I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should. I want to improve my ways and become a better person. I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though. "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".
If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die? I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins. But I still have questions.
You have to read the rest of the chapter in context.
Jesus was speaking to pretenders and hypocrites and using that as an example.
Hi! We all die the death... but Jesus rescued us. Traded with us, our consequence/result/wages of sin/imperfection for his eternal life/perfection, which we will "put on" at the (1st) resurrection which is at the Last trump(et) - 1 corinthians 15:51-54 & 1 thessalonians 4:15.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 30, 2010, 04:19:06 AM
You have to read the rest of the chapter in context.
Jesus was speaking to pretenders and hypocrites and using that as an example.
Amen! Context is all important! :)
Thank you for your help. I also wonder, what about the part where Jesus said: "Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil." What did He mean when He said this?
I know that we're under a New Covenant now. Did He mean all of the laws? What about killing people when they speak against their parents?
By the way, I've been making the effort to try and honour my father more. It actually feels a lot better that way.
Jesus fulfilled because He is the one of who the prophets spoke.
The greatest of all the laws is love.
You should read the four Gospels tonight.
Your dad is a child of God just as you are, why would you treat him any other way?
Quote from: Full of Questions on November 30, 2010, 04:09:17 AM
I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should. I want to improve my ways and become a better person. I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though. "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".
If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die? I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins. But I still have questions.
all i can think of for such questions are some words we say Jesus said 'It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit , and [they] are life.'
if true, i see the words of Jesus you are curious about as meaning wisdom. so much in Proverbs aligns father and mother with wisdom. seems to me God is sending a decree into our lives by sending His word (Jesus) to say and thus cause us to honor wisdom thus causing us to live. all that is not good in us will die the death.
His word never returns void, it always accomplishes what it was sent to accomplish.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
if you truely want to improve your ways and become a better person, thank God for this and honor wisdom from all sources.
cp
oh, you should also respect and honor ma and pa in this physical realm too!
cp
Do you think it is right or wrong for Joyce Myers to tell the world that for years her father sexually abused her as a child? Even if it is true, , it is evil speaking. Or is it that Scripture just means she has by doing so forfeited the right to be among those who do not go through death, of whom it is said, "We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose (alt: sleep), yet we all shall be changed,?" (1 Cor 1551)
if you're asking me, i don't even know who joyce myers is much less can i say what is right or wrong for her to be doing.
i do know that there are fathers and mothers and then there are fathers and mothers and not everyone who donates sperm or who is a receptical of sperm is a father or mother.
cp
Probably something to do with the silly laws of that time. They were quite evil back then, and if you said bad things to your father you could get killed under the law.
Lawyers ruled the day back then and they used the law to condemn people all the time. They tried to condemn Jesus at every turn, because they were sly serpents and full of evil. That's why Jesus sometimes talks nonsense to avoid being caught by these evil haters, so they would see him as a harmless kook and not someone to fear.
:cloud9: Honor thy father and mother was the first commandment with promise, ie. that thy days would be long upon the earth. It's a natural representation of our heavenly Father and mother, who we are to give honor to, and in so doing, the natural will follow suit. My :2c: Blessings...
I have witnessed this problem many times, it may not be what the verse is talking about, but I have at least personally related to what I have observed to it.
I have heard many people talk badly about their parents, hating them for what they did, and to our senses it is justified. However, in every case (of what I have observed personally) when that parent dies, the child who hated that parent is filled with guilt and a sort of death over comes them.
In each case I have observed it did not matter how bad the parent actually was, the child who lived a life of hatred and contempt towards that parent was deeply affected negatively. I believe this is because once the parent dies the child realizes that no reconciliation on earth is possible, not only will the parent not be able to be sorry for what they did in this life, if the child realizes things they did wrong it is also impossible to reach reconciliation.
That is very damaging emotionally. I came to this belief in time and have forgiven my parents and have made the effort to treat them with respect whether or not anyone might think they don't deserve it.
At the very least when my parents pass away, that deep regret will not poison me.
:cloud9: EXACTLY. I've observed the same thing. :thumbsup:
It is a very practical matter to me. I wonder if significant abuse by a parent or even someone known by the family, things pertaining to our childhood, should be written in an autobiography as part of the real story with the intent of helping many who are also dealing witht the same sort of things in their own life? This commandment has prevented me so far; but, I also think I'm missing an opportunity to do much good.
Quote from: Full of Questions on November 30, 2010, 04:09:17 AM
I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should. I want to improve my ways and become a better person. I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though. "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".
If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die? I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins. But I still have questions.
You are already on the right track. Jesus walked (perfectly) under the Law for us when He walked in the flesh. You pointed to the Scripture that says Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill". And fulfill He did! So now we are no longer under the Mosiac Law, we are under grace.
We should honor our parents but to do so is not law. Parents many times are not worthy of that honor, but if we walk with Jesus, and as imitators of Him, it will be our nature to honor them.
:cloud9: I, too, would have every reason to discuss childhood trauma by parent's, but what I found is, if prompted by the Lord to discuss it one on one in a ministry type situation, then I can "reguritate" it, but to do so apart from that is a spirit of necromancy, because what they did is under the blood now and as such, the people that did those things, are "dead" (spiritually speaking, though they are literally dead now too), but alive in Christ.
I thank Him for healing me and healing them (both before and after physical death). The fact that I know that a spirit(s) used them to do harm, also made it easier to forgive, and if anything this is what I tend to bring out to anyone, ie. that a spirit did whatever it was. Truly we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but multitudes of believers, do not experientially know this. Sometimes, just gaining that knowledge alone is enough for them to be able to get past it all by focusing on the true enemy. My :2c: Blessings...
i hear ya card. what helps me with such people (including myself, maybe especially myself) is what i am seeing as to 'what' God is. i am seeing that all of us are products of innumerable (trillions and more) bits of input and data. God is all of this. God is creator of and in charge of every facet, every situation that creates a new essence in our beings.
now a 'bad' parent is a product of all this. no one decision or act makes someone a bad parent. we seem to get the privilage or curse of making decisions that either accelerate or slow down the process that has been started generations ago but we certainly don't seem to be 100% or even 10% responsible for what we are. how could we? we don't ask to be born with the baggage we are born with and that has been started centuries ago.
just some thoughts.
cp
Quote from: claypot on December 05, 2010, 03:29:19 PM
now a 'bad' parent is a product of all this. no one decision or act makes someone a bad parent. we seem to get the privilage or curse of making decisions that either accelerate or slow down the process that has been started generations ago but we certainly don't seem to be 100% or even 10% responsible for what we are. how could we? we don't ask to be born with the baggage we are born with and that has been started centuries ago.
cp
No wonder God (Rom. 11:32) concluded... {shut them all up together}...them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. We are a work in progress.
CHB
:cloud9: That's very true CP.....from my point of view, what you just said is from the generational curses, which are "transmitted" from generation to generation as spirits, ie. FAMILIAR spirits.
So we don't just overcome the things WE gave "life" to with our choices, but we overcome what our bloodline gave "life" to, and in that way BOTH are set free and the bloodline is experientially cleansed, not "positionally" (doctrinally) cleansed. He did it, we have to appropriate it.
Which is what the now-spiritual priesthood does by "setting their feet in the Jordan" (dying to self, make of yourselves a LIVING sacrifice) for the others, so that the waters are rolled back all the way to Adam. My :2c: Blessings....
Great post, Card.
Thank you so much for your help, guys.
Quote from: Cardinal on December 05, 2010, 07:35:51 PM
:cloud9: That's very true CP.....from my point of view, what you just said is from the generational curses,
i hear ya card but i'm thinking that it is so much more than generational curses. i'm thinking of all the uncountable bits of info even from the time we are conceived. just think about it. trillions upon trillions of factors make us who we are from conception onward and then to add to these, all the factors from the generations before us. it really blows my mind. and to think we really only have influence over maybe a tiny percentage of all these factors. makes [mod edit] seem very non existant in the big picture.
cp
:cloud9: I know what you mean......I totally agree :thumbsup:
thanks card. i had to think real hard about that mod edit but it came through loud and clear. almost fell into a deep pit there. thanks again for watching my back.
cp
lol @ [mod edit] .
...and praise God cp, you get the big picture; it's a gift!
May we all keep pursuing the deep things of God.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 06, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
lol @ [mod edit] .
...and praise God cp, you get the big picture; it's a gift!
May we all keep pursuing the deep things of God.
What's funny about the mod edit, the sentence as a whole?
Quote from: claypot on December 06, 2010, 01:35:11 AM
thanks card. i had to think real hard about that mod edit but it came through loud and clear. almost fell into a deep pit there. thanks again for watching my back.
cp
It's good cp :bigGrin:. Not saying I personally disagree with you, but yeah, you know what happens :sigh:.
Blessings.
Yes, the sentence as a whole.
Instead of tiptoeing around the subject or sugarcoating the word he just inserted: [mod edit] !
I think it's funny; and clever!
Don't you?
haha
actually, since I did the mod edit, the joke kind'a ended up being on me.
When I went back and looked at it, the sentence actually appears to be saying that the mod edit is inconsequential in the whole scheme of things LOL....oops. Oh well, that's OK. :)
Oh! You did it!
I thought claypot wrote it that way! lol
you're right, if he had've written it, it would have been hilarious.
i totally forgot how sensitive some issues are so again, thanks, jab.
cp
Quote from: claypot on December 06, 2010, 06:08:57 AM
i totally forgot how sensitive some issues are so again, thanks, jab.
cp
You know cp, I don't think it is the issue that is sensitive, it's the people who are discussing the issue that is sensitive.
CHB
i do hear ya chb. we people are a very sensitive lot. i'm also thinkin that the 'issue' we are talking about, once enflamed, takes up too many megabytes or forum space. don't want to be the one to cause a tentmaker forum meltdown!
cp
:cloud9: Ok, NOW I "get it" CP......I didn't understand your last comment to me......I was just agreeing with your Jab mod edited comment as being the way I see [mod edit], too, LOL..... :laughing7: