Living in the Lightning Realm

[Molly]

1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

--Mat 17


[he was] "transfigured" [before them]

G3339
μεταμορφόω
metamorphoō
met-am-or-fo'-o
From G3326 and G3445; to transform (literally or figuratively "metamorphose"): - change, transfigure, transform.



[his face did] "shine" [as the sun]

G2989
λάμπω
lampō
lam'-po
A primary verb; to beam, that is, radiate brilliancy (literally or figuratively): - give light, shine.



[white as the] "light"

G5457
φῶς
phōs
foce
From an obsoleteφάω phaō (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays; compare G5316 and G5346); luminousness (in the widest application, natural or artificial, abstract or concrete, literal or figurative): - fire, light.



18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

--2 Cor 3



[but we all..]"are changed" [into the same image]

G3339
μεταμορφόω
metamorphoō
met-am-or-fo'-o
From G3326 and G3445; to transform (literally or figuratively "metamorphose"): - change, transfigure, transform.

[claypot]

Nathan, you wrote...

There was lightning and thundering at the physical mountain where Moses received the law . .it was so intimidating that men literally were afraid to talk to God.  There was such a clashing between spirit and flesh that flesh could not go near it at all without dying.

That got me thinking how it was not such a bad thing to die when approaching the mountain. We look at this as kind of a threatening curse when really it is a victorious proclamation.....approach God and watch all that is not of God's world, God's real home world to me is the real 'literal' world, die.

I wrote in the Spiritual/Natural thread the following but I think it fits here better......

Something has happened within me lately. I really feel as if we have come from the God, the Spiritual. I mean I really feel it. I think to myself that this is not my home (the physical), I'm a just a passing through. I 'see' myself kind of being in that realm and looking at my life here in this physical. What this does for me is it helps me to communicate to my neighbor. To say "Hey, we're close to going home, so close. Let's wipe the dust off of ourselves and start pulling up the tent stakes. This was a nice visit, not always, but it's time to call it a day and vamoose."

I can't really explain it but the spiritual seems more real to me. Like you said, Scripture is not a volume of words to argue over or even to swoon over, they are words from our real home, the spiritual, waking us up. We were there, we are there, we are going there.

I can't seem to nail what I really want to say.

Again, great stuff Nathan and I envy you in that you have 'church' to put forth these things. I too have a 'church' of sorts as we all do. Our friends, acquaintences, neighbors and such are our church but you know what I mean.

cp

[Nathan]

I do and I don't bro.  I have a body of people that are receptive to the things I see from time to time.  It's literally taken us years to get to this point.  I've had many leave because of it . .I've had some treat it as an amusement more than a revelational experience . . .and all the while, I know and feel the cloud of the denomination over me and imagining the looks of apallment on their faces once they are aware that I am a heretic.

I would "love" to get out from under that and be able to do what I'm already doing, without the feeling that at any given moment, things could go south in an instant.  But like I'd mentioned before, I'm not released to go do my own thing so until then, I will continue being a denominational heretic and continue revelating and illuminating what I see and growing "with" the congregation as we all strive for the intimacy of relationship with God through the Son.

And I like your explanation of how things are kind of the opposite in you as to what you "used" to think and what you think now.  For me, now, when I read passages that speak of his ways not being my ways and his thoughts not being my thoughts . . .I read them now as saying . .his ways are opposite of my ways . .and his thoughts are the opposite of my thoughts.

Which makes the ark of Noah (rest) even more profound as the ark came to "rest" (that's a quote) on mount Ararat . . .which is the curse is reversed.  Which is now telling me that through Christ . . . my whole way of thinking "and" WHAT I think is all turned around . . .. the church wants me to change what's on the outside . . .how I talk, dress, act, tithe, pray, attend church . . . but Christ doesn't work from the outside in, he works from the inside out.  Once he reverses me from within, then all of those other things without will automatically fall into order.

I like what you posted here .  .we are not of this world . .. this realm is not our permanent place of living.  We are spirits that have a soul (personality) that live in this shell of a decaying body.  This body has been modified to live on this physical earth in this natural realm . . .but that's not my body's true form.  My true form is a spirit being.  Until my soul becomes married to my spirit . . .I will continue going through life as a single woman (spiritually speaking of course).  My mind is the womb that births spiritual offspring . .but without the Spirit seed, there is no birthing.

If you don't mind, I'm going to push the envelop a bit with this and say that when I choose to become intimate with fleshly and natural thinking and things, it may gratify me, but there is no life being conceived by it . . .much like when two women choose to be intimate with each other . . .they may gratify themselves, but neither of them will ever walk away impregnated with life in their womb.  That only happens when we enter into the original order as God intended . . .when I marry my spirit . . .when my mind "submits" to my spirit, then spirit life can be planted in the womb of my mind, of my nature, my personality . . .and new life births from that because that's what it was created to do .  . . to birth out that which was planted within.

[Molly]

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

--Heb 11

[claypot]

I do and I don't bro.  I have a body of people that are receptive to the things I see from time to time.  It's literally taken us years to get to this point.  I've had many leave because of it . .I've had some treat it as an amusement more than a revelational experience . . .and all the while, I know and feel the cloud of the denomination over me and imagining the looks of apallment on their faces once they are aware that I am a heretic.

I would "love" to get out from under that and be able to do what I'm already doing, without the feeling that at any given moment, things could go south in an instant.  But like I'd mentioned before, I'm not released to go do my own thing so until then, I will continue being a denominational heretic and continue revelating and illuminating what I see and growing "with" the congregation as we all strive for the intimacy of relationship with God through the Son.

And I like your explanation of how things are kind of the opposite in you as to what you "used" to think and what you think now.  For me, now, when I read passages that speak of his ways not being my ways and his thoughts not being my thoughts . . .I read them now as saying . .his ways are opposite of my ways . .and his thoughts are the opposite of my thoughts.

Which makes the ark of Noah (rest) even more profound as the ark came to "rest" (that's a quote) on mount Ararat . . .which is the curse is reversed.  Which is now telling me that through Christ . . . my whole way of thinking "and" WHAT I think is all turned around . . .. the church wants me to change what's on the outside . . .how I talk, dress, act, tithe, pray, attend church . . . but Christ doesn't work from the outside in, he works from the inside out.  Once he reverses me from within, then all of those other things without will automatically fall into order.

I like what you posted here .  .we are not of this world . .. this realm is not our permanent place of living.  We are spirits that have a soul (personality) that live in this shell of a decaying body.  This body has been modified to live on this physical earth in this natural realm . . .but that's not my body's true form.  My true form is a spirit being.  Until my soul becomes married to my spirit . . .I will continue going through life as a single woman (spiritually speaking of course).  My mind is the womb that births spiritual offspring . .but without the Spirit seed, there is no birthing.

If you don't mind, I'm going to push the envelop a bit with this and say that when I choose to become intimate with fleshly and natural thinking and things, it may gratify me, but there is no life being conceived by it . . .much like when two women choose to be intimate with each other . . .they may gratify themselves, but neither of them will ever walk away impregnated with life in their womb.  That only happens when we enter into the original order as God intended . . .when I marry my spirit . . .when my mind "submits" to my spirit, then spirit life can be planted in the womb of my mind, of my nature, my personality . . .and new life births from that because that's what it was created to do .  . . to birth out that which was planted within.

Man, Nathan, that is some good stuff. I know I keep saying that but you and your words resonate with me in a very good way. Where abouts is this church of yours? I hate to think you are right next door and I don't know it. I'm a WI man. You close? I'm going to be re-reading this stuff and Molly's stuff.

My only thought for now is that I too see us as primarily spirit beings because we come from a Spirit but we are physical creatures because of our physical make up and we are soulish beings because of our working minds. So what I am saying is that I don't discount too lightly that we are very physical and soulish but I really agree with how you talk of being a single woman seeking a husband. Man, that talk is good, keep it up Brother.

cp

[Molly]

1There was a man named Nicodemus who was a Pharisee and a Jewish leader. 2One night he went to Jesus and said, "Sir, we know that God has sent you to teach us. You could not work these miracles, unless God were with you."

    3Jesus replied, "I tell you for certain that you must be born from above before you can see God's kingdom!"

    4Nicodemus asked, "How can a grown man ever be born a second time?"

    5Jesus answered:

   I tell you for certain that before you can get into God's kingdom, you must be born not only by water, but by the Spirit. 6Humans give life to their children. Yet only God's Spirit can change you into a child of God. 7Don't be surprised when I say that you must be born from above. 8Only God's Spirit gives new life. The Spirit is like the wind that blows wherever it wants to. You can hear the wind, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going.

    9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

    10Jesus replied:

   How can you be a teacher of Israel and not know these things? 11I tell you for certain that we know what we are talking about because we have seen it ourselves. But none of you will accept what we say. 12If you don't believe when I talk to you about things on earth, how can you possibly believe if I talk to you about things in heaven?

--John 3

[Molly]

9And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

12And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

--Mark 1

[Nathan]

I do and I don't bro.  I have a body of people that are receptive to the things I see from time to time.  It's literally taken us years to get to this point.  I've had many leave because of it . .I've had some treat it as an amusement more than a revelational experience . . .and all the while, I know and feel the cloud of the denomination over me and imagining the looks of apallment on their faces once they are aware that I am a heretic.

I would "love" to get out from under that and be able to do what I'm already doing, without the feeling that at any given moment, things could go south in an instant.  But like I'd mentioned before, I'm not released to go do my own thing so until then, I will continue being a denominational heretic and continue revelating and illuminating what I see and growing "with" the congregation as we all strive for the intimacy of relationship with God through the Son.

And I like your explanation of how things are kind of the opposite in you as to what you "used" to think and what you think now.  For me, now, when I read passages that speak of his ways not being my ways and his thoughts not being my thoughts . . .I read them now as saying . .his ways are opposite of my ways . .and his thoughts are the opposite of my thoughts.

Which makes the ark of Noah (rest) even more profound as the ark came to "rest" (that's a quote) on mount Ararat . . .which is the curse is reversed.  Which is now telling me that through Christ . . . my whole way of thinking "and" WHAT I think is all turned around . . .. the church wants me to change what's on the outside . . .how I talk, dress, act, tithe, pray, attend church . . . but Christ doesn't work from the outside in, he works from the inside out.  Once he reverses me from within, then all of those other things without will automatically fall into order.

I like what you posted here .  .we are not of this world . .. this realm is not our permanent place of living.  We are spirits that have a soul (personality) that live in this shell of a decaying body.  This body has been modified to live on this physical earth in this natural realm . . .but that's not my body's true form.  My true form is a spirit being.  Until my soul becomes married to my spirit . . .I will continue going through life as a single woman (spiritually speaking of course).  My mind is the womb that births spiritual offspring . .but without the Spirit seed, there is no birthing.

If you don't mind, I'm going to push the envelop a bit with this and say that when I choose to become intimate with fleshly and natural thinking and things, it may gratify me, but there is no life being conceived by it . . .much like when two women choose to be intimate with each other . . .they may gratify themselves, but neither of them will ever walk away impregnated with life in their womb.  That only happens when we enter into the original order as God intended . . .when I marry my spirit . . .when my mind "submits" to my spirit, then spirit life can be planted in the womb of my mind, of my nature, my personality . . .and new life births from that because that's what it was created to do .  . . to birth out that which was planted within.

Man, Nathan, that is some good stuff. I know I keep saying that but you and your words resonate with me in a very good way. Where abouts is this church of yours? I hate to think you are right next door and I don't know it. I'm a WI man. You close? I'm going to be re-reading this stuff and Molly's stuff.

My only thought for now is that I too see us as primarily spirit beings because we come from a Spirit but we are physical creatures because of our physical make up and we are soulish beings because of our working minds. So what I am saying is that I don't discount too lightly that we are very physical and soulish but I really agree with how you talk of being a single woman seeking a husband. Man, that talk is good, keep it up Brother.

cp

I'm in Iowa . . .just south of you . . .I work here in Cedar Rapids . . .I live in Anamosa . . .I do have a circle of like-minded people in Wisconsin . .they are somewhat scattered around up there and I've only met a half dozen or so of them in person in a trip to Tennessee a couple years back . .we converse by email loop.

I try to mosey up to Wisconsin at least once a year as we have 4 year old twin boys and our favorite getaway is at the Wilderness Resort waterpark in the Dels.  And I must confess . . the soul marrying spirit thing came originally from a post on Heart to Heart . . .don't remember who actually said it, but like you . . . it really resonated in me as well . .and now it's become a part of me also . . .truth is so cool when it actually does birth into our understanding.  It only increases the fear of the Lord in me . . . I love it!!!

[claypot]

Good stuff in my opinion, Molly. I'm reading and re-reading your stuff.

cp

[Molly]

the soul marrying spirit thing came originally from a post on Heart to Heart . . .don't remember who actually said it, but like you . . . it really resonated in me as well . .and now it's become a part of me also . . .truth is so cool when it actually does birth into our understanding.

Is it that the soul marries His Spirit?  Isn't the soul Eve--the bride?

Adam was created out of clay outside of the garden--the natural first--but then he received the breath of God and was placed in the garden of God.  If we inherit a sin nature from Adam, couldn't we also inherit a memory of the Spirit nature of Adam as well?  walking and talking with God in the cool of the garden?

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

--Gen 3


"in the cool" [of the day]

H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).


But they are no longer reconciled to him, so they hide.

Jesus told the woman at the well that although she had been with many men, she had no husband.

Doesn't the soul long for her husband?

But, we see that it is only the virgin who gives birth, thus, Jesus work on the cross was the cleansing of sin done by the High Priest in the holy place.

3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

--Rev 14


These 144,000 are virgins who were not defiled with women.  Since 'virgin' is a young girl, it is saying they are girls who have not been defiled with women--or a pure soul.

"virgins"

G3933
παρθένος
parthenos
par-then'-os
Of unknown origin; a maiden; by implication an unmarried daughter: - virgin.


Isn't this virgin soul the bride of Christ?  The New Jerusalem? Cleansed by his holy blood in the most Holy place?  Chosen and prepared by the Father?


2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

--Rev 21

[Nathan]

Yes to all the above.

That's one liberating thing about coming into the kingdom Molly..  . there are as many dimensions as there are relationships.  As I've shared other times, I personally am cutting my teeth on three . . .the natural, the moral and the spiritual.  If that order was a transparency, I would then lay physical men, corporate man, and inner man.  There are various ways to look at these things and they can all be beneficial.

So yes, in one way Adam can represent Christ and Eve represent the church . . .that for me is the 2nd dimension . . .the corporate bride being married to Christ, the eternal groom.  And yet Eve can also be my soul, my personality . . .and Adam can be my spirit.  2 Corinthians says that my spirit is to "take captive" my thoughts . .. which is my Adam subduing my Eve.  And it's also Christ who is the head, and the church is the body.  Christ rules the church . . . but it's not the kind of rule that our reasoning imagines (image-in)  But his ruling is the same as God's judgment . . .it's an action of love, not vengence or wrath.

Let it reverse in you . . .turn your head inside out and see what births from that.

[Molly]

 

2 Corinthians says that my spirit is to "take captive" my thoughts . .. which is my Adam subduing my Eve.

Your spirit or Christ's Spirit?  That was my question.  I don't think whatever spirit we may or may not have on our own counts for much other than breathing in and out.

[Nathan]

It is not "I" but Christ "in" me . . .Paul's words.  I'm not so sure it's as simple as just breathing in and out . . .Romans speaks about there being a "spirit to spirit" communication with God and man . . . there is something within that creates the adrenalin of the "ah ha" moments within us.  There is a recognition of spiritual things that can only be identified by spiritual beings.  So yes, Christ is in me as his spirit resides in me . .but I also see that there is another spirit nature that was breathed into this form of a body at the conception within my mother's womb. 

I wonder if it isn't in extensions.  This flesh suit is stretched around a frame to house a spirit within it . . .and that spirit has it's own personality . .which makes me, me . . .yet a mystery happens at the invitation of the Holy Spirit to come in to where now, my spirit is stretched around an invisible frame . .within which the Holy Spirit resides in that.  Kind of like a telescope . . .one extension folds into another.

The Son, folded into the Spirit, folded into the Father . . .when they extend, God manifests.

I don't know . .it's tough to put spiritual things into natural words.

[Molly]

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' " 8Then they remembered his words.

Luke 24



[two men in... ]"shining" [garments ][KJV]

G797
ἀστράπτω
astraptō
as-trap'-to
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.



For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

--Luke 17

[as the] "lightning"

G796
ἀστραπή
astrapē
as-trap-ay'
From G797; lightning; by analogy glare: - lightning, bright shining.



[that] "lighteneth"

G797
ἀστράπτω
astraptō
as-trap'-to
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.

[Molly]

5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:

6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.

8Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

--Daniel 10



[and his face as the appearance of] "lightning"

H1300
בּרק
bârâq
baw-rawk'
From H1299; lightning; by analogy a gleam; concretely a flashing sword: - bright, glitter (-ing, sword), lightning.

[claypot]

I sent the following to my little congregation. How do you think they will take it? They are mostly friends who pray for God to heal sore throats and who believe God will damn most people to hell forever. I sent them this................

Why do you focus so much on the physical? Do you spend your physical life praying for and caring for vapors and things that are here today and gone tomorrow or do you see that it is the spiritual that is your real home and environment?

You're nothing but a wisp of fog, catching a brief bit of sun before disappearing. Or put another way..... What is your life? For you are a vapor, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away.  james 4.14

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower thereof falls away: 1peter1.23

Or put another way.......Your new life is not like your old life. Your old birth came from mortal sperm; your new birth comes from God's living Word. Just think: a life conceived by God himself! That's why the prophet said,

   The old life is a grass life,
      its beauty as short-lived as wildflowers;
   Grass dries up, flowers droop,
      God's Word goes on and on forever.
This is the Word that conceived the new life in you.

Why do people spend so much time praying for physical things that only pertain to vapors and grass. Why do we spend our time caring for shadows and not reality? Reality is God's home world, the spiritual. That is our home world too for we came from God. We ignore the spiritual only to our own peril.

Let's love the Jacob and hate the Esau as God does! Romans 9.13

We pray for people to be physically healed and some are and some are not but spiritual children will all be healed and we will see this salvation when we have eyes of faith for only eyes of faith can see the spirit world. Again, to focus on this physical world and our physical bodies is to focus on shadows and vapors. God's home is spirit. Jesus' words were meant to guide us in the spiritual world. The physical world is a shadow of reality.

Jesus didn't pray for the vapors for the vapors sake.jn17.9 When we pray for someone to get healed and they do we should be looking at this as a message from God about the total spiritual healing that takes place in Jesus Christ. How many times does God have to give us this message before we catch on?

Jesus said that the Spirit can make life. Sheer muscle and willpower don't make anything happen. Every word He spoke to us is a Spirit-word, and so it is life-making. But some people are resisting, refusing to have any part in this.jn6.63

People pray for healing for themselves and others and some get physically healed and some do not. It is not because of lack of faith that some do not, it is lack of understanding of what God is saying via our physical vaporous bodies.

We are spiritual beings, born out of the heart and mind of God. Let's act and live like it. Let's quit using prayer to get a parking spot or win the lottery. If we think God is so cruel as to let people suffer if we don't pray the right way then we are missing the message. God could heal everyone physically with a twitch of His eyebrow but He doesn't because the physical is a vehicle of communication from God to us. It is like grass, once it serves its purpose it withers and is gone.

Sure, talk to God about ailing loved ones but talk to God, don't ask for or demand things as if God doesn't care. God loves Jacob and hates Esau. God loves His spiritual world, His Jacob. God loves realities, not vapors. My prayer is for all of us to get the Message!

cp

[Nathan]

I sent the following to my little congregation. How do you think they will take it? They are mostly friends who pray for God to heal sore throats and who believe God will damn most people to hell forever. I sent them this................

Why do you focus so much on the physical? Do you spend your physical life praying for and caring for vapors and things that are here today and gone tomorrow or do you see that it is the spiritual that is your real home and environment?

You're nothing but a wisp of fog, catching a brief bit of sun before disappearing. Or put another way..... What is your life? For you are a vapor, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away.  james 4.14

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower thereof falls away: 1peter1.23

Or put another way.......Your new life is not like your old life. Your old birth came from mortal sperm; your new birth comes from God's living Word. Just think: a life conceived by God himself! That's why the prophet said,

   The old life is a grass life,
      its beauty as short-lived as wildflowers;
   Grass dries up, flowers droop,
      God's Word goes on and on forever.
This is the Word that conceived the new life in you.

Why do people spend so much time praying for physical things that only pertain to vapors and grass. Why do we spend our time caring for shadows and not reality? Reality is God's home world, the spiritual. That is our home world too for we came from God. We ignore the spiritual only to our own peril.

Let's love the Jacob and hate the Esau as God does! Romans 9.13

We pray for people to be physically healed and some are and some are not but spiritual children will all be healed and we will see this salvation when we have eyes of faith for only eyes of faith can see the spirit world. Again, to focus on this physical world and our physical bodies is to focus on shadows and vapors. God's home is spirit. Jesus' words were meant to guide us in the spiritual world. The physical world is a shadow of reality.

Jesus didn't pray for the vapors for the vapors sake.jn17.9 When we pray for someone to get healed and they do we should be looking at this as a message from God about the total spiritual healing that takes place in Jesus Christ. How many times does God have to give us this message before we catch on?

Jesus said that the Spirit can make life. Sheer muscle and willpower don't make anything happen. Every word He spoke to us is a Spirit-word, and so it is life-making. But some people are resisting, refusing to have any part in this.jn6.63

People pray for healing for themselves and others and some get physically healed and some do not. It is not because of lack of faith that some do not, it is lack of understanding of what God is saying via our physical vaporous bodies.

We are spiritual beings, born out of the heart and mind of God. Let's act and live like it. Let's quit using prayer to get a parking spot or win the lottery. If we think God is so cruel as to let people suffer if we don't pray the right way then we are missing the message. God could heal everyone physically with a twitch of His eyebrow but He doesn't because the physical is a vehicle of communication from God to us. It is like grass, once it serves its purpose it withers and is gone.

Sure, talk to God about ailing loved ones but talk to God, don't ask for or demand things as if God doesn't care. God loves Jacob and hates Esau. God loves His spiritual world, His Jacob. God loves realities, not vapors. My prayer is for all of us to get the Message!

cp

For me bro, when dealing with infants and toddlers, you almost have to make them hungry . .otherwise the attention span doesn't last long enough for the message to be received.  I can't tell you how many times I'm passionate about some revelation I'm trying to share and sometimes, the listener scrunches up their eyebrows and shake their head like their trying to get the cobwebs out . . .then throw up their hands and say something like . . ."that's just to deep for me . ." or " . ..that's just way over my head . ."

So I've learned to first present what they already know . .and then start asking questions that no longer fit what we already have been taught to know.  Once you enter into that arena where they can't get something to fit . .then you can "suggest" that "maybe" it "might" be seen in another light . . .kind of slowly edging them into the same exact message, but now, they're coming into it thinking rather than just blindly listening and they'll not only be more receptive to what you're saying . . .they'll also be able to absorb the principle and hopefully, that should start a chain of comments or questions from them leading into even more revelating areas.  I love watching lightbulbs go off in other people when sharing my heart with them.  But it takes time and patience.

One of the things I hit the hardest, especially when introducing dimensions for the first time through . . .I pound . . .hard . . .on the importance of "letting" the hard to understand things in.  Don't reject them or discard them . . .I don't want to talk to your mind, I have enough issues with my own mind . .talking to yours will only create an argument when dealing with spiritual seed.  I don't want to argue with your mind, I want to plant something in your spirit.  (Granted, you can't even say "this" much to just anyone either)  But the things being planted are spiritual things that are intended for spiritual reception.  If your mind can't grasp these things, that's absolutely fine.  Just don't reject them, put them on the back burner for a later time. 

By now, my church understands what that means.  But even then, it takes time to get even that much to sink in when you're just beginning to move into the spiritual arena of the kingdom.  Now, when new people come in, it's the church members patting them on the back and telling them this same thing.  And the reason why is, because it works.  Once I get my mind to shut up, then I can actually hear what the spirit is saying.  And even now, many things enter into me that I don't fully comprehend.  But I'm learning not to judge by what is being said, but by the sound that the message is coming from. 

Joy has a sound.  Peace has a sound.  There is a sound to life.  I don't need to comprehend the message as much as I need to discern the sound.  If there is the sound of life in the message and I still don't understand it . .then I know to just let it simmer . .there are TONS of things said on these forums and threads that I don't grasp, but there is a familiar sound that is sending the message out that I "do" recognize.  And when I do, I know that understanding will eventually come, but first, let the seed be planted in my mind, in my womb and the nature of the spirit will take it's course without interference from my limited mind, and understanding will birth, I just need to let it be until I'm mature enough to walk in it.

And just as much as peace, joy and life have a sound, so does bondage, condemnation, and law.  I believe that's what scripture is talking about when we're to judge what's being said.  It's not about proving the message to be right or wrong, it's about discerning the sound from where the message is coming from.

"My sheep will know me by the SOUND of my voice."  Christ is the sound of love, hope, peace, comfort, joy, freedom, life and light. . the list is long.

There are people who love their image of the Lord and when they witness, you feel their love, but the sound can override the feeling to help you discern that even though they mean well, they are still bound in law rather than life.  This is not so you can point out their faults to them, but that you can love on them with genuine freedom and let them be the ones to choose to accept or reject. 

Just some thoughts.

[Molly]

wait a second!  Hands off my parking space up front!

You must have no idea how cherished I feel when He goes in front of me, making my day smooth and peaceful.  I still have to live in this world, you know! :laughing7:

He gives me little 'gifts' all day long, and I never fail to thank him.  Just the last two days, He has turned several potential nightmares into easy sailing.

This must be a little known principle, because there is ALWAYS a parking space up front!




30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

--Mat 6

[Nathan]

Kingdom of God pursued first and formost . . .literal?  No, Spiritual.  Let the spiritual seed be planted and everything else will come into order.  But the key is to let that which you can not see, and not always understand, to still be planted in your mind through your spirit . . .mind must be in submission to spirit . . .Be Still . . .and "know". . .intimacy follows submission.

[Molly]

well, yes, I think the kingdom is literal.  It might come without observation.  It might be accessed spiritually.  But the results are literal, as we live in a literal world--on earth as it is in heaven.



15Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

--Acts 5

[Nathan]

By literal I mean that we don't wear literal crowns, we don't carry around scepters, we don't make literal decrees for natural people to adhere to.  What you are referring to would be spiritual . . .when I engage as a king in the spirit, it affects my natural realm.

The passages you quote are of people who have come aware of their authority in the spiritual that has great affect in the natural.  I believe this is where the church was supposed to have remained from the beginning . . .but doctrine became more important than relationship and the manifestations of this change in power show up in the multiplication of church buildings, but the lack of the affects that follow.  More doctrines to choose from, but fewer miracles and signs . . .something has gone amiss.  But rather than get alarmed, we should be encouraged . .for that which has been dorment, is now again being resurrected . .and we're the generation that it's occuring in.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Nathan, that is one good explanation, and listening for the sound is exactly what is needed. If I could add some other points along those lines......

Being creatures that want to stand on something "solid" by nature, thus having some control over the situation, as opposed to "walking on the water", it's hard sometimes to not be able to "hear" what to stand on, and to have to just have peace that whatever you are to receive will have gone into your spirit, bypassing your mind, and that the Lord of the harvest will bring it to your understanding as and when HE wills, and not the other way around.

Relinquishing control is just as hard as learning to float on water when you were a kid, ie. trusting that you were not going to drown, and learning from experience that the more you struggle with it and don't relax, the more difficult it is to do.

He has made me to listen for the sound, and lots of times I read something that does not instantly become revelation to me, but because of the sound I heard, I KNOW it's there, and I keep on pressing in until I DO hear it, no matter how long that takes. He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, and no one should expect to hear everything immediately, because it just doesn't happen that way.

Another thing I don't think people realize is, is sometimes when He gives you something, you are at a loss to explain it any other way than the way you yourself received it. It didn't come from you, and therefore you can't always "break it down" yet.

Another point along those lines is, the Lord spoke in parables that the multitudes might NOT understand, and using clarity of the message for all, as a means of judging and thereby rejecting the vessel giving the message, is in clear contradiction to the Lord of righteousness Himself, who did not speak that ALL might understand at that moment. Sadly, that is what many do, at the first sign of not being able to understand what is being shared. But Him being the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, means that He still may elect for reasons known only to Him, to somewhat veil what is being revealed from those He is not ready to reveal it to yet, and it has nothing to do with the vessel at all.

If for no other reason, because of the reason I listed above, which is, that it makes us press in more, that the "multitudes" that are in all of us that are only concerned with getting the fishes and the loaves (our natural immediate needs met, which includes our immediate natural understanding), change into that of being one of the disciples (one that follows Him wheresoever the Lamb goest, even if it discomforts our immediate needs).

The bottom line is, He is the Lord of the harvest, we are not. He is the master builder who knows what "layer" needs to be added to whom when, and we don't. We can only give out what has been given to us, and leave the rest to the wise master builder, and have peace that He will finish what He has started. Blessings.....

[Molly]

I believe this is where the church was supposed to have remained from the beginning . . .but doctrine became more important than relationship and the manifestations of this change in power show up in the multiplication of church buildings, but the lack of the affects that follow.  More doctrines to choose from, but fewer miracles and signs . . .something has gone amiss.

I believe so, too, but nothing has gone amiss.  It's all like it is supposed to be.


14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

--Rom 10




[except] "they be sent"

G649
ἀποστέλλω
apostellō
ap-os-tel'-lo
From G575 and G4724; set apart, that is, (by implication) to send out (properly on a mission) literally or figuratively: - put in, send (away, forth, out), set [at liberty].

[claypot]

I hear ya Molly, I hear ya. It is great to be woken up a bit more and it is very good to be used to help another wake up a bit more. To wake someone up from a physical sleep, it is best to do it gently, so too with spiritual sleep.

We're close , very close, I'm thinking. Like I said before, time to start pulling up the tent stakes and get the bags packed. We're close. Home is just over the next hill.

cp

[Nathan]

:cloud9: Amen Nathan, that is one good explanation, and listening for the sound is exactly what is needed. If I could add some other points along those lines......

Being creatures that want to stand on something "solid" by nature, thus having some control over the situation, as opposed to "walking on the water", it's hard sometimes to not be able to "hear" what to stand on, and to have to just have peace that whatever you are to receive will have gone into your spirit, bypassing your mind, and that the Lord of the harvest will bring it to your understanding as and when HE wills, and not the other way around.

Relinquishing control is just as hard as learning to float on water when you were a kid, ie. trusting that you were not going to drown, and learning from experience that the more you struggle with it and don't relax, the more difficult it is to do.

He has made me to listen for the sound, and lots of times I read something that does not instantly become revelation to me, but because of the sound I heard, I KNOW it's there, and I keep on pressing in until I DO hear it, no matter how long that takes. He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, and no one should expect to hear everything immediately, because it just doesn't happen that way.

Another thing I don't think people realize is, is sometimes when He gives you something, you are at a loss to explain it any other way than the way you yourself received it. It didn't come from you, and therefore you can't always "break it down" yet.

Another point along those lines is, the Lord spoke in parables that the multitudes might NOT understand, and using clarity of the message for all, as a means of judging and thereby rejecting the vessel giving the message, is in clear contradiction to the Lord of righteousness Himself, who did not speak that ALL might understand at that moment. Sadly, that is what many do, at the first sign of not being able to understand what is being shared. But Him being the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, means that He still may elect for reasons known only to Him, to somewhat veil what is being revealed from those He is not ready to reveal it to yet, and it has nothing to do with the vessel at all.

If for no other reason, because of the reason I listed above, which is, that it makes us press in more, that the "multitudes" that are in all of us that are only concerned with getting the fishes and the loaves (our natural immediate needs met, which includes our immediate natural understanding), change into that of being one of the disciples (one that follows Him wheresoever the Lamb goest, even if it discomforts our immediate needs).

The bottom line is, He is the Lord of the harvest, we are not. He is the master builder who knows what "layer" needs to be added to whom when, and we don't. We can only give out what has been given to us, and leave the rest to the wise master builder, and have peace that He will finish what He has started. Blessings.....

Wow . .it's as if I wrote this Card!!  The kindred spirit here lately with you guys has just been so profound.  Claypot, Molly . . .all of these things being said by you guys has such a sweet aroma . . .wonderful stuff!!!