Just what do you mean - Born Again?

[Mickiel]

The very miracle of being born again must certainly be untypical transformation. It is a spiritual metamorphosis  that God induces change from , in our case,  a temporary physio chemical element of existence , into another completely different newly spawned spirit being by a nuclear process. Not as much concentration on who we are , but what we now are. It is transformation in form of appearance , and those who would change this from a entirely morph from one being into another, to just a change in belief and character , really do this electrifying process a terrible disservice. This is why so many believers think they transformed themselves , which reduces it from instantaneous power , to stages of change on a human level. This is also a way of robbing God. You are reducing his talent , the more self is inverted , the more human talent can reduce God's talent. In the true New Birth , all abilities are acredited to God. Will a man rob God? Well yes, every change in the false new birth cannot be done without the human. Robbing God of love and respect, that he may have preeminence in all things.

[Mickiel]

The very miracle of being born again must certainly be untypical transformation. It is a spiritual metamorphosis  that God induces change from , in our case,  a temporary physio chemical element of existence , into another completely different newly spawned spirit being by a nuclear process. Not as much concentration on who we are , but what we now are. It is transformation in form of appearance , and those who would change this from a entirely morph from one being into another, to just a change in belief and character , really do this electrifying process a terrible disservice. This is why so many believers think they transformed themselves , which reduces it from instantaneous power , to stages of change on a human level. This is also a way of robbing God. You are reducing his talent , the more self is inverted , the more human talent can reduce God's talent. In the true New Birth , all abilities are acredited to God. Will a man rob God? Well yes, every change in the false new birth cannot be done without the human. Robbing God of love and respect, that he may have preeminence in all things.

Now not to confuse growing in character as a type of transformation , growing in spirit or grace can begin in the flesh. 2Corinth. 3:18," And we all, who with unvieled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever increasing glory, which "Comes from the Lord", who is the spirit. Here we can see the believer is constantly increasing in glory. Even still no flesh can glory in his presence , 1Corinth. 1:29.  and so even ever increasing glory in the flesh I would caution. However the believers mind can be transformed by a consciousness that is experiencing totally new thinking, which begins in the flesh. Romans 12:2.

In conversion we cannot give ourselves credit for anything. The Bible really frowns on self righteousness , and for good reason. In my view , self righteousness is the number one sin among believers. And the hardest to detect. It is easily the number one way that Satan can masquerade as God. You become ignorant of God's righteousness and Satan has you going about your own righteousness , and this sin is so dangerous that it can make you think that your saved through your own faith, and not by the grace of God. Satan has really penetrated deeply into churches here, where "Confession" is a must for salvation,  you can't even be saved unless you confess, you believe , you repent , you obey , you go to church and you must accept Christ, underneath this layer of all these things you must do, is Satan masquerading as God. Opening you up and softening you up for some serious deceptions.

[Mickiel]

 Just what is Satan doing to a believer who he is opening up and softening you up for some serious deceptions. Firstly he wants to operate on you without you knowing it. Make changes in you that you are convinced come from God. These are "Cognitive Distortions." Mental filtering. Thought origins. Emotional reasoning and how to change. Had I the time I would go into each stripe, let's just fast forward and say Satan has finished your training and you are fully striped. These are all prime examples of cognitive distortions , you are selfishly interpreting events in your life , as Satan is masterfully leading you to think that it is God leading you. In short, they are habitual habits and errors in thinking. Reinforced by a selfish view of scripture. Selfish ambition and vain conceit, Phil.2:3.

What Satan is after in the final analysis is to have your envy and selfish ambition. Once there you will find disorder and every evil practice that is blinding and seducing, always keeping you unawares. With believers at this stage, Satan is uninterested in easy to discover sins and plastic meaningless time invested in you.

[darryl]

I want to stress that these are my views. Could I be wrong , oh please, of course I could be wrong. I been wrong about things in scripture for years. I have read the same scripture and held to my interpretation, then 25 years later find out I was wrong. So I just wanted to make that clear, I am not a theologian. I am like anyone here, searching for the truth.

tky for ur honesty m humility

[darryl]

I agree with you Mickiel. Just to add my take on the event in the garden of Eden:

It is interesting that it was God who planted the tree which contained both good and evil, not just good. God intentionally put evil into that one tree. The knowledge of good is dependent upon the knowledge of evil. Hence the tree in the garden was not, as we usually think of it, merely the means of knowing evil, it was the means, primarily, of the knowledge of good. Before they sinned Adam and Eve had good but did not realize it because they had had no experience of evil.

It is readily acknowledged that we want what is good and not evil. We strive for the good but we oftentimes experience evil. Before they sinned, Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good. Good lay all about them, unmixed with evil. They had health, strength, honor, and companionship with one another. Yet they knew nothing of the blessedness of these blessings. This we learn from the name given to the tree which bore the forbidden fruit. To many minds it suggests only the knowledge of evil, rather than good.

p.s. I wonder if this thread should be split into a couple of different topics to better reflect the content of the posts. Of course one being "Born Again" (the original topic), another being the kingdom verses and another being the garden of Eden. Jabcat may have an opinion. Just my opinion.  :dontknow:

yes, God bounds us all to futility that he have mercy on all...its all his purpose...his choice to do it like this

[darryl]

i prefer 'born from above'.... :gimmefive:

Yes Darryl, that's actually the original Greek for "born again";  born from above.

Strong's indicates;  313/anagenn?ō ("born again, from above") is used  in the NT in (1 Pet 1:3,23)-  referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).

yes, Jabcat..that's why I prefer it..also 'born again' has some negative connotations for some people



So connecting to the OP;  I BELIEVE/UNDERSTAND it as, that elsewhere Paul explains what getting our new body means;  "to wit, the redemption of our bodies". 

I see him as describing salvation as the initial renewal of the spirit (born again/from above), the salvation of the soul (sanctification, "growing in grace and knowledge") and then "finally, the redemption of our body" (when we are given immortality).

I imagaine others have other insight and can add to that understanding :)

:dsunny:

[Mickiel]

I want to stress that these are my views. Could I be wrong , oh please, of course I could be wrong. I been wrong about things in scripture for years. I have read the same scripture and held to my interpretation, then 25 years later find out I was wrong. So I just wanted to make that clear, I am not a theologian. I am like anyone here, searching for the truth.

tky for ur honesty m humility

Thank you brother.

When you share strong meat 3 things can happen; people can digest it and grow stronger , they can choke on it and get sick , or they can simply reject it. But when you share strong meat it's best to do it prayerfully , humility and honesty because some will dislike you because your doing it. You have to let them know that you too have sin and weaknesses that are genuine, and that you understand how things are , and your sharing something else that has made yourself stronger, and that you are giving from a point of view that is coming from a brother who cares and has really experienced what you are talking about. And even when you do that, some will still dispise you..

I believe in sharing so I don't mind the risks involved. And when God comes for me, that he will find me doing this. And hopefully be pleased. Peace.

[Mickiel]

Hitting back on being born again , as I have explained how  understand it, and listen when there are many conflicting views on a subject, we know it is a sensitive one. It is not a sin to disagree with your brother. It is a sin to hold malice because they disagree with you.

There is no doubt that Christ will transform our lowly bodies to be like his body , Phil. 3:21. I believe the bodies may be already made, 2Corinth.5:1, notice a body "Made" by God. In verse 3 we see an often repeated phrase in scripture , we will put on our new body, again suggesting it is already made, like a garment. Verse 2 comes right out and says we long to put on our new bodies like new clothing. I would not want my new body to be made from my old body. So it makes no difference what condition our old bodies are in, they can be cremated , it makes no difference.

So I believe the transformation , or new birth , or being born again will be some kind of transference in which our consciousness will be put into our new bodies. And there is ample scriptorial evidence for that.

[Mickiel]

Hitting back on being born again , as I have explained how i  understand it, and listen when there are many conflicting views on a subject, we know it is a sensitive one. It is not a sin to disagree with your brother. It is a sin to hold malice because they disagree with you.

There is no doubt that Christ will transform our lowly bodies to be like his body , Phil. 3:21. I believe the bodies may be already made, 2Corinth.5:1, notice a body "Made" by God. In verse 3 we see an often repeated phrase in scripture , we will put on our new body, again suggesting it is already made, like a garment. Verse 2 comes right out and says we long to put on our new bodies like new clothing. I would not want my new body to be made from my old body. So it makes no difference what condition our old bodies are in, they can be cremated , it makes no difference.

So I believe the transformation , or new birth , or being born again will be some kind of transference in which our consciousness will be put into our new bodies. And there is ample scriptorial evidence for that.

[Mickiel]

In 2Corinth.5:1-21 it speaks of if our earthly tent is destroyed , we have a building made by God's hands. Which we long to be "Clothed with", so the symbolism is not speaking of a building , but a body and heavenly appearal , we will not be found naked.vs4, we do not wish to be unclothed, but clothed. In vs 5 the holy spirit is given us as a deposit , which opens the account , guaranteeing what is to come, this is not speaking of being born again on earth then born again, again in heaven. Excuse the pun. In my view being born again is not a deposit, but the end result, fully clothed. Unless you are suggesting that being born again is a partial payment? I would disagree with that. That kind of belief , we may as well be like Nicodemus and ask are we to be born again here on earth, and what, be born again a third time in heaven?

[Mickiel]

In 2Corinth.5:1-21 it speaks of if our earthly tent is destroyed , we have a building made by God's hands. Which we long to be "Clothed with", so the symbolism is not speaking of a building , but a body and heavenly appearal , we will not be found naked.vs4, we do not wish to be unclothed, but clothed. In vs 5 the holy spirit is given us as a deposit , which opens the account , guaranteeing what is to come, this is not speaking of being born again on earth then born again, again in heaven. Excuse the pun. In my view being born again is not a deposit, but the end result, fully clothed. Unless you are suggesting that being born again is a partial payment? I would disagree with that. That kind of belief , we may as well be like Nicodemus and ask are we to be born again here on earth, and what, be born again a third time in heaven?

I mean it's not that I would mind being born again three times:; well let me see if its like that. Born from our parents, once , born again on earth when we receive the spirit, twice , born again in heaven when we are changed and transformed into new beings, that's three. That's kind of weird to me.

[Mickiel]

Just to show you how religions think and believe ;

Many Baptist believe that a person' is born again  , when they believe that Jesus died for their sin and rose again.

Many Protestants believe they are born again if they are gaining faith in Christ. And develop a personal relationship with God.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that being born again only applies to the 144,000.

Methodist believe in being born again in the flesh , as do Quakers.

Most churches believe in being born again in the flesh. It is by far the dominant belief., including Evangelical churches. Catholics believe it may take place at anytime in a person's life. Which is interesting. Are Catholics Christians? Yes, all Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics. Roman Catholics we're the first Christians, and many non Catholics don't like that.

[darryl]

I want to stress that these are my views. Could I be wrong , oh please, of course I could be wrong. I been wrong about things in scripture for years. I have read the same scripture and held to my interpretation, then 25 years later find out I was wrong. So I just wanted to make that clear, I am not a theologian. I am like anyone here, searching for the truth.

tky for ur honesty m humility

Thank you brother.

When you share strong meat 3 things can happen; people can digest it and grow stronger , they can choke on it and get sick , or they can simply reject it. But when you share strong meat it's best to do it prayerfully , humility and honesty because some will dislike you because your doing it. You have to let them know that you too have sin and weaknesses that are genuine, and that you understand how things are , and your sharing something else that has made yourself stronger, and that you are giving from a point of view that is coming from a brother who cares and has really experienced what you are talking about. And even when you do that, some will still dispise you..

I believe in sharing so I don't mind the risks involved. And when God comes for me, that he will find me doing this. And hopefully be pleased. Peace.

amen !

[Mickiel]

Take notice of this favorite phraseology the Bible is consistent in using and revealing. In Genesis 3:1, "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God "Had Made". God made the serpent, he was in the field , so God created Satan. In Psalms 118:24 ,"This is the day that the Lord God had Made. Palms 139 again fearfully and wonderfully Made!'" God intimately knows every human. Especially those called. Remember God said "Let us make man." Gen.1:26. In Prov.16:4 The Lord has made everything for his purpose.

Fearfully and wonderfully Made , the Hebrew meaning is with great reverence , heartbeat interest and respect. Wonderfully Made means set apart and unique.
I really believe that our new born again bodies. , God "Has made", already and we will put them on like garments.

[Mickiel]

Greetings ,thank you for sharing , it is most weird when you go places and are talking with the walls. Speaking for myself , I tend to reach for higher levels when others have speaks with me. You glean all kinds of gems. There are two bodies that we will have occupied by the end. So this can get confusing. In 1Corinth. 15:44. (NIV),  it is sown a natural body , it is "Raised a spiritual body". If There is a natural body , then it's also a spiritual body. So there are two bodies. The spirit body, and the physical body. Here one of them has to die to get the other.

First Corinth.15:35-49 describes how the ressurected bodies of believers will be different from our current bodies. Resurrected bodies will not be reanimated corpses . These corrupt bodies are like seeds that are sown  to bring to life the plant . These born again body's on earth, in some belief, they believe Its.
necessary . A believer with the holy spirit on earth , in comparison to our spirit bodies in heaven , the difference is as a star is from a fish.

[Mickiel]

In practical terms being born is the emergence of a new individual from the body of its parent. Born again while still being in the fleshly body , is within itself a radical belief. Worldly and lacking in understanding is what the religious world thinks of universalism. So when our doctrine matches one of theirs , a caution flag needs to go out. The born again doctrine seems to match some of our camp , that is major concern to me. Commonly Universalist beliefs are far differing than religion. This born again doctrine is actually putting some asleep in the accusition of truth. They are cutting their flow of knowledge from God. If a believer is choking on a doctrine , why would God continue to feed them other things.

This is a serious matter. Even the first fruits of God, whoever they will be,  in Romans 8:23 , "Those which have the first fruits of the spirit, will be uncomfortable  waiting ,"To be adopted , and the redemption of the body". In  vs  24-25 they are hoping for the redemption of a body that they cannot see. They cannot see the New Birth , but with patience hope for it. The other group of believers are not hoping for the redemption of their Body, because they  already have it.

In vs 24 hope that is "Seen" , is not hope. If you already have a gift of God, why hope for it? The desire for it is not the same. So I view it as taking the Kingdom by force, those who have the born again gift, will not give it up. Oh no!  Why hope for being born when you already are. This is a war in their minds.Rom. 8:23, the law of the flesh verses the law of the spirit. They are not waiting to be adopted , they already have . Rom.8 : 15 they have a spirit of adoption , no,no, they have a spirit that is already born again. With them it's an individual thing there can be no, vs.17, glorified together as a whole , no- they are already glorified or born again.

The whole creation groans and the true church will groan TOGETHER . In my view this means the church will all receive the spirit together, and be born again together. The liberty is being freed from the flesh. Removed completely from it ,  freed from the body of flesh. Being born again is a group thing , whole cities and whole countries will be born again together. The new birth is in mass, with the exception of the first fruits , which I may or may not have met. Those few I have known, are just like the Bible describes them., Foolish , weak , ignorant people  i may have met. 1 Corinth.1:22-31. The base people God will
call , or those on the bottom. I can't speak for others, but My life has been even worse than the anointed. God and Christ are protecting them, why? Not because they are spiritual giants , if anything and the scripture does revel , the called out anointed people are in bad shape , just like ancient Israel. That is why God protects  them and hide them in my view. And straighten out their heads , God bless their heart.

[Mickiel]

In Romans 6: 6-8 are several concepts we can consider. The message here is that our old man be crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed.For he that is dead is free from sin. If we be dead with Christ , we shall also live with him. By counting the old life as being sin and it must die , as Christ died, Jesus being raised  to never die again. And anyone who died, their whole life of sin died with them. And they shall never die again because they are born again.
Some believers do not want to taste death , they are afraid of dying. So they hope and pray to be among those who will not die. Their physical bodies will die anyway. Yet many hold on to the born again now belief system, they somehow believe  with it they shall never die.If you are afraid of death, you may as well be afraid of sleeping , they are nearly the same thing.

[Mickiel]

In Romans 6: 6-8 are several concepts we can consider. The message here is that our old man be crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed.For he that is dead is free from sin. If we be dead with Christ , we shall also live with him. By counting the old life as being sin and it must die , as Christ died, Jesus being raised  to never die again. And anyone who died, their whole life of sin died with them. And they shall never die again because they are born again.
Some believers do not want to taste death , they are afraid of dying. So they hope and pray to be among those who will not die. Their physical bodies will die anyway. Yet many hold on to the born again now belief system, they somehow believe  with it they shall never die.If you are afraid of death, you may as well be afraid of sleeping , they are nearly the same thing.

One way we can practice dying daily is to ask God could he teach you  how to sacrifice your sin on the cross of discipline and actually make a list of things you want to stop in your life  and make a dying dialog with God for you to daily deal with those sins, and go over your list each night and lift it up in the air and ask God to anoint your list and keep track of it daily. Work on each one a little here a little there until you have removed items of sin from your life. You partner with Christ to daily work on your sin and ask God to show you how to eliminate the sin in your life. Make you list smaller. To live is Christ and to die our sin is gain. Make your life an habitual way of. Loving you ❣️❣️ love and you dancing daily.

[darryl]

In Romans 6: 6-8 are several concepts we can consider. The message here is that our old man be crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed.For he that is dead is free from sin. If we be dead with Christ , we shall also live with him. By counting the old life as being sin and it must die , as Christ died, Jesus being raised  to never die again. And anyone who died, their whole life of sin died with them. And they shall never die again because they are born again.
Some believers do not want to taste death , they are afraid of dying. So they hope and pray to be among those who will not die. Their physical bodies will die anyway. Yet many hold on to the born again now belief system, they somehow believe  with it they shall never die.If you are afraid of death, you may as well be afraid of sleeping , they are nearly the same thing.

One way we can practice dying daily is to ask God could he teach you  how to sacrifice your sin on the cross of discipline and actually make a list of things you want to stop in your life  and make a dying dialog with God for you to daily deal with those sins, and go over your list each night and lift it up in the air and ask God to anoint your list and keep track of it daily. Work on each one a little here a little there until you have removed items of sin from your life. You partner with Christ to daily work on your sin and ask God to show you how to eliminate the sin in your life. Make you list smaller. To live is Christ and to die our sin is gain. Make your life an habitual way of. Loving you ❣️❣️ love and you dancing daily.

Amen !..tky brother !

[Mickiel]

Another way to help your walk with God is to go ahead and ask him to reveal your sin to you. Sin can stay hidden and yet like a cancer it can grow and germinate within you. And for whatever reason you just don't know or recognize it. I have a cancer myself, it's been in stage 4 for 7 years, and they don't rightly know when it began. So Some sins we cannot deal with them until a lot of damage is already done. And God may heal some of it, but not all of it. Interesting then. As in James 1:15 ,  after, see that, "After" your desire has conceived , it gives birth to sin.

My lung cancer was discovered already in stage 4, the stage before death. I wondered why I did not feel anything until it had conceived and grew within me. Some sin, especially the dangerous ones, remain hidden, undetected and unchallenged it will take root and grow like a weed that has becomed established, it will become harder and harder to pull out. It hides, it grows , it kills. So go to God and ask to be shown your hidden sins. Research your sin in God's word. " The unfolding of his words gives light." Psalm 119:130.

God sent the prophet Nathan to King David to reveal his sin to him. Nathan told him the story about a rich man who stole the only lamb a man owned. David burned with anger. In 2Sam.12:15, David said that man deserves to die. Then Nathan said , " You are the man!" It's not a sin to question God , you are asking for clarity. Other sins may be more clear and will find you out, Numbers 32:23

[darryl]

Another way to help your walk with God is to go ahead and ask him to reveal your sin to you. Sin can stay hidden and yet like a cancer it can grow and germinate within you. And for whatever reason you just don't know or recognize it. I have a cancer myself, it's been in stage 4 for 7 years, and they don't rightly know when it began. So Some sins we cannot deal with them until a lot of damage is already done. And God may heal some of it, but not all of it. Interesting then. As in James 1:15 ,  after, see that, "After" your desire has conceived , it gives birth to sin.

My lung cancer was discovered already in stage 4, the stage before death. I wondered why I did not feel anything until it had conceived and grew within me. Some sin, especially the dangerous ones, remain hidden, undetected and unchallenged it will take root and grow like a weed that has becomed established, it will become harder and harder to pull out. It hides, it grows , it kills. So go to God and ask to be shown your hidden sins. Research your sin in God's word. " The unfolding of his words gives light." Psalm 119:130.

7 years ?..wowww.well, u still here

God sent the prophet Nathan to King David to reveal his sin to him. Nathan told him the story about a rich man who stole the only lamb a man owned. David burned with anger. In 2Sam.12:15, David said that man deserves to die. Then Nathan said , " You are the man!" It's not a sin to question God , you are asking for clarity. Other sins may be more clear and will find you out, Numbers 32:23

[Mickiel]

Yes I am still alive, praise God. Twice they had to put my coffin back on the shelf. Learning and believing in God is so different when you think your dying soon. And then 4 years ago when God spoke to me after I was 😢 ng like a baby, tears flowing everywhere, "Oh God why are you killing me?" All he said to me after 62 years of saying nothing to me, "Your still alive", and your one of mine. I was like, is that it? That's all your going to say? But, he was right, I was still alive. And after all the death threats I am still alive for 7 years. I get embarrassed when I tell this story, I had no faith at all.