1 Corinthians 15:22-28 are some of the passages uni's say are universal in its context as God being All in All. My question where do the unbelievers fit into these passages if these passages refer not only to the resurrection of man but the universal reconciliation of all men as well? I see at least 2 passages that mention the order of those who will be resurrected:
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
1 Cor 15:23-But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ's, at his coming.
1 Cor 15:24- Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
The bolded above are the ones mentioned that will be resurrected in 1 Cor 15:23. There is no mention of unbelievers in that verse and in verse 24 it says the end comes. Now some commentators say that "then the end comes" is referring to the unbelievers being resurrected but I don't see how unless I'm missing something? Does "then the end comes" refer to the resurrected unbelievers and if not where do unbelievers fit into this context?
:Chinscratch: Good questions.. Let's examine the verses -
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 - I haven't been able to find somewhere to copy/paste an interlinear word by word translation, but this version seems closest to me (usually) so I like to use it -
Berean Literal Bible - 22 - For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
[the interlinear - http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-22.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-22.htm)]
23 - But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
:Chinscratch: doesn't say both.. but I don't know if that matters..
[ http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-23.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-23.htm)] ("the firstfruit Christ, then those of Christ at the coming of Him")
24 - then the end, when He shall hand over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He shall have annulled all dominion, and all authority and power. - [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-24.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-24.htm)
:Chinscratch: when does that happen? when He hands over the Kingdom to the Father.. and has
I'm thinking surely that would be in Revelation, especially chapter 21, 3-5 -
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful.
25 - For it behooves Him (Jesus) to reign until He shall have put all the enemies under His feet. [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-25.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-25.htm)
26 - The last enemy to be abolished is death. [[The] last enemy annulled [is] death.[/i]"]http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-26.htm - "[The] last enemy annulled [is] death." (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-26.htm%20-%20"%5Bi)
:Chinscratch: So what I'm thinking comes next (to study) is what does the bible say occurs in between Jesus' return and the time when God Himself comes to the (made new) planet and will now "Tabernacle" with mankind upon Earth?
We know when Jesus returns begins His long second advent, which begins with His millennial kingdom and reign on earth. - Zechariah 14:4 describes for us "In that day His feet shall come to be upon Mt of Olives.. and it will split in two". [Likely the "great earthquake of that day.]
But "the rest of the dead" (not yet saved) "will not come to life until after the thousand years" (millennium).
This is before the time when God the Father's very throne comes to Earth and He says "Behold I make all things new".
Christian Universalists notice these words "all" as in "behold I make all things new" and "puts all things under His feet, i.e, has subdued all things".
And then of course - when all is said and done - the Father, being "all, in all".
27 - For "He has put in subjection all things under His feet." But when, to say, that all things have been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all things to Him is excepted. ["To say" is from the interlinear, I replaced in the verse, from the Berean Literal Bible - http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-27.htm (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-27.htm)]
[http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-27.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-27.htm)
uh oh, I'm confused now.. where was I?
verse 28 - Now when all things shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One - having put in subjection - all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. ...Jesus subjects Himself to the Father, who is the One who subjected all things under Him/Jesus. (Until all things are subdued. The last enemy vanquished, death.)
[I like the interlinear - http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-28.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-28.htm)]
Paul, in context is talking about resurrection. So it's interesting re-reading the context.
I have a theory, and don't know if I first read it, or a hint of it somewhere.. or how I came to have the theory, but I can't help thinking since Jesus is our Passover Lamb, is our Unleavened (Daily) Bread, and is "the" Firstfruit - which are the names of the Spring Holy Days God gave to the very young Israel nation in Leviticus 23.
So if His first advent fulfilled those holy days, isn't it logical (i ask myself, and sometimes others) that those fall holy days given by God to Israel in Leviticus 23, be fulfilled by His long 2nd advent? :Chinscratch:
So let's look at the three peaks of that advent - seeing as there are 3 holy days - apocalypse and His return, great Day of Judgment, and Tabernacles.
Trumpets and Tabernacles are easy to recognize in such a scenario. What are the three fall holy days?
Trumpets - great Day of Atonement - Tabernacles. I know they have their historical meaning to Israel. But I believe there is a prophetic meaning also. (Another) spiritual meaning.
Here's my other thought on this very important matter and verses.. Revelation is like an orchestra and a fast paced play.. and scenes.. with opening and closing curtains and not all things are strictly in order. I'm thinking slightly of the end of Revelation 20.. Just because a couple of verses seem to be rather scrunched up together.. well, we see that elsewhere in bible prophecy also..
The only verse I've ever read that could be supposed to mean 'after death no hope' is when Jesus told the pharisees, if they didn't repent, they would die in their sins.. But really, I have to think, all that means is they would rise still in their sins. Why do we assume the stretched out flying away with the intent of the verse interpretation is correct? Who says? (Dante Alleghari? sp?) ["The (supposed Fiery) Gehenna Jesus mentioned was an earthly place.]
So if the Fall holy days - bear with me, are a pattern.. if we dare think that.. in between Trumpets and Day Of Atonement, each Fall, is 10days. The time between Jesus' return and Judgment 'Day' is 1000years. Okay.. the time between Day Of Atonement and Tabernacles is 5 days, so perhaps that means (and I'm convinced it does) that between 'Day' Of Judgment and Tabernacles is 500years?
So what occurs durng that time.. I have to think Judgment 'Day'.. a day of great review! Of all history.. a sad sad story.. which surely? fuLLy proves good from evil (life from death). Engraving it on every heart and mind?
I found myself thinking.. imagining myself as being part of that 2nd resurrection (being in the number of those who died before being reconciled to God through faith and Jesus). I have just woken up from my grave.. and as things move along.. everyone under the earth and who perished in the seas.. drawn up from death and awaken.. and I witness a great day of judgment and discernment? and review? of the sad, sad story(s) of history :faint:
Then at the end of the chapter, is when it says (basically) "those not believing" (names not written in the book of life) "will go to the lake" (or pond, the greek) "of fire and death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire, which is the 2nd death".
I had to think, after all that.. who's not going to "believe"? :dontknow: That's my theory and I'm kind of convinced of it.. Sorry for rambling on so. I am just a bit passionate about this whole topic. [God is So Good! And Wise!] Maybe they'll be a few really hard core hold outs, like Pol Pot or Charley Manson.. but who am I to wonder on that aspect.. Most (I think) Christian Universalists view the Lake of Fire as a purifying experience. I kind of think it's just like we experience now.. those cleansing fires, especially of His Presence.. At conversion especially, that convincing of our poor state.. And then too the purifying fires of His Presence teaching, guiding, leading, etc..
I'll add my link of an image that explains about the Holy Days (theory/?can't think of the word I want. Oy.)
- https://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com/
And here's those verses in the New King James Translation - which I think is like the parable "the kingdom of heaven is like 3 measures of meal" - three harvests..
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: [1]Christ the firstfruits, afterward [2]those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then [3]comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet."[a] But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Gotta run..! God bless! :hiya:
James it all depends on what you think 'all' means.
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
Are both alls the same percentage?
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 100% die, so also in Christ 100% will be made alive.
or
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 75% die, so also in Christ 6% will be made alive.
Mainstream Christianity seems to hold this opinion:
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 100% die, so also in Christ 5% will be made alive.
For me the the verse/context is about the massive success Christ will accomplish.
Christ is praised to be the complete opposite of Adam. The fixer of what Adam wrecked.
The question is: If the perfect Messiah also a perfect fixer?
Quote from: JamesH on December 13, 2017, 02:43:28 AM
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 are some of the passages uni's say are universal in its context as God being All in All. My question where do the unbelievers fit into these passages if these passages refer not only to the resurrection of man but the universal reconciliation of all men as well? I see at least 2 passages that mention the order of those who will be resurrected:
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
1 Cor 15:23-But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ's, at his coming.
1 Cor 15:24- Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
The bolded above are the ones mentioned that will be resurrected in 1 Cor 15:23. There is no mention of unbelievers in that verse and in verse 24 it says the end comes. Now some commentators say that "then the end comes" is referring to the unbelievers being resurrected but I don't see how unless I'm missing something? Does "then the end comes" refer to the resurrected unbelievers and if not where do unbelievers fit into this context?
This is a great question James ! ,
1Corinthians 15 Clearly is speaking of resurrection of the Life in Christ where death holds no power over the Living . [God is all in all already !!]
I read and enjoyed your post Marie !
And Whitewings also .
Blessed is He whom is found in the first Resurrection because the
second death holds no harm in one place [Rev 9]18 A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which proceeded out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents and have heads,
and with them they do harm. or power over them in another place ... rev20 5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,...e Final Judgment
...13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. 14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire....
But my own thoughts are gathered into believing by the other scriptures [Word of Life ] that everyone born of woman and locked up under the law , this is every [sum and total and all beings natural birthed , spiritual birthed and otherwise ]
are held by death , to be carnally minded is
DEATH Jesus come or basically was Sent by the Father to show us this truth by sending Him in a body prepared for Him in the fullness of time..
By understanding what fullness of time was, is very helpful though the mind of Christ , not with the carnal mind before repentance , and the Father changing it for me by the Holy Sprint teaching us , the carnal mind is the darkness and ignorance of the ways of the LIVING God , A total sitting in the outer darkness with no DAY or Light to shine , this DAY OF THE LORD is the 1000 year reign [ A day is 1000 years and the 1000 years is a DAY 2 Peter 3:8New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice,beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. [Adam at 930 was just 70 years shy of being a Day old in the Sight of GOD !] and He died , odd how we are now given 70 years [like an hour , the last hour perhaps to come in , gathered into Christ Body .. Yes I do consider this very important since JESUS CHRIST holds everything together that exist Colo 1 ...16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence....
He alone is the LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD ..... IT IS BY GODS SPIRIT AND WORD does everything work out in the end ... no what mankind does for God but what GOD has done for mankind
this changing our minds and hearts to trust Him totally till the end
So death and darkness are similies to me, a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave as a lion, crazy like a fox ).
the use of simile.
The LIGHT had come into the world ,,, ALL will see the Light .......
I thought of the idlers in the market place parable , and Jesus letting them come in on the last hour Matt20 , after all the other workers bore the heat of the DAY [One Day IS CHRIST REIGN ] .... JESUS does do what He wants with His own things ... and no one can stop Gods power from making all things new and perfect in the end
We just have to trust in Him 100 % :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
PS , THE UNIVERSAList message is as close to the truth as I have ever found TRUTH to be held captive to CHRIST meaning the anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT witness ....
Adam was held in death but in Christ ALIVE ..
930 years to 70 years captive of Babylon = JESUS CHRIST 1000 Years reign
You are Christ and Christ is Gods
Worldly Wisdom
...22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
2 Corinthians 10:7
You are looking at outward appearances. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should remind himself that we belong to Christ just as much as he does.
Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
The promised seed / Word of God is Christ anointed by the Holy Spirit and fire witness , all shall be made alive because of Him and Him Alone ... none will glory that DAY but in the LORD HIMSELF ...
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 13, 2017, 09:24:19 AM
James it all depends on what you think 'all' means.
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
Are both alls the same percentage?
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 100% die, so also in Christ 100% will be made alive.
or
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 75% die, so also in Christ 6% will be made alive.
Mainstream Christianity seems to hold this opinion:
1 Cor 15:22-For as in Adam 100% die, so also in Christ 5% will be made alive.
For me the the verse/context is about the massive success Christ will accomplish.
Christ is praised to be the complete opposite of Adam. The fixer of what Adam wrecked.
The question is: If the perfect Messiah also a perfect fixer?
Amen! How could Adam accomplish so much more than Jesus,
the firstborn and
"forever pre-eminent" savior of the world? (Which "forever" would be always pre-eminent, which these verses agree.. as He having all things subjected to Him by the Father.)