John Chp.3

[GerWat]

How do we explain away John Chp. 3?  Must be born again, unbeliever judged already, wrath of God doth remains upon him. Is it just an unfortunate storm of mistranslation?

[darryl]

nothing here bout hopelessly condemned to eternal torment...'wrath' is a misleading English word denoting fury/ rage...the actual Greek = 'settled opposition'...all will ultimately be 'born again'....yes, unbelievers are judged according to their unbelief but again, nothing about 'eternal damnation' in John Chp.3

[Dandelion]

Well, I am going to look up the verses you are referring to, but, off the top of my head:

Yes, we must be born again.....does it say how or where?

Yes, we are judged, but when we accept Jesus, the verdict is that we are saved by His death on the cross.

And, the wrath of God is on us, but it is not going to override His love and forgiveness for us.

Just off the top of my head.

I will copy and re-do tomorrow, with the verses.

Going to a wedding today.

D.

[marie glen]

nothing here bout hopelessly condemned to eternal torment...'wrath' is a misleading English word denoting fury/ rage...the actual Greek = 'settled opposition'...all will ultimately be 'born again'....yes, unbelievers are judged according to their unbelief but again, nothing about 'eternal damnation' in John Chp.3

Exactly.. (imo) Sin brings all to ruin. ...But not 'for ever'! Without God's Great Plan of Salvation.. we all would perish. End of story.

But, because He built the remedy in from the foundation/"blueprint" - some are saved during this brief life.. and will serve during the time when all the rest are saved, sometime after this brief life.
     :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

Must be born again I.M.O is the reference to the spiritual birth- different to the flesh.
No flesh will be in the eternal coming presence before God - ALL needs to be spiritual.
Paul refers to the differences specifically in Galations 5.
Throughout his teachings in Romans there is the struggle we currently have, but then states the spirit is greater and thanks be to Jesus Who has given us this change as we receive the holy spirit of new life, which is different to the current spirit we have. 1 Cor 15 elaborates the different bodies, and glories.
John talks about MUST be born again to perceive these concepts- ergo the flesh cannot grasp that at all.
God's provision, not self.

[jugghead]

What I see in  being "born again", the original meaning of the word translated as "again" means "from above", so I see it as being "born from above",

And also in Matthew 15, Christ compares "being blind" to "a lack of understanding", so also "to see" means "to understand"

So I view that verse as: "Except a man be born from above, he cannot understand the kingdom of God",

which is just another way to say what Paul said; "being spiritually discerned" (1 Cor 2:14)

[Ross]

What I see in  being "born again", the original meaning of the word translated as "again" means "from above", so I see it as being "born from above",

And also in Matthew 15, Christ compares "being blind" to "a lack of understanding", so also "to see" means "to understand"

So I view that verse as: "Except a man be born from above, he cannot understand the kingdom of God",

Born from above would seem to be why the people received the spirit- they were already alive, hence the spirit of life, then received the Holy Spirit - ergo a different spirit. The points Paul makes to the Corinthians in chapter 15 seems to be about those differences.