Just believing God, God considers you righteous

[Tony N]

Hello friends,
In Romans chapter 4, the apostle Paul, the apostle of the nations, told the nations about Abraham. He used Abraham as an example of faith in what God
said and God accounted it to him for righteousness.
Paul  said:
Romans 4:16-25  Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed,
not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all,  (17)  according as it is
written that, A father of many nations have I appointed you - facing which, he believes it of the God Who is vivifying the dead
and calling what is not as if it were -"  (18)  who, being beyond expectation, believes in expectation, for him to become the father
of many nations, according to that which has been declared, "Thus shall be your seed."  (19)  And, not being infirm in faith, he considers
his body, already deadened (being inherently somewhere about a hundred years) and the deadening of the matrix of Sarah,  (20)  yet the
promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith, giving glory to God,  (21)  being fully assured also, that, what He
has promised, He is able to do also."  (22)  Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness." 

Then Paul told us this:
(23)  Now it was not written because of him
only, that it is reckoned to him,  (24)  but because of us also, to whom it is about to be reckoned, who are believing on Him Who rouses Jesus our Lord
from among the dead."  (25)  Who was given up because of our offenses, and was roused because of our justifying."

Do you see it? If one just believes God that Christ died for our sins/offenses (see also 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), was entombed and roused the third day
then that one is righteous.

I have posted this on a "Christian" message board and all I get is grief. They don't believe it. They don't believe God concerning this.
They believe that Christ died as a good example to follow and if they somehow do Christ's commandments, they will be saved.

What do you think about this?

Of course we do believe "God will have all mankind to be saved" yet "each in his own order." But being declared righteous by God right now
and enjoying salvation right now is based on faith that what God has said is true.

How would you answer these so-called "Christians"?

[ed]

We are righteous in Christ in the moment.  It only takes faith.  We are not righteous if we are walking by the carnal nature.  It is a moment by moment thing.  God is omnipresent and with us always whether we sin or not, choosing to be in fellowship, walking in the light as he is the light, brings us to the place of knowing His righteousness in us.  It is a moment by moment relationship, walking with God.

[eaglesway]

I believe therfore I speak. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves lest any man should boast.

If you confess with your mouth Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Every knee shall bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father,

There is something there about the Lordship thing. Believing God raised Him from the dead and bowing the knee are both needed to "come in and sup". But I am not talking about "measuring up". I am simply saying one must bend the knee to receive the benefit of the reconciliation that has already been purchased for all.

And the world was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep, and God said, "Let there be light".

It is God speaking into our chaos that is devoid of the image of Christ that removes the veil of darkness from over the eyes of our hearts and begins the new creation. The first thing He speaks is Christ crucified(Savior) and raised(Lord), because it is the first thing He ever spoke and will also be the last- Alpha Omega Logos, Jesus- the word of the Father , Savior and Lord.

Blessed are those who hear. :o)

[rosered]

 

I agree with you Tony ,Its alot easier   to believe God , than convince man of anything ..lol   

I Believe ,  Just acknowledging   Jesus Christ   as the Son of God , whom is  revealed that by faith   as the gift of God  /Father  gave /Spiritual birthing  , being salvation though His son .

   No flesh and blood can or does anything  spiritual in nature  , Its a carnal  and a  natural born enemy  ..  being death  and "the  death state",   in my opinion


It is a truth,  the dead know nothing about God     and never will in that state   .



Some how   the flesh thinks   they can  create a god to serve  though those  empty imaginations     and make others     slave to it   also  and  do the same    , but this is work of their own hands   and powers that be in the earthly realm    and thoughts  of man 

    Still called earthly sensual and devilish    in nature  to this day .


   The gospel  being   the  "good news"   come   to prove this FACT    and have  a  relationship with God now  , the true and living God   by the Spirit and true worshippers     not having to wait an literally die , Like mankind  has held on to  for ages and ages     

  The book was  written as a  record     to prove that the dead indeed  did rise   in Christ     and still do , not by anything they have done but what GOD   has done for them,         all that was ever  required     was an   acknowledgment  of a sinful nature needing     to be forgiven and forgive    also         and thankfulness   and praise   to God    in faith  beliving

  Many have   entered   the HOLY CITY  and paradise   of God       already    , Loook at the  example of the cross  , the thief      that admitted  his sin   and   acknowledge Jesus as innocent     and remember him   ,    and that was the grace of God    in the full  impact       for anyone   

  Mankind makes it much  harder than it really is with God  and     always has   set up   those loads   of heavy burden  .

  with GOD    ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE   and prove

man is an impossible     little creature   stubborn to the end     of his days on earth ... 

  I am convinced the Last day    is the last day your mortal body   dwells in the earth       as human  [you  are never mortal again[last day in the earth]  like a womb

   But we are so much more   than just human   , God made us after all   in His image  and likeness   from the beginning   and so many  forget this along the way    they call life   , Jesus Christ is the proof of that      , He has done everything  possible    ,but  what you do with your measure of faith is [gift of God ]   

  making it   more[ increase    of God     though that faith in Jesus His Only one of the kind son   , that more would come though Him  or  less  [burying it in the earth ]

Is yours to  have  ,   all things are yours      , you   have inherited  eternal Life by believing    GODS WORD AS TRUE BY HIS OWN SPIRIT AND LIFE , HIS Own gift of grace to mankind    ...


   

[eaglesway]

We are righteous in Christ in the moment.  It only takes faith.  We are not righteous if we are walking by the carnal nature.  It is a moment by moment thing.  God is omnipresent and with us always whether we sin or not, choosing to be in fellowship, walking in the light as he is the light, brings us to the place of knowing His righteousness in us.  It is a moment by moment relationship, walking with God.

All of us in some measure walk by the carnal nature. As James said, "For we all stumble in many ways". As long as we believe and have bowed the knee, we are "the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" by faith because we can never walk well enough to be righteous.

Our righteousness is both imputed(received with initial belief) and imparted(growing as He grows in us), because we are "in Christ" and Christ is in us. That is not a moment to moment thing, it endures even through our failures because He is faithful to the covenant in His blood, the covenant in which we stand, not by our righteousness, but His.. If we are faithless he is faithful still. If we violate it in our hearts, we have a propitiation for our sins, Jesus Christ the righteous and if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

To me, confessing is just the same as bowing the knee. Just the acknowledgement that any righteousness in us is of Him. I believe love takes care of the rest, even tho we may struggle believing He really loves us as we are, warts and all.

[sheila]

 I believe it Tony....it is the  free gift of righteousness of faith not works.   Good posts on here.

[Tony N]

I agree with you Tony ,Its alot easier   to believe God , than convince man of anything ..lol   

I Believe ,  Just acknowledging   Jesus Christ   as the Son of God , whom is  revealed that by faith   as the gift of God  /Father  gave /Spiritual birthing  , being salvation though His son .

   No flesh and blood can or does anything  spiritual in nature  , Its a carnal  and a  natural born enemy  ..  being death  and "the  death state",   in my opinion


It is a truth,  the dead know nothing about God     and never will in that state   .



Some how   the flesh thinks   they can  create a god to serve  though those  empty imaginations     and make others     slave to it   also  and  do the same    , but this is work of their own hands   and powers that be in the earthly realm    and thoughts  of man 

    Still called earthly sensual and devilish    in nature  to this day .


   The gospel  being   the  "good news"   come   to prove this FACT    and have  a  relationship with God now  , the true and living God   by the Spirit and true worshippers     not having to wait an literally die , Like mankind  has held on to  for ages and ages     

  The book was  written as a  record     to prove that the dead indeed  did rise   in Christ     and still do , not by anything they have done but what GOD   has done for them,         all that was ever  required     was an   acknowledgment  of a sinful nature needing     to be forgiven and forgive    also         and thankfulness   and praise   to God    in faith  beliving

  Many have   entered   the HOLY CITY  and paradise   of God       already    , Loook at the  example of the cross  , the thief      that admitted  his sin   and   acknowledge Jesus as innocent     and remember him   ,    and that was the grace of God    in the full  impact       for anyone   

  Mankind makes it much  harder than it really is with God  and     always has   set up   those loads   of heavy burden  .

  with GOD    ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE   and prove

man is an impossible     little creature   stubborn to the end     of his days on earth ... 

  I am convinced the Last day    is the last day your mortal body   dwells in the earth       as human  [you  are never mortal again[last day in the earth]  like a womb

   But we are so much more   than just human   , God made us after all   in His image  and likeness   from the beginning   and so many  forget this along the way    they call life   , Jesus Christ is the proof of that      , He has done everything  possible    ,but  what you do with your measure of faith is [gift of God ]   

  making it   more[ increase    of God     though that faith in Jesus His Only one of the kind son   , that more would come though Him  or  less  [burying it in the earth ]

Is yours to  have  ,   all things are yours      , you   have inherited  eternal Life by believing    GODS WORD AS TRUE BY HIS OWN SPIRIT AND LIFE , HIS Own gift of grace to mankind    ...

Interesting that the thief on the cross only believed and, due to being nailed to the cross could not do anything to earn salvation.

[Tony N]

I believe it Tony....it is the  free gift of righteousness of faith not works.   Good posts on here.

Truly my Father has revealed this to you.  :dsunny:

[rosered]

 
JOHN  AMEN!    it is LOVE and Gods love that changes  everything , no man  have any   idea how loved they really are   by Gods love and standard


When we do see Him face to face  and all will    confess   ,      the undeniable    LOVE OF GOD will melt the coldest of hearts ,  every one will have this chance God is fair and good and love and mercy and faithful and true     



It just took one encounter     with Saul  to Paul as a example of this       and this was written fro our good    to increase  our  faith     

   the blindness  of Saul was penetrated by  by the LOVE OF GOD    SEEING JESUS  ,  and how he changed in a twinkling of a eye       

   He goes on to tell    of being in paradise  the 3rd  heaven and   having an out of the body  being mortal  /  spiritual  in nature   experience

and as one born out of due time     ,    for me this was an  near death experience    , being lifted up into   glory and saying    ,    the things He encountered   and the speaking was unlawful to utter   or speak of      ,    Paul was seeing the LOVE OF GOD      for all mankind and admitted     he was the worst of sinners        chief ,

being first  and foremost in his  witness   as testimony     to      betraying     Jesus Christ    in his former state of being   so carnal and animal like in nature


and went on into    many  revelations       about  the LORD JESUS CHRIST      and His love for us all    still   in that wretched state   .

   Jesus Christ opens the scriptures     in the book  for us   and    HIS OWN SPIRITUAL  Life breathes  Life in to us as food for thought and Paul  always expounds on Jesus    testimony  and witness      into understanding    what is is to be spiritual in nature     and how the carnal man    thwarts  this movement and quenches the Spirit    and life in us   , seeing the true enemy is   death and that is mankinds inheritance all the days of its life

and is the serpents food  , dust and scattering  to all the ends of the earth  till its  no more .


When you rise you are immortal and a being to be judged of God   and the WORD IS GOD    and will be accountable  for what you were given and what you held back   as a thief       all that ever come before Christ was a thief and robber     spirit 

  Robbing of His glory in the earth [mortal]    as it is in heaven  [spirit]   

and the new heavens and new earth are   HIS GLORY       AND HONOR AND PRAISE     and no form of evil  will ever   be apart of Him   and it is    a reality   not many on the earth ever     get to be partakers of .

   When you know  how blessed you are and  THE PURE  LOVE OF GOD FLOWS    THOUGH ALL   THINGS IN THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD   , its the only thing Paul   could boast about   or even cared too ! 

[Tony N]

We are righteous in Christ in the moment.  It only takes faith.  We are not righteous if we are walking by the carnal nature.  It is a moment by moment thing.  God is omnipresent and with us always whether we sin or not, choosing to be in fellowship, walking in the light as he is the light, brings us to the place of knowing His righteousness in us.  It is a moment by moment relationship, walking with God.

All of us in some measure walk by the carnal nature. As James said, "For we all stumble in many ways". As long as we believe and have bowed the knee, we are "the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" by faith because we can never walk well enough to be righteous.

Our righteousness is both imputed(received with initial belief) and imparted(growing as He grows in us), because we are "in Christ" and Christ is in us. That is not a moment to moment thing, it endures even through our failures because He is faithful to the covenant in His blood, the covenant in which we stand, not by our righteousness, but His.. If we are faithless he is faithful still. If we violate it in our hearts, we have a propitiation for our sins, Jesus Christ the righteous and if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

To me, confessing is just the same as bowing the knee. Just the acknowledgement that any righteousness in us is of Him. I believe love takes care of the rest, even tho we may struggle believing He really loves us as we are, warts and all.

God calls what is not as if it were (Romans 4). Abraham was not righteous in himself but God reckoned righteousness to him just because he believed God. The rest of Abraham's life he was righteous even if he did some unrighteous things. God looked at him as righteous.

It is the same for us. We, like Abraham only believe God that Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day. We are declared righteous by God even if we do many unrighteous things in this life. God sees Christ when He sees us since we are "in Christ" and "Christ is in us." God opened our eyes to believe, He gave us the faith to believe and He accounts us righteous. How great is that?  :banana:

[Lazarus Short]

Jesus the Christ was and is more than merely a good example, although He was THE good [best!] example.  He was, and is, the lamb which took, and takes, away the sin of the world.

[Patinak]

Sure is a lot of wisdom in this thread. :dsunny:

[rosered]

Interesting that the thief on the cross only believed and, due to being nailed to the cross could not do anything to earn salvation.

I do  not  think any mortal man  made of the dust of the  earth could ever  have a clue ,  dust and ashes     is the only offering   the earth can give ,

it being the fruit of its doings ..  and its not acceptable... GOD MADE A WAY        we are to accept     the gift of grace   , that we could live a new life

and Jesus come in the fulness of time  , this being in the middle [Cross ]   of the ages     proving that the left and right of Him is all in His own very

capable hands  none can pluck them out of His hand /power   

  from the darkness on into the Light   of the full DAY  SON   AND SHINE OF HIS GLORY

and powers       , the   hands means   of a power to do  ,   is  the    act   and the   right hand is the place of honor           

None can even begin to fathom the great LOVE OF GOD     in the mortal state  of being .

   Being born again   is the womb state of darkness   and hearing      , like a baby when developing in the womb , kicks and moves and has   life

and a cord   that is given  full support    of the   Mother   and WISDOM  is justified of her children      born again   spiritual beings 

    The travail of being born   is of great pain     and labour of love      to   make   the offspring of Gods   holy ones     to be revealed     

None  can know the time of birth    This is in the FATHERS  discretion  and choice   only    , I believe some are a process and some are birthed instantly     in the twinkling of an eye      , like the thief on the cross    ,      his day of death was actually his day of Life in the Spirit     


BORN AGAIN OF THE LIVING GOD        and serving  HIM in Spirit and truth   

Why do you think only these two things are required    to be immortal   for worship of the LIVING GOD ?

   The simplicity   in Jesus Christ    the most beautiful thing,  anyone can experience  and some it took a lifetime  of mortality/death  to reach that goal   of the higher 

existence   ..

       :HeartThrob:  GOD IS LOVE  and there is no other way  , but LOVE   to know HIM   this way .but by His own LOVE  , JESUS IS THAT WHEN YOU SEE JESUS YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHERS LOVE    for us all .  no other way to express it  , simply LOVE  as the purest form of being  connected .

[Tony N]

Jesus the Christ was and is more than merely a good example, although He was THE good [best!] example.  He was, and is, the lamb which took, and takes, away the sin of the world.

Amen to that! One day everyone will bask in the rays of God's smile.

[Seth]

In Romans 11 Paul says that they were grafted to the tree by faith, but that if they should become arrogant, they can be cut off.

Romans 11
18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Grafted on due to faith, cut off for arrogance. Behold the kindness and severity of the Lord. This is where the book of James comes in, where he says that Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness when he not only believed God but also acted in accordance with that belief. This has nothing to do with works of the Law but of the Hebrew concept if faith, which goes beyond simple belief, but into the idea of "faithfulness."

[eaglesway]

Abraham believed God. His belief was reflected in his actions. because He believed, He went forth from Ur. Because He believed He offered isaac upon the altar.

When he failed in faith, lying to a king out of fear, taking Hagar rather than wait for the word of God in Sarah- he was still reckoned as righteous, and delivered through his failures as well as his obedience. His standing never changed. He was still the friend of God, warts and all.

"Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." (2 Tim 2:19)

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.(2 Cor 3:16-18)

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.(2 Cor 4:3-6)

The removal of the veil, the circumscision of the heart, the opening of the eyes of the blind- it is the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. "Let there be light!" By faith we know that the worlds were framed by the word of God. By grace through faith we have received the word that transforms through introduction to the presence of God.

The Lord knows those who are His. Not all are. Not all who say they are, are.

BTW, altho Paul was changed in an instant, he had been kicking against the pricks for awhile. This means God had been pricking his heart for sometime. "It is hard for you to kick against the pricks"......"Who are you Lord?" :o)

[Seth]

The basic message I get from Romans 11 is that even if one thinks God considers him righteous no matter what he does, because of doctrinal belief in God, you might want to keep in mind that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. I don't believe that God considers rapists to be righteous just because they believe in God. The branches must remain on the tree and produce fruit or be pruned.

[Tom]

"In grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

[Seth]

Have you read the whole chapter?

[rosered]

 

  I am under the impression    , that the flesh is what wars against the Spirit   all the days its life   , and was never meant to BE   reconciled to God ...

that muddy old body bag and its  sinful state was   always going to try to    entice sin  nature  , its lusts are not   for proving anything but how very   contrary   and adversarial     it is against the LOVE OF GOD        :sigh:



  Paul Romans 7 and 8     Said in His mind he does serve the LIVING GOD   and it would be though Jesus Christ      that He would have this victory .   But sensed  this contrariness   of two natures warring in his own self      ..   


I believe we fail to pray at first  , it  is contrary  in nature to call out to God       for help , it is always sinning and failing     
its not human nature to   rely on    anything but instinct        and animal at that   , tearing apart      anything thing that gets in the way of its own    WAY of thinking and course of actions , pleasuring its own self   at the sake of the innocent  others    or rising up as  guilty being tempted also to act     in a  beastly manner   by carnal instinct 
   this is the warring and  unfruitful   works of darkness   in     ignorance to the ways of God     who is LIGHT AND LOVE


This is why the Spirit intercedes for us in prayer    first , because we don't have a clue how to ask God for anything   , So very carnal    , I remember  this plainly  at first how hard it was to even pray   to God .

   
Only the Spiritof Christ  knows what the  SPIRIT of God   is doing .  Romans 8


...26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness;

for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words

; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.


For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

   we cannot forget where we came from and out of         such a darkness      and  ignorance to the ways of God     and how hard that was to face   and go though


Abraham was chosen of God for this old time example of how   faith works in us  and still does to this day   , if we are willing to  accept it   by faith .

Many cannot in their current''  condition ''  it  is like  being outside and looking into something  so obscure     and strange , and makes no sense to the carnal mind  of mankind the enemy of the Spirit of Gods divine Love and nature    in  man from the beginning  of eating of that tree of knowledge of good and evil       

, in Adam all are dead to the Living God and    in Christ the Life giving Spirit  all are raised  up  to a higher education and beginning of understanding      by the Light of His coming to them    on a personal     level    , none of us  can do this  act  or work of God on our own    ,

  we can only accept it     and many in the times of old were   like beasts that even so much as a beast come to the  mountain it would be stoned     [ death was its   sentence]     nothing unholy or profane    in that condition  could enter Gods kingdom

  Abraham was   the prime example of JESUS CHRIST  , Though not knowing this name yet was given the LIVING   SPIRIT IN HIM TO WALK WITH GOD    and be called a friend   of God

before the time   , like another one  out of due time          God of the Living   Abraham Issac and Jacob     these  names given to men that represent     the gift of grace   before God  gave all    the chance to   enter Gods Kingdom though the SON   and the cross    where death would no longer reign  in the lives of mankind      but   would be      though JESUS CHRIST   reigning   having the'' keys   the understanding'' to    unlock the book and  unfold the   new and holy  kingdom     that   the graves and death could no longer     hold mankind too    ...       

  Times is only a human concept that has  NO BEARING     TO GOD    whatsoever  :HeartThrob:

HIS PATIENCE      IS PROOF OF THAT ..
   That none should perish         , we have  , those have  something    now  to look forward to , just as those did in their  day when grace was given    even Noah  , Daniel and   Job     the ancient one ,      that did not come till death   came and took us out of the world     ,  We know      death was destroyed at the CROSS   and many     do not even understand this  still   ,  When Jesus Cried out''  it is finished     and gave His Spirit to God to be poured out upon all flesh    !!''

ALL WILL  BOAST IN THE LORD  OUR GOD ONE DAY ! one beautiful   DAY  :dsunny:     :HeartThrob:   GODS LOVE PREVAILS     ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL .
   












 

     

[sheila]

 well..if the receiving of the promised seed depended on the works of Abraham..we would have Ishmael...and no Isaac.

   God in fact refused this 'work' of the flesh of Abraham through Hagar.  The promise came through God's miraculous

  regenerative powers of conception given unto Sarah..whose very womb was good as dead.

   the arrogance in this matter was exhibited by Hagar unto Sarah..cause she give birth after the natural in the flesh

  and not according to the promised 'word of God" while Sarah appeared to have bore no fruit . Sarah humbly

was willing to accept this 'seed' of Abraham as her own..but God had something much better in mind for Sarah

   He exalted the humble..and cast out the arrogant.

   problem is...it was a long time coming....for the fruit...why so long..that they both reckoned their bodies as

good as dead.  SO THE FRUIT IS MIRACULOUS  and not just Abraham's work..but an actual work of God!

  so, it is hard to judge by appearance[I have fruit/you do not and become arrogant in it]

   

[Seth]

Right, Isaac became a symbol of those who received the Holy Spirit, and therefore the fruit that they produced is not by their own, as contrasted against Ishmael who symbolizes those who are pursuing righteousness under the Law. But those symbolized by Isaac do produce good fruit by the water that comes from the earth into the Vine and through to the branches. As Paul said, if we have received the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. And so when Jesus compares himself to a Vine in John 15, he is encouraging the same. There is a difference between branches that stay on the Vine for more PRUNING, and branches that whither and die and are cut off the tree. So back in Romans 11, I believe Paul is reinforcing that by saying that though they were grafted to the tree by faith, they better check their arrogance against the natural branches or God will cut them off too. How far will imputed righteousness carry us if we become cut off the tree for arrogance?

[ed]

1 John
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I love every part of that.  Yes we all have sin.......we fall short.

If we are cleansed from ALL SIN, we are righteous, in the moment.

When we sin we get a conscious reminder, if we have the desire to continue to walk in the light.

The issue is always sin.  What do you say sin is?

[ed]

Can you tell when you are righteous and when you are not?

[Seth]

I believe sin is missing the mark of love. That's why the Law is hung upon love and why sin is lawlessness.