and that He does give us a will to make choices under the umbrella of His sovereignty, it all starts and ends with God's grace that has been extended to us through the Lord Jesus Christ! Even though our will and choices (faith) do play some part in [the] process, by learning to submit and yield to God's will, God's grace is still the deciding factor in our deliverance and salvation. It is by GRACE through faith. It is the GIFT of God! Hallelujah! Thomas"
By grace, His gift of salvation is free. But as sons, He changes us from the inside out, as His Spirit convicts us, teaches us, and draws us closer to Him. As we live in Him, our flesh is painfully crucified and brought more and more into His will. It hurts and is difficult. He has been dealing with me today about accepting His will and not (even subconsciously) insisting on my own. Boy, I'm not very good at that at all. But God, the Author and Finisher of our faith, keeps working on us. Better to be chastised/disciplined as sons now than stand before Him later in disobedience. I'm not there yet, He's still working on me :thumbsup:.
James.
I heard it put humorously this way: "Grace gives us a spanking. Free of charge. Come back for more."
The Lord's chastening seems grievous nevertheless afterward yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
Ha! Well, He's a (GREAT BIG, STRONG) Father. Although I think I do sometimes, we're told in scripture to not despise His chastening, it shows you're being dealt with as a son, as His child. Only by grace. It's humbling, isn't it?
P.S. And I do agree all our unbelief will in fact change to complete belief. He has made the provision and is bringing it about. Because He WILL be All in All. :thumbsup:
Good works, Jab, good works. :2thumbs:
:handshake:
Quote from: jabcat on October 01, 2009, 01:53:57 AM
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 01:43:09 AM
Yes, amen. The mercy is manifested in deliverance, not allowing sin to continue in anyone. That is how the cross is the judgment of the whole world. What happened on the cross? The death of the flesh. Everyone is to be baptized by the Holy Spirit and planted together with Christ in that death of the flesh, for deliverance.
In other words: nobody is to be saved in sin, but from sin. :HeartThrob:
Amen again. Just received a daily mailing from Thomas Kissinger that includes this;
"Ephesians 2:8-9... 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Once we realize that God is the author and finisher of our faith we have no room to boast...NONE! It takes the drawing power of the Spirit of God to justify, sanctify, and glorify us. With all of this being said, though, we must still guard going to the extreme of fatalism in our understanding of God. The point in all of this, though, is: Even though God calls us alongside Him to participate in Who He is and what He accomplished, and that He does give us a will to make choices under the umbrella of His sovereignty, it all starts and ends with God's grace that has been extended to us through the Lord Jesus Christ! Even though our will and choices (faith) do play some part in [the] process, by learning to submit and yield to God's will, God's grace is still the deciding factor in our deliverance and salvation. It is by GRACE through faith. It is the GIFT of God! Hallelujah! Thomas"
By grace, His gift of salvation is free. But as sons, He changes us from the inside out, as His Spirit convicts us, teaches us, and draws us closer to Him. As we live in Him, our flesh is painfully crucified and brought more and more into His will. It hurts and is difficult. He has been dealing with me today about accepting His will and not (even subconsciously) insisting on my own. Boy, I'm not very good at that at all. But God, the Author and Finisher of our faith, keeps working on us. Better to be chastised/disciplined as sons now than stand before Him later in disobedience. I'm not there yet, He's still working on me :thumbsup:.
James.
Grace and peace and Amen!
A couple of days ago I was in and out of the car running various errands for a few hours, and the d.j. for the christian station kept playing the same segment from a sermon. The pastor of the sermon was preaching on this verse:
" For it is God who works in you you both to will and do his good pleasure" Phil 2-13
I heard it about three of four times that day ( which me thinks is no coincidence). Then came home and read an article from J. Preston Eby about Jesus being the pattern Son for all man, and it all kind of came together.Our flesh can and will only hinder. When all is said and done, we will have absolutely nothing to boast about. We will just be in humility and awe.
Blessings
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 11:01:00 PM
Lol i was just thinking of something.
If unbelief is sin, and Jesus died for ALL sins, then he must have died for the sin of unbelief!
Yep, yep! How else could he be the Savior of the WHOLE world, unless he ALSO died for the sins of the WHOLE world?? Indeed, he did, and that's the assurance. He is the Savior of ALL men , even unbelievers, and especially (but NOT exclusively) of believers! :bigGrin:
Proverbs 10:12:
Hatred stirs up dissension,
but
LOVE covers over
ALL wrongs.
Romans 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Amen. God gives the faith to believe on/trust in Jesus as our Savior. The Holy Spirit then empowers us to walk in the newness of His life - we can't do the works ourselves, in our own power. It takes the Spirit of Christ entering into us and doing it through us, once born into Him by belief through God-given faith. IMO, works are a result and evidence of God justifying/counting faith for righteousness, not a means for us to try to somehow obtain that righteousness. Even our submitting to His will in our life, learning to be obedient, is still a work of Calvary and only as in Him we live and move and have our being - gifts from God.
"Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;" Philippians 1:6.
God's blessing, James.
Interesting too: man can literally do nothing to save himself. It's all up to God to save man. God is willing ALL men to be saved. Therefore: God WILL save ALL men. :bgdance:
I'm beginning to wonder if in one sense or another, he's already saved us, and for us to be "saved" means to simply realize this fact.
:cloud9: I had the same revelation, Tim. Blessings....
QuoteI'm beginning to wonder if in one sense or another, he's already saved us, and for us to be "saved" means to simply realize this fact.
I see it like this: He has reconciled the world, and therefore has predestined all to be saved (from sin) by his life, as a free gift.
Quote from: Tim B on October 01, 2009, 09:27:26 PM
Interesting too: man can literally do nothing to save himself. It's all up to God to save man.
Exactly.
Romans 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Salvation from sin is realized in being conformed to the image of His Son, which is a predestinated end-result according to election, and not according to man's working. However the conforming that God does has a noticeable effect on them who discontinue in sin and become conformed to good works.
Until someone is saved from sin, they are not saved from sin. Until someone is delivered out of Egypt, in Egypt they stay.
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 10:17:30 PM
Until someone is saved from sin, they are not saved from sin. Until someone is delivered out of Egypt, in Egypt they stay.
:cloud9: That's true, Seth. Good thing the Father sent an angel of the Lord to tell them to put Jesus in Egypt (type of flesh) until Herod (type of carnal mind) was dead, so we wouldn't be alone. :winkgrin: Father hid Him in the last place carnally minded man would look........IN MAN. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on October 01, 2009, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Seth on October 01, 2009, 10:17:30 PM
Until someone is saved from sin, they are not saved from sin. Until someone is delivered out of Egypt, in Egypt they stay.
:cloud9: That's true, Seth. Good thing the Father sent an angel of the Lord to tell them to put Jesus in Egypt (type of flesh) until Herod (type of carnal mind) was dead, so we wouldn't be alone. :winkgrin: Father hid Him in the last place carnally minded man would look........IN MAN. Blessings....
:thumbsup:
I am glad people in UR are speaking this. Some of UR says that "Israel" is saved from slavery in Egypt by nothing more than a declaration. They should re-read Exodus. :laughing7:
10 to 12 declarations, wasn't it? And about 10 miracles to emphasize He was having it His way, as confirmations of those declarations. Getting folks out of Egypt's easier than getting 'em not to croak on the way to the Promised Land. He puts up with unbelief in Egypt while He's getting you delivered that He'll open the ground and send snakes after you for in the wilderness. Doesn't say anything about the plagues on Egypt being Him swearing in His wrath. But He swore in His wrath at those in the wilderness that wouldn't go in that they would by no means enter into His rest. Getting out of Egypt is easy. Not going to Hell is hard.
Fascinating how Joseph was made second-in-command only to Pharaoh himself over all of Egypt and seduced by his wife who then made a false ACCUSATION!
Quote from: martincisneros on October 01, 2009, 10:34:19 PM
10 to 12 declarations, wasn't it? And about 10 miracles to emphasize He was having it His way, as confirmations of those declarations. Getting folks out of Egypt's easier than getting 'em not to croak on the way to the Promised Land. He puts up with unbelief in Egypt while He's getting you delivered that He'll open the ground and send snakes after you for in the wilderness. Doesn't say anything about the plagues on Egypt being Him swearing in His wrath. But He swore in His wrath at those in the wilderness that wouldn't go in that they would by no means enter into His rest. Getting out of Egypt is easy. Not going to Hell is hard.
Hi Martin, by 10 declarations, do you mean 10 demands upon the Pharoah to set his people free? And when those miracles had their time, God physically removed them from the land. THAT is being set free.
I see getting out of Egypt and entering the Promised Land as a simultaneous life long process, neither being particularly easy....on the flesh. Both the life and death of Christ works in our flesh to set our minds free from Pharoah.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on October 01, 2009, 10:37:30 PMFascinating how Joseph was made second-in-command only to Pharaoh himself over all of Egypt and seduced by his wife who then made a false ACCUSATION!
Yeah, Hell is the indirect way to Paradise. Some try to say that you wind up appreciating it more. But no, I'd of appreciated His same blessing that's on me now at 13yrs old that I'm now appreciating decades later. There's absolutely no virtue in burning in Hell for years. In some ways, the humiliation of His goodness would have been more pronounced then than now. Have to guard yourself after having been thru too much that when joy comes in the morning that you don't fall hard into "I deserve this after all He's put me thru, or allowed me to go thru." Fighting that one right now tooth and nail, daily. Nothing would have been a temptation to have felt "deserved" two years ago and back, but now that the iniquity of pain was made full, and absolutely all things are honestly mine in this instant, right now, I find myself rebuking myself [moment by moment] that this isn't a matter of him who's willed or run, but of Him Who's finally shown mercy, as I'm being comforted, healed, restored to joy unspeakable; full of glory and brought to peace and Jeremiah 33:9.
I had some more revelation to talk about regarding Egypt from this convo.
Being delivered from Egypt can only be considered easy, if we forget that WE are Egypt. WE are the chiefest of sinners along with Paul. Yet there is a little portion of the land in Egypt (us) that wants to be set free, wants to do good and serve the Lord.
However, when God gives his 10 commands (the law), which harden, and 10 miracles/plagues (self-righteous works of the law), which harden more, the Pharaoh refuses to set that little land free. The slaves want out, but they are surrounded by frogs, darkness, boils, bloody rotten rivers, etc as a result of the miracle/plagues.
However, when the angel of death puts the Pharoah's son to death (since the 10 commands and plagues were fruitless in deliverance), Pharoah GRIEVES. Despite that, he is forced to release the slaves, so that another Son can take his rightful place.
Until we are perfected, Pharoah always grieves within us, as God continues to judge Egypt and replace the first son with the second Son as his blood is painted in the door of our hearts according to grace (seeing as how Jesus demands that we drink his blood).
We are also dependent on Christ for courage and strength out of Egypt.
When Moses led the people out to the Red Sea and they reached a dead end, did not the Isrealites complain, saying" Why did you bring us out here to die, when we desired to stay in Egypt?' (paraprhasing). We get comfortable in our bondage, as ridiculous as it sounds. It takes the God's faith in us to take those leaps forward, those which we are unable to do in our cowardly flesh.
:thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Amen, good posts guys :thumbsup: Blessings....